Why Should God Let You Into Heaven?

[koshergrl]

Nonsense. People have to live with the consequences of their decisions. God gives us the opportunity to choose him...but he gives us the ability to reject him, too. If we reject him, then we damn ourselves to hell, because as a perfectly righteous being, he cannot tolerate the presence of un-righteousness. And if you refuse to be cleansed of sin, then you cannot be near God, and you deserve punishment for your sins.

Go provides us the model of forgiveness and the map to heaven. All we have to do is ask for forgiveness and accept the gift of salvation. If you don't want it, you have no right to complain that you can't be in heaven. That's just stupid. Essentially, what you're saying is that if God is a loving God he will FORCE us to be in heaven, and drag us there kicking and screaming..even if we rejected him all during our lives, and renounce him after death.

It's pretty much the antithesis of heaven. Heaven is where we go because we want to go there. There isn't going to be anyone penned up there against their will. People who reject heaven get to live with their sin, in hell. I wish them joy of it.

 

[koshergrl]

And people who renounce God, who reject the gift of salvation, who spit in the face of their creator...they have no right to expect eternal life with the rest of us who embrace God, worship God, and asked for forgiveness. They have rejected grace, they are condemned to a graceless and miserable existence. It's what they want. And they will get it.

 

[MaxGrit]

Romans 11 English Standard Version (ESV)

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
And David says,

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs forever.”
So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
“Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”
For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

Problem is you don't really understand anything you are posting here. It is all in vain and a total waste of time and server space.

Holy Spirit teaches me and give me understanding of the word of God. Perhaps you should take the time to remove the plank from your eye first.

 

[House Mouse]

It ain't over yet. Who declared it over?

I don't know who declared it was over...did you perhaps ?? As long as we have a breath in our body, we can declare that Christ is King, and Lord of our lives, but after that last breathe is drawn, well............then your fate is sealed.....but you will still bow down to Him, but sadly, you will be directed elsewhere, and there will be no redemption left...

Do you not believe YHWH to be powerful enough to grant reincarnation if it was the Will of YHWH?
​

If it is His will, of course. God spoke everything into creation, and so He can do anything He wants to do. But that doesn't mean that He WILL.

Well there you go.

I'm not saying that reincarnation is for everyone. Or even that it will undoubtedly occur with me.

Only that I would prefer it to Heaven or Hell, unless I had the option to become an Archangel or a Demon...

I am saying that it is within the Power of God to grant reincarnation, so as not to dismiss any other possibilities of an afterlife outside of "spending an eternity" in "Heaven" or "Hell".
​

You are promised a RESSURECTION.

Yes, but not a reincarnation. 1 Corinthians 15 stating “So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body,” (1 Cor. 15:42-44).

Please correct me Goddess, if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that if one could be reincarnated, it might be as someone or something different, plus it would die again as well.

 

[rdean]

I totally believe that God would let in the gays. Why else did he give them so much talent? You don't give talent to people you hate.

 

[koshergrl]

Who said he hates sinners? He loves and pities them, and will gladly take them. As long as they accept Christ and repent.

Lucifer was one of God's favorites. God gives talent to people all the time to people. He doesn't hate them. But if they hate him, he isn't going to force them to join him in heaven.

 

[House Mouse]

I totally believe that God would let in the gays. Why else did he give them so much talent? You don't give talent to people you hate.

The sin of homosexuality is no worse than any other sin. As far as God is concerned, sin is sin and only we as humans put greater importance of one sin over another, usually deluding ourselves into thinking everyone elses sin is far worse than our own sin. All of us have the opportunity to confess our sins, and accept Christ as Lord of our life as long as we have breath in our body...BUT what is of utmost importance is that we are sincere about our confession of sin and profession of faith, otherwise it is like spitting into the wind, and is of no use,

 

[ninja007]

Guys, please lets stay on topic and keep this thread civil and about the O.P. For those who reply- we assume that 1. You believe there is a God and 2. want to go to Heaven. Thanks in advance.....


so, why should God let you into Heaven after you die? (serious replies only please).

I was crushed as a child when my mom told me the punishment for sin is death. I told my mother I won't ever sin, she said, "too late, you already did so you will die". Too bad there isn't a waiver for children or something.

Religion is child abuse

Teaching kids they're worthless sinners headed for hell is child abuse,

Famed Atheist Richard Dawkins Forcing Religion on Kids Is 8216 Child Abuse 8217 TheBlaze.com

Jesus didn't want religion. Jesus didn't like tradition. Jesus wants a relationship. Jesus wasn't too fond of the Pharisees.

 

[ninja007]

Guys, please lets stay on topic and keep this thread civil and about the O.P. For those who reply- we assume that 1. You believe there is a God and 2. want to go to Heaven. Thanks in advance.....


so, why should God let you into Heaven after you die? (serious replies only please).

I've done nothing, NOTHING, that should get me set on fire forever.

That is your opinion, and unfortunately, yours is not the operative opinion on this subject.

thats not my opinion, but God's. I would worry about it if I were you.

 

[ninja007]

Actually, there is absolutely no requirement for anyone's going to Heaven. Christ is coming back and will set up an earthly kingdom here where those who partake of the first resurrection will reign with Christ. It is Christ's very mission, given Him by the Father, that He save all. The Bible clearly states that Christ will save all in due time.

He doesn't save all- what are you talking about? Only those who accept Him as Savior are saved. And the reason you go to Heaven is because of Jesus- that is it. Hell is a real place and everyone is going there who are not born again believers.

Could you give me directions as to exactly where Hell is? I looked it up on my world globe and could not find it anywhere. Hell is merely the grave. The dead are dead period.

Actually, it is you fundamentalist who have proclaimed Christ to have failed miserably in the very mission the Father sent Him to accomplish.

This is Christ's mission as dictated by the Father:

1Jn_4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

This is what Paul said about that mission and its final outcome:

1Ti_4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

hell is a real place.


Sadly, there are countless people who twist the Scriptures in an attempt to teach that Hell is not what the Bible says it is... a place of flaming torment.

The Bible contains an overwhelming amount of irrefutable evidence teaching that Hell is indeed a literal place of torment, where those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ are punished in flaming fire and vengeance by God (2nd Thessalonians 1:8,9).
Here are many Scriptures to consider...

Numbers 26:10…

“And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, what time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.”

Korah and the men who rebelled with him against Moses were swallowed into Hell beneath.


Psalm 9:17…

“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”

Carefully notice that "hell" here cannot merely mean "the grave" as some foolishly teach. For if "hell" only means the grave, then where do the righteous go? The Bible plainly teaches that the righteous and the wicked do NOT go to the same place. The wicked are turned into Hell; but the righteous unto life eternal.


Psalm 139:8…

“If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”

The contrast here is between Heaven and Hell; not between Heaven and the grave. Also notice the interesting phrase... "If I make my bed in hell." Everyone who goes to Hell chooses to go there by rejecting Jesus as their Christ. It is sinful men who make their own bed in Hell. No sinner must go to Hell. The gift of eternal life is freely offered to all mankind through faith in Christ Jesus (John 14:6; Acts 10:43; Revelation 22:17).


Isaiah 5:14…

“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”

It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).


Ezekiel 31:16…

“I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit…”

Clearly, this Scripture defines "hell" as being more than the grave. The Bible speaks about "descending into the pit." The Bible also speaks of being "cast into Hell," which clearly implies judgment from a holy God. If "hell" merely meant grave as Mormons, Jehovah's Witness and other false prophets teach, then God would have said that the righteous shall be cast into hell too; but the Bible NEVER says that anywhere!!! Only the wicked shall be cast into Hell, a bottomless pit, where Satan is called "the angel of the bottomless pit" (Revelation 9:11).


Matthew 5:28,29…

“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”

The Bible plainly teaches that all sinners are condemned to Hell. If "hell" simply means grave, then what harm or worry is there in fornicating, getting drunk, raping, murdering, partying with illegal drugs and committing all sorts of other sins? There would be none. If there is NO place of punishment in eternity, then there is NO justice for all the victims of crimes committed in this earthly life. So then what advantage is there to being righteous? If one believes that the Bible is God's Word, then you absolutely must believe that Hell is a literal place of torment and anguish, that burns with searing flames of fire and brimstone, where sinners are punished for their sins against a holy God.


Matthew 16:18…

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

This is a very interesting Scripture. The word "gates" denotes the entrance (also the exit) of Hell. I heard one preacher say that the gates of Hell cannot prevent the Gospel from snatching souls from the depths of Hell. Of course, one who dies in their sins without the Lord is hopelessly lost for ever and ever. There are no second chances once a soul leaves this earthly life. There is NO such place as Purgatory and no amount of prayer or contributions to one's church can lessen God's flaming vengeance upon those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ.

This Scripture plainly teaches that the Church's arch enemy is Satan and the forces of Hell. We also see this evidenced by Ephesians 6:12. Our battle is not against flesh and blood (humanity); but against principalities, powers and spiritual wickedness in high places (the gates of Hell).

There is nothing in all those scriptures except your injecting what you think you see there. It's simply not there. If anyone was in a place of fiery punishment, he wouldn't know he was there and would feel no pain.

Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Job_14:21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

Psa_6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Ecc_9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

You really do need to get away from false doctrines, my Brother.

this is ot saints and the unsaved who have not been ressurrected yet. After the ressurrection, the body will be reunited with the spirit and we shall live forever- either with God or in the Lake of Fire.

 

[ninja007]

Limited atonement is it biblical

Question: "Limited atonement—is it biblical?"

Answer: “Limited atonement” is a term that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the purpose for Christ’s death on the cross and what His life, death and resurrection accomplished. It is the third letter of the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to explain what are known as the five points of Calvinism, also known as the doctrines of grace. The doctrine of limited atonement is clearly the most controversial and maybe even the most misunderstood of all the doctrines of grace. Because the name can confuse people and cause them to have wrong ideas about what is meant, some people prefer to use terms like “particular redemption,” “definite redemption,” “actual atonement,” or “intentional atonement.” These terms correctly focus on the fact that the Bible reveals Jesus’ death on the cross was intentional and had a definite purpose that it succeeded in accomplishing. Yet, like all of the doctrines of grace, what is important is not the name that is assigned to the doctrine but how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the nature and purpose of Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross.

The doctrine of limited atonement affirms that the Bible teaches Christ’s atoning work on the cross was done with a definite purpose in mind—to redeem for God people from every tribe, tongue and nation (Revelation 5:9). Jesus died, according to Matthew 1:21, to “save His people from their sins.” This truth is seen in many passages throughout Scripture. In John 10:15, we see that He lays “down His life for the sheep.” Who are the sheep? They are the people chosen by God from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). These are the same ones Jesus said were given to Him by the Father in order that He would fulfill the Father’s will by losing none of them and by raising all of them up in the last day (John 6:37-40). The truth that Jesus came for this specific reason is seen in both the Old and New Testaments. One of the greatest passages on the atonement in the Old Testament is Isaiah 53. In this passage alone, we see that He was “stricken for the transgression of God’s people” (Isaiah 53:8); that He would “justify many” because “He shall bear their iniquities” (Isaiah 53:11); and that He indeed “bore the sin of many” (Isaiah 53:12). These verses and many others talk about an atonement that was specific in whom it covered (God’s people), was substitutionary in nature (He actually bore their sins on the cross), and actually accomplished what God intended it to do (justify many). Clearly, here is a picture of an intentional, definite atonement. Christ died not simply to make justification a possibility but to actually justify those He died for. He died to save them, not to make them savable.

The doctrine of limited atonement also recognizes that the Bible teaches Jesus’ death on the cross was a substitutionary atonement for sins. Many theologians use the word “vicarious” to describe Christ’s atonement. This word means “acting on behalf of” or “representing another” and is used to describe “something performed or suffered by one person with the results accruing to the benefit or advantage of another.” The vicarious atonement of Christ means He was acting as a representative for a specific group of people (the elect) who would receive a direct benefit (salvation) as the result of His death. This concept is clearly seen in 2 Corinthians 5 “He (God the Father) made Him (Christ) who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” If Jesus actually stood in my place and bore my sin on the cross as the Bible teaches, then I can never be punished for that sin. In order for Christ’s atonement to truly be a substitutionary or vicarious atonement, then it must actually secure a real salvation for all for whom Christ died. If the atonement only makes salvation a possibility, then it cannot be a vicarious atonement. If Christ acted as a real and true substitute for those for whom He died, then all for whom He died will be saved. To say that Christ died a vicarious death in the place of all sinners but that not all sinners will be saved is a contradiction.

Four different words or aspects of the atonement are clearly seen in Scripture, and each one helps us understand the nature and extent of the atonement. These four words are ransom, reconciliation, propitiation and substitute. These four aspects of Christ’s atonement all speak of Christ as having actually accomplished something in His death. A study of these four terms in their biblical contexts leads to the obvious conclusion that one cannot hold to a true universal atonement without also requiring universal salvation. If one holds to an unlimited atonement while denying universal salvation, one ends up with a redemption that leaves men not totally free or actually redeemed, a reconciliation that leaves men still estranged from God, a propitiation that leaves men still under the wrath of God, and a substitutionary death that still makes the sinner himself help pay the debt of his sin. All of these aspects of the atoning work of Christ then become nothing more than a possibility that relies upon man to make them a reality.

But that is not what the Bible teaches. It teaches that those who are redeemed by Christ are truly free and their debt has been fully paid. It teaches that those who are reconciled to God are actually reconciled and the wall of separation that existed between them and God has been torn down (Colossians 2:14). It teaches that Christ’s death on the cross was a sacrifice that fully satisfied the wrath of God. It also teaches that Christ was indeed a substitute, a kinsmen redeemer, who acted in place of and on behalf of His people. When Jesus died on the cross, He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30), and the Greek word translated “finished” is teleō, which was used to indicate that a debt had been paid in full. And that is exactly what Jesus accomplished on the cross. “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross” (Colossians 2:13-14).

One common misunderstanding about the doctrine of limited atonement is that this view somehow lessens or limits the value of the atonement of Christ. Yet exactly the opposite is true. Limited atonement correctly recognizes that Christ’s death was of infinite value and lacking in nothing. In fact, it is of such value that, had God so willed, Christ’s death could have saved every member of the human race. Christ would not have had to suffer any more or do anything different to save every human who ever lived than He did in securing the salvation of the elect. But that was not God’s purpose in sending Christ to the cross. God’s purpose in the atonement was that Jesus would secure forever the salvation of those the Father had given to Him (Hebrews 7:25). Therefore, while Christ’s atonement was limited in its intent or purpose, it was unlimited in its power.

Another common misunderstanding about the doctrine of limited atonement is that it somehow lessens or diminishes the love of God for humanity. Yet, again, exactly the opposite is true. Of all of the doctrines of grace, the doctrine of limited atonement, when correctly understood, magnifies the love of God; it does not diminish it. Limited atonement reinforces the intensive love of God that is revealed in the Bible. God loves His people with a love that saves them from their sin, as opposed to the love of the unlimited atonement view that sees God’s love as being more general in nature. In the unlimited atonement view, He loves everyone in general but saves no one in particular and, in fact, leaves the matter of their salvation up to them. Which is more loving, a love that actually saves people or a love that makes salvation “possible” to those who are dead in trespasses and sins and unable to choose God?

One of the main arguments used against limited atonement is that, if Christ did not atone for the sins of everybody in the world and if God only intended to save the elect, how do you explain the numerous biblical passages that indicate the free offer of the gospel to “whosoever will come?” How can God offer salvation to all, including those whom He has not elected or foreordained to be saved? How can we understand the paradox that occurs because the Bible teaches God intends that only the elect will be saved, yet, on the other hand, the Bible also unequivocally declares that God freely and sincerely offers salvation to everyone who will believe? (Ezekiel 33:11; Isaiah 45:22; 55:1; Matthew 11:28; 23:37; 2 Peter 3:9; Revelation 22:17) The solution to this paradox is simply an acknowledgment of all that the Bible teaches. 1) The call of the gospel is universal in the sense that anybody that hears it and believes in it will be saved. 2) Because everyone is dead in trespasses and sin, no one will believe the gospel and respond in faith unless God first makes those who are dead in their trespasses and sins alive (Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that “whosoever believes” will have eternal life and then explains why some believe and some don’t.

Another argument against limited atonement points to the passages in the Bible that speak of Christ’s atonement in a more general or unlimited sense. For example, in 1 John 2:2 John says that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the “whole world.” Likewise, in John 4:42 Jesus is called the “Savior of the world” and in John 1:29 is said to “take way the sin of the world.” Other verses that seem to indicate an unlimited view of the atonement include 2 Corinthians 5:14-15: “He died for all” and 1 Timothy 2:6: “He gave Himself a ransom for all” (although Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45 say Christ came to “give His life a ransom for many”). Those who believe in unlimited atonement use such verses to make the point that, if Christ died for all and takes away the sins of the world, then His atonement cannot be limited to only the elect. However, these verses are easily reconciled with the many other verses that support the doctrine of limited atonement simply by recognizing that often the Bible uses the words “world” or “all” in a limited sense. They do not automatically mean “every individual in the entire world.” This is evident when just a few verses are considered. In Luke 2:1 it is recorded that a “decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered,” and Luke 2:3 says, “So all went to be registered everyone to his own city.” But, clearly, it is not talking about every individual in the whole world. Caesar’s decree did not apply to the Japanese, Chinese or countless other people throughout the world.

Similarly, the Pharisees, being dismayed at Jesus’ growing popularity said, “Look how the whole world has gone after Him!” Did every single person in the world follow Jesus? Or was the “world” limited to a small area of Palestine in which Jesus preached?

So, it should be readily apparent that the phrase “all” or “all the world” does not necessarily mean every individual. Understanding that basic fact allows one to consider each of these seemingly universal passages in their contexts, and, when that is done, it becomes apparent that they do not present any conflict with the doctrine of limited atonement.

Yet another argument against limited atonement is that it is a hindrance to the preaching of the gospel and to evangelism. Those that use this argument will say that if an evangelist cannot say, “Christ died for you,” then his effectiveness in presenting the gospel will be limited. Or they will say that, if only the elect will be saved, why should the gospel be preached at all? Once again, these objections are easily dealt with. The gospel is to be preached to everyone because it is the power of God to salvation for all who believe (Romans 1:16), and it is the means that God has ordained by which the elect will be saved (Romans 10:14-17). Also, the evangelist does not need to tell the unbeliever that “Christ died for your sins,” specifically. All he needs to proclaim is that Christ died to pay the penalty for sin and provide a way for sinners to be reconciled to a holy God. Believe in Him, and you will be saved.

The doctrines of grace, and specifically the doctrine of limited atonement, empower evangelism rather than hinder it. Embracing these wonderful biblical truths allows one to boldly and clearly declare the good news of the gospel, knowing that the power is not in our presentation of it or in the audience’s ability to understand it or desire to believe it, but, instead, rests solely upon an all-powerful God who has determined to save people from every tribe, tongue and nation. Belief in an unlimited atonement, on the other hand, presents many logical and biblical problems. First of all, if the atonement was truly unlimited, then every person would be saved as all of their sins, including the sin of unbelief, would have been paid for by Christ on the cross. However, such universalism is clearly unbiblical, as the Bible is very clear that not all people are saved or will be saved. Therefore, both the Arminian and Calvinist believe in some sort of limited atonement. The Arminian limits the effectiveness of the atonement in saying Christ died for all people but not all people will be saved. His view of the atonement limits its power as it only makes salvation a possibility and does not actually save anyone. On the other hand, the Calvinist limits the intent of the atonement by stating that Christ’s atonement was for specific people (the elect) and that it completely secured the salvation of those whom He died for. So, all Christians believe in some sort of limited atonement. The question, then, is not whether the Bible teaches a limited atonement but how or in what sense the atonement is limited. Is the power of the atonement limited in that it only makes salvation a possibility, or is its power to save unlimited and it actually results in the salvation of those whom God intended to save (the elect, His sheep)? Does God do the limiting, or does man? Does God’s sovereign grace and purpose dictate the ultimate success or failure of the redemptive work of Christ, or does the will of man decide whether God’s intentions and purposes will be realized?

A major problem with unlimited atonement is that is makes redemption merely a potential or hypothetical act. An unlimited atonement means that Christ’s sacrifice is not effectual until the sinner does his part in believing. In this view, the sinner’s faith is the determining factor as to whether Christ’s atonement actually accomplishes anything. If the doctrine of unlimited atonement is true, then it has Christ dying for people the Father knew would not be saved and has Christ paying the penalty for the sins of people who would also have to pay the penalty for the same sin. In effect, it makes God unjust. Either God punishes people for the sins that Christ atoned for, or Christ’s atonement was somehow lacking in that it does not sufficiently cover all the sins of those for whom He died. The problem with this view becomes even clearer when one considers that at the time Christ died on the cross there were already sinners that had died who will face the wrath of God in hell for their sin. Logically, it makes no sense for God the Father to have Christ atone for the sins of people who were already suffering the wrath of God for their sin. Where is the justice in punishing Christ for the sins of those that were already being punished for their sins? Again, this also shows that an unlimited atonement cannot be a vicarious, substitutionary atonement.

Still another problem with an unlimited view of the atonement is that it demeans the righteousness of God and destroys the grounds of a believer’s assurance. An important aspect of a believer’s assurance is that God is righteous and that He will not nor cannot punish sin twice. Therefore, the sin that is covered by Christ’s blood can never be charged to the sinner’s account. Yet that is what a universal atonement leads to. Christ is punished for the sins of those that are not saved, and then they are also punished in hell for the same sins.

Unlimited atonement says that, while Christ does a great deal to bring salvation to His people, His death on the cross did not actually secure that salvation for anyone. Christ’s death is not sufficient in and of itself to save lost people, and, in order for His atoning work to be effective, there is a requirement that sinners themselves must meet. That requirement is faith. For man to be saved, he must add his faith to Christ’s atoning work on the cross. Therefore, the effectiveness of the atonement is limited by man’s faith or lack thereof. On the other hand, limited atonement believes that Christ’s death and resurrection actually secures the salvation of His people. While God does require faith of His people, Christ’s death even paid for the sin of our unbelief, and, therefore, His death meets all requirements for our salvation and provides everything necessary to secure the salvation of God’s people including the faith to believe. That is true unconditional love, a salvation that is by grace alone in Christ alone. Christ plus nothing equals salvation—an atonement so sufficient that it secures everything necessary for salvation, including the faith that God gives us to believe (Ephesians 2:8).

Limited atonement, like all of the doctrines of grace, upholds and glorifies the unity of the triune Godhead as Father, Son and Holy Spirit all work in unison for the purpose of salvation. These doctrines build upon one another. The doctrine of total depravity establishes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of unregenerate man and leaves one with the question “Who can be saved?” The doctrine of unconditional election then answers the question by declaring God’s sovereign choice in choosing to save people despite their depravity and based solely on God’s sovereign choice to redeem for Himself people from every tribe, tongue and nation. Next, the doctrine of limited atonement explains how God can be perfectly just and yet redeem those sinful people and reconcile them to Himself. The only solution to the depravity of man was for God to provide a Redeemer who would act as their substitute and suffer the wrath of God for their sins. He did this in the death of Christ, who, having been crucified, completely and totally “canceled out the certificate of debt…having nailed it to the cross” (Colossians 2:13-14). That leads to another question: how can a spiritually dead sinner who is hostile to God have faith in the atoning work of Christ on the cross? That question is answered by the doctrine of grace that is known as irresistible grace, the “I” in the acronym TULIP.

This is one doctrine. There is another doctrine of full atonement. Get away from doctrines and read what the Bible actually says. You deny too many plain and easily understood scriptures.

Here's a good link for you: the christian doctrine of universal salvation

and heres one for you. The Bible does not teach Universalism.

Universalism

 

[ninja007]

It ends up that the Universalists hold to the idea that those rejecting Jesus receive the same benefits as those who accept Him. HoweverJesus said Mt. 7:13-15: “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.” Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” Jesus is not saying all will make it, not even many. He said at another time making it even clearer “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able” (Luke 13:24). Strive has the concept to agonize to get in, in other words repentance is a key part of receiving eternal life.

Notice Jesus said-few who find it. Therefore not many get saved- certainly not all, but a few. So Jesus did not teach that all will be saved.

 

[PostmodernProph]

If it is His will, of course. God spoke everything into creation, and so He can do anything He wants to do. But that doesn't mean that He WILL.

I asked this before, but the Christian ran from it;

So this god created you, wrote your DNA. established the conditions in which you live, but YOU should be punished for being what he made you?

And that doesn't seem just a wee bit absurd to you?

absolutely....but then, it isn't anything more than your fantasy, which might explain the absurdity......my creation, my DNA, my conditions don't control my choices.....it is my choices which determine my eternity......

 

[PostmodernProph]

What is so great about spending eternity in Heaven?​

the iced beverages......

 

[Hollie]

And people who renounce God, who reject the gift of salvation, who spit in the face of their creator...they have no right to expect eternal life with the rest of us who embrace God, worship God, and asked for forgiveness. They have rejected grace, they are condemned to a graceless and miserable existence. It's what they want. And they will get it.

Threats from the religiously insane.

 

[PratchettFan]

What is so great about spending eternity in Heaven?​

the iced beverages......

This constitutes the very first valid argument I have ever heard in favor of heaven.

 

[PostmodernProph]

But the god of the Bible intends to torture the overwhelming majority of humanity for all time.

a foolish conclusion at best......the God of the Bible intends, and expects, the majority of humanity to believe in him.....unfortunately, there are those of you who do not meet up with his expectations.....he has created you with the capability but you have failed him.......

 

[guno]

And people who renounce God, who reject the gift of salvation, who spit in the face of their creator...they have no right to expect eternal life with the rest of us who embrace God, worship God, and asked for forgiveness. They have rejected grace, they are condemned to a graceless and miserable existence. It's what they want. And they will get it.

Threats from the religiously insane.

This thread should be moved to a mental illness forum

 

[BillyP]

God's a bastard, he'll only let you into heaven if you obey a book.

 

[the_human_being]

That's OK. I believe in Universal Reconciliation (UR). It is the belief that God will have all mankind to be saved as the Bible so states.

That must be a different Bible than the one I read cover to cover several times....

No argument there. I have posted those very scriptures on here though, right from the King James version. I am totally aware that some Bible versions have changed the wordings to many scriptures.