Why Obama is wrong when he says business needs the government

[saveliberty]

The bonds were purchased by a private bank, ie Bank of America. They were issued by the State of California. That still constitutes public financing and incurring public debt.

But the fact remains that Obama was not wrong. It was a government project that worked well. The fact that the government intervened with Strauss' design, made for a better, safer, and more cost effective process. Your article is still spin and revisionism, and ignores too many facts to be taken seriously.

They were not issued by the state.

They were backed by the bank that was wholly owned by a single person.

If you want to argue that Obama is right I suggest you stick to actual facts, not your fanciful interpretation of them.

No, the facts show you are wrong. The bonds were issued by the State of California, and purchased by Bank of America. That still constitutes a public project, and a debt incurred by the public. Can you show any factual errors in the following?

Golden Gate Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finance
The Golden Gate Bridge and Highway District, authorized by an act of the California Legislature, was incorporated in 1928 as the official entity to design, construct, and finance the Golden Gate Bridge.[11] However, after the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the District was unable to raise the construction funds, so it lobbied for a $30 million bond measure. The bonds were approved in November 1930,[14] by votes in the counties affected by the bridge.[24] The construction budget at the time of approval was $27 million. However, the District was unable to sell the bonds until 1932, when Amadeo Giannini, the founder of San Francisco–based Bank of America, agreed on behalf of his bank to buy the entire issue in order to help the local economy.[7]

Looks like government had to count on the business owners and other monied private folks to pay for the bridge. Who needed who again?

 

[PratchettFan]

They were not issued by the state.

They were backed by the bank that was wholly owned by a single person.

If you want to argue that Obama is right I suggest you stick to actual facts, not your fanciful interpretation of them.

No, the facts show you are wrong. The bonds were issued by the State of California, and purchased by Bank of America. That still constitutes a public project, and a debt incurred by the public. Can you show any factual errors in the following?

Golden Gate Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finance
The Golden Gate Bridge and Highway District, authorized by an act of the California Legislature, was incorporated in 1928 as the official entity to design, construct, and finance the Golden Gate Bridge.[11] However, after the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the District was unable to raise the construction funds, so it lobbied for a $30 million bond measure. The bonds were approved in November 1930,[14] by votes in the counties affected by the bridge.[24] The construction budget at the time of approval was $27 million. However, the District was unable to sell the bonds until 1932, when Amadeo Giannini, the founder of San Francisco–based Bank of America, agreed on behalf of his bank to buy the entire issue in order to help the local economy.[7]

Looks like government had to count on the business owners and other monied private folks to pay for the bridge. Who needed who again?

It looks like they needed each other.

 

[saveliberty]

No, the facts show you are wrong. The bonds were issued by the State of California, and purchased by Bank of America. That still constitutes a public project, and a debt incurred by the public. Can you show any factual errors in the following?

Golden Gate Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like government had to count on the business owners and other monied private folks to pay for the bridge. Who needed who again?

It looks like they needed each other.

Probably closer to the truth. Although, I find it interesting that government thought it more necessary than private enterprise did. In Michigan, we have a governor bent on building a bridge between Detroit and Canada. A private individual wants to build one himself and is getting the government run around.

 

[PratchettFan]

Looks like government had to count on the business owners and other monied private folks to pay for the bridge. Who needed who again?

It looks like they needed each other.

Probably closer to the truth. Although, I find it interesting that government thought it more necessary than private enterprise did. In Michigan, we have a governor bent on building a bridge between Detroit and Canada. A private individual wants to build one himself and is getting the government run around.

I am not surprised. But I would not assume the government is being irrational as a result. What kind of bridge on what kind of roadway. You're crossing an international border, what is there to insure only approved people come across? Who is going to use it and what kind of construction is appropriate for that use? It isn't a simple matter of wanting to build something. People do not exist in a vacuum.

Let us say you have bought a house in a nice neighborhood. Quiet, close to schools, shopping, etc. Your neighbor decides he could make a lot of money by turning his house into a strip joint. Loud music playing 24 hours a day, the street packed with cars from patrons, a nice big picture window so your kinds can see the dancers. Don't you think it would nice if there were some organization you could turn to for help when your neighbor tells you to bugger off, private property is private property?

 

[rightwinger]

He didn't say business needs the Government as much as business needs what America provides

Those who are benefitting from what America provides are expected to contribute

 

[OODA_Loop]

Symbiotic.

Tax revenues begat common, enumerated needs and infastructure required to advance and protect private property interests under a set of rules.

 

[PratchettFan]

Symbiotic.

Tax revenues begat common, enumerated needs and infastructure required to advance and protect private property interests under a set of rules.

An intelligent, thoughtful and accurate response which did not come from me. I don't think I approve of that. Still......

 

[saveliberty]

He didn't say business needs the Government as much as business needs what America provides

Those who are benefitting from what America provides are expected to contribute

Too bad that isn't what Obama said. I could agree to that RW.

 

[regent]

If there were no rules regulating society, business could not exist. Business, however, wants no rules or regulations on business; the rules cut into business profits. Business then gives billions of its profits to politicans to pass laws to eliminate the rules.

 

[saveliberty]

Symbiotic.

Tax revenues begat common, enumerated needs and infastructure required to advance and protect private property interests under a set of rules.

An intelligent, thoughtful and accurate response which did not come from me. I don't think I approve of that. Still......

Parasitic might have been closer...

 

[saveliberty]

If there were no rules regulating society, business could not exist. Business, however, wants no rules or regulations on business; the rules cut into business profits. Business then gives billions of its profits to politicans to pass laws to eliminate the rules.

That argument falls apart rather quickly, as without government, competitors can enter without fear of using the same name, manufacturing techniques and so on.

 

[BlindBoo]

I don't owe the government anything. They owe me protection of my rights and an opportunity to pursue life, liberty and happiness. The fruits of that opportunity are mine and mine alone.

But in reality you do, unless you're not a citizen. Ever heard of the Selective Service, or the draft? Thousands of Americans have been forced into the armed service and gave their lives for the government.

That's called involuntary servitude, which is expressly prohibited by the 13th Amendment.

How about taxes? Are you saying you don't pay taxes to any government entity?

The fact that government collects money from me at gunpoint doesn't prove I owe it to government.

A Thirteenth Amendment challenge to conscription for military service was summarily rejected.

The gun proves they have the power to enforce the taxes you owe.

 

[BlindBoo]

History is full of examples of the government taking on projects that are huge because they believe they wouldn't happen otherwise. History is also full of examples of projects that businesses took on because they were needed. My favorite example of the latter is one of Obama's talking points when he claims that the government is indispensable.

Turns out that the government actually did everything it could to stop the Golden Gate bridge, and that, ultimately, it was built because of one man.



www.thomas-purcell.com: Obama's Golden Gate Sized Error

Want to know what else got built without the government?

First off, the bridge was funded by government issued bonds. Second, the original estimates don't make much sense for several reasons. First, the original Strauss design called for a double cantilever system. But it was around the time when there were some major improvements in metallurgy that allowed for a suspension system. The government forced Strauss to change his design. Good thing, since I doubt that a less forgiving cantilever bridge would have stood up as well to the areas huge earthquakes. Think about those collapsed highways in Frisco about 25 years ago. As for union/nonunion, it was the municipal governments that forced Strauss to use local labor.

Another interesting fact is that one of the key opponents to the bridge came from the Southern Pacific Railroad, since it had a monopoly on the ferry service.

So there's plenty of historically inaccurate bullshit in that article you chose to post. Don't make Strauss out to be a hero, since his design wasn't even used in the construction. He had to go out and hire engineers with expertise in suspension systems. Yes, the Navy had a reasonable concern about how it might encumber shipping, at least with the original plan. But nice find in getting that revisionism, since most of the right wing here will never do an ounce of research.

First, the bonds were backed by a private bank, not the government.

It is interesting that Southern Pacific had government enforced monopoly on ferries, but I don't see how that actually proves me wrong.

I am not making anyone out to be a hero, I am pointing out that Obama is wrong.

On November 4, 1930, voters within the Golden Gate Bridge and Highway District’s six member counties (San Francisco, Marin, Sonoma, Del Norte, and portions of Napa and Mendocino) went to the polls on the question of whether to put up their homes, their farms and their business properties as collateral for a $35 million bond issue to finance the construction of the Golden Gate Bridge (Bridge).

Bank of America purchased the first block of bonds - $3 million of the District bonds at 96.23 cents and an additional $3 million on Marh 1, 1933.

*

Bank of America purchased the remaining 29 million in April 1933.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I will give you a clue QW, google the beef industry and government involvement in regards to quality control.
Then google what a ASI inspector does for the FAA.

Here is the first link on Google for beef industry quality control.

Beef Quality Assurance - Home

The USDA does grade beef, but that has nothing to do with quality control.

Quality Grades:

• Prime grade
  
  is produced from young, well-fed beef cattle. It has abundant marbling and is generally sold in restaurants and hotels. Prime roasts and steaks are excellent for dry-heat cooking (broiling, roasting, or grilling).
• Choice grade
  
  is high quality, but has less marbling than Prime. Choice roasts and steaks from the loin and rib will be very tender, juicy, and flavorful and are, like Prime, suited to dry-heat cooking. Many of the less tender cuts, such as those from the rump, round, and blade chuck, can also be cooked with dry heat if not overcooked. Such cuts will be most tender if "braised" — roasted, or simmered with a small amount of liquid in a tightly covered pan.
• Select grade
  
  is very uniform in quality and normally leaner than the higher grades. It is fairly tender, but, because it has less marbling, it may lack some of the juiciness and flavor of the higher grades. Only the tender cuts (loin, rib, sirloin) should be cooked with dry heat. Other cuts should be marinated before cooking or braised to obtain maximum tenderness and flavor.
• Standard and Commercial grades are frequently sold as ungraded or as "store brand" meat.
• Utility, Cutter, and Canner grades are seldom, if ever, sold at retail but are used instead to make ground beef and processed products.

I already posted what an ASI does to make my point that they do not actually inspect aircraft, want to try again?

And grading beef has everything to do with quality control. Lol Grading beef has to do with grading the quality of the beef.
And I don't care where you worked, my brother is a cattle rancher and my mom was a lobbyist for the cattle ranchers in the 70s. Your point?

The poor Quantessa.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I will give you a clue QW, google the beef industry and government involvement in regards to quality control.
Then google what a ASI inspector does for the FAA.

Here is the first link on Google for beef industry quality control.

Beef Quality Assurance - Home

The USDA does grade beef, but that has nothing to do with quality control.
...
I already posted what an ASI does to make my point that they do not actually inspect aircraft, want to try again?

And grading beef has everything to do with quality control. Lol Grading beef has to do with grading the quality of the beef.

And I don't care where you worked, my brother is a cattle rancher and my mom was a lobbyist for the cattle ranchers in the 70s. Your point?

On boy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh! And PS the Statue of Liberty was built by a French Funded artist. The beginning stages of the US part of the project was funded by the government.
So get statement that the Statue of Liberty was built without the government is a lie. It was actually funded by two different governments. Pulitzer did put on a campaign to fund the project when the US ran out of money, but your statement is still false.
Like I asked before. Do you pull this stuff out of your ass?

No, it was made by a French artist, it was built by funds raised by private donations in the US.

Unfortunately, a lack of funds in the United States delayed the building of the pedestal. Fund-raising efforts stalled until Joseph Pulitzer, publisher of “The World” newspaper and noted for the Pulitzer Prize, decided to use his newspaper to push Americans to donate. The Statue was finally re-assembled on her new pedestal and dedicated on October 28, 1886.

The Statue of Liberty -- History and Key Facts

Who paid the the French artist?the French government. And the project was finished by private funds, started by government funds.

The government contributed a couple of thousand from its art fund, it was not even enough to finish the pedestal. Your claim was that the government built the pedestal. You were wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yeah, way to forget to post the first part of the article where it stated the Government was already involved in improving roads. Lol

A $10,000 budget to improve roads all over the nation, I bet that when a long way. Want to bet he gave most of it to his buddies?

Seriously, do you read the stuff you link to? Do you really think that I don't simply because I read faster than you do?

You do realize 10,000 was a lot more money back then. And reread the original statement. The roads were already being built, was the point.

The defense budget in 1893 was $239 million, $10,000 was chump change.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You know nothing about the food industry or the FAA. Lol
Do you just pull this shit out of your ass?

It literally takes hundreds of man hours to inspect each airplane that is flown. it takes specialized training to inspect each different part of the plane. Do you have any idea how large the FAA would have to be if they insisted on personally inspecting every commercial airplane? They hire people that check to make sure that the maintenance facilities are up to date, and that the personal are trained properly and up to date in regulations. They are actually authorized to inspect the plane, but a mechanic that specializes in the brakes isn't going to know enough about the engines to see a problem, and a guy who can tear down an engine won't know if the avionics is working properly.

Aviation Safety Inspectors (ASIs) : Aviation safety inspectors apply a broad knowledge of the aviation industry, the general principles of aviation safety, and the Federal laws, regulations, and policies affecting aviation. In addition, they apply intensive technical knowledge and skill in the operation and maintenance of aircraft. Below is a brief description of the duties and responsibilities of an Inspector and the specific qualification requirements:


Airworthiness (Avionics/Maintenance):
Inspectors in this specialty apply knowledge and skills typically acquired as repairman of aircraft, aircraft parts, or avionics equipment to develop and administer regulations and safety standards pertaining to the airworthiness and maintenance of aircraft and related equipment. They engage primarily in the following types of assignments: (a) Evaluating mechanics and repair facilities for initial certification and continuing adequacy; (b) evaluating the mechanic‘s training program; (c) inspecting aircraft and related equipment for airworthiness; and (d) evaluating the maintenance aspects of programs of air carriers and similar commercial operations. The evaluations may include the adequacy of maintenance facilities, equipment and procedures; the competence of employees; the adequacy of the program or schedule for periodic maintenance and overhauls; and the airworthiness of the aircraft. Aviation Safety Inspectors (Airworthiness) may perform a variety of other inspections, investigations and advisory duties. However the primary requirement for positions in this specialty is knowledge and skill pertaining to the maintenance and airworthiness of aircraft.

Aviation Safety Inspectors

As for food service, I worked in that area, and I know the shit that most restaurants don't want you to know about. Watch Kitchen Nightmares or Hell's Kitchens sometime and explain to me why Ramsey gets away with touching half the stuff before he sends it out to his customers.

And you stated the FAA only purpose is require certain inspections etc. when reality they inspect facilities and some commercial airplanes. Your link stated that.

That is their purpose, they do not have the manpower to inspect all commercial airplanes. They occasionally walk through a cursory inspection of a plane with the commercial facility, but they essentially exist by trusting that inspection to the owners. They would need to send a team of at least 20 men to spend a week on each plane they tried to inspect, their budget is not that large. They can't even instal obsolete radar systems in airports. The fact that the law allows them to do so does not change the fact that they can't. The law also allows the FDA to inspect every single hamburger served in the US, they have never once shown up at any restaurant I have ever been in to make sure the hamburgers were safe.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I will give you a clue QW, google the beef industry and government involvement in regards to quality control.
Then google what a ASI inspector does for the FAA.

Here is the first link on Google for beef industry quality control.

Beef Quality Assurance - Home

The USDA does grade beef, but that has nothing to do with quality control.

Quality Grades:

• Prime grade
  
  is produced from young, well-fed beef cattle. It has abundant marbling and is generally sold in restaurants and hotels. Prime roasts and steaks are excellent for dry-heat cooking (broiling, roasting, or grilling).
• Choice grade
  
  is high quality, but has less marbling than Prime. Choice roasts and steaks from the loin and rib will be very tender, juicy, and flavorful and are, like Prime, suited to dry-heat cooking. Many of the less tender cuts, such as those from the rump, round, and blade chuck, can also be cooked with dry heat if not overcooked. Such cuts will be most tender if "braised" — roasted, or simmered with a small amount of liquid in a tightly covered pan.
• Select grade
  
  is very uniform in quality and normally leaner than the higher grades. It is fairly tender, but, because it has less marbling, it may lack some of the juiciness and flavor of the higher grades. Only the tender cuts (loin, rib, sirloin) should be cooked with dry heat. Other cuts should be marinated before cooking or braised to obtain maximum tenderness and flavor.
• Standard and Commercial grades are frequently sold as ungraded or as "store brand" meat.
• Utility, Cutter, and Canner grades are seldom, if ever, sold at retail but are used instead to make ground beef and processed products.

I already posted what an ASI does to make my point that they do not actually inspect aircraft, want to try again?

And grading beef has everything to do with quality control. Lol Grading beef has to do with grading the quality of the beef.
And I don't care where you worked, my brother is a cattle rancher and my mom was a lobbyist for the cattle ranchers in the 70s. Your point?

No, it is a small part of quality control. The FDA does not watch over every step of the process of a cow being raised from a calf to be slaughtered for meat. Nor does it watch over every step of the process of that meat being cut, and then cooked and served. If they did their would be an FDA inspector in every restaurant, butcher shop, grocery store, and home in the US.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The bonds were purchased by a private bank, ie Bank of America. They were issued by the State of California. That still constitutes public financing and incurring public debt.

But the fact remains that Obama was not wrong. It was a government project that worked well. The fact that the government intervened with Strauss' design, made for a better, safer, and more cost effective process. Your article is still spin and revisionism, and ignores too many facts to be taken seriously.

They were not issued by the state.

They were backed by the bank that was wholly owned by a single person.

If you want to argue that Obama is right I suggest you stick to actual facts, not your fanciful interpretation of them.

No, the facts show you are wrong. The bonds were issued by the State of California, and purchased by Bank of America. That still constitutes a public project, and a debt incurred by the public. Can you show any factual errors in the following?

Golden Gate Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finance
The Golden Gate Bridge and Highway District, authorized by an act of the California Legislature, was incorporated in 1928 as the official entity to design, construct, and finance the Golden Gate Bridge.[11] However, after the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the District was unable to raise the construction funds, so it lobbied for a $30 million bond measure. The bonds were approved in November 1930,[14] by votes in the counties affected by the bridge.[24] The construction budget at the time of approval was $27 million. However, the District was unable to sell the bonds until 1932, when Amadeo Giannini, the founder of San Francisco–based Bank of America, agreed on behalf of his bank to buy the entire issue in order to help the local economy.[7]

Can you even read?

The bonds were approved in November 1930,[14] by votes in the counties affected by the bridge.

The bonds were not issued by the state, end of argument.