Why Obama is wrong when he says business needs the government

[Quantum Windbag]

I will give you a clue QW, google the beef industry and government involvement in regards to quality control.
Then google what a ASI inspector does for the FAA.

Here is the first link on Google for beef industry quality control.

Beef Quality Assurance - Home

The USDA does grade beef, but that has nothing to do with quality control.

Quality Grades:

• Prime grade
  
  is produced from young, well-fed beef cattle. It has abundant marbling and is generally sold in restaurants and hotels. Prime roasts and steaks are excellent for dry-heat cooking (broiling, roasting, or grilling).
• Choice grade
  
  is high quality, but has less marbling than Prime. Choice roasts and steaks from the loin and rib will be very tender, juicy, and flavorful and are, like Prime, suited to dry-heat cooking. Many of the less tender cuts, such as those from the rump, round, and blade chuck, can also be cooked with dry heat if not overcooked. Such cuts will be most tender if "braised" — roasted, or simmered with a small amount of liquid in a tightly covered pan.
• Select grade
  
  is very uniform in quality and normally leaner than the higher grades. It is fairly tender, but, because it has less marbling, it may lack some of the juiciness and flavor of the higher grades. Only the tender cuts (loin, rib, sirloin) should be cooked with dry heat. Other cuts should be marinated before cooking or braised to obtain maximum tenderness and flavor.
• Standard and Commercial grades are frequently sold as ungraded or as "store brand" meat.
• Utility, Cutter, and Canner grades are seldom, if ever, sold at retail but are used instead to make ground beef and processed products.

I already posted what an ASI does to make my point that they do not actually inspect aircraft, want to try again?

"FAA inspectors take their duties very seriously. In addition to inspecting maintenance logs and safety records, these inspectors also physically examine aircraft to ensure that they are safe to fly. FAA inspectors may decide to ground aircraft until safety issues are addressed, and the agency is able to fine violators to ensure that they are penalized for lapses in safety. FAA agents can also recognize people with a particularly good record in the industry, ranging from especially safe pilots to skilled ground crew, through the FAA Wings Program."
What is the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)? - mobile wiseGEEK

And from what you posted.
(c) inspecting aircraft and related equipment for airworthiness; and (d)
What you said:
" ASI does to make my point that they do not actually inspect aircraft, want to try again"

Are you purposely lying to prove your point?

That makes me feel so safe, FAA inspectors take their job seriously. I thought they spent their entire day getting drunk on the public dime.

Every pilot I know does a walk through and visual check of his aircraft before takeoff. This checklist takes anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour, and that is for nothing larger than a business jet. At best an FAA inspector runs through a checklist when he does an inspection. He does not personally X-ray the entire fuselage looking for micro-fractures, he does not personally tear down each engine to make sure there is no excessive wear. There is no fucking way on God's green Earth he can do every single check necessary to certify a single 747 as airworthy, it would take him years.

Think about what you are saying for once in your pathetic life.

 

[8537]

A $10,000 budget to improve roads all over the nation, I bet that when a long way. Want to bet he gave most of it to his buddies?

Seriously, do you read the stuff you link to? Do you really think that I don't simply because I read faster than you do?

You do realize 10,000 was a lot more money back then. And reread the original statement. The roads were already being built, was the point.

The defense budget in 1893 was $239 million.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, off the top of my head, water and sewer services, roads, fire, police, courts, defense, international relations, border control, health inspections, quality control for food, inspections of commericial vehicles and operators, air traffic control, inspections of commericial airplanes. Would you like more?

Excuse me?

First, nothing you have listed there is something the government knows best, some of them are not even things the government actually does. The ones that the government actually does do are things the government has declared are part of its monopoly of force.

Second, the government, the public sector, often calls in experts from the private sector to get advice on the best way to deliver those services because the public sector is run by a bunch of lawyers, not by people that actually understand the issues behind any of the services they have decided are exclusively in their purview,

I want to know what issues the public sector knows better than the private sector, not what services the public sector provides. Since you haven't named a single one I would definitely say I want more.

You are going to have to define what you mean by "issues".

Issues are issues. Jones made the absurd claim that the public sector knows some things better than the private sector knows them, I challenged him to provide examples. You chose to interpret my challenge as showing what services the public sector provides that the private sector does not. You provided no evidence that they even do a better job than the private sector at providing those services, you just assume they do.

a. A point or matter of discussion, debate, or dispute
b. A matter of public concern
c. A misgiving, objection, or complain
d. The essential point; crux
e. A culminating point leading to a decision

Let us take just one of your examples, water and sewer services. LEaving aside the fact that plenty of people in this country get along without government supplied water or sewer services, the basic issues are how to supply clean water and removes soiled water from a home or apartment. (Before someone pops in and scolds me for not understanding the issues here, I will admit I don't. Just trying to make a point.) Can you honestly tell me you don't think anyone in the private sector is at least as knowledgeable about the methods and concerns involved in providing water and sewage as the people in the public sector?

 

[8537]

Let us take just one of your examples, water and sewer services. LEaving aside the fact that plenty of people in this country get along without government supplied water or sewer services, the basic issues are how to supply clean water and removes soiled water from a home or apartment. (Before someone pops in and scolds me for not understanding the issues here, I will admit I don't. Just trying to make a point.) Can you honestly tell me you don't think anyone in the private sector is at least as knowledgeable about the methods and concerns involved in providing water and sewage as the people in the public sector?

The problem isn't that the private sector isn't knowledgeable enough to understand methods for water and wastewater. Clearly they are - they built Boeing 757, for Pete's Sake! The problem is that such systems are natural monopolies in almost every case - so the government either contracts with a single private provider and regulates that provider, or the government manages the service themselves.

 

[saveliberty]

Seems like private firms build waste water treatment plants. So, yes QW, the private sector is quite knowledgeable.

 

[PratchettFan]

Excuse me?

First, nothing you have listed there is something the government knows best, some of them are not even things the government actually does. The ones that the government actually does do are things the government has declared are part of its monopoly of force.

Second, the government, the public sector, often calls in experts from the private sector to get advice on the best way to deliver those services because the public sector is run by a bunch of lawyers, not by people that actually understand the issues behind any of the services they have decided are exclusively in their purview,

I want to know what issues the public sector knows better than the private sector, not what services the public sector provides. Since you haven't named a single one I would definitely say I want more.

You are going to have to define what you mean by "issues".

Issues are issues. Jones made the absurd claim that the public sector knows some things better than the private sector knows them, I challenged him to provide examples. You chose to interpret my challenge as showing what services the public sector provides that the private sector does not. You provided no evidence that they even do a better job than the private sector at providing those services, you just assume they do.

a. A point or matter of discussion, debate, or dispute
b. A matter of public concern
c. A misgiving, objection, or complain
d. The essential point; crux
e. A culminating point leading to a decision

Let us take just one of your examples, water and sewer services. LEaving aside the fact that plenty of people in this country get along without government supplied water or sewer services, the basic issues are how to supply clean water and removes soiled water from a home or apartment. (Before someone pops in and scolds me for not understanding the issues here, I will admit I don't. Just trying to make a point.) Can you honestly tell me you don't think anyone in the private sector is at least as knowledgeable about the methods and concerns involved in providing water and sewage as the people in the public sector?

Knowledge is not the issue. Capability is. You have a house that sits 20 miles from the waste treatment plant. How does your waste get from point a to point b? Are you going to build your own pipe? Should we have 50 different companies involved in buidling the pipes for us with no coordination? Your pipe doesn't connect with your neighbor's pipe and no one knows where anything is buried? What if your neighbor decides they will just dump their waste in their front yard, right next to where your children play.

I live in the country and have a well and a septic tank. But even I would be drastically affected if the town I am next to didn't have control over its waste treatment. There are some things which are just too important to leave to the market place to resolve.

 

[Truthmatters]

build your business in the middle of a forrest and see how well it goes

 

[M14 Shooter]

Business -- more accurately, commerce - pre-exists government, and some commerce exists in opposition to it.

Thus, it is impossible to argue that commerce -requires- government.

 

[saveliberty]

build your business in the middle of a forrest and see how well it goes

Great if you're a logger!*

*assuming you meant forest.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If there were no rules regulating society, business could not exist. Business, however, wants no rules or regulations on business; the rules cut into business profits. Business then gives billions of its profits to politicans to pass laws to eliminate the rules.

The drug trade exists despite the fact that the only regulation of it is an attempt to totally eradicate it. Not only that, it manages to deliver a product that doesn't kill everyone who uses it, and it is actually less expensive and easier to get than many regulated drugs.

You seriously need to examine just how stupid you sound when you spout idiotic sound bites.

 

[Luissa]

No, it was made by a French artist, it was built by funds raised by private donations in the US.

The Statue of Liberty -- History and Key Facts

Who paid the the French artist?the French government. And the project was finished by private funds, started by government funds.

The government contributed a couple of thousand from its art fund, it was not even enough to finish the pedestal. Your claim was that the government built the pedestal. You were wrong.

No, that wasn't my claim. Your claim was the government had no involvement in building it. I simply pointed out two different government help fund it, I also pointed out that Pulitzer started a campaign to raise money to finish the project.
Pulitzer being a private citizen. Reading everything in a post isnt a strong point for you, is it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

First off, the bridge was funded by government issued bonds. Second, the original estimates don't make much sense for several reasons. First, the original Strauss design called for a double cantilever system. But it was around the time when there were some major improvements in metallurgy that allowed for a suspension system. The government forced Strauss to change his design. Good thing, since I doubt that a less forgiving cantilever bridge would have stood up as well to the areas huge earthquakes. Think about those collapsed highways in Frisco about 25 years ago. As for union/nonunion, it was the municipal governments that forced Strauss to use local labor.

Another interesting fact is that one of the key opponents to the bridge came from the Southern Pacific Railroad, since it had a monopoly on the ferry service.

So there's plenty of historically inaccurate bullshit in that article you chose to post. Don't make Strauss out to be a hero, since his design wasn't even used in the construction. He had to go out and hire engineers with expertise in suspension systems. Yes, the Navy had a reasonable concern about how it might encumber shipping, at least with the original plan. But nice find in getting that revisionism, since most of the right wing here will never do an ounce of research.

First, the bonds were backed by a private bank, not the government.

It is interesting that Southern Pacific had government enforced monopoly on ferries, but I don't see how that actually proves me wrong.

I am not making anyone out to be a hero, I am pointing out that Obama is wrong.

On November 4, 1930, voters within the Golden Gate Bridge and Highway District’s six member counties (San Francisco, Marin, Sonoma, Del Norte, and portions of Napa and Mendocino) went to the polls on the question of whether to put up their homes, their farms and their business properties as collateral for a $35 million bond issue to finance the construction of the Golden Gate Bridge (Bridge).

Bank of America purchased the first block of bonds - $3 million of the District bonds at 96.23 cents and an additional $3 million on Marh 1, 1933.

*

Bank of America purchased the remaining 29 million in April 1933.

Yes, a single individual threw all the assets of his business, which happened to be a bank, behind the project.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let us take just one of your examples, water and sewer services. LEaving aside the fact that plenty of people in this country get along without government supplied water or sewer services, the basic issues are how to supply clean water and removes soiled water from a home or apartment. (Before someone pops in and scolds me for not understanding the issues here, I will admit I don't. Just trying to make a point.) Can you honestly tell me you don't think anyone in the private sector is at least as knowledgeable about the methods and concerns involved in providing water and sewage as the people in the public sector?

The problem isn't that the private sector isn't knowledgeable enough to understand methods for water and wastewater. Clearly they are - they built Boeing 757, for Pete's Sake! The problem is that such systems are natural monopolies in almost every case - so the government either contracts with a single private provider and regulates that provider, or the government manages the service themselves.

You agree with me that the public sector is not more knowledgeable about some issues than the government, yet you still want to argue something. The reason utilities are monopolies is that government declared it, not because there is no way to actually compete.

 

[Luissa]

Here is the first link on Google for beef industry quality control.

Beef Quality Assurance - Home

The USDA does grade beef, but that has nothing to do with quality control.

I already posted what an ASI does to make my point that they do not actually inspect aircraft, want to try again?

"FAA inspectors take their duties very seriously. In addition to inspecting maintenance logs and safety records, these inspectors also physically examine aircraft to ensure that they are safe to fly. FAA inspectors may decide to ground aircraft until safety issues are addressed, and the agency is able to fine violators to ensure that they are penalized for lapses in safety. FAA agents can also recognize people with a particularly good record in the industry, ranging from especially safe pilots to skilled ground crew, through the FAA Wings Program."
What is the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)? - mobile wiseGEEK

And from what you posted.
(c) inspecting aircraft and related equipment for airworthiness; and (d)
What you said:
" ASI does to make my point that they do not actually inspect aircraft, want to try again"

Are you purposely lying to prove your point?

That makes me feel so safe, FAA inspectors take their job seriously. I thought they spent their entire day getting drunk on the public dime.

Every pilot I know does a walk through and visual check of his aircraft before takeoff. This checklist takes anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour, and that is for nothing larger than a business jet. At best an FAA inspector runs through a checklist when he does an inspection. He does not personally X-ray the entire fuselage looking for micro-fractures, he does not personally tear down each engine to make sure there is no excessive wear. There is no fucking way on God's green Earth he can do every single check necessary to certify a single 747 as airworthy, it would take him years.

Think about what you are saying for once in your pathetic life.

My pathetic life?

And think about what you are saying. You said they did not inspect planes, but posted information that proved what you said was wrong. It's not my problem you have no clue what you are talking about, and keep posting your opinion as fact.
Other than needing to read everything in posts of mine you decide to respond to, you also need to read everything you post.
My pathetic life, ha! Wow! You are a hack.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are going to have to define what you mean by "issues".

Issues are issues. Jones made the absurd claim that the public sector knows some things better than the private sector knows them, I challenged him to provide examples. You chose to interpret my challenge as showing what services the public sector provides that the private sector does not. You provided no evidence that they even do a better job than the private sector at providing those services, you just assume they do.

a. A point or matter of discussion, debate, or dispute
b. A matter of public concern
c. A misgiving, objection, or complain
d. The essential point; crux
e. A culminating point leading to a decision

Let us take just one of your examples, water and sewer services. LEaving aside the fact that plenty of people in this country get along without government supplied water or sewer services, the basic issues are how to supply clean water and removes soiled water from a home or apartment. (Before someone pops in and scolds me for not understanding the issues here, I will admit I don't. Just trying to make a point.) Can you honestly tell me you don't think anyone in the private sector is at least as knowledgeable about the methods and concerns involved in providing water and sewage as the people in the public sector?

Knowledge is not the issue. Capability is. You have a house that sits 20 miles from the waste treatment plant. How does your waste get from point a to point b? Are you going to build your own pipe? Should we have 50 different companies involved in buidling the pipes for us with no coordination? Your pipe doesn't connect with your neighbor's pipe and no one knows where anything is buried? What if your neighbor decides they will just dump their waste in their front yard, right next to where your children play.

I live in the country and have a well and a septic tank. But even I would be drastically affected if the town I am next to didn't have control over its waste treatment. There are some things which are just too important to leave to the market place to resolve.

Excuse me, but knowledge is the issue when someone claims that the public sector is more knowledgeable. Since you never claimed that, and actually agree with me, there is no further need for me to prove you wrong.

 

[Luissa]

I am sorry I am still laughing over your post. Instead of admitting you made a false statement, you have to throw in something about my life. Lol
Oh! The force is strong in you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

build your business in the middle of a forrest and see how well it goes

This guy built his in the middle of a swamp.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmG28-7uqj4]Ax Men - Swampman Shelby - YouTube[/ame]

You can't tell it by looking at him, but I saw an episode where he made over $50,000 in a few weeks.

 

[Katzndogz]

Business doesn't need government to begin or exist. Business supports government.

 

[Luissa]

Issues are issues. Jones made the absurd claim that the public sector knows some things better than the private sector knows them, I challenged him to provide examples. You chose to interpret my challenge as showing what services the public sector provides that the private sector does not. You provided no evidence that they even do a better job than the private sector at providing those services, you just assume they do.

Let us take just one of your examples, water and sewer services. LEaving aside the fact that plenty of people in this country get along without government supplied water or sewer services, the basic issues are how to supply clean water and removes soiled water from a home or apartment. (Before someone pops in and scolds me for not understanding the issues here, I will admit I don't. Just trying to make a point.) Can you honestly tell me you don't think anyone in the private sector is at least as knowledgeable about the methods and concerns involved in providing water and sewage as the people in the public sector?

Knowledge is not the issue. Capability is. You have a house that sits 20 miles from the waste treatment plant. How does your waste get from point a to point b? Are you going to build your own pipe? Should we have 50 different companies involved in buidling the pipes for us with no coordination? Your pipe doesn't connect with your neighbor's pipe and no one knows where anything is buried? What if your neighbor decides they will just dump their waste in their front yard, right next to where your children play.

I live in the country and have a well and a septic tank. But even I would be drastically affected if the town I am next to didn't have control over its waste treatment. There are some things which are just too important to leave to the market place to resolve.

Excuse me, but knowledge is the issue when someone claims that the public sector is more knowledgeable. Since you never claimed that, and actually agree with me, there is no further need for me to prove you wrong.

You haven't proven anyone was wrong in this thread, you haven't even proven Obama is wrong. I would quit now, you look foolish at this point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who paid the the French artist?the French government. And the project was finished by private funds, started by government funds.

The government contributed a couple of thousand from its art fund, it was not even enough to finish the pedestal. Your claim was that the government built the pedestal. You were wrong.

No, that wasn't my claim. Your claim was the government had no involvement in building it. I simply pointed out two different government help fund it, I also pointed out that Pulitzer started a campaign to raise money to finish the project.
Pulitzer being a private citizen. Reading everything in a post isnt a strong point for you, is it?

How much did the government contribute?

How much did schoolkids raise?