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As if the most powerful being in the Universe need restrict Itself to "Good" or "Evil".
As if the most powerful being in the Universe need restrict Itself to "Good" or "Evil".
That's your idea of an answer?
The goat herder god of the Bible is an absurdity, as laughable as the Greek Gods. There is no power in this mythological character - he is no more powerful than Spiderman, because he no more exists than Spiderman does.
My engagement in this thread in the moral standing such a god would have IF he were to exist. The fact is, he would have no moral standing at all, and would be a devil, not a god.
The little cannibal of the Amazon of bygone days who grew up killing and eating members of a neighboring tribe and worshiping the crocodile god will not faces murder charges in the judgment, you may rest assured of that. Those who never heard of God or Jesus or the Law or the scriptures will not be judged by the same standards as we in this generation and in this culture will be judged. Those will be afforded an opportunity equal to our own or even better during the millennial reign of Christ upon this earth.
You base this on what? The brutal psychopath that is the god of the Bible says nothing about this - he declares that anyone who does not accept Jesus will be tortured for all eternity - no exceptions.
You should know that it's you who doesn't understand what the Bible actually says.Could you give me directions as to exactly where Hell is? I looked it up on my world globe and could not find it anywhere. Hell is merely the grave. The dead are dead period.
Actually, it is you fundamentalist who have proclaimed Christ to have failed miserably in the very mission the Father sent Him to accomplish.
This is Christ's mission as dictated by the Father:
1Jn_4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
This is what Paul said about that mission and its final outcome:
1Ti_4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
hell is a real place.
Sadly, there are countless people who twist the Scriptures in an attempt to teach that Hell is not what the Bible says it is... a place of flaming torment.
The Bible contains an overwhelming amount of irrefutable evidence teaching that Hell is indeed a literal place of torment, where those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ are punished in flaming fire and vengeance by God (2nd Thessalonians 1:8,9).
Here are many Scriptures to consider...
Numbers 26:10…
“And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, what time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.”
Korah and the men who rebelled with him against Moses were swallowed into Hell beneath.
Psalm 9:17…
“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”
Carefully notice that "hell" here cannot merely mean "the grave" as some foolishly teach. For if "hell" only means the grave, then where do the righteous go? The Bible plainly teaches that the righteous and the wicked do NOT go to the same place. The wicked are turned into Hell; but the righteous unto life eternal.
Psalm 139:8…
“If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”
The contrast here is between Heaven and Hell; not between Heaven and the grave. Also notice the interesting phrase... "If I make my bed in hell." Everyone who goes to Hell chooses to go there by rejecting Jesus as their Christ. It is sinful men who make their own bed in Hell. No sinner must go to Hell. The gift of eternal life is freely offered to all mankind through faith in Christ Jesus (John 14:6; Acts 10:43; Revelation 22:17).
Isaiah 5:14…
“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”
It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).
Ezekiel 31:16…
“I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit…”
Clearly, this Scripture defines "hell" as being more than the grave. The Bible speaks about "descending into the pit." The Bible also speaks of being "cast into Hell," which clearly implies judgment from a holy God. If "hell" merely meant grave as Mormons, Jehovah's Witness and other false prophets teach, then God would have said that the righteous shall be cast into hell too; but the Bible NEVER says that anywhere!!! Only the wicked shall be cast into Hell, a bottomless pit, where Satan is called "the angel of the bottomless pit" (Revelation 9:11).
Matthew 5:28,29…
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
The Bible plainly teaches that all sinners are condemned to Hell. If "hell" simply means grave, then what harm or worry is there in fornicating, getting drunk, raping, murdering, partying with illegal drugs and committing all sorts of other sins? There would be none. If there is NO place of punishment in eternity, then there is NO justice for all the victims of crimes committed in this earthly life. So then what advantage is there to being righteous? If one believes that the Bible is God's Word, then you absolutely must believe that Hell is a literal place of torment and anguish, that burns with searing flames of fire and brimstone, where sinners are punished for their sins against a holy God.
Matthew 16:18…
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
This is a very interesting Scripture. The word "gates" denotes the entrance (also the exit) of Hell. I heard one preacher say that the gates of Hell cannot prevent the Gospel from snatching souls from the depths of Hell. Of course, one who dies in their sins without the Lord is hopelessly lost for ever and ever. There are no second chances once a soul leaves this earthly life. There is NO such place as Purgatory and no amount of prayer or contributions to one's church can lessen God's flaming vengeance upon those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ.
This Scripture plainly teaches that the Church's arch enemy is Satan and the forces of Hell. We also see this evidenced by Ephesians 6:12. Our battle is not against flesh and blood (humanity); but against principalities, powers and spiritual wickedness in high places (the gates of Hell).
There is nothing in all those scriptures except your injecting what you think you see there. It's simply not there. If anyone was in a place of fiery punishment, he wouldn't know he was there and would feel no pain.
Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Job_14:21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Psa_6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Ecc_9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
You really do need to get away from false doctrines, my Brother.
this is ot saints and the unsaved who have not been ressurrected yet. After the ressurrection, the body will be reunited with the spirit and we shall live forever- either with God or in the Lake of Fire.
You are totally lacking in comprehending even the most basic of scriptures.
Guys, please lets stay on topic and keep this thread civil and about the O.P. For those who reply- we assume that 1. You believe there is a God and 2. want to go to Heaven. Thanks in advance.....
so, why should God let you into Heaven after you die? (serious replies only please).
Many reasons people are allowed into heaven. Yes, Jesus is the judge of all of mankind so none come to the Father but through Christ.
The real scary part for me though is that so many believer presume it is all guaranteed for them. Not so.
You should know that it's you who doesn't understand what the Bible actually says.hell is a real place.
Sadly, there are countless people who twist the Scriptures in an attempt to teach that Hell is not what the Bible says it is... a place of flaming torment.
The Bible contains an overwhelming amount of irrefutable evidence teaching that Hell is indeed a literal place of torment, where those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ are punished in flaming fire and vengeance by God (2nd Thessalonians 1:8,9).
Here are many Scriptures to consider...
Numbers 26:10…
“And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, what time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.”
Korah and the men who rebelled with him against Moses were swallowed into Hell beneath.
Psalm 9:17…
“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”
Carefully notice that "hell" here cannot merely mean "the grave" as some foolishly teach. For if "hell" only means the grave, then where do the righteous go? The Bible plainly teaches that the righteous and the wicked do NOT go to the same place. The wicked are turned into Hell; but the righteous unto life eternal.
Psalm 139:8…
“If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”
The contrast here is between Heaven and Hell; not between Heaven and the grave. Also notice the interesting phrase... "If I make my bed in hell." Everyone who goes to Hell chooses to go there by rejecting Jesus as their Christ. It is sinful men who make their own bed in Hell. No sinner must go to Hell. The gift of eternal life is freely offered to all mankind through faith in Christ Jesus (John 14:6; Acts 10:43; Revelation 22:17).
Isaiah 5:14…
“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”
It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).
Ezekiel 31:16…
“I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit…”
Clearly, this Scripture defines "hell" as being more than the grave. The Bible speaks about "descending into the pit." The Bible also speaks of being "cast into Hell," which clearly implies judgment from a holy God. If "hell" merely meant grave as Mormons, Jehovah's Witness and other false prophets teach, then God would have said that the righteous shall be cast into hell too; but the Bible NEVER says that anywhere!!! Only the wicked shall be cast into Hell, a bottomless pit, where Satan is called "the angel of the bottomless pit" (Revelation 9:11).
Matthew 5:28,29…
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
The Bible plainly teaches that all sinners are condemned to Hell. If "hell" simply means grave, then what harm or worry is there in fornicating, getting drunk, raping, murdering, partying with illegal drugs and committing all sorts of other sins? There would be none. If there is NO place of punishment in eternity, then there is NO justice for all the victims of crimes committed in this earthly life. So then what advantage is there to being righteous? If one believes that the Bible is God's Word, then you absolutely must believe that Hell is a literal place of torment and anguish, that burns with searing flames of fire and brimstone, where sinners are punished for their sins against a holy God.
Matthew 16:18…
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
This is a very interesting Scripture. The word "gates" denotes the entrance (also the exit) of Hell. I heard one preacher say that the gates of Hell cannot prevent the Gospel from snatching souls from the depths of Hell. Of course, one who dies in their sins without the Lord is hopelessly lost for ever and ever. There are no second chances once a soul leaves this earthly life. There is NO such place as Purgatory and no amount of prayer or contributions to one's church can lessen God's flaming vengeance upon those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ.
This Scripture plainly teaches that the Church's arch enemy is Satan and the forces of Hell. We also see this evidenced by Ephesians 6:12. Our battle is not against flesh and blood (humanity); but against principalities, powers and spiritual wickedness in high places (the gates of Hell).
There is nothing in all those scriptures except your injecting what you think you see there. It's simply not there. If anyone was in a place of fiery punishment, he wouldn't know he was there and would feel no pain.
Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Job_14:21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Psa_6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Ecc_9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
You really do need to get away from false doctrines, my Brother.
this is ot saints and the unsaved who have not been ressurrected yet. After the ressurrection, the body will be reunited with the spirit and we shall live forever- either with God or in the Lake of Fire.
You are totally lacking in comprehending even the most basic of scriptures.
Seriously though, why don't you just ask the Holy Spirit to teach you?
Guys, please lets stay on topic and keep this thread civil and about the O.P. For those who reply- we assume that 1. You believe there is a God and 2. want to go to Heaven. Thanks in advance.....
so, why should God let you into Heaven after you die? (serious replies only please).
Many reasons people are allowed into heaven. Yes, Jesus is the judge of all of mankind so none come to the Father but through Christ.
The real scary part for me though is that so many believer presume it is all guaranteed for them. Not so.
The way I understand it, being sinners won't stop them from going to heaven. From what Christians have told me, you just have to believe that Jesus is lord and savior and you have to be born again/baptized as a Christian.
You should know that it's you who doesn't understand what the Bible actually says.hell is a real place.
Sadly, there are countless people who twist the Scriptures in an attempt to teach that Hell is not what the Bible says it is... a place of flaming torment.
The Bible contains an overwhelming amount of irrefutable evidence teaching that Hell is indeed a literal place of torment, where those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ are punished in flaming fire and vengeance by God (2nd Thessalonians 1:8,9).
Here are many Scriptures to consider...
Numbers 26:10…
“And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, what time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.”
Korah and the men who rebelled with him against Moses were swallowed into Hell beneath.
Psalm 9:17…
“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”
Carefully notice that "hell" here cannot merely mean "the grave" as some foolishly teach. For if "hell" only means the grave, then where do the righteous go? The Bible plainly teaches that the righteous and the wicked do NOT go to the same place. The wicked are turned into Hell; but the righteous unto life eternal.
Psalm 139:8…
“If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”
The contrast here is between Heaven and Hell; not between Heaven and the grave. Also notice the interesting phrase... "If I make my bed in hell." Everyone who goes to Hell chooses to go there by rejecting Jesus as their Christ. It is sinful men who make their own bed in Hell. No sinner must go to Hell. The gift of eternal life is freely offered to all mankind through faith in Christ Jesus (John 14:6; Acts 10:43; Revelation 22:17).
Isaiah 5:14…
“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”
It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).
Ezekiel 31:16…
“I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit…”
Clearly, this Scripture defines "hell" as being more than the grave. The Bible speaks about "descending into the pit." The Bible also speaks of being "cast into Hell," which clearly implies judgment from a holy God. If "hell" merely meant grave as Mormons, Jehovah's Witness and other false prophets teach, then God would have said that the righteous shall be cast into hell too; but the Bible NEVER says that anywhere!!! Only the wicked shall be cast into Hell, a bottomless pit, where Satan is called "the angel of the bottomless pit" (Revelation 9:11).
Matthew 5:28,29…
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
The Bible plainly teaches that all sinners are condemned to Hell. If "hell" simply means grave, then what harm or worry is there in fornicating, getting drunk, raping, murdering, partying with illegal drugs and committing all sorts of other sins? There would be none. If there is NO place of punishment in eternity, then there is NO justice for all the victims of crimes committed in this earthly life. So then what advantage is there to being righteous? If one believes that the Bible is God's Word, then you absolutely must believe that Hell is a literal place of torment and anguish, that burns with searing flames of fire and brimstone, where sinners are punished for their sins against a holy God.
Matthew 16:18…
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
This is a very interesting Scripture. The word "gates" denotes the entrance (also the exit) of Hell. I heard one preacher say that the gates of Hell cannot prevent the Gospel from snatching souls from the depths of Hell. Of course, one who dies in their sins without the Lord is hopelessly lost for ever and ever. There are no second chances once a soul leaves this earthly life. There is NO such place as Purgatory and no amount of prayer or contributions to one's church can lessen God's flaming vengeance upon those who die in their sins without Jesus Christ.
This Scripture plainly teaches that the Church's arch enemy is Satan and the forces of Hell. We also see this evidenced by Ephesians 6:12. Our battle is not against flesh and blood (humanity); but against principalities, powers and spiritual wickedness in high places (the gates of Hell).
There is nothing in all those scriptures except your injecting what you think you see there. It's simply not there. If anyone was in a place of fiery punishment, he wouldn't know he was there and would feel no pain.
Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Job_14:21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Psa_6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Ecc_9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
You really do need to get away from false doctrines, my Brother.
this is ot saints and the unsaved who have not been ressurrected yet. After the ressurrection, the body will be reunited with the spirit and we shall live forever- either with God or in the Lake of Fire.
You are totally lacking in comprehending even the most basic of scriptures.
Seriously though, why don't you just ask the Holy Spirit to teach you?
One day we will both stand before Him. If He tells me I was a fool to speak up and defend His character, so be it.
At least He will not say "You did your best to call me a total failure, impotent, and a brutal merciless monster".
Think about it.
One day we will both stand before Him. If He tells me I was a fool to speak up and defend His character, so be it.
At least He will not say "You did your best to call me a total failure, impotent, and a brutal merciless monster".
Think about it.
I will say I like your ideas better than I do Christianity - but I'm not buying that the have a rational basis in the Bible.
If He was just a Just god then He wouldn't. Fortunately he's merciful as well.
Greg
So this god created you, wrote your DNA. established the conditions in which you live, but YOU should be punished for being what he made you?
And that doesn't seem just a wee bit absurd to you?
As if the most powerful being in the Universe need restrict Itself to "Good" or "Evil".
That's your idea of an answer?
The goat herder god of the Bible is an absurdity, as laughable as the Greek Gods. There is no power in this mythological character - he is no more powerful than Spiderman, because he no more exists than Spiderman does.
My engagement in this thread in the moral standing such a god would have IF he were to exist. The fact is, he would have no moral standing at all, and would be a devil, not a god.
The Devil is a god.
Guys, please lets stay on topic and keep this thread civil and about the O.P. For those who reply- we assume that 1. You believe there is a God and 2. want to go to Heaven. Thanks in advance.....
so, why should God let you into Heaven after you die? (serious replies only please).
Many reasons people are allowed into heaven. Yes, Jesus is the judge of all of mankind so none come to the Father but through Christ.
The real scary part for me though is that so many believer presume it is all guaranteed for them. Not so.
The way I understand it, being sinners won't stop them from going to heaven. From what Christians have told me, you just have to believe that Jesus is lord and savior and you have to be born again/baptized as a Christian.
Some kid in China doesn't "reject" the goat god.absolutely....but then, it isn't anything more than your fantasy, which might explain the absurdity......my creation, my DNA, my conditions don't control my choices.....it is my choices which determine my eternity......If it is His will, of course. God spoke everything into creation, and so He can do anything He wants to do. But that doesn't mean that He WILL.
I asked this before, but the Christian ran from it;
So this god created you, wrote your DNA. established the conditions in which you live, but YOU should be punished for being what he made you?
And that doesn't seem just a wee bit absurd to you?
and apparently you have declared that those who do not have an opportunity to make that choice in their lifetime will never be afforded the opportunity to make that choice......the Bible also says nothing about that......are you then calling God a brutal psychopath based on your own assumptions or upon what the Bible teaches?......The little cannibal of the Amazon of bygone days who grew up killing and eating members of a neighboring tribe and worshiping the crocodile god will not faces murder charges in the judgment, you may rest assured of that. Those who never heard of God or Jesus or the Law or the scriptures will not be judged by the same standards as we in this generation and in this culture will be judged. Those will be afforded an opportunity equal to our own or even better during the millennial reign of Christ upon this earth.
You base this on what? The brutal psychopath that is the god of the Bible says nothing about this - he declares that anyone who does not accept Jesus will be tortured for all eternity - no exceptions.
yet, as demonstrated, this conclusion is not based upon anything he's done, but only upon your own assumptions in ignorance.....As if the most powerful being in the Universe need restrict Itself to "Good" or "Evil".
That's your idea of an answer?
The goat herder god of the Bible is an absurdity, as laughable as the Greek Gods. There is no power in this mythological character - he is no more powerful than Spiderman, because he no more exists than Spiderman does.
My engagement in this thread in the moral standing such a god would have IF he were to exist. The fact is, he would have no moral standing at all, and would be a devil, not a god.
if sinning stopped you from going to heaven there would be no one in heaven.......Guys, please lets stay on topic and keep this thread civil and about the O.P. For those who reply- we assume that 1. You believe there is a God and 2. want to go to Heaven. Thanks in advance.....
so, why should God let you into Heaven after you die? (serious replies only please).
Many reasons people are allowed into heaven. Yes, Jesus is the judge of all of mankind so none come to the Father but through Christ.
The real scary part for me though is that so many believer presume it is all guaranteed for them. Not so.
The way I understand it, being sinners won't stop them from going to heaven. From what Christians have told me, you just have to believe that Jesus is lord and savior and you have to be born again/baptized as a Christian.
Nope. I can accept or chuck it...a decision i make every minute...........but who knows what God will do with this worthless bit of humanity I call myself.....my hope is a lot more than I have. Salvation would be nice.
Greg
if sinning stopped you from going to heaven there would be no one in heaven.......Guys, please lets stay on topic and keep this thread civil and about the O.P. For those who reply- we assume that 1. You believe there is a God and 2. want to go to Heaven. Thanks in advance.....
so, why should God let you into Heaven after you die? (serious replies only please).
Many reasons people are allowed into heaven. Yes, Jesus is the judge of all of mankind so none come to the Father but through Christ.
The real scary part for me though is that so many believer presume it is all guaranteed for them. Not so.
The way I understand it, being sinners won't stop them from going to heaven. From what Christians have told me, you just have to believe that Jesus is lord and savior and you have to be born again/baptized as a Christian.
