Why Obama is wrong when he says business needs the government

[Dick Tuck]

It's not just a matter of whether there are or aren't some private sector concerns are capable of providing services. The problem is also the profit motive too often outweighs public safety. It's funny that there have been, over the years, that bottled water is more of a problem than municipal water (btw, much bottled water with exotic names, is really just filtered municipal water). Why? Because government regulates and tests municipal supply for various toxins. Recall the events a few years ago when Perriere was found to have unacceptable levels of radon and arsenic.

Think of the outbreaks of e-coli of recent years. The greatest ones come from agricultural products, which are less regulated than meats. Do you really want to apply that to meats? How about medicines? How many times have manufacturers fudged the results to FDA? I'd much rather have drugs developed using public clinical trials.

Now lets talk air safety. I can't see how a competitive system of controlling our air space, with well known and understood regulations, could be safer. Think of the majority of aircraft accidents. A major incident is a rarity. Planes are regularly inspected. All this while, private airports and air craft seem to have accidents every week.

Nope, some things, especially where safety is an issue, must be done in public interest and not for a profit motive.

The issue here is not services, or safety, or anything else, it is the fact that one particular pompous ass made an absurd statement that I challenged. Unless you want to argue that the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector stop bring this up.

The issue is your claim is false, in regards to Obama. I can't think of anything, other than a barter agrarian society, that could exist without government, infrastructure, an educated workforce, security, etc.. Your claim that one must be better than the other is a question with a logical flaw. You create a false dilemma. The public and private sector are in fact, symbiotic. If anyone is being pompous, it's your myopic logic.

BTW, I responded to a statement made by you, regarding the private sector. If you don't want to move away from your topic, don't start it.

 

[PratchettFan]

build your business in the middle of a forrest and see how well it goes

This guy built his in the middle of a swamp.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmG28-7uqj4]Ax Men - Swampman Shelby - YouTube[/ame]

You can't tell it by looking at him, but I saw an episode where he made over $50,000 in a few weeks.

Without the government built roads, how did he get his boat?

 

[PratchettFan]

False. Your local drug dealer and gun runner - all of whom conduct their business in direct oppoition to the rules regulating society - disprove your notion.

Really? They don't use money?

They don't -have- to.

I am agog. How do they that?

 

[Luissa]

Why do right wingers like to ignore certain events like the Lewis and Clark Expedition etc?
The fact that Hoover Dam and the Manhattan Project made Vegas what it is today?
That without programs like NASA we would be behind in aviation etc?

Without public funding many things that we take for granted would not be what they are. It's like they hate government so much they have to ignore the facts. LOL

 

[Rocko]

Why Obama is RIGHT when he says business needs the government

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/228521-what-good-is-government.html

It's government that is the parasite. This is not a chicken before the egg situation. The government lives off of buisness, not the other way around.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Knowledge is not the issue. Capability is. You have a house that sits 20 miles from the waste treatment plant. How does your waste get from point a to point b? Are you going to build your own pipe? Should we have 50 different companies involved in buidling the pipes for us with no coordination? Your pipe doesn't connect with your neighbor's pipe and no one knows where anything is buried? What if your neighbor decides they will just dump their waste in their front yard, right next to where your children play.

I live in the country and have a well and a septic tank. But even I would be drastically affected if the town I am next to didn't have control over its waste treatment. There are some things which are just too important to leave to the market place to resolve.

Excuse me, but knowledge is the issue when someone claims that the public sector is more knowledgeable. Since you never claimed that, and actually agree with me, there is no further need for me to prove you wrong.

Well, if you think just knowing how to lay a pipe without actually being able to lay a pipe will stave off cholera, then I guess you don't.

Do you think the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector, yes or no? If yes I will jump in and debate you all day long. If no, and all you want to do is argue about the tole of government in delivering those things, I suggest you read more of the Discworld books. He is pretty good at showing how absurd government bureaucracies are.

 

[regent]

If there were no rules regulating society, business could not exist.

False. Your local drug dealer and gun runner - all of whom conduct their business in direct oppoition to the rules regulating society - disprove your notion.

Do the gun runners and drug dealers have rules and regulations regarding their transactions? Usually if a business is illegal and wants to last it will eventually make rules and regulations sort of creating their own governments. The ultimate of that kind of business is probably found in our own prohibition era, Capone and the South side was one such government and the Bugs on the North side. Each had a government with rules and regulations--and stiff penaltys.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not just a matter of whether there are or aren't some private sector concerns are capable of providing services. The problem is also the profit motive too often outweighs public safety. It's funny that there have been, over the years, that bottled water is more of a problem than municipal water (btw, much bottled water with exotic names, is really just filtered municipal water). Why? Because government regulates and tests municipal supply for various toxins. Recall the events a few years ago when Perriere was found to have unacceptable levels of radon and arsenic.

Think of the outbreaks of e-coli of recent years. The greatest ones come from agricultural products, which are less regulated than meats. Do you really want to apply that to meats? How about medicines? How many times have manufacturers fudged the results to FDA? I'd much rather have drugs developed using public clinical trials.

Now lets talk air safety. I can't see how a competitive system of controlling our air space, with well known and understood regulations, could be safer. Think of the majority of aircraft accidents. A major incident is a rarity. Planes are regularly inspected. All this while, private airports and air craft seem to have accidents every week.

Nope, some things, especially where safety is an issue, must be done in public interest and not for a profit motive.

The issue here is not services, or safety, or anything else, it is the fact that one particular pompous ass made an absurd statement that I challenged. Unless you want to argue that the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector stop bring this up.

The issue is your claim is false, in regards to Obama. I can't think of anything, other than a barter agrarian society, that could exist without government, infrastructure, an educated workforce, security, etc.. Your claim that one must be better than the other is a question with a logical flaw. You create a false dilemma. The public and private sector are in fact, symbiotic. If anyone is being pompous, it's your myopic logic.

BTW, I responded to a statement made by you, regarding the private sector. If you don't want to move away from your topic, don't start it.

Do you think the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector? Once you answer that, we can go back to discussing why Obama is wrong.

 

[Rocko]

Why do right wingers like to ignore certain events like the Lewis and Clark Expedition etc?
The fact that Hoover Dam and the Manhattan Project made Vegas what it is today?
That without programs like NASA we would be behind in aviation etc?

Without public funding many things that we take for granted would not be what they are. It's like they hate government so much they have to ignore the facts. LOL

All those examples are great, but pales in comparison to the many achievements of the private sector.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNHeTwoy5vI

 

[Quantum Windbag]

build your business in the middle of a forrest and see how well it goes

This guy built his in the middle of a swamp.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmG28-7uqj4"]Ax Men - Swampman Shelby - YouTube[/ame]

You can't tell it by looking at him, but I saw an episode where he made over $50,000 in a few weeks.

Without the government built roads, how did he get his boat?

From non government built ships?

The guy lives in Florida, not Oklahoma.

 

[saveliberty]

Any guesses on whether there will be more regulation of the alligator hunting industry?

 

[Luissa]

Why do right wingers like to ignore certain events like the Lewis and Clark Expedition etc?
The fact that Hoover Dam and the Manhattan Project made Vegas what it is today?
That without programs like NASA we would be behind in aviation etc?

Without public funding many things that we take for granted would not be what they are. It's like they hate government so much they have to ignore the facts. LOL

All those examples are great, but pales in comparison to the many achievements of the private sector.

NASA pales in comparison to achievements by the private sector? How about Lewis and Clark?
And without the Hoover Dam there probably wouldn't be a lot of private sector in Las Vegas, for one they would not have a whole lot of power to operate their private sector business.

What about Grand Coulee Dam?

It is the largest electric power-producing facility in the United States[3] and one of the largest concrete structures in the world.[1]

Through a series of upgrades and the installation of pump-generators, the dam now supplies four power stations with an installed capacity of 6,809 MW. As the center-piece of the Columbia Basin Project, the dam's reservoir supplies water for the irrigation of 671,000 acres (2,700 km2).

The dam powered aluminum smelters in Longview and Vancouver, Washington, Boeing factories in Seattle and Vancouver, and Portland's shipyards. In 1943, its electricity was also used for plutonium production in Richland, Washington, at the Hanford Site, which was part of the top-secret Manhattan Project.[

Grand Coulee Dam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PratchettFan]

This guy built his in the middle of a swamp.

Ax Men - Swampman Shelby - YouTube

You can't tell it by looking at him, but I saw an episode where he made over $50,000 in a few weeks.

Without the government built roads, how did he get his boat?

From non government built ships?

The guy lives in Florida, not Oklahoma.

You're joking, right? Please tell me you aren't being serious.

 

[Nosmo King]

Blah blah blah.
My point, whch you failed to address, remains sound.

Of course commerce will still happen in the absence of government.

Thank you for agreeing that my premise is sound. Have a wonderful day.

Nothing like context to make a point! Sound bites and bumper stickers are merely the skeleton of an effective argument.

 

[PratchettFan]

Why do right wingers like to ignore certain events like the Lewis and Clark Expedition etc?
The fact that Hoover Dam and the Manhattan Project made Vegas what it is today?
That without programs like NASA we would be behind in aviation etc?

Without public funding many things that we take for granted would not be what they are. It's like they hate government so much they have to ignore the facts. LOL

All those examples are great, but pales in comparison to the many achievements of the private sector.

Of course. The job of the government is to allow all of that to happen without major warfare going on. Its job is coordination and mediation. It's not a competition.

 

[regent]

There are many historians that would support the thesis that the Constitution was written to help America's business. Sure a lot of evidence.

 

[PratchettFan]

Excuse me, but knowledge is the issue when someone claims that the public sector is more knowledgeable. Since you never claimed that, and actually agree with me, there is no further need for me to prove you wrong.

Well, if you think just knowing how to lay a pipe without actually being able to lay a pipe will stave off cholera, then I guess you don't.

Do you think the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector, yes or no? If yes I will jump in and debate you all day long. If no, and all you want to do is argue about the tole of government in delivering those things, I suggest you read more of the Discworld books. He is pretty good at showing how absurd government bureaucracies are.

Your point is irrelevant. I am only concerned with whether or not the job gets done and it doesn't get done without the government. I love Terry Pratchett's work, but I do understand the difference between reality and fiction. Do you?

 

[PratchettFan]

There are many historians that would support the thesis that the Constitution was written to help America's business. Sure a lot of evidence.

You could argue that, though I doubt with any real success. Even so, so what?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, if you think just knowing how to lay a pipe without actually being able to lay a pipe will stave off cholera, then I guess you don't.

Do you think the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector, yes or no? If yes I will jump in and debate you all day long. If no, and all you want to do is argue about the tole of government in delivering those things, I suggest you read more of the Discworld books. He is pretty good at showing how absurd government bureaucracies are.

Your point is irrelevant. I am only concerned with whether or not the job gets done and it doesn't get done without the government. I love Terry Pratchett's work, but I do understand the difference between reality and fiction. Do you?

If that was your concern you shouldn't have jumped in and tried to argue that the public sector is more knowledgeable than the private sector.