Why Obama is wrong when he says business needs the government

[M14 Shooter]

Setting the bar low, aren't you?

Irrelevant to the issue at hand. His assertion is disproven by the examples I cited - feel free to argue otherwise.

There are benefits to having a government. Our Founding Fathers understood that when the Articles of Confederation failed. Business is mentioned in the constitution as something worthy of protection.

If your paradigm for business success involves no government, I submit that those businesses will fail and wreck more havoc on society as a result of those failures than businesses enjoying the protection and regulation provided by the rule of government.

If you want Anarchy in the business community, use Somalia as your paradigm of opportunity.

Blah blah blah.
My point, whch you failed to address, remains sound.

 

[Luissa]

And to get back to the OP, my brother and mother prove that Obama is right.
They both own private businesses and have benefited from the government. My mother along with being a private business owner, is also a public employee. So if you want proof that a public paid employee can be number one in their field, my mother is proof of that. LOL My mother is regarded by her peers in her field as one of the best if not the best at what she does. And the public project that she is publicly paid to take care of is rated third in the nation. This "project" has been owned by the city since the 70s.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not just a matter of whether there are or aren't some private sector concerns are capable of providing services. The problem is also the profit motive too often outweighs public safety. It's funny that there have been, over the years, that bottled water is more of a problem than municipal water (btw, much bottled water with exotic names, is really just filtered municipal water). Why? Because government regulates and tests municipal supply for various toxins. Recall the events a few years ago when Perriere was found to have unacceptable levels of radon and arsenic.

Think of the outbreaks of e-coli of recent years. The greatest ones come from agricultural products, which are less regulated than meats. Do you really want to apply that to meats? How about medicines? How many times have manufacturers fudged the results to FDA? I'd much rather have drugs developed using public clinical trials.

Now lets talk air safety. I can't see how a competitive system of controlling our air space, with well known and understood regulations, could be safer. Think of the majority of aircraft accidents. A major incident is a rarity. Planes are regularly inspected. All this while, private airports and air craft seem to have accidents every week.

Nope, some things, especially where safety is an issue, must be done in public interest and not for a profit motive.

The issue here is not services, or safety, or anything else, it is the fact that one particular pompous ass made an absurd statement that I challenged. Unless you want to argue that the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector stop bring this up.

 

[Nosmo King]

Irrelevant to the issue at hand. His assertion is disproven by the examples I cited - feel free to argue otherwise.

There are benefits to having a government. Our Founding Fathers understood that when the Articles of Confederation failed. Business is mentioned in the constitution as something worthy of protection.

If your paradigm for business success involves no government, I submit that those businesses will fail and wreck more havoc on society as a result of those failures than businesses enjoying the protection and regulation provided by the rule of government.

If you want Anarchy in the business community, use Somalia as your paradigm of opportunity.

Blah blah blah.
My point, whch you failed to address, remains sound.

Of course commerce will still happen in the absence of government. We can call swapping your peanut butter sandwich for my bag of Fritos in the elementary school lunch room as commerce. But lacking the protection of law, the regulatory over site and trade treaties, commerce will remain small scale and not provide the opportunities business in civilized societies provide.


Now, if you want to hold semantics as a macro political position....

 

[M14 Shooter]

And to get back to the OP, my brother and mother prove that Obama is right.

They do not, because He is not.

Govermnent may, at times, facilitate business, but is in no way necessary for its existence, proven by the fact that busniess not only pre-exists government but sometimes also runs in opposition to it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

There are benefits to having a government. Our Founding Fathers understood that when the Articles of Confederation failed. Business is mentioned in the constitution as something worthy of protection.

If your paradigm for business success involves no government, I submit that those businesses will fail and wreck more havoc on society as a result of those failures than businesses enjoying the protection and regulation provided by the rule of government.

If you want Anarchy in the business community, use Somalia as your paradigm of opportunity.

Blah blah blah.
My point, whch you failed to address, remains sound.

Of course commerce will still happen in the absence of government.

Thank you for agreeing that my premise is sound. Have a wonderful day.

 

[Luissa]

Government built Las Vegas.

It took this place, out in the middle of the desert where no one wanted to go and decided to build a city there. So it put in roads, sewers, added police and fire departments. Is that how it happened?

The government is the reason Las Vegas started to gain attention. So what is your point, actually?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I also trying to figure out why you felt the need to call my life pathetic. How about you answer that one for me.

It has to be pathetic if you think an inspector that is responsible for an entire airport has time to personally check every plane that flies into or out of it.

Where did I state an inspectors inspects every plane that flies in and out? I only proved your statement that they do not inspect airplanes at all was false. When I did this I didn't make a claim your life is pathetic. But it makes me wonder why you would say something like. Do you often judge people's lives by what is said on a message board?

You did not prove anything. In order to certify a 747 as airworthy you have to check the everything from the ailerons to the GPS system. It is impossible for a single person to do that, so they concentrate on making sure the process that certifies an airplane as airworthy meets, or exceeds, minimum standards. Until you can show that the FAA actually does every inspection necessary to keep a plane in the air all you have accomplished is proving you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Luissa]

And to get back to the OP, my brother and mother prove that Obama is right.

They do not, because He is not.

Govermnent may, at times, facilitate business, but is in no way necessary for its existence, proven by the fact that busniess not only pre-exists government but sometimes also runs in opposition to it.

If it wasn't for the federal government my brother wouldnt be as successful as he is today, without the city government my mom wouldn't even do what she did today.
Re read what he said, then get back to me.

 

[saveliberty]

I also trying to figure out why you felt the need to call my life pathetic. How about you answer that one for me.

I fail to see how helping folks in your vocation constitutes a pathetic life.

Wish you would shape up and be more of a conservative though.

 

[Katzndogz]

Government built Las Vegas.

It took this place, out in the middle of the desert where no one wanted to go and decided to build a city there. So it put in roads, sewers, added police and fire departments. Is that how it happened?

The government is the reason Las Vegas started to gain attention. So what is your point, actually?

You are several decades out of synch.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Government built Las Vegas.

It took this place, out in the middle of the desert where no one wanted to go and decided to build a city there. So it put in roads, sewers, added police and fire departments. Is that how it happened?

The government is the reason Las Vegas started to gain attention. So what is your point, actually?

1: Business arrived
2: Government followed
Says all that needs to be said.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Government built Las Vegas.

It took this place, out in the middle of the desert where no one wanted to go and decided to build a city there. So it put in roads, sewers, added police and fire departments. Is that how it happened?

Nope, but Hoover Dam made it possible.

 

[PratchettFan]

If there were no rules regulating society, business could not exist.

False. Your local drug dealer and gun runner - all of whom conduct their business in direct oppoition to the rules regulating society - disprove your notion.

Really? They don't use money?

 

[M14 Shooter]

And to get back to the OP, my brother and mother prove that Obama is right.

They do not, because He is not.

Govermnent may, at times, facilitate business, but is in no way necessary for its existence, proven by the fact that busniess not only pre-exists government but sometimes also runs in opposition to it.

If it wasn't for the federal government my brother wouldnt be as successful as he is today, without the city government my mom wouldn't even do what she did today.
Re read what he said, then get back to me.

My statement stands. Feel free to show it unsound.

The government's role in your brother's success does not in any way prove that government is necessary for business to exiist.

 

[Luissa]

Government built Las Vegas.

It took this place, out in the middle of the desert where no one wanted to go and decided to build a city there. So it put in roads, sewers, added police and fire departments. Is that how it happened?

The government is the reason Las Vegas started to gain attention. So what is your point, actually?

You are several decades out of synch.

Are you referring to the railroad and the mines? Yeah, I wouldn't call that the kind of attention what would have created the Las Vegas of today, but nice try.

It wasn't until the Hoover Dam was completed and the Manhattan project that it started to gain real attention, you know when it started to attract the people who started large casinos etc. But nice try.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If there were no rules regulating society, business could not exist.

False. Your local drug dealer and gun runner - all of whom conduct their business in direct oppoition to the rules regulating society - disprove your notion.

Really? They don't use money?

They don't -have- to.

 

[PratchettFan]

Business -- more accurately, commerce - pre-exists government, and some commerce exists in opposition to it.

Thus, it is impossible to argue that commerce -requires- government.

No. Government pre-existed commerce.

 

[PratchettFan]

Issues are issues. Jones made the absurd claim that the public sector knows some things better than the private sector knows them, I challenged him to provide examples. You chose to interpret my challenge as showing what services the public sector provides that the private sector does not. You provided no evidence that they even do a better job than the private sector at providing those services, you just assume they do.

Let us take just one of your examples, water and sewer services. LEaving aside the fact that plenty of people in this country get along without government supplied water or sewer services, the basic issues are how to supply clean water and removes soiled water from a home or apartment. (Before someone pops in and scolds me for not understanding the issues here, I will admit I don't. Just trying to make a point.) Can you honestly tell me you don't think anyone in the private sector is at least as knowledgeable about the methods and concerns involved in providing water and sewage as the people in the public sector?

Knowledge is not the issue. Capability is. You have a house that sits 20 miles from the waste treatment plant. How does your waste get from point a to point b? Are you going to build your own pipe? Should we have 50 different companies involved in buidling the pipes for us with no coordination? Your pipe doesn't connect with your neighbor's pipe and no one knows where anything is buried? What if your neighbor decides they will just dump their waste in their front yard, right next to where your children play.

I live in the country and have a well and a septic tank. But even I would be drastically affected if the town I am next to didn't have control over its waste treatment. There are some things which are just too important to leave to the market place to resolve.

Excuse me, but knowledge is the issue when someone claims that the public sector is more knowledgeable. Since you never claimed that, and actually agree with me, there is no further need for me to prove you wrong.

Well, if you think just knowing how to lay a pipe without actually being able to lay a pipe will stave off cholera, then I guess you don't.

 

[Luissa]

Government built Las Vegas.

It took this place, out in the middle of the desert where no one wanted to go and decided to build a city there. So it put in roads, sewers, added police and fire departments. Is that how it happened?

The government is the reason Las Vegas started to gain attention. So what is your point, actually?

1: Business arrived
2: Government followed
Says all that needs to be said.

Business did arrive in Las Vegas before the government did, then government did arrive, and bigger business and more people arrived. Your point? Las Vegas would not be what it was today without the Hoover Dam and or the Manhattan Project. So in reality, business arrived, the government then arrived, and bigger and better businesses followed.