Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[Wicked Jester]

Arab Spring is not the result of the Iraqi War. What a stupidly ignorant statement.

Oh no, just a coincidence that one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world was replaced with a representative democracy and suddenly all these things started happening (don't forget kids, it didn't start in Tunisia but well before).

Not all democracies are good, don't you get that? Look at Hamas, or look at Iran. That is where the Iraqi government is heading, into an alliance with Iran against us, and putting women into 4th class citizenship. You do not understand that coincidence is not causality.

You are saying then, for the record, you are happy that Iraq will ally with Iran and terrorize its women. Got that.

And i'm sure you can back all those claims with verifiable proof, correct?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Check the status of women in the south of Iran, Jester, and the growing close of Iraq and Iran with trade, commerce, and military commissions.

No one suggest getting of SH was bad. The point is: matters are now worse.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Check the status of women in the south of Iran, Jester, and the growing close of Iraq and Iran with trade, commerce, and military commissions.

No one suggest getting of SH was bad. The point is: matters are now worse.

Yeah, if you say so!

 

[Unkotare]

Since the sovereign nation of Iraq posed no threat to the existence of the world's only superpower, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law. Those who seek to rewrite history should start by explaining why Ahmad Chalabi fired tens of thousands of capable Iraqi bureaucrats in the spring of 2003, marking the beginning of Iraq's descent into looting.

The US invasion of Iraq was NOT "illegal." Iraq was in violation of the terms of ceasefire from the first Gulf War, and several UN resolutions made provision for consequences to such behavior. Argue about the details all you want, but the invasion was NOT "illegal" and will never be treated as such.

There is no UNSC resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq in 2003. The US invasion violates the UN Charter. SCR 1441 was accepted by the other permanment members of the SC because the only course of action it prescribed if Saddam interfered with the weapons inspector was to reconviene to determine what course of action to take. SCR 1441 superceeds all other resolution on the matter.

The UN passed resolution after resolution specifying what saddam had to do as conditions to the ceasefire of the first Gulf War. 1441 specifically calls for "one last opportunity to comply." The UN passed all these resolutions but never had the balls to enforce them (maybe because Koffi Annan's son was making so much money with the status quo?). When the unrest in the region of which saddam was a key instigator resulted in - after numerous other attacks - the worst terrorist attack on US soil, the US decided to enforce them. The UN can't manage to get anything done but rape civilians, spread cholera, and pass resolutions it will not enforce. That gives tyrants like saddam all the room they need to keep killing their own civilians, threatening their neighbors, and profiting while their own children and sick people die (of course blaming it all on the US somehow). Finally - finally! - enforcing the UN's own resolutions and doing what was in the best interests of the US is not and never will be "illegal." Professionally impotent bureaucrats who live to do nothing productive but rather push papers, talk, and draft resolutions they never mean to enforce are in the end utterly irrelevant, and hysterical cries of "illegal!" are their reaction to being exposed for what they are. Such cries are predictably taken up by partisan shills trying to win 'points' despite the fact that their mewling amounts to nothing in the real world.

 

[Unkotare]

Arab Spring is not the result of the Iraqi War. What a stupidly ignorant statement.

Oh no, just a coincidence that one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world was replaced with a representative democracy and suddenly all these things started happening (don't forget kids, it didn't start in Tunisia but well before).

Not all democracies are good, don't you get that? Look at Hamas, or look at Iran. That is where the Iraqi government is heading, into an alliance with Iran against us, and putting women into 4th class citizenship. You do not understand that coincidence is not causality.

You are saying then, for the record, you are happy that Iraq will ally with Iran and terrorize its women. Got that.

What a pathetic attempt at constructing a straw man. Pa-thetic.

And Hamas and Iran do NOT represent democracies. Maybe you haven't been paying attention. The rest of your speculation is just that.

 

[Unkotare]

No one suggest getting of SH was bad. The point is: matters are now worse.

You ever talk with any Iraqis who lived under saddam's regime?

 

[Wicked Jester]

No one suggest getting of SH was bad. The point is: matters are now worse.

You ever talk with any Iraqis who lived under saddam's regime?

How quickly they forget the massive amounts of Iraqi people dancing in the streets when they fully understood Sadaam's power was forever gone......And they sure don't want to remember the visions of the Iraqi people reacting to the unearthing of their relatives in all the mass graves that were discovered and uncovered.

But then, they're just Iraqi's, so who cares?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hundreds. What about you? Most of the Iraqis I have visted with are excited about joining with Iran to confront US ambitions in the ME. They are glad SH is gone, and they want us gone as well.

 

[deepthunk]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Yes, you’re missing a lot.
For one thing the country is NOT stable in the least; insurgent related attacks continue unabated, we just hear less about it because the press has lost interest since Bush left office. Does this mean the press was unfair to Bush on the issue? I’ll admit, maybe a little, but that doesn’t change the fact that the country isn’t stable and is in extreme danger of either falling into Iranian hands directly, or turning into an Iranian puppet state.
The Iraq war is an excellent example of an operation that was a tactical success, but a strategic blunder beyond measure as it has destabilized the Middle East and hurt American credibility beyond measure.
That’s just for starters, I could write an entire essay on what a dismal failure the Iraq war was.

 

[Unkotare]

No one suggest getting of SH was bad. The point is: matters are now worse.

You ever talk with any Iraqis who lived under saddam's regime?

How quickly they forget the massive amounts of Iraqi people dancing in the streets when they fully understood Sadaam's power was forever gone......And they sure don't want to remember the visions of the Iraqi people reacting to the unearthing of their relatives in all the mass graves that were discovered and uncovered.

But then, they're just Iraqi's, so who cares?

That sure seems to be the attitude (and willful memory lapse).

 

[Unkotare]

Hundreds. What about you? Most of the Iraqis I have visted with are excited about joining with Iran to confront US ambitions in the ME. They are glad SH is gone, and they want us gone as well.

Yes of course I have. I have known many Iraqis since long before the war. When did you speak with these "hundreds"? The second sentence of your post is a blatant lie and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That was in 2003. Is the electricity yet connected at pre-invasion levels, country wide? Are the sectarians killings end, yet? Have we managed to stop the linkage of Iraq and Iran?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Asking "What about you" is a lie? You goof. I have been blogging and on talk boards for almost a decade. I have talked to maybe a thousand Iraqis. They are glad SH is gone, wish we were gone, and most want to ally with Iran. Is the electricity at the level it needs to be for a healthy country? Are the women participating fully in society with their human rights respected and protected?

Come, Ukotare, you are defending the indefensible, and attacking me does not defend your silliness anyway.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't recal anyone claiming Iraq was a modern paradise suffering no ill-effects of a long period of warfare. You like your straw men, don't you?

 

[Unkotare]

Asking "What about you" is a lie? You goof. I have been blogging and on talk boards for almost a decade. I have talked to maybe a thousand Iraqis. .

On "talk boards"? Are you shitting me? 999 of the 'Iraqis' you "talked to" were really Chester 'Freckle' Chesterton somewhere in Kansas for all you know. I mean real people, in real life, face to face.

 

[Unkotare]

Come, Ukotare, you are defending the indefensible, and attacking me does not defend your silliness anyway.

I like this. This is always a sign that someone has run out of things to say.

"Aw, c'mon! You know! I mean, c'mon! Everyone knows! C'mon!"

Very persuasive.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I have know Iraqis and Iranians since the mid-70s. That's a long time, and I have been talking to and with them for a long time. Guys, your arguments are falling apart. They don't want us there, they don't want to be our allies, they want the lights on and us out.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Iraq already had mustard gas before Raygun took Iraq off the nations who support terrorist. After that not only did US companies sell equipment and supplies to Iraq but also our allies in France, Great Britton, Germany also were approved to sell Western technology to Iraq. That is how he was able to develop the WMD he had. Furthermore, the Administration gave Iraq 4 billion dollars in loan gaurentees (Which he defaulted on and we the tax payer paid) from Ronnie. The attack on the Kurdish village of Habjiba was carried out with Bell Heliocopters. Guess who sold them to Iraq?

What was the Raygun Amdministration's response to the news of chemical attacks on the Kurds?

Saddam was able to develop advance WMD because he had access to Western technology. Thank Raygun.

So it's Dubya's fault that France, Briton and Germany sold supplies to Iraq, right?

(Fuck, not being able to back quote really mangles the thread!)

Nope never said it was.

That's right, it was Reagan's fault!

You know, Saddam kept his mustache trimmed with a razor made by Wilkerson, further proof that Reagan is responsible for gassing the Kurds.

I mean, Wilkerson is made in Great Britain. Reagan RODE in a Bell Helicopter, more than once. AND he went to England which is actually IN Britain! Obviously Reagan gassed the Kurds!

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact remains, Uncensored, that we played the Iraqis against the Iranians. Reagan's permitting the Iran-Contra affair to play out had many unfortunate sides to it, one being so many officer and NCOs left the military services rather than serve a cic that would permit shenanigans such as that. Ronnie was such a loser in so many ways.

 

[Unkotare]

Guys, your arguments are falling apart. They don't want us there, they don't want to be our allies, they want the lights on and us out.

This is just "Aw, c'mon!" again.



ABCNEWS.com : Poll: Iraqis Report Better Postwar Life


Poll: Iraqis See Progress - Real Clear Politics – TIME.com


Archived Blog: Poll: Iraqis miss Bush strategy


Iraq: An example for the region - Iraq Election 2010 - Al Jazeera English

"Although Iraq still sees sectarian violence and terrorist bombings all too much, there is no question that the country has made monumental change to its political system and in a relatively short time.

This week's free and fair elections are yet another example of a young democracy taking hold in a country where just a few years ago real elections and campaigning were unthinkable.

No country in the Middle East gives its people more freedoms than Iraq does today. NGO's are being created weekly; a civil society has emerged to challenge the government's decisions, demand transparency, represent minorities and bring attention to people and issues that were ignored in the past.

Iraq has a free press that is unrivalled in the Arab world, unobstructed access to the Internet and a military that is becoming a force to be reckoned with in the heart of the world's most unstable territory.

While Iraq's very young democracy is messy, incomplete and imperfect, it is currently the envy of the Arab world."