Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[9thIDdoc]

"OK, I'll answer both your posts here. Firstly the number of people Saddam killed. However you break the number down, the vast majority of the people he killed including the genocide against the kurds at Halabja were from when he seized power until the beginning of the Gulf War..."

Vast majority?? Can you back that statement up with fact?He had more than a few people killed during his invasion of Kwait, the Gulf War, the following uprising against him, another decade of oppression and the Invasion of Iraq (GWII).

"...So don't you think it's hypocritical of war supporters to use those deaths as a reason to invade Iraq when America supported and armed Saddam during the preiod when most of those deaths occurred."

Not at all. As far as global politics/history is concerned that was ancient history.

 

[idb]

"OK, I'll answer both your posts here. Firstly the number of people Saddam killed. However you break the number down, the vast majority of the people he killed including the genocide against the kurds at Halabja were from when he seized power until the beginning of the Gulf War..."

Vast majority?? Can you back that statement up with fact?He had more than a few people killed during his invasion of Kwait, the Gulf War, the following uprising against him, another decade of oppression and the Invasion of Iraq (GWII).

"...So don't you think it's hypocritical of war supporters to use those deaths as a reason to invade Iraq when America supported and armed Saddam during the preiod when most of those deaths occurred."

Not at all. As far as global politics/history is concerned that was ancient history.

Not at all. As far as global politics/history is concerned that was ancient history.

So you agree that supporters of the war shouldn't bring up the number of deaths under Saddam as a justification for the invasion?
After all, it's ancient history.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The numbers of American deaths are not, ipso facto, reasons to support the Iraq War.

 

[Bfgrn]

The preventative war that WE brought to Iraq killed more innocent Iraqis than 10 Saddam Husseins.

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?
Mahatma Gandhi

 

[Dr.Drock]

Don't forget the 150k maimed, and 100k Iraqis is way conservative. 2-3 trillion dollars for nuthin'. Stupidest war evahhhh. Ruined the Aghan war too.And thanks for the depression, and paralyzing the country since 1/2010...

Well I know I'm just nitpicking but the Vietnam War was more stupid than the Iraq War, most of our foreign policy and how we use our military is stupid just to different degrees.

 

[JRK]

Good grief!
Please quote where I or anyone here has shown "lack of respect for these kids".

Bud If I have to tell you how far you have went over the line with all of this, it should suffice to say that should do it
you can question me 7-24s 365
we can debate what a WMD is and what A stock pile of WMDs are
i dont care
you can cal GWB every name in the book
I dont care

Those kids volunteered and put everything they have on the line because they feel the very same way I do
every-time you say one of them gave there life because they were lied too, I want you to find one that is doing this because he believes in it and look him in the face and start explaining to him what a fool he or she is
that they have been lied to and that there sacrifice is for nothing
go ahead

Like I said...lost...

its the liberal in you that makes you that way
To satrt with boh wars are a tragedy. without Saddam and OBL, thers is no wars
the root cause
not 9-11
not the WMDs
not the yellow cake
the people

2nd
you think we should not have went, you use the lose of life of american troops as one of your reasons
You speak for people who knew when they joined that there was avery good chance (marines etc...) that they were going to see battle
they did that for a reason, they joined ecause they see these events in the same light (in general) as I do

After 9-11 this world changed and those kids who decided to and fight the battle seen the very things we had no choice but to do the same Bush did and millions of us did and still do, yet you think its your place in life to speak for those kids

ITS NOT

let me ask another question. you realize there has been more people murdered in this country sense 9-11 than has died in Iraq?

yet your focus is not that proble, your more worried about attacking Bush and using those kids bravery and commitment to the cause as your reason

I hate violence, I hate where we are in both of those wars. But what else do we do after 9-11?
those kids knew what had to be done and they did it

You talk about Iraq as this huge failure and in only 7 years they has a 62% turnout in there last election that has women not only voting, but elected
saddam is gone
his desire to mass Weapons that have but one purpose is gone
His proven record of being mass murderer is gone

 

[JRK]

"OK, I'll answer both your posts here. Firstly the number of people Saddam killed. However you break the number down, the vast majority of the people he killed including the genocide against the kurds at Halabja were from when he seized power until the beginning of the Gulf War..."

Vast majority?? Can you back that statement up with fact?He had more than a few people killed during his invasion of Kwait, the Gulf War, the following uprising against him, another decade of oppression and the Invasion of Iraq (GWII).

"...So don't you think it's hypocritical of war supporters to use those deaths as a reason to invade Iraq when America supported and armed Saddam during the preiod when most of those deaths occurred."

Not at all. As far as global politics/history is concerned that was ancient history.

Not at all. As far as global politics/history is concerned that was ancient history.

So you agree that supporters of the war shouldn't bring up the number of deaths under Saddam as a justification for the invasion?
After all, it's ancient history.

So we should not use the history of what that person was as we decide on what he may do?
that logic and ted bundy makes no sense what so ever. One of the very reaons we could not trust Saddam with anymore than BB gun is thos 1 million people he murdered as well as invading Kuwait for what he claimed was drilling for oil in Iraq, side ways

 

[Dr.Drock]

Bud If I have to tell you how far you have went over the line with all of this, it should suffice to say that should do it
you can question me 7-24s 365
we can debate what a WMD is and what A stock pile of WMDs are
i dont care
you can cal GWB every name in the book
I dont care

Those kids volunteered and put everything they have on the line because they feel the very same way I do
every-time you say one of them gave there life because they were lied too, I want you to find one that is doing this because he believes in it and look him in the face and start explaining to him what a fool he or she is
that they have been lied to and that there sacrifice is for nothing
go ahead

Like I said...lost...

its the liberal in you that makes you that way
To satrt with boh wars are a tragedy. without Saddam and OBL, thers is no wars
the root cause
not 9-11
not the WMDs
not the yellow cake
the people

2nd
you think we should not have went, you use the lose of life of american troops as one of your reasons
You speak for people who knew when they joined that there was avery good chance (marines etc...) that they were going to see battle
they did that for a reason, they joined ecause they see these events in the same light (in general) as I do

After 9-11 this world changed and those kids who decided to and fight the battle seen the very things we had no choice but to do the same Bush did and millions of us did and still do, yet you think its your place in life to speak for those kids

ITS NOT

let me ask another question. you realize there has been more people murdered in this country sense 9-11 than has died in Iraq?

yet your focus is not that proble, your more worried about attacking Bush and using those kids bravery and commitment to the cause as your reason

I hate violence, I hate where we are in both of those wars. But what else do we do after 9-11?
those kids knew what had to be done and they did it

You talk about Iraq as this huge failure and in only 7 years they has a 62% turnout in there last election that has women not only voting, but elected
saddam is gone
his desire to mass Weapons that have but one purpose is gone
His proven record of being mass murderer is gone

Again I ask, how is having a Hezbollah agent elected a great success?

 

[JRK]

Like I said...lost...

its the liberal in you that makes you that way
To satrt with boh wars are a tragedy. without Saddam and OBL, thers is no wars
the root cause
not 9-11
not the WMDs
not the yellow cake
the people

2nd
you think we should not have went, you use the lose of life of american troops as one of your reasons
You speak for people who knew when they joined that there was avery good chance (marines etc...) that they were going to see battle
they did that for a reason, they joined ecause they see these events in the same light (in general) as I do

After 9-11 this world changed and those kids who decided to and fight the battle seen the very things we had no choice but to do the same Bush did and millions of us did and still do, yet you think its your place in life to speak for those kids

ITS NOT

let me ask another question. you realize there has been more people murdered in this country sense 9-11 than has died in Iraq?

yet your focus is not that proble, your more worried about attacking Bush and using those kids bravery and commitment to the cause as your reason

I hate violence, I hate where we are in both of those wars. But what else do we do after 9-11?
those kids knew what had to be done and they did it

You talk about Iraq as this huge failure and in only 7 years they has a 62% turnout in there last election that has women not only voting, but elected
saddam is gone
his desire to mass Weapons that have but one purpose is gone
His proven record of being mass murderer is gone

Again I ask, how is having a Hezbollah agent elected a great success?

You know BHO was elected the president by a huge margin. Many see him as a radical. My self I just see him as someone who is in over is head
Being blessed with living in a country that allows the people decide who represents us as well as leads us does not mean it goes the way the individual wants it too

The measure of success is not the person, its the way that person became that leader. I cannot use a better example

You see Iraqis president as a terrorist
I see him as a product of the victory and what the people of Iraq wanted as there leader

By the way have you been keeping up with the way the Iraqi govt. is helping get those 2 kids out of Iran today?
google it
It is amazing how far thats came in 8 years

 

[Nic_Driver]

Good grief!
Please quote where I or anyone here has shown "lack of respect for these kids".

Bud If I have to tell you how far you have went over the line with all of this, it should suffice to say that should do it
you can question me 7-24s 365
we can debate what a WMD is and what A stock pile of WMDs are
i dont care
you can cal GWB every name in the book
I dont care

Those kids volunteered and put everything they have on the line because they feel the very same way I do
every-time you say one of them gave there life because they were lied too, I want you to find one that is doing this because he believes in it and look him in the face and start explaining to him what a fool he or she is
that they have been lied to and that there sacrifice is for nothing
go ahead

Like I said...lost...

And he’s still horribly lost…

 

[Dr.Drock]

its the liberal in you that makes you that way
To satrt with boh wars are a tragedy. without Saddam and OBL, thers is no wars
the root cause
not 9-11
not the WMDs
not the yellow cake
the people

2nd
you think we should not have went, you use the lose of life of american troops as one of your reasons
You speak for people who knew when they joined that there was avery good chance (marines etc...) that they were going to see battle
they did that for a reason, they joined ecause they see these events in the same light (in general) as I do

After 9-11 this world changed and those kids who decided to and fight the battle seen the very things we had no choice but to do the same Bush did and millions of us did and still do, yet you think its your place in life to speak for those kids

ITS NOT

let me ask another question. you realize there has been more people murdered in this country sense 9-11 than has died in Iraq?

yet your focus is not that proble, your more worried about attacking Bush and using those kids bravery and commitment to the cause as your reason

I hate violence, I hate where we are in both of those wars. But what else do we do after 9-11?
those kids knew what had to be done and they did it

You talk about Iraq as this huge failure and in only 7 years they has a 62% turnout in there last election that has women not only voting, but elected
saddam is gone
his desire to mass Weapons that have but one purpose is gone
His proven record of being mass murderer is gone

Again I ask, how is having a Hezbollah agent elected a great success?

You know BHO was elected the president by a huge margin. Many see him as a radical. My self I just see him as someone who is in over is head
Being blessed with living in a country that allows the people decide who represents us as well as leads us does not mean it goes the way the individual wants it too

The measure of success is not the person, its the way that person became that leader. I cannot use a better example

You see Iraqis president as a terrorist
I see him as a product of the victory and what the people of Iraq wanted as there leader

By the way have you been keeping up with the way the Iraqi govt. is helping get those 2 kids out of Iran today?
google it
It is amazing how far thats came in 8 years

Good spin on how a friend of Iran and a friend of Hezbollah running Iraq is a good thing.

At least you didn't dodge the question, I give you credit for that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If anyone thinks Iran is anything but our enemy, and that Iraq will not ally with Iran, simply refuses to recognize reality.

 

[JRK]

Again I ask, how is having a Hezbollah agent elected a great success?

You know BHO was elected the president by a huge margin. Many see him as a radical. My self I just see him as someone who is in over is head
Being blessed with living in a country that allows the people decide who represents us as well as leads us does not mean it goes the way the individual wants it too

The measure of success is not the person, its the way that person became that leader. I cannot use a better example

You see Iraqis president as a terrorist
I see him as a product of the victory and what the people of Iraq wanted as there leader

By the way have you been keeping up with the way the Iraqi govt. is helping get those 2 kids out of Iran today?
google it
It is amazing how far thats came in 8 years

Good spin on how a friend of Iran and a friend of Hezbollah running Iraq is a good thing.

At least you didn't dodge the question, I give you credit for that.

Doc how do you get to where u are?
really

 

[BlindBoo]

what has amazed about this entire thread is the number of people who have no idea why there against what we did and think they have the right to decide what happens to those people who had the courage and reasons within there hearts to volunteer to do what they felt was the right thing

Every time there reasons have been in correct
they have blamed GWB and not said a word about the UN stating the very same things
It has been proven 100 times that the Military did find out dated but still carrying the nasty WMDs
over 500 of them. And some-how these munitions are not the same as one that was sitting on a scud ready to launch
the UN and the US congress did not state what shape the container that held the mustard gas was suppose to be in
THE SHIT WAS SUPPOSE TO BE GONE
nor the yellow cake

and what happened to the anthrax and the nerve gas and the other 6000 munitions that Saddam had according to everybody including the UN and Saddams own documents?

Buried like he buried his fighter jets?

No threat to us?

Look your opinions are fine with me, but try and find a reason that is real and stop taking what I say out of context because thats all you have left

Wow I am amazed at your dazzling display of ESP and communication with the dead.

Fact is the UN did not authorized any member state to remove Saddam's governement from power did they?

The US accused Iraq of actively producing and stockpiling massive amounts of Chemical and Biological weapons did they not? They were also accused of having an active nuclear program correct?

The small amount of muntions that are missing from their once hugh stockpile of weapons doesn't represent a grave enough threat to spend the lives of our proud volunteers in the military, IMHO.

The amount of mis information that you libs re peat is treasonous in my opinion
The UN does not hold jurisdiction over the US congress, but lets say they did

they were wrong to start with (The UN)
There was WMDs
There was yellow cake stock-piled
2nd, they were getting kick backs with the oil for food program, and third, there was 54 other nations invaded/supported our invasion
You opinion of what is a threat and what the US congress and our president thought is not the same
stop thinking it is and that you matter other than 1 vote
and stop lying

The amount of WMD material found was never in question, it was if
answer me 1 question
If this yellow cake was just sitting around from the 80s or early 90s. Why did it take until 2008 to get it out of there?

snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

 

[Dr.Drock]

You know BHO was elected the president by a huge margin. Many see him as a radical. My self I just see him as someone who is in over is head
Being blessed with living in a country that allows the people decide who represents us as well as leads us does not mean it goes the way the individual wants it too

The measure of success is not the person, its the way that person became that leader. I cannot use a better example

You see Iraqis president as a terrorist
I see him as a product of the victory and what the people of Iraq wanted as there leader

By the way have you been keeping up with the way the Iraqi govt. is helping get those 2 kids out of Iran today?
google it
It is amazing how far thats came in 8 years

Good spin on how a friend of Iran and a friend of Hezbollah running Iraq is a good thing.

At least you didn't dodge the question, I give you credit for that.

Doc how do you get to where u are?
really

How do I get to where I am? A person who thinks a man with terrorist connections running a country is a bad thing? I thought that was common sense.

 

[Mr Natural]

Four thousand dead soldiers, thousands more maimed for life, a trillion dollars down the drain, and nothing gained for us here at home.

I call that a failure of monumental proportions.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Wow I am amazed at your dazzling display of ESP and communication with the dead.

Fact is the UN did not authorized any member state to remove Saddam's governement from power did they?

The US accused Iraq of actively producing and stockpiling massive amounts of Chemical and Biological weapons did they not? They were also accused of having an active nuclear program correct?

The small amount of muntions that are missing from their once hugh stockpile of weapons doesn't represent a grave enough threat to spend the lives of our proud volunteers in the military, IMHO.

The amount of mis information that you libs re peat is treasonous in my opinion
The UN does not hold jurisdiction over the US congress, but lets say they did

they were wrong to start with (The UN)
There was WMDs
There was yellow cake stock-piled
2nd, they were getting kick backs with the oil for food program, and third, there was 54 other nations invaded/supported our invasion
You opinion of what is a threat and what the US congress and our president thought is not the same
stop thinking it is and that you matter other than 1 vote
and stop lying

The amount of WMD material found was never in question, it was if
answer me 1 question
If this yellow cake was just sitting around from the 80s or early 90s. Why did it take until 2008 to get it out of there?

snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

Here's the truth again!

Let's see JRK dance around this link one more time!

 

[JakeStarkey]

It is common sense. To deny reveals a lack of sense.

 

[BlindBoo]

The 4000 women and men who sacrificed there Lives did it because they felt it was the right thing to do. Who are you to question that?
as far as the money goes, BHO failed stimulus cost as much as the IRAQI war
WMDs gone
yellow cake gone
A man who had killed over 1 million people, gone
Lied to the world when he was given 100s of chances

The one million people thing. That number is generally quoted as the number killed when Saddam invaded Iran. And do you know who backed him in that war? Who was supporting him when he invaded Iran? So back then we weren't bothered about a million people dying. Don't you think it's a little hypocritical of war supporters to use the one million number now as a reason to invade him when we supported the guy before, during and after all those deaths?

And as for whether we found WMDs or not.

After we'd invaded and it became apparent there wasn't anything there Bush in desperation hand-picked the most gung ho weapons inspector there was, Charles Duelfer, a guy who'd staked his reputation on there being WMDs in Iraq, and sent him to Iraq to write the definitive report on exactly what WMDs there had been in Iraq. And he produced the following report. This is Bush's hand picked guy rmember, a guy who had a lot to lose if nothing was found. And here's what he found :

U.S. 'Almost All Wrong' on Weapons
Report on Iraq Contradicts Bush Administration Claims

By Dana Priest and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 7, 2004; Page A01

The 1991 Persian Gulf War and subsequent U.N. inspections destroyed Iraq's illicit weapons capability and, for the most part, Saddam Hussein did not try to rebuild it, according to an extensive report by the chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq that contradicts nearly every prewar assertion made by top administration officials about Iraq.

Charles A. Duelfer, whom the Bush administration chose to complete the U.S. investigation of Iraq's weapons programs, said Hussein's ability to produce nuclear weapons had "progressively decayed" since 1991. Inspectors, he said, found no evidence of "concerted efforts to restart the program."

The findings were similar on biological and chemical weapons. While Hussein had long dreamed of developing an arsenal of biological agents, his stockpiles had been destroyed and research stopped years before the United States led the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. Duelfer said Hussein hoped someday to resume a chemical weapons effort after U.N. sanctions ended, but had no stocks and had not researched making the weapons for a dozen years.

Duelfer's report, delivered yesterday to two congressional committees, represents the government's most definitive accounting of Hussein's weapons programs, the assumed strength of which the Bush administration presented as a central reason for the war. While previous reports have drawn similar conclusions, Duelfer's assessment went beyond them in depth, detail and level of certainty........

I can't post a link but you can find it easily with the google.

I just wrote a post about the mountain of mis information the left has amassed
okay
the 1 million number
Number of Victims

According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule".[9] Others have estimated 800,000 deaths caused by Saddam not counting the Iran-Iraq war.[10] Estimates as to the number of Iraqis executed by Saddam's regime vary from 300-500,000[11] to over 600,000,[12] estimates as to the number of Kurds he massacred vary from 70,000 to 300,000,[13] and estimates as to the number killed in the put-down of the 1991 rebellion vary from 60,000[14] to 200,000.[12] Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.[15]
[edit]Iraq sanctions

As far as WMDS go
you liberals just do not get it

Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

By Samantha L. Quigley
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.
"These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

Now let us visit what Hans Blix said about these weapons that do not exist on jan 27th 2003
FACTS - UN Chief inspector Hans Blix reported to Security Council members that Iraq failed to account for 1,000 tons of chemical agent, 6,500 chemical bombs, 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, 500 tons of sarin, mustard gas and VX nerve agent and 380 rocket engines useful in the delivery of biological and chemical agents.

March 9, 2004 U.S. Army troops operating at a former Iraqi air base discovered numerous Russian made missiles. They are more than 6 feet long and each carried 1.6 kilograms or about 3.5 pounds of radioactive uranium wrapped around a high explosive warhead. The uranium is not pure enough nor in large enough quantity to be a nuclear warhead. U.S. bomb experts noted the R-60 warheads are similar in design and content to a so-called "dirty bomb" that could contaminate a small area with radioactive materials.Weapons of Mass Destruction Iraq

In statements and reports, Blix's inspection team reported that despite Iraq's denials, there were indications that Iraq had created weapons of mass destruction, including VX agent, a weapon that Blix described as "one of the most toxic [nerve agents] ever developed." Blix's report also contained evidence that Iraq had provided contradictory information about its VX stocks in a 12,000-page declaration regarding Iraq's weapons programs that Iraq supplied to the Security Council in December 2002. The United States and United Kingdom contended that Iraq's false declaration to the Security Council was clear and convincing evidence of Iraq's continued unwillingness to comply with United Nations resolutions and to peacefully disarm.

UN inspection reports provided evidence to the Security Council that Iraq had failed to account for 6,500 chemical bombs, thousand of tons of known chemical agents, empty chemical warheads (including an empty Sakr-18 chemical warhead) discovered subsequent to Iraq's declaration, and stocks of thiodiglycol (a precursor of mustard gas).

Iraq admitted to producing—in violation of international law—8,500 liters of anthrax bacteria capable of use in biological warfare. Iraq claimed that production stopped before the first Persian Gulf War and that it destroyed the anthrax. UN inspection reports stated, "Iraq has provided little evidence for this production and no convincing evidence for its destruction." In addition, UN inspectors concluded that there were strong indications that Iraq had manufactured far greater stores of anthrax.

Blix also reported that Iraq had manufactured a missile, the Samoud 2, that violated United Nations range restrictions limiting missiles to a range of 90 miles (150 kilometers). Inspectors also provided evidence to the Security Council that Iraq rebuilt a missile plant that had previously been destroyed by earlier inspection teams and that it continued to illegally import chemicals used in formulating missile fuels and prohibited weapons. Blix ordered Iraq to begin destruction of the prohibited missiles by March 1, 2003, and to cease production of the missiles. Blix also insisted that Iraq begin to allow U-2 reconnaissance aircraft overflights demanded by inspectors.



Read more: Iraq War: Prelude to War (The International Debate Over the Use and Effectiveness of Weapons Inspections) - Iraq War: Prelude to War (The International Debate Over the Use and Effectiveness of Weapons Inspections) -

Speaking of lies or misrepresentation. If Depleted Uranium shells are WMD then we got some serious "splainin" to do.

 

[BlindBoo]

So all of that time the UN was not in Iraq they did what with this yellow cake that no-one said one word about until 2008?
And your source is more accurate than my source?
and that in 2003 with a war going on just who was baby sitting this stuff then?
you think this shit is funny?

I think you are funny! It was from the link you provided.

That the US found the yellow cake in 2003?
you think thats funny?
No-one knows the truth, no more than can any-one explain how the UN had control of this stuff when there was years they were not there

Again, your link said it was not found in 2003 but had been there since the Israeli mission to destroy his Nuclear Plant. Again what I find funny is that this information comes from your link, understand? In fact it is funny as hell that you still deny it.