Why the West Must Support Ukraine

[krichton]

The west should help because that is what they agreed to do, in exchange for Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons. That really simplifies the matter.

 

[sparky]

~S~

 

[Ringo]

See how a real independent state should meet partners.
When I had a dog and sit down at the dinner table the dog had exactly the same face

 

[Ringo]

April 28, 1943 - the day of the creation of the SS division Galicia. The poster is taken from Ukrainian public sites, where they glorify this holiday.
The inscription on the poster is absolutely relevant for political Kiev and modern political Europe:
"Our alliance is a solid guarantee of a common victory over the enemy.
This is the way to a happy future life for all the peoples of Europe"

 

[flacaltenn]

He is not winning.

This was supposed to be a 3 day war. He miscalculated badly.

He steals from his people. If Biden receives millions from corruption, a la “Hunter Biden’s laptop,” is he a “winner” too?

What an amazing display of SUDDEN patriotism. Seems like the left FEARED WW3 when Trump was simply negotiating trade with China.. NOW you believe it's OUR JOB to kick Putin ass for being corrupt? NO. We deal with narco dictators in Central America to fix "their" immigration problem. We negotiate with the "Death to America" crazies for Gawd knows why...

And it's NOT our war. UKRAINE has made that clear. Because Ukraine doesn't want to the smoking epicenter of WW3 either.

Ukraine has been fought over for CENTURIES. Did Kennedy want to LIBERATE IT when it WAS the Soviet Union because Putin is slick and crooked? No. Kennedy went to the BRINK with the missiles in Cuba. BECAUSE -- that mattered.

AND NOW -- Putin had to watch NATO place missiles and troops on HIS doorstep. The CONTINUING expansion of NATO didn't MAKE A STRONGER NATO. Had nothing to do with restraining Russia because the NATO of 25/30 years ago was a BIG ENOUGH deterrent. We should have been wiser about TREATING Russia as a threat to the West.

RUSSIA was a signatory to the disarming of UKraine of nuclear missiles in the 90s. Russia PLEDGED to join us in protecting Ukraine from aggression. The whole Eastern Curtain countries were in harmony with both US and Russia and the rest of Europe for many years after the Soviet Union fell. But we kept adding the Balkans and other nations into the NATO alliance. WE constantly redrew the lines of Western "defense" until there WERE NO major "buffer nations".

You want to go to war with Russia -- do ya? How do you think THAT will end? Which American cities are you willing to see reduced to rubble and toxic glass?

We do what we CAN to arm them and fulfill those requests. And work for diplomacy while sanctioning the FUCK out of the poor people in Russia that are being "robbed by Putin" and STARVED by us. That's pretty drastic right there.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It depends on whom you're talking about when you say, "The West".

Western Europe can do what they want when it comes to dealing with Eastern Europe.

The US needs to distance itself from the ancestral squabbles of Europeans.

Not our table.

Which is exactly why we must oppose Putin and maintain the relative peace we have enjoyed since world War 2

 

[flacaltenn]

He is not winning.

This was supposed to be a 3 day war. He miscalculated badly.

You seen the drone videos and pix of Kharkiv? Mariupol? THose cities are GONE. Nothing left to live in or for. When a pansy ass war monger like you insists "that's not winning" you'd be RIGHT if gave A SHIT about Ukraine surviving. Putin did it in Chechnya. He did it Syria. He'll DO IT AGAIN to as much of Ukraine as he can. Ukraine MAY survive in some fashion, but they WILL NOT win anything.

Remember, we have awesome military power also. And we've been known to BOMB 7 different countries in ONE YEAR "for peace". We're not saints or super-heroes. We're losing control of OUR OWN country right now. THAT'S a much bigger problem.

 

[toobfreak]

Why the West Must Support Ukraine

We can support Ukraine without actually dragging ourselves into a war which has no national security interest to us!

Russia’s leaders are challenging America’s power and global leadership

Russia is a lame dog and no concern. Just ask Barry Obumma.

a revanchist chauvinistic 19th century autocratic kleptocracy

Now if only Joe could say that!

Either America leads the world or someone else leads the world.

Joe Bidden is no one for the job. He doesn't even run his own household.

 

[flacaltenn]

Which is exactly why we must oppose Putin and maintain the relative peace we have enjoyed since world War 2

Are we not "opposing Putin" ENOUGH for you? Call the play. Dont act like SUDDENLY you're some kind of patriot superhero.

 

[toobfreak]

Your emotional ad hominems demonstrate that you know you are on the wrong side of freedom and America.

Funny, considering that YOU started them! So you obviously don't value freedom!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are we not "opposing Putin" ENOUGH for you? Call the play. Dont act like SUDDENLY you're some kind of patriot superhero.

Yes, I think what we are doing is good. Hopefully, we are also working on a way to covertly assassinate him.

 

[toobfreak]

Too bad you don’t think the same as your father.

At least I had a father.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I figured the Putin buttlickers wouldn't like that one. But he has to go. Yesterday.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes, I think what we are doing is good. Hopefully, we are also working on a way to covertly assassinate him.

HOPEFULLY??? You want to make a crazy dictator PARANOID also? What did ya think about Trump ASSASSINATING that Iranian General who was coordinating direct and proxy terrorism AGAINST us and our troops ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Did ya cheer???

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You want to make a crazy dictator PARANOID also

Uh, that ship has sailed. What a bizarre comment by you.

You can waste your time comparing it to the Iranian general. That's stupid on at least two levels:

1) he didn't make the threat to nor does he have the power to threaten all of humanity

2) that was not covert in any way.

You are starting to flail a bit, my man.

 

[Toro]

Are we not "opposing Putin" ENOUGH for you? Call the play. Dont act like SUDDENLY you're some kind of patriot superhero.

It's funny that you pretend you are for liberty and human rights and then you post this shit.

"libertarian"

LOL

 

[krichton]

But he is winning, incredibly rich, and leader of the largest nation on the planet, and Russia is making money hand over fist now by the day as we waste billions on another futile war we have no serious intention on winning and you know it.

Has the USA actually won a single war since WWII? No, all our leaders do now is stroke us as they jack off a few more billion and countless lost lives.

The US has given 3 billion in military and humanitarian aid. How much has Russia spent just to execute this war? I'm not talking about losses, I'm just talking about the money spent to pay for a full scale invasion of another country. I wouldn't be surprised if it was up to 200 billion in all total.

What an amazing display of SUDDEN patriotism. Seems like the left FEARED WW3 when Trump was simply negotiating trade with China.. NOW you believe it's OUR JOB to kick Putin ass for being corrupt? NO. We deal with narco dictators in Central America to fix "their" immigration problem. We negotiate with the "Death to America" crazies for Gawd knows why...

And it's NOT our war. UKRAINE has made that clear. Because Ukraine doesn't want to the smoking epicenter of WW3 either.

Ukraine has been fought over for CENTURIES. Did Kennedy want to LIBERATE IT when it WAS the Soviet Union because Putin is slick and crooked? No. Kennedy went to the BRINK with the missiles in Cuba. BECAUSE -- that mattered.

AND NOW -- Putin had to watch NATO place missiles and troops on HIS doorstep. The CONTINUING expansion of NATO didn't MAKE A STRONGER NATO. Had nothing to do with restraining Russia because the NATO of 25/30 years ago was a BIG ENOUGH deterrent. We should have been wiser about TREATING Russia as a threat to the West.

RUSSIA was a signatory to the disarming of UKraine of nuclear missiles in the 90s. Russia PLEDGED to join us in protecting Ukraine from aggression. The whole Eastern Curtain countries were in harmony with both US and Russia and the rest of Europe for many years after the Soviet Union fell. But we kept adding the Balkans and other nations into the NATO alliance. WE constantly redrew the lines of Western "defense" until there WERE NO major "buffer nations".

You want to go to war with Russia -- do ya? How do you think THAT will end? Which American cities are you willing to see reduced to rubble and toxic glass?

We do what we CAN to arm them and fulfill those requests. And work for diplomacy while sanctioning the FUCK out of the poor people in Russia that are being "robbed by Putin" and STARVED by us. That's pretty drastic right there.

Yes, Russia signed an agreement to protect Ukraine. How ironic that they've been drawing up plans to continually attack Ukraine and now invade the entirety of the country. This is how committed Putin is to contracts for peace and non aggression. It's amazing how easily duped right wingers are by people who follow their same ideology.

No one is "placing missles" on his doorstep. If a country joins NATO it simply means NATO is able to respond quickly in the event of an attack. Why would Putin need to worry about that when he's a peaceful country with no intent on murder and imperialism? I'll give you a hint on that one, he's not. He fears NATO for exactly those reasons. He fears NATO because he has always wanted to retake Ukraine and the baltic states, along with Moldova and very possibly more. Attempting to take whole nations while NATO borders on those countries is perilous at best.

If Putin uses nuclear weapons that means he's an unstable monster drunk on his own power. There's no level of appeasement you can give someone like that in order to satisfy them, other than your own destruction. Have we learned absolutely nothing from past history?

 

[Sunsettommy]

He is not winning.

This was supposed to be a 3 day war. He miscalculated badly.

He steals from his people. If Biden receives millions from corruption, a la “Hunter Biden’s laptop,” is he a “winner” too?

He hasn't mobilized his professional army since there has been NO declaration of war which might change soon since Ukraine is stupidly attacking parts of Russia a truly dumb shit idea.

 

[flacaltenn]

Uh, that ship has sailed. What a bizarre comment by you.

You can waste your time comparing it to the Iranian general. That's stupid on at least two levels:

1) he didn't make the threat to nor does he have the power to threaten all of humanity

That's weak ass cop-out. The most powerful guy in Iran's proxy wars and killing of Americans in the Middle East. The "DEATH to America -- DEATH to Israel guy" IN YOUR VIEW -- "was not a threat to the world".. ASK Jordan or Saudi or Egypt what they thought of Soulemani.

So after KILLING/MAIMING thousands of US personnel stationed in Iraq or the Middle East and RUNNING hot wars in Syria and Saudi and Yemen -- you OBJECT TO ASSASSINATING HIM. But you want to knock off a LEADER of country who has been a PERMANENT member of the UN Security Council since inception and part of G20 for most of our lifetimes.

That in the least is prime hypocrisy. At the worst STUPID hypocrisy. I was part of the Cold War. Why do you think that instead of poking at each other all over the world and in the skies and under the oceans, THAT WE JUST DIDN"T DECAPITATE the Soviet Union?

You think Russia would just bloom like a huge Azalea garden of honesty, democracy, and become a perfect world citizen if we JUST remove ONE PERSON??? That's idiocy right there. MORE LIKELY to destabilize it and make them desperate enough to FIGHT BACK with everything they have.

Glad you're not in charge of anything important.

 

[flacaltenn]

2) that was not covert in any way.

You are starting to flail a bit, my man.

Oh so "Covert"{not taking responsibilty for a MAJOR decapitation) MAKES IT OK????

No...

How long ya think THAT secret is gonna last? Who the fuck in Russia CARES about finding out "who done it"?? They are gonna lash out at us anyways. As soon as the OTHER killings of staff and leadership internally played out.

Even if someone ON his STAFF took that job -- There'd be MAJOR battles over control and direction, and you'd be dealing with a nuclear power with LITTLE LEADERSHIP and continued fighting amongst themselves..

Which would be as dangerous as US having nuclear weapons with little REAL leadership. LOL...