Why we should listen to the 97%

[Foxfyre]

Sigh. I suppose it isn't enough that the huge lion's share of corporate campaign donations go to Democrats, many of whom are advocates for the global warming religion. I accept that our warmer religionists here read none of the arguments about corporate subsidies and how they FAVOR the global warming religion. I have long given up on anybody on the left having the will or integrity to objectively look at ANY evidence that does not support the global warming religion.

Not one of the warmers on this thread has even acknowledged the evidence put out there that all so-called oil company subsidies are non existent except for green energy programs, critical food production, assistance to low income families, and the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, all of which most of our most passionate warmers support and would scream like stuck pigs if anybody on the right suggested such 'subsidies' should be ended.

And those of us who demand honest science, who demand that ALL the science be included in the research, who refuse to give up our liberties, options, choices, and opportunities to what could be bogus or deeply flawed science, continue to have to stay strong and keep beating the drum of reason.

The leftwing envinronmental wackos, like some other segments of society, will tear everything down we hold dear and precious if the rest of us don't stay strong.

 

[bripat9643]

In my opinion the government should do neither. It should offer tax incentives to those who PRODUCE cleaner, cheaper energy to the greatest number of people. It should not be fundng energy in any way, nor should it be funding research that will inevitably be tainted just to qualify for those government dollars.

Then you have clearly changed your mind about supporting coal...!

I don't entirely disagree with your point though - and I do think feed-in tariffs have worked well in most countries where they have been used.

"Worked well" to do what, pour $billions down a sewer?

 

[Snookie]

Oil depletion allowance.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Oil depletion allowance.

Sounds like depreciation.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Foxfyre -

The issue here is not so much subsidies to oil (which is less often used to produce electricity), but to nuclear and coal (which are used to produce electricity). As my sig line shows, subsidies to nuclear and coal have often run to three times the amounts paid to renewables.

Nuclear has received abundant subsidies, but coal has received virtually none. All claims about coal subsidies are based in mischaracterizations of income tax law.

And why should we promote coal? Because it is the most plentiful, easily accessible fuel on Earth making it cheap and easily useful.

I'm afraid this is simply nonsense - clean coal is amongst the most expensive forms of electricity production we have.

That's only if you define "clean coal" to mean coal that doesn't emit CO2. Of course, that characterization is a joke. Coal is already more than clean enough. CO2 isn't a pollutant. Modern coal fired fired power plants are still the cheapest form of energy, if the government doesn't impose draconian regulations on them. Germany is building 20 new coal fired power plants. That's how "dirty" current coal technology is.

The term "clean coal" is a con.

The only realistic alternatives are oil and gas. All these attacks on coal are financed by the petrocrats, who also create myths about other alternatives so people will be fooled into thinking that this is just a temporary theft of the coal industry's customers. Of course, the younger generation of the oil-slimed 1% is leading the Green movement, not only to support class supremacy but because they are bored and spoiled rotten. Truly a disposable class, they live for the touchy-feely fantasy of communing with Nature. Devil's Island would have been a perfect and appropriately named place to dispose of all the Heirheads.

Nature is a pretty sight only to those sitting pretty. To real Americans, it is a source of high-wage jobs and low-priced products. The mutant preppy progs feel they have inherited superior genes and are born to rule, but they have such a passive, irrational, and primitive outlook on life that it is obvious they are unfit malignancies and must be deported or they will drag us down. With their Daddy's Money, they can afford to be such brainless weaklings, but we can't afford them to have any influence on society at all.

OLD SCHOOL: Paul Bunyan
NEW AGE: Paul Lynde

 

[PrometheusBound]

Fund research, NOT companies. The left continually wants to treat these things as the same concept and there is nothing further from the truth. There is something to be said for the government being capable of pushing tech with resources that it can afford to lose (and the fact that industry PREFERS static tech) but we don’t really do that. For the most part, the problems have occurred because we are sinking cash into companies rather than development in the hops that a small portion might someday reach to an R&D department. It is asinine and does nothing to clean anything up.

Are you suggesting the government fund only government research or that the government somehow restrict subsidies, tax breaks and the like to R&D?

You are taking the ruling-class idea of education, which doesn't make any sense and is only believed because they have the money, power, and influence to make it stick. The best way to get scientific progress is to pay students to study what is needed, recruiting High IQs starting at the age of 16. The present-day scientists are childish escapist freaks who didn't mind not earning a living until they were almost 30 years old. They should get no more respect than slackers who do that. Because of this indentured-servitude education, our talent pool has shrunk into a puddle.

 

[FA_Q2]

Yes. ALL government subsidies should be eliminated. Research is one thing. Being forced to pay extra taxes so that that money can be given to companies that would otherwise fail completely is a joke. If they have a product that they can deliver in a timely efficient manner then they don't NEED a subsidy.

Fund research, NOT companies. The left continually wants to treat these things as the same concept and there is nothing further from the truth. There is something to be said for the government being capable of pushing tech with resources that it can afford to lose (and the fact that industry PREFERS static tech) but we don’t really do that. For the most part, the problems have occurred because we are sinking cash into companies rather than development in the hops that a small portion might someday reach to an R&D department. It is asinine and does nothing to clean anything up.

Are you suggesting the government fund only government research or that the government somehow restrict subsidies, tax breaks and the like to R&D?

I am suggesting that the government give nothing to any company period. There is zero reason to mix government and corporation unless you actually like a corporatocracy. As soon as government gets involved they have a vested interest in the success or failure and you see what we have. Personal handouts to favored companies and limited competition as the beg companies in each field make it essentially illegal to compete.

If the government thinks that green energy is a viable tech then they can fund the research. Just like they do with NASA. I don’t mind actual research but I do mind corporate involvement in the government.

 

[flacaltenn]

Foxfyre -

The issue here is not so much subsidies to oil (which is less often used to produce electricity), but to nuclear and coal (which are used to produce electricity). As my sig line shows, subsidies to nuclear and coal have often run to three times the amounts paid to renewables.

Nuclear has received abundant subsidies, but coal has received virtually none. All claims about coal subsidies are based in mischaracterizations of income tax law.

I'm afraid this is simply nonsense - clean coal is amongst the most expensive forms of electricity production we have.

That's only if you define "clean coal" to mean coal that doesn't emit CO2. Of course, that characterization is a joke. Coal is already more than clean enough. CO2 isn't a pollutant. Modern coal fired fired power plants are still the cheapest form of energy, if the government doesn't impose draconian regulations on them. Germany is building 20 new coal fired power plants. That's how "dirty" current coal technology is.

The term "clean coal" is a con.

The only realistic alternatives are oil and gas. All these attacks on coal are financed by the petrocrats, who also create myths about other alternatives so people will be fooled into thinking that this is just a temporary theft of the coal industry's customers. Of course, the younger generation of the oil-slimed 1% is leading the Green movement, not only to support class supremacy but because they are bored and spoiled rotten. Truly a disposable class, they live for the touchy-feely fantasy of communing with Nature. Devil's Island would have been a perfect and appropriately named place to dispose of all the Heirheads.

Nature is a pretty sight only to those sitting pretty. To real Americans, it is a source of high-wage jobs and low-priced products. The mutant preppy progs feel they have inherited superior genes and are born to rule, but they have such a passive, irrational, and primitive outlook on life that it is obvious they are unfit malignancies and must be deported or they will drag us down. With their Daddy's Money, they can afford to be such brainless weaklings, but we can't afford them to have any influence on society at all.

OLD SCHOOL: Paul Bunyan
NEW AGE: Paul Lynde

I'm impressed as hell at your completely organized list of folks that have to die to validate your intellectual superiority --- but I'm not sure you're lucid enough to convince others.

There is some truth that the eco-frauds have no idea how the real world works. And no ability to evaluate the efficacy of shit that they DEMAND. That's not because they're spoiled rotten -- it's because they've been cheated out of thinking for themselves and a decent education..

There's a lot of sucking off "daddy's money" right now -- because innovation and risk-taking is vaporizing before our eyes. So is the standard of American life. Problem AIN'T the existing pools of money.. It's vision and leadership and will to CREATE..

People with fatalistic visions of "everyone else is the problem" are NOT visionary leaders who create.. OR --- in your case perhaps --- there's a 1% cabal that's standing in your way of terraforming the world in your own glowing image..



Perhaps if we all agree that having the Fed Govt pick all the winners and losers is counterproductive to ENCOURAGING the creation of smart new tech ventures, you'll be surprised to find who shows up to play the game and how many folks end up winning.

 

[Snookie]

Foxfyre -

The issue here is not so much subsidies to oil (which is less often used to produce electricity), but to nuclear and coal (which are used to produce electricity). As my sig line shows, subsidies to nuclear and coal have often run to three times the amounts paid to renewables.

Nuclear has received abundant subsidies, but coal has received virtually none. All claims about coal subsidies are based in mischaracterizations of income tax law.

I'm afraid this is simply nonsense - clean coal is amongst the most expensive forms of electricity production we have.

That's only if you define "clean coal" to mean coal that doesn't emit CO2. Of course, that characterization is a joke. Coal is already more than clean enough. CO2 isn't a pollutant. Modern coal fired fired power plants are still the cheapest form of energy, if the government doesn't impose draconian regulations on them. Germany is building 20 new coal fired power plants. That's how "dirty" current coal technology is.

The term "clean coal" is a con.

The only realistic alternatives are oil and gas. All these attacks on coal are financed by the petrocrats, who also create myths about other alternatives so people will be fooled into thinking that this is just a temporary theft of the coal industry's customers. Of course, the younger generation of the oil-slimed 1% is leading the Green movement, not only to support class supremacy but because they are bored and spoiled rotten. Truly a disposable class, they live for the touchy-feely fantasy of communing with Nature. Devil's Island would have been a perfect and appropriately named place to dispose of all the Heirheads.

Nature is a pretty sight only to those sitting pretty. To real Americans, it is a source of high-wage jobs and low-priced products. The mutant preppy progs feel they have inherited superior genes and are born to rule, but they have such a passive, irrational, and primitive outlook on life that it is obvious they are unfit malignancies and must be deported or they will drag us down. With their Daddy's Money, they can afford to be such brainless weaklings, but we can't afford them to have any influence on society at all.

OLD SCHOOL: Paul Bunyan
NEW AGE: Paul Lynde

Gotta love that clean coal.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Nuclear has received abundant subsidies, but coal has received virtually none. All claims about coal subsidies are based in mischaracterizations of income tax law.





That's only if you define "clean coal" to mean coal that doesn't emit CO2. Of course, that characterization is a joke. Coal is already more than clean enough. CO2 isn't a pollutant. Modern coal fired fired power plants are still the cheapest form of energy, if the government doesn't impose draconian regulations on them. Germany is building 20 new coal fired power plants. That's how "dirty" current coal technology is.

The term "clean coal" is a con.

The only realistic alternatives are oil and gas. All these attacks on coal are financed by the petrocrats, who also create myths about other alternatives so people will be fooled into thinking that this is just a temporary theft of the coal industry's customers. Of course, the younger generation of the oil-slimed 1% is leading the Green movement, not only to support class supremacy but because they are bored and spoiled rotten. Truly a disposable class, they live for the touchy-feely fantasy of communing with Nature. Devil's Island would have been a perfect and appropriately named place to dispose of all the Heirheads.

Nature is a pretty sight only to those sitting pretty. To real Americans, it is a source of high-wage jobs and low-priced products. The mutant preppy progs feel they have inherited superior genes and are born to rule, but they have such a passive, irrational, and primitive outlook on life that it is obvious they are unfit malignancies and must be deported or they will drag us down. With their Daddy's Money, they can afford to be such brainless weaklings, but we can't afford them to have any influence on society at all.

OLD SCHOOL: Paul Bunyan
NEW AGE: Paul Lynde

I'm impressed as hell at your completely organized list of folks that have to die to validate your intellectual superiority --- but I'm not sure you're lucid enough to convince others.

There is some truth that the eco-frauds have no idea how the real world works. And no ability to evaluate the efficacy of shit that they DEMAND. That's not because they're spoiled rotten -- it's because they've been cheated out of thinking for themselves and a decent education..

There's a lot of sucking off "daddy's money" right now -- because innovation and risk-taking is vaporizing before our eyes. So is the standard of American life. Problem AIN'T the existing pools of money.. It's vision and leadership and will to CREATE..

People with fatalistic visions of "everyone else is the problem" are NOT visionary leaders who create.. OR --- in your case perhaps --- there's a 1% cabal that's standing in your way of terraforming the world in your own glowing image..



Perhaps if we all agree that having the Fed Govt pick all the winners and losers is counterproductive to ENCOURAGING the creation of smart new tech ventures, you'll be surprised to find who shows up to play the game and how many folks end up winning.

It's either us or them. Typically, you want us to ignore them and pretend that they don't have power over us. And your proposal is contradicted by reality; you advocate the exact thing that is dragging us down: ownership of corporate patents by investors instead of inventors. And of course, you blindly continue with the demoralizing disincentive of getting a job by going years without a job, which doesn't affect the guillotine-fodder Heirheads with their fat allowances. I am not afraid of them, I am not afraid to wage class warfare against upper-class parasites. Only fools would see your pacifism as anything but protection of our natural enemies. A country based on birth and not worth will self-destruct. If your heroes believe they have a right to give unearned advantages to their Heirheads, then they must have gotten their own loot through luck or cheating.

 

[Abraham3]

There's a padded room down the hall on the left if you two would care to step down there and iron out your differences.

I love getting on the case of the "heirheads" because they think problems are all caused by someone else.

 

[PrometheusBound]

There's a padded room down the hall on the left if you two would care to step down there and iron out your differences.

I love getting on the case of the "heirheads" because they think problems are all caused by someone else.

In other words, if you had been a high school baseball player, you wouldn't have minded if the prep schools got to start every inning with the bases loaded? Of course you wouldn't have, what am I thinking, expecting you to care about unearned privileges! Just like you don't care what it does to America to have the spoiled slime that oozes out of a Greedhead's trophy wife be put ahead of real Americans with a lot more talent, you wouldn't have cared if your team lost to the guillotine-fodder all the time. It wouldn't affect your own stats, (which in real life are just brownie points, not the real achievement that would get you ahead in this analogy), and that's all that matters to a sociopath. After all, there's no I in "team," so that makes it socialist, just like patriotism, if you ever told people what you really think of your fellow Americans.

And if you were good, maybe you'd get a college scholarship or turn pro, since the scouts would just look at your own stats. Then you'd become rich enough to have your own sons start every inning with the bases loaded. So why shouldn't we take all the money that you've stolen from us, once we realize that it is only your own conceit, backed up by the predators, that makes you think you are necessary and valuable to the economy?

 

[Abraham3]

In other words, if you had been a high school baseball player, you wouldn't have minded if the prep schools got to start every inning with the bases loaded? Of course you wouldn't have, what am I thinking, expecting you to care about unearned privileges! Just like you don't care what it does to America to have the spoiled slime that oozes out of a Greedhead's trophy wife be put ahead of real Americans with a lot more talent, you wouldn't have cared if your team lost to the guillotine-fodder all the time. It wouldn't affect your own stats, (which in real life are just brownie points, not the real achievement that would get you ahead in this analogy), and that's all that matters to a sociopath. After all, there's no I in "team," so that makes it socialist, just like patriotism, if you ever told people what you really think of your fellow Americans.

And if you were good, maybe you'd get a college scholarship or turn pro, since the scouts would just look at your own stats. Then you'd become rich enough to have your own sons start every inning with the bases loaded. So why shouldn't we take all the money that you've stolen from us, once we realize that it is only your own conceit, backed up by the predators, that makes you think you are necessary and valuable to the economy?

I gotta stop shooting for subtlety. My point was that you criticize the "heirheads" for blaming others for our problems... which is you blaming the "heirheads" for our problems. Get it? You're doing just what you're criticizing the "heirheads" of doing. Okay? Clear?

Hey... not that I don't appreciate the psycho rant. You stick to your guns.

Here's one for you Promey...

Marat/Sade
4 years after the revolution
and the old kings execution
4 years after remember how
those portia took their final bow

String up every aristocrat
Out with the priests and let then live on their fat

Four years after we started fighting
Marat keeps up with his writing
Four years after the bastille fell
He still recalls the old battle yell

Down with all of the ruling class
Throw all the generals out on their ass

Why do they have the gold
Why do they have the power why why why why why
Do they have the friends at the top

Why do they have the jobs at the top

We've got nothing always had nothing
Nothing but holes and millions of them
Living in holes
Dying in holes
Holes in our bellies and
Holes in our clothes

Marat we're poor
And the poor stay poor
Marat don't make us wait any more
We want our rights and we don't care how
We want a revolution
Now

Four years he fought and he fought unafraid
Sniffing down traitors by traitors betrayed
Marat in the courtroom
Marat underground
Sometimes the otter and sometimes the hound

Fighting all the gentry and fighting every priest
The business man the bourgeois the military beast
Marat always ready to stifle every scheme
Of the sons of the ass licking dying regime

We've got new generals our leaders are new
They sit and they argue and all that they do
is sell their own colleagues
And ride upon their backs
Or jail them
Or break them
Or give them all the ax
Screaming in language that no one understand
Of the rights that we grab with our own bleeding hands
When we wiped out the bosses
And stormed threw the wall of the prison you told us
would outlast us all

Marat we're poor
And the poor stay poor
Marat don't make us wait any more.
We want our rights and we don't care how
We want a revolution
Now

Poor old marat they hunt you down
The bloodhounds are sniffing all over the town
Just yesterday your printing press was smashed
Now their asking your home address

Poor old Marat in you we trust
You work till your eyes turn as red a rust
But while you write their on your track
The boots mount the staircase
The doors thrown back

Poor old Marat in you we trust
You work till your eyes turn as red a rust
Poor old marat we trust in you

Marat we're poor
And the poor stay poor
Marat don't make us wait any more
We want our rights and we don't care how
We want a revolution
Now

---Judy Collins (I think)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oil depletion allowance.

The company spent the money first

See the difference

 

[Abraham3]

Oil depletion allowance.

The company spent the money first

See the difference

And so if they had only planned on staying in business for a single year, this would have been awkward and of little benefit. ;-)

Did they benefit from this? Yes.

Did this benefit reduce government revenues? Yes.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If you listened to the recording and this is all you have to say in response, why in god's name do you bother? Is your existence so filled with ignominy and bleak despair that these tawdry bangles of other's wit are, to your mind, fitting? Turn around. See the sun. Walk till your feet are wet.

This is why we don't take you seriously.

2013 conflict in Syria blamed on drought caused by global warming ? Flashback 1933: ?YO-YO BANNED IN SYRIA ? Blamed For Drought By Moslems? | Climate Depot

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Oil depletion allowance.

The company spent the money first

See the difference

And so if they had only planned on staying in business for a single year, this would have been awkward and of little benefit. ;-)

Did they benefit from this? Yes.

Did this benefit reduce government revenues? Yes.

Yes, businesses benefit from writing off their business expenses.
For instance, they can write off employee salaries. Good thing too.

 

[Abraham3]

Is that comment supposed to have any relevance or is it just absurdist humor?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Is that comment supposed to have any relevance or is it just absurdist humor?

Weren't you whining about businnesses writing off their expenses?

 

[skookerasbil]

The whole 97% thing is a total ruse.......

But don't take my word for it......see what the director of the Global Warming Policy Foundation says >>>>


"The consensus as described by the survey is virtually meaningless and tells us nothing about the current state of scientific opinion beyond the trivial observation that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and that human activities have warmed the planet to some unspecified extent. The survey methodology therefore fails to address the key points that are in dispute in the global warming debate."

If you still believe in 'climate change' read this? ? Telegraph Blogs



Lets remember.......the climate crusaders have a need to be in a perpetual state of angst over this stuff.....a search for meaning in their lives leads them to obsessing about shit that virtually nobody else cares about!!