Will Republicans ever admit the mess they left President Obama?

[Ray From Cleveland]

His policies, like all presidents, either help or hinder job growth. I doubt it's possible to identify which policies helped or hurt. Same holds true with Reagan.

I can name several Obama policies that hurt. He's the most anti-business President I've seen in my lifetime.

Increased taxes on corporations, increased taxes on individual income for those making over 450K a year, burdening our industry with Commie Care with either forcing them to provide coverage for their employees or fining them. More burdensome IRS reporting because of Commie Care, attacking businesses such as the Roll-Your-Own cigarette shops which had to close down, same with the American Indians who used to sell their products via US mail, the several attacks on Gibson Guitar, The Gulf oil drilling and all the industries around it that they fed, the coal industry, the energy industry, the credit card industry and the list goes on and on.

With Reagan, Bush and even Clinton, you can at least point to some presidential action that was responsible for an improved economy. You can't do that with DumBama. Most all of his policies were against business--not for it.

Increasing taxes on businesses does not necessarily hurt businesses. It depends on the level they start and end up at. The Lafer curve is evidence of that.

Reagan increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Clinton increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Now I'm not saying that's evidence of causation, it's not. But it does show that the economy can boom following tax increases. What I am saying is you're an idiot for making the general claim that raising taxes on businesses hurts the economy. You have no proof of causation to back that idiocy up.

Reagan did raise some taxes, but he lowered others. Clinton did raise taxes, but he decreased taxes on capital gains which resulted in more investments in the market.

View attachment 70078

Maybe before you start your usual liberal insult fest, perhaps you should understand WTF you're talking about in the first place. I swear, trying to have an adult discussion with a liberal is nearly impossible.

Thanks for posting a chart which displays what I said -- Reagan raised rates (1983) as did Clinton (1993).

Wow...you looked at that chart and saw Reagan as raising taxes? Seriously?

It is amazing how the liberal mind works, isn't it?

You can tell a liberal the sky is blue, but when they look at it, they see orange, and they'll argue with you until next Christmas.

 

[Faun]

Who knows what your point is? Reagan too had a job approval close to 70% in his first year. He was still where Obama is today at this same point in his presidency.

Reagan's approval rating started out around 50% and then dropped to around 40% because of the way he addressed the Stagflation left behind by Jimmy Carter led to high unemployment initially. By his third year in office his economic policies were leading to steady job growth and economic growth and his approval ratings kept going up until they reached the 70% levels you refer to.

Reagan's approval ratings took a major hit at this time in his second term because of the Iran-Contra scandal but had returned to 60% by the end of his Presidency. Why? Because Reagan's economic policies WORKED and people knew it. Don't hold your breath waiting for a last year Barry surge...he doesn't have any economic policies in place to improve the economy or create jobs...he's running out the string and doesn't even care at this point.

Great, more bullshit.

In reality, Reagan's job approval hit 68% just a few months into his presidency.

How is what I said "bullshit"? Look at your own graph! Reagan's approval ratings plummeted BECAUSE of the policies that he implemented to deal with the Stagflation he inherited from Jimmy Carter only to slowly but surely rise again as Reagan's economic policies grew the economy and unemployment decreased. That major dip going into 1987 was because of Iran-Contra...not because of Reagan's economic policies.

Your post was bullshit because in response to me posting how Reagan's JAR was close to 70% in his first year, you posted his JAR hit 70% "by his third year."

It wasn't his third year. Just a few months into his presidency, his JAR was almost 70%.

Your word comprehension skills are about as good as your memory of the Reagan years, Faun...I didn't say that Reagan hit 70% approval rating his third year. What I SAID was this: "By his third year in office his economic policies were leading to steady job growth and economic growth and his approval ratings kept going up until they reached the 70% levels you refer to."

His policies, like all presidents, either help or hinder job growth. I doubt it's possible to identify which policies helped or hurt. Same holds true with Reagan.

You can't come up with any that helped...because Obama really didn't have any! I can come up with several that hurt. The ACA was not good for jobs. The Obama Stimulus created so few jobs that they had to fudge the numbers with "jobs created or saved". His proposed Cap & Trade policy (that was only stopped because the GOP took back control of Congress!) would have been a jobs killer! His proposed EPA regulations for carbon based emissions would have also been a disaster for the economy.

No, you can name bullshit. That's all you do. You can't actually prove his policies hurt employment growth. For example, you cite ACA as a job killer when in fact, the single industry posting the biggest gains under Obama has been in healthcare.

I'm "thrilled" for those in the healthcare industry, Faun but that doesn't mean that the ACA wasn't a job killer! Show me a study that illustrates the ACA creates jobs! Show me a study that says that Cap & Trade legislation would create jobs! Show me a study that the Obama Stimulus created jobs! Show me a study that shows opposing the Keystone pipeline created jobs! Show me a study that shows imposing a drilling moratorium on all offshore drilling in the Gulf even shallow water drilling following the deep water spill created jobs!

Holyfuckingshit!

Now you're citing policies which never went into effect.

Again, there's no way of determining which policies hurt and which policies helped. There are no objective studies. There's nothing but opinion.

But under Obama's policies, unemployment has dropped from 7.8% when he started and a post recession peak of 10% -- to 5%.

Was Barack Obama calling for Cap & Trade legislation or not, Faun? I can show you video of him asking for that if you'd like.
What people like you can't seem to grasp is that the people who run the Private Sector make business decisions based on what they see happening not next week...but next year or two years or even five years down the road. When Obama was pushing for Cap & Trade legislation every single business leader out there had to project what that would mean to THEIR bottom line! If you increase the energy costs of doing business here in the United States by a substantial amount it makes everyone recalculate planned growth. You're not going to build a factory here...if you can build it somewhere else and have much lower costs. I'm sorry but you're not going to invest millions of dollars for something that isn't economically feasible. When Barry called for Cap & Trade it slammed the brakes on Private Sector investment. If he had a clue about economics he would have grasped that concept but he doesn't...nor do the people who make up his inner circle.

You said, "by his third year in office his economic policies were leading to steady job growth and economic growth and his approval ratings kept going up until they reached the 70% levels you refer to."

That remains bullshit. Again, the near 70% JAR I referred to came just a few months into his presidency.

As far as Cap & Trade ... you're fucking retarded. We're talking about the effects Obama's policies have had on the economy. Since Cap & Trade never went into effect, it had absolutely no impact on the economy.

It's too bad for you that you're so butthurt because his JAR is on par with Reagan's at this same point in Reagan's presidency. But.... c'est la vie.

 

[Faun]

His policies, like all presidents, either help or hinder job growth. I doubt it's possible to identify which policies helped or hurt. Same holds true with Reagan.

I can name several Obama policies that hurt. He's the most anti-business President I've seen in my lifetime.

Increased taxes on corporations, increased taxes on individual income for those making over 450K a year, burdening our industry with Commie Care with either forcing them to provide coverage for their employees or fining them. More burdensome IRS reporting because of Commie Care, attacking businesses such as the Roll-Your-Own cigarette shops which had to close down, same with the American Indians who used to sell their products via US mail, the several attacks on Gibson Guitar, The Gulf oil drilling and all the industries around it that they fed, the coal industry, the energy industry, the credit card industry and the list goes on and on.

With Reagan, Bush and even Clinton, you can at least point to some presidential action that was responsible for an improved economy. You can't do that with DumBama. Most all of his policies were against business--not for it.

Increasing taxes on businesses does not necessarily hurt businesses. It depends on the level they start and end up at. The Lafer curve is evidence of that.

Reagan increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Clinton increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Now I'm not saying that's evidence of causation, it's not. But it does show that the economy can boom following tax increases. What I am saying is you're an idiot for making the general claim that raising taxes on businesses hurts the economy. You have no proof of causation to back that idiocy up.

Reagan did raise some taxes, but he lowered others. Clinton did raise taxes, but he decreased taxes on capital gains which resulted in more investments in the market.

View attachment 70078

Maybe before you start your usual liberal insult fest, perhaps you should understand WTF you're talking about in the first place. I swear, trying to have an adult discussion with a liberal is nearly impossible.

Thanks for posting a chart which displays what I said -- Reagan raised rates (1983) as did Clinton (1993).

Wow...you looked at that chart and saw Reagan as raising taxes? Seriously?

I see him increasing them in 1983 after lowering them too much prior to that. I have no idea what you see.

 

[Geaux4it]

They could of left dip shit Obama a turn key economy and he would of destroyed it because a good economy is important, therefore, it must be destroyed

-Geaux

 

[Faun]

They could of left dip shit Obama a turn key economy and he would of destroyed it because a good economy is important, therefore, it must be destroyed

-Geaux

Sounds like you're thinking of Bush. He's the one who started with an unemployment rate of 4.2% and ended at 7.8%. Whereas Obama started at 7.8% and we're currently down to 5.0%.

 

[Mac1958]

Obama was handed a massive, flaming pile of shit, and no amount of politic rhetoric will ever be able to change that.

We'll never know what he would have done in more normal circumstances, but we do know that the effects of the Meltdown are still distorting the economy.
.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Cutting taxes for the wealthy. The Bush Doctrine. Trickle down.
Bush was a conservative through and through. His policies are the same exact policies the GOP follows today. That's why he followed them. He was indoctrinated into them for decades. Believe me, it was a shock to him the disasters they caused. That's why the GOP is adrift today. They shot their wad and now they have nothing but trickery and suppression.

What's laughable about this post, R-Derp...is how it manages to totally ignore what's taken place for the last seven and a half years. The "indoctrination" that's on display here is the Progressive mantra that big government is the answer to all our problems! When far left liberals were given political power...the legislation that they pushed through simply didn't work and now you're forced to spend all of your time blaming Bush for Barry's shortcomings...like it was W. that gave us Solyndra, Fast & Furious, the GM bailout, Shovel Ready Jobs, the "JV team", an Affordable Care Act that isn't affordable for the Middle Class, Benghazi, the Iran nuclear deal, Russian aggression and the worst recovery from a recession in modern economic history!

Yeah, I guess that's why Obama's job approval is the same as Reagan's at this point in his presidency, according to Gallup.

All that proves is that you folks on the left have so much invested in Barry's "success" that you're willing to approve of him even when he's underachieved at every turn, Faun. You'll spend the next twenty years pushing the Obama "myth" that he was a great President even as his successors struggle to fix all of the things that he's messed up.

Ummm... Liberals only comprise a mere ¼ of the population. Clearly, Obama enjoys success from many moderates and even some conservatives as well.

But thanks for admitting you'll make up any bullshit to prop up your vacuous positions.

Much appreciated.

What's amusing is that the only "success" Barry seems to be enjoying at the moment is his job approval, Faun. What else is working for him? Can you name an economic plan to put people back to work that he's the author of? Can you name a spot on the globe that isn't more of a problem NOW than it was when George W. Bush left office? Can you name an Administration was less transparent than this one? Can you name a President who has fostered more of a partisan divide than this one?

Can you name an economic plan to put people back to work that he's the author of?

The American Jobs Act. Scored by the CBO to have lowered the deficit by $6 billion, lowered unemployment nearly .7% and added 1.4% to GDP growth all in 2012.
Now, name one jobs/growth plan put forth by the Repubs that was scored and rated similarly.

Would full passage of Obama’s Jobs Act have added another million jobs?

"Had Congress enacted the full AJA, we project real GDP growth for 2012 would have been 1.4 percentage points higher, bringing growth to 3.4 percent relative to the Congressional Budget Office’s baseline forecast. Nonfarm payroll employment would be more than 1.6 million jobs higher by the end of 2012, and as a result, the unemployment rate would be 0.5 to 0.7percentage points lower..

 

[healthmyths]

What's laughable about this post, R-Derp...is how it manages to totally ignore what's taken place for the last seven and a half years. The "indoctrination" that's on display here is the Progressive mantra that big government is the answer to all our problems! When far left liberals were given political power...the legislation that they pushed through simply didn't work and now you're forced to spend all of your time blaming Bush for Barry's shortcomings...like it was W. that gave us Solyndra, Fast & Furious, the GM bailout, Shovel Ready Jobs, the "JV team", an Affordable Care Act that isn't affordable for the Middle Class, Benghazi, the Iran nuclear deal, Russian aggression and the worst recovery from a recession in modern economic history!

Yeah, I guess that's why Obama's job approval is the same as Reagan's at this point in his presidency, according to Gallup.

All that proves is that you folks on the left have so much invested in Barry's "success" that you're willing to approve of him even when he's underachieved at every turn, Faun. You'll spend the next twenty years pushing the Obama "myth" that he was a great President even as his successors struggle to fix all of the things that he's messed up.

Ummm... Liberals only comprise a mere ¼ of the population. Clearly, Obama enjoys success from many moderates and even some conservatives as well.

But thanks for admitting you'll make up any bullshit to prop up your vacuous positions.

Much appreciated.

What's amusing is that the only "success" Barry seems to be enjoying at the moment is his job approval, Faun. What else is working for him? Can you name an economic plan to put people back to work that he's the author of? Can you name a spot on the globe that isn't more of a problem NOW than it was when George W. Bush left office? Can you name an Administration was less transparent than this one? Can you name a President who has fostered more of a partisan divide than this one?

Can you name an economic plan to put people back to work that he's the author of?

The American Jobs Act. Scored by the CBO to have lowered the deficit by $6 billion, lowered unemployment nearly .7% and added 1.4% to GDP growth all in 2012.
Now, name one jobs/growth plan put forth by the Repubs that was scored and rated similarly.

Would full passage of Obama’s Jobs Act have added another million jobs?

"Had Congress enacted the full AJA, we project real GDP growth for 2012 would have been 1.4 percentage points higher, bringing growth to 3.4 percent relative to the Congressional Budget Office’s baseline forecast. Nonfarm payroll employment would be more than 1.6 million jobs higher by the end of 2012, and as a result, the unemployment rate would be 0.5 to 0.7percentage points lower..

Obama Jokes at Jobs Council: 'Shovel-Ready Was Not as Shovel-Ready as We Expected'
Obama Jokes at Jobs Council: 'Shovel-Ready Was Not as Shovel-Ready as We Expected'

 

[gipper]

Obama was handed a massive, flaming pile of shit, and no amount of politic rhetoric will ever be able to change that.

We'll never know what he would have done in more normal circumstances, but we do know that the effects of the Meltdown are still distorting the economy.
.

Agreed. He was handed a mess. Unfortunately, instead of fixing the problems he did nothing. The Big Banks are bigger and more powerful today than before the crash. The a-holes at the banks and Wall Street crashed the economy, yet no one was prosecuted....in fact, they have benefited thanks to Obama. The government was actively involved in the blowing up real estate bubble and yet, no one in government was prosecuted or suffered any consequences for their fraud...thanks again to Obama.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yeah, I guess that's why Obama's job approval is the same as Reagan's at this point in his presidency, according to Gallup.

All that proves is that you folks on the left have so much invested in Barry's "success" that you're willing to approve of him even when he's underachieved at every turn, Faun. You'll spend the next twenty years pushing the Obama "myth" that he was a great President even as his successors struggle to fix all of the things that he's messed up.

Ummm... Liberals only comprise a mere ¼ of the population. Clearly, Obama enjoys success from many moderates and even some conservatives as well.

But thanks for admitting you'll make up any bullshit to prop up your vacuous positions.

Much appreciated.

What's amusing is that the only "success" Barry seems to be enjoying at the moment is his job approval, Faun. What else is working for him? Can you name an economic plan to put people back to work that he's the author of? Can you name a spot on the globe that isn't more of a problem NOW than it was when George W. Bush left office? Can you name an Administration was less transparent than this one? Can you name a President who has fostered more of a partisan divide than this one?

Can you name an economic plan to put people back to work that he's the author of?

The American Jobs Act. Scored by the CBO to have lowered the deficit by $6 billion, lowered unemployment nearly .7% and added 1.4% to GDP growth all in 2012.
Now, name one jobs/growth plan put forth by the Repubs that was scored and rated similarly.

Would full passage of Obama’s Jobs Act have added another million jobs?

"Had Congress enacted the full AJA, we project real GDP growth for 2012 would have been 1.4 percentage points higher, bringing growth to 3.4 percent relative to the Congressional Budget Office’s baseline forecast. Nonfarm payroll employment would be more than 1.6 million jobs higher by the end of 2012, and as a result, the unemployment rate would be 0.5 to 0.7percentage points lower..

Obama Jokes at Jobs Council: 'Shovel-Ready Was Not as Shovel-Ready as We Expected'
Obama Jokes at Jobs Council: 'Shovel-Ready Wasn't Not as Shovel-Ready as We Expected'

Imagine if the Repubs had decided to work on that. They could have added provisions for streamlining the implementation of the various components of the plan. But why would they? Why would they want to give Obama a bump in an election year? They don't because they put party over people.
What Republican plan was scored and found to be as robust? None. They haven't even attempted anything. Why? So morons like those on this thread can bitch about Obama of course.
The Repubs in hindsight, might have been better served working with Obama as the failings of the establishment are tearing them apart. If they had thrown a few bones out there and promoted a little more general prosperity, they may be in a better position then they find themselves in.

 

[Oldstyle]

I can name several Obama policies that hurt. He's the most anti-business President I've seen in my lifetime.

Increased taxes on corporations, increased taxes on individual income for those making over 450K a year, burdening our industry with Commie Care with either forcing them to provide coverage for their employees or fining them. More burdensome IRS reporting because of Commie Care, attacking businesses such as the Roll-Your-Own cigarette shops which had to close down, same with the American Indians who used to sell their products via US mail, the several attacks on Gibson Guitar, The Gulf oil drilling and all the industries around it that they fed, the coal industry, the energy industry, the credit card industry and the list goes on and on.

With Reagan, Bush and even Clinton, you can at least point to some presidential action that was responsible for an improved economy. You can't do that with DumBama. Most all of his policies were against business--not for it.

Increasing taxes on businesses does not necessarily hurt businesses. It depends on the level they start and end up at. The Lafer curve is evidence of that.

Reagan increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Clinton increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Now I'm not saying that's evidence of causation, it's not. But it does show that the economy can boom following tax increases. What I am saying is you're an idiot for making the general claim that raising taxes on businesses hurts the economy. You have no proof of causation to back that idiocy up.

Reagan did raise some taxes, but he lowered others. Clinton did raise taxes, but he decreased taxes on capital gains which resulted in more investments in the market.

View attachment 70078

Maybe before you start your usual liberal insult fest, perhaps you should understand WTF you're talking about in the first place. I swear, trying to have an adult discussion with a liberal is nearly impossible.

Thanks for posting a chart which displays what I said -- Reagan raised rates (1983) as did Clinton (1993).

Wow...you looked at that chart and saw Reagan as raising taxes? Seriously?

I see him increasing them in 1983 after lowering them too much prior to that. I have no idea what you see.

Ah, so you can see that he lowered them earlier? "Too much" as you put it? So was Reagan a tax raiser if he raised them slightly only after lowering them "too much"? Your own post and your own graph shows that he obviously wasn't!

So let's look at Bill Clinton. Did his tax raises stimulate the economy as you've claimed...or did the Dot Com Boom stimulate the economy allowing Clinton to raise taxes and did those tax increases eventually lead to a slowing of the economy? Do you know that Clinton himself ended up realizing he probably raised taxes to much? Do you not realize that Clinton now says we should cut the corporate tax rate?
Even Bill Clinton says taxes too high, would repeal his 35% corporate rate

 

[Faun]

Increasing taxes on businesses does not necessarily hurt businesses. It depends on the level they start and end up at. The Lafer curve is evidence of that.

Reagan increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Clinton increased taxes on businesses -- the economy boomed.

Now I'm not saying that's evidence of causation, it's not. But it does show that the economy can boom following tax increases. What I am saying is you're an idiot for making the general claim that raising taxes on businesses hurts the economy. You have no proof of causation to back that idiocy up.

Reagan did raise some taxes, but he lowered others. Clinton did raise taxes, but he decreased taxes on capital gains which resulted in more investments in the market.

View attachment 70078

Maybe before you start your usual liberal insult fest, perhaps you should understand WTF you're talking about in the first place. I swear, trying to have an adult discussion with a liberal is nearly impossible.

Thanks for posting a chart which displays what I said -- Reagan raised rates (1983) as did Clinton (1993).

Wow...you looked at that chart and saw Reagan as raising taxes? Seriously?

I see him increasing them in 1983 after lowering them too much prior to that. I have no idea what you see.

Ah, so you can see that he lowered them earlier? "Too much" as you put it? So was Reagan a tax raiser if he raised them slightly only after lowering them "too much"? Your own post and your own graph shows that he obviously wasn't!

So let's look at Bill Clinton. Did his tax raises stimulate the economy as you've claimed...or did the Dot Com Boom stimulate the economy allowing Clinton to raise taxes and did those tax increases eventually lead to a slowing of the economy? Do you know that Clinton himself ended up realizing he probably raised taxes to much? Do you not realize that Clinton now says we should cut the corporate tax rate?
Even Bill Clinton says taxes too high, would repeal his 35% corporate rate

More bullshit. Wht you describe as raising them "slightly," was in fact...

Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together"constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010​

 

[Oldstyle]

Reagan's approval rating started out around 50% and then dropped to around 40% because of the way he addressed the Stagflation left behind by Jimmy Carter led to high unemployment initially. By his third year in office his economic policies were leading to steady job growth and economic growth and his approval ratings kept going up until they reached the 70% levels you refer to.

Reagan's approval ratings took a major hit at this time in his second term because of the Iran-Contra scandal but had returned to 60% by the end of his Presidency. Why? Because Reagan's economic policies WORKED and people knew it. Don't hold your breath waiting for a last year Barry surge...he doesn't have any economic policies in place to improve the economy or create jobs...he's running out the string and doesn't even care at this point.

Great, more bullshit.

In reality, Reagan's job approval hit 68% just a few months into his presidency.

How is what I said "bullshit"? Look at your own graph! Reagan's approval ratings plummeted BECAUSE of the policies that he implemented to deal with the Stagflation he inherited from Jimmy Carter only to slowly but surely rise again as Reagan's economic policies grew the economy and unemployment decreased. That major dip going into 1987 was because of Iran-Contra...not because of Reagan's economic policies.

Your post was bullshit because in response to me posting how Reagan's JAR was close to 70% in his first year, you posted his JAR hit 70% "by his third year."

It wasn't his third year. Just a few months into his presidency, his JAR was almost 70%.

Your word comprehension skills are about as good as your memory of the Reagan years, Faun...I didn't say that Reagan hit 70% approval rating his third year. What I SAID was this: "By his third year in office his economic policies were leading to steady job growth and economic growth and his approval ratings kept going up until they reached the 70% levels you refer to."

You can't come up with any that helped...because Obama really didn't have any! I can come up with several that hurt. The ACA was not good for jobs. The Obama Stimulus created so few jobs that they had to fudge the numbers with "jobs created or saved". His proposed Cap & Trade policy (that was only stopped because the GOP took back control of Congress!) would have been a jobs killer! His proposed EPA regulations for carbon based emissions would have also been a disaster for the economy.

No, you can name bullshit. That's all you do. You can't actually prove his policies hurt employment growth. For example, you cite ACA as a job killer when in fact, the single industry posting the biggest gains under Obama has been in healthcare.

I'm "thrilled" for those in the healthcare industry, Faun but that doesn't mean that the ACA wasn't a job killer! Show me a study that illustrates the ACA creates jobs! Show me a study that says that Cap & Trade legislation would create jobs! Show me a study that the Obama Stimulus created jobs! Show me a study that shows opposing the Keystone pipeline created jobs! Show me a study that shows imposing a drilling moratorium on all offshore drilling in the Gulf even shallow water drilling following the deep water spill created jobs!

Holyfuckingshit!

Now you're citing policies which never went into effect.

Again, there's no way of determining which policies hurt and which policies helped. There are no objective studies. There's nothing but opinion.

But under Obama's policies, unemployment has dropped from 7.8% when he started and a post recession peak of 10% -- to 5%.

Was Barack Obama calling for Cap & Trade legislation or not, Faun? I can show you video of him asking for that if you'd like.
What people like you can't seem to grasp is that the people who run the Private Sector make business decisions based on what they see happening not next week...but next year or two years or even five years down the road. When Obama was pushing for Cap & Trade legislation every single business leader out there had to project what that would mean to THEIR bottom line! If you increase the energy costs of doing business here in the United States by a substantial amount it makes everyone recalculate planned growth. You're not going to build a factory here...if you can build it somewhere else and have much lower costs. I'm sorry but you're not going to invest millions of dollars for something that isn't economically feasible. When Barry called for Cap & Trade it slammed the brakes on Private Sector investment. If he had a clue about economics he would have grasped that concept but he doesn't...nor do the people who make up his inner circle.

You said, "by his third year in office his economic policies were leading to steady job growth and economic growth and his approval ratings kept going up until they reached the 70% levels you refer to."

That remains bullshit. Again, the near 70% JAR I referred to came just a few months into his presidency.

As far as Cap & Trade ... you're fucking retarded. We're talking about the effects Obama's policies have had on the economy. Since Cap & Trade never went into effect, it had absolutely no impact on the economy.

It's too bad for you that you're so butthurt because his JAR is on par with Reagan's at this same point in Reagan's presidency. But.... c'est la vie.

That's what I love about people like you, Faun! You're absolutely clueless about how the Private Sector functions. Every time that government proposes legislation it impacts the economy. It has to even if it hasn't been passed. The very threat of that happening at some point in the future is going to affect decisions that are made now. The threat of Cap & Trade would make every single CEO that is deciding whether to expand here in the US or expand somewhere else lean towards expansion elsewhere. You can't grasp that...yet you blame the GOP for jobs going overseas?

Another example is deep water drilling platforms. The moratorium on drilling permits that the Obama Administration levied following the Gulf oil spill has ended but the affect of that moratorium was that platforms were moved from the Gulf of Mexico down to the coast of Brazil and are not coming back for years if ever. That happened because exploration executives had no idea how long Obama's little band of zealots would continue to punish the oil and natural gas exploration industry and were forced to made a decision to either lose money as their platforms sat idle...or lose money by moving them. Either way that's an Obama policy that prompted job losses.

 

[Oldstyle]

Reagan did raise some taxes, but he lowered others. Clinton did raise taxes, but he decreased taxes on capital gains which resulted in more investments in the market.

View attachment 70078

Maybe before you start your usual liberal insult fest, perhaps you should understand WTF you're talking about in the first place. I swear, trying to have an adult discussion with a liberal is nearly impossible.

Thanks for posting a chart which displays what I said -- Reagan raised rates (1983) as did Clinton (1993).

Wow...you looked at that chart and saw Reagan as raising taxes? Seriously?

I see him increasing them in 1983 after lowering them too much prior to that. I have no idea what you see.

Ah, so you can see that he lowered them earlier? "Too much" as you put it? So was Reagan a tax raiser if he raised them slightly only after lowering them "too much"? Your own post and your own graph shows that he obviously wasn't!

So let's look at Bill Clinton. Did his tax raises stimulate the economy as you've claimed...or did the Dot Com Boom stimulate the economy allowing Clinton to raise taxes and did those tax increases eventually lead to a slowing of the economy? Do you know that Clinton himself ended up realizing he probably raised taxes to much? Do you not realize that Clinton now says we should cut the corporate tax rate?
Even Bill Clinton says taxes too high, would repeal his 35% corporate rate

More bullshit. Wht you describe as raising them "slightly," was in fact...

Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together"constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010​

Simple math here, Faun! So simple even a progressive like you shouldn't have a problem with it!

If you take Reagan's tax cuts and compare them to his tax raises...which is substantially more than the other?

 

[Oldstyle]

I notice you don't want to address Bill Clinton saying we should cut corporate tax rates, Faun...why is that?

 

[Faun]

Thanks for posting a chart which displays what I said -- Reagan raised rates (1983) as did Clinton (1993).

Wow...you looked at that chart and saw Reagan as raising taxes? Seriously?

I see him increasing them in 1983 after lowering them too much prior to that. I have no idea what you see.

Ah, so you can see that he lowered them earlier? "Too much" as you put it? So was Reagan a tax raiser if he raised them slightly only after lowering them "too much"? Your own post and your own graph shows that he obviously wasn't!

So let's look at Bill Clinton. Did his tax raises stimulate the economy as you've claimed...or did the Dot Com Boom stimulate the economy allowing Clinton to raise taxes and did those tax increases eventually lead to a slowing of the economy? Do you know that Clinton himself ended up realizing he probably raised taxes to much? Do you not realize that Clinton now says we should cut the corporate tax rate?
Even Bill Clinton says taxes too high, would repeal his 35% corporate rate

More bullshit. Wht you describe as raising them "slightly," was in fact...

Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together"constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010​

Simple math here, Faun! So simple even a progressive like you shouldn't have a problem with it!

If you take Reagan's tax cuts and compare them to his tax raises...which is substantially more than the other?

Holyfuckingshit!

Look at the chart Ray From Cleveland posted yesterday. While the decrease was bigger than the increase... the same is true about the corporate tax rate under Obama.

That's why the two of you look like complete idiots. Reagan lowered corporate taxes in a recession and then raised them back to about 27% after the recession ended. You credit that for a booming economy which followed. Obama did exactly the same thing. Ray moronically cites that as a failure for Obama.

 

[Jroc]

Reagan did raise some taxes, but he lowered others. Clinton did raise taxes, but he decreased taxes on capital gains which resulted in more investments in the market.

View attachment 70078

Maybe before you start your usual liberal insult fest, perhaps you should understand WTF you're talking about in the first place. I swear, trying to have an adult discussion with a liberal is nearly impossible.

Thanks for posting a chart which displays what I said -- Reagan raised rates (1983) as did Clinton (1993).

Wow...you looked at that chart and saw Reagan as raising taxes? Seriously?

I see him increasing them in 1983 after lowering them too much prior to that. I have no idea what you see.

Ah, so you can see that he lowered them earlier? "Too much" as you put it? So was Reagan a tax raiser if he raised them slightly only after lowering them "too much"? Your own post and your own graph shows that he obviously wasn't!

So let's look at Bill Clinton. Did his tax raises stimulate the economy as you've claimed...or did the Dot Com Boom stimulate the economy allowing Clinton to raise taxes and did those tax increases eventually lead to a slowing of the economy? Do you know that Clinton himself ended up realizing he probably raised taxes to much? Do you not realize that Clinton now says we should cut the corporate tax rate?
Even Bill Clinton says taxes too high, would repeal his 35% corporate rate

More bullshit. Wht you describe as raising them "slightly," was in fact...

Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together"constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010​

You libs and your stupid talking points...Reagan reformed the tax code most of what you idiots call "tax increases" where elimination of crony tax loopholes

The Real Reagan Economic Record: Responsible and Successful Fiscal Policy

Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times? The real story

 

[Faun]

I notice you don't want to address Bill Clinton saying we should cut corporate tax rates, Faun...why is that?

Because I don't speak for Bill Clinton. Why he feels 35% is too high whereas it wasn't too high in 1993 is for him to say.

 

[Oldstyle]

I notice you don't want to address Bill Clinton saying we should cut corporate tax rates, Faun...why is that?

Because I don't speak for Bill Clinton. Why he feels 35% is too high whereas it wasn't too high in 1993 is for him to say.

So you can't come up with an Obama policy that created jobs or grew the economy...and you don't have a clue why Bill Clinton wants to cut corporate taxes? Why is it that you're here again, Faun?

 

[Oldstyle]

You held up Bill Clinton as the shining example of how raising taxes makes an economy "boom" only to have me cite Bill Clinton calling for corporate tax cuts to make the economy boom. How bad does THAT sting?