Why we want stimulus now and worry about deficits later

[Uncensored2008]

US never in their history printed money to "offset" the debt.

NEVER.

Yet, expansion of the monetary supply fuels inflation, which devalues debt. Money isn't printed to directly service the debt, but monetary policy is most assuredly crafted to negate the debt.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Remember Bush didn't want a recession on his watch so he sent everyone $500 bucks? Where were the tea baggers back then? How come Republicans understood and apprciated that stimulus but can't understand we need one now?

Because they want Obama to fail?

Are you claiming that the Bush tax rebates were effective?

 

[saveliberty]

Obama stimulus was temporary, wasn't it?

So no, the left are not fixed on the government spending -- but the rights are. To them it's anathema, and this is the reason why this depression has been lasting so long.

No it wasn't temporary, it was renamed quantitative easing.

QE is not a fiscal stimulus. It has no effect on spending, debt or deficits. It is a form of a monetary stimulus.

Its not stimulus either as it turns out.

 

[ilia25]

US never in their history printed money to "offset" the debt.

NEVER.

Yet, expansion of the monetary supply fuels inflation, which devalues debt. Money isn't printed to directly service the debt, but monetary policy is most assuredly crafted to negate the debt.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Fed designs its policy according to the dual mandate -- price stability and low unemployment.

Besides, the US is and always has been perfectly capable of servicing its debt.

 

[ilia25]

Can you read? US got downgraded because a bunch of tea-baggers in the Congress were insisting on the US government refusing to pay its bills!

ROFL

Goddamn but you Shitters are dumb.

Of course the facts are just the opposite of your claim.

Tea party refusal to vote for rising debt limit means they insisted that the US government must refuse to pay 1/3 of its bills.

 

[Oddball]

Can you read? US got downgraded because a bunch of tea-baggers in the Congress were insisting on the US government refusing to pay its bills!

ROFL

Goddamn but you Shitters are dumb.

Of course the facts are just the opposite of your claim.

Tea party refusal to vote for rising debt limit means they insisted that the US government must refuse to pay 1/3 of its bills.

Total lie....But to be expected.

It would mean that the feds would finally have to cut spending.

 

[Oddball]

US never in their history printed money to "offset" the debt.

NEVER.

Yet, expansion of the monetary supply fuels inflation, which devalues debt. Money isn't printed to directly service the debt, but monetary policy is most assuredly crafted to negate the debt.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Fed designs its policy according to the dual mandate -- price stability and low unemployment.

And they're completely failing at that, too.

 

[Oddball]

QE is not a fiscal stimulus. It has no effect on spending, debt or deficits. It is a form of a monetary stimulus.

And it fucking failed too.

That is because almost any form of monetary stimulus is ineffective when the interest rates are near zero.

We needed more fiscal stimulus -- but the Neanderthals (aka Republicans) were determined to block it. That is why Fed felt it has to do something, anything that had even a remote chances of success.

No, what we need is for technocratic know-nothings to admit your towering failures, STFU, let the markets clear from your pious meddling, and let people of the nation rebuild the economy without your insolent patronage.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Can you read? US got downgraded because a bunch of tea-baggers in the Congress were insisting on the US government refusing to pay its bills!

ROFL

Goddamn but you Shitters are dumb.

Of course the facts are just the opposite of your claim.

Tea party refusal to vote for rising debt limit means they insisted that the US government must refuse to pay 1/3 of its bills.

No increase in the debt limit simply means no new borrowing.
It says nothing about servicing the debt we already have.

 

[ilia25]

ROFL

Goddamn but you Shitters are dumb.

Of course the facts are just the opposite of your claim.

Tea party refusal to vote for rising debt limit means they insisted that the US government must refuse to pay 1/3 of its bills.

No increase in the debt limit simply means no new borrowing.

The Congress instructed the government to pay for certain expenses well in excess of the tax revenues -- by borrowing the difference. That is what the budget calls for.

So refusal by the Congress to rise the debt limit means the US had to stop paying its bills.

If that does not deserve lowering the credit rating, I don't know what will.

 

[ilia25]

Remember Bush didn't want a recession on his watch so he sent everyone $500 bucks? Where were the tea baggers back then? How come Republicans understood and apprciated that stimulus but can't understand we need one now?

Because they want Obama to fail?

Are you claiming that the Bush tax rebates were effective?

Not really -- most of the savings were hoarded, so the effect on the economy was very small.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Nothing could be further from the truth.

ROFL

The Fed designs its policy according to the dual mandate -- price stability and low unemployment.

Such a noble and selfless group....

Monetary policy is designed to create price stability in the same way that Catholic ecumenical policy is designed to guard the souls of humanity.

Some of us might hold just a hint of cynicism toward the sincerity of the mission statement in contrast to the reality of deeds.

Besides, the US is and always has been perfectly capable of servicing its debt.

At the current level, in 2027 our debt will reach 50% of GDP. At that point, the ability of the nation to service the debt will be very questionable.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tea party refusal to vote for rising debt limit means they insisted that the US government must refuse to pay 1/3 of its bills.

No increase in the debt limit simply means no new borrowing.

The Congress instructed the government to pay for certain expenses well in excess of the tax revenues -- by borrowing the difference. That is what the budget says the government must do.

So refusal by the Congress to rise the debt limit means the US had to stop paying its bills.

If that does not deserve lowering the credit rating, I don't know what will.

When you cut spending, you buy less stuff.
That's not the same thing as "not paying 1/3 of your bills".
Social Security isn't a bill. Neither are the rest of the entitlements.

Cutting them will improve our credit rating.

Interest on Treasury securities is a bill.
Not paying that will ruin our credit rating.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not really -- most of the savings were hoarded, so the effect on the economy was very small.

In fact, most of the rebates were used for debt service, most consumers paid down credit cards with the windfall.

It had zero stimulus effect, of course that is the same effect Porkulus had - zero.

 

[saveliberty]

Remember Bush didn't want a recession on his watch so he sent everyone $500 bucks? Where were the tea baggers back then? How come Republicans understood and apprciated that stimulus but can't understand we need one now?

Because they want Obama to fail?

Are you claiming that the Bush tax rebates were effective?

Not really -- most of the savings were hoarded, so the effect on the economy was very small.

It was $200 and no one saved it.

 

[ilia25]

And it fucking failed too.

That is because almost any form of monetary stimulus is ineffective when the interest rates are near zero.

We needed more fiscal stimulus -- but the Neanderthals (aka Republicans) were determined to block it. That is why Fed felt it has to do something, anything that had even a remote chances of success.

No, what we need is for technocratic know-nothings to admit your towering failures, STFU, let the markets clear from your pious meddling, and let people of the nation rebuild the economy without your insolent patronage.

That is a pure unsubstantiated wishful thinking.

 

[saveliberty]

ilia has to be part of the Obama "truth" squad.

 

[ilia25]

No increase in the debt limit simply means no new borrowing.

The Congress instructed the government to pay for certain expenses well in excess of the tax revenues -- by borrowing the difference. That is what the budget says the government must do.

So refusal by the Congress to rise the debt limit means the US had to stop paying its bills.

If that does not deserve lowering the credit rating, I don't know what will.

When you cut spending, you buy less stuff.
That's not the same thing as "not paying 1/3 of your bills".

Social Security isn't a bill. Neither are the rest of the entitlements.

I fail to see the difference. Whether US defaults on its obligations to investors, to the seniors or to its contractors, it is completely irresponsible. And that was the only way to satisfy the teabaggers demand of cutting the spending overnight.

Not to mention that such a cut will send US into a recession severe enough to make servicing the debt impossible. A country that allows loons in the Congress hardly deserves a sterling credit rating.

 

[Oddball]

That is because almost any form of monetary stimulus is ineffective when the interest rates are near zero.

We needed more fiscal stimulus -- but the Neanderthals (aka Republicans) were determined to block it. That is why Fed felt it has to do something, anything that had even a remote chances of success.

No, what we need is for technocratic know-nothings to admit your towering failures, STFU, let the markets clear from your pious meddling, and let people of the nation rebuild the economy without your insolent patronage.

That is a pure unsubstantiated wishful thinking.

I know...Wishful thinking that arrogant know-it-all central controller tyrant asswipes like you, would actually get your fat arrogant know-it-all asses out of the way and let people alone.


I guy can always have a wish list, though.

 

[ilia25]

Nothing could be further from the truth.

ROFL

The Fed designs its policy according to the dual mandate -- price stability and low unemployment.

Such a noble and selfless group....

It has nothing to do with selflessness, they are paid very well to do their job.

Some of us might hold just a hint of cynicism toward the sincerity of the mission statement in contrast to the reality of deeds.

Well, they tend to worry about the price stability way too much at the expense of fighting the unemployment. But I don't see the debt in the picture at all.

Besides, the US is and always has been perfectly capable of servicing its debt.

At the current level, in 2027 our debt will reach 50% of GDP. At that point, the ability of the nation to service the debt will be very questionable.

Well, genius, you can question whether the Earth is round, but the US national debt is more than 100% of GDP as of now. But the US has no problem rolling it over at the record low rates.