Will we let Ukraine die?

[Stratford57]

Could it be Obama is actually listening to the American people, when they tell him not to get involved in Ukraine?

He certainly did cause problems in Ukraine, when he instigated the coup there.

---
You don't sound like a Libertarian, or are you the selfish type?
Obama did not "instigate" the Ukrainian takeover in Kiev, but he may have assisted their efforts to rid the corrupt Putin ass-kissing Yanukovich Russian puppet who was preventing Ukrainians from joining the EU like Poland did.
In case you did not know, Poland is now one of the more successful EU nations (economically), not like Greece.

You, the troll, don't speak for the whole country! Eastern part of Ukraine (where I am from) doesn't care about joining the EU and wants to join the Custom Union with Belarus', Russia and Kazakhstan. That's why official Kiev has pulled its troops to Dobbass and started the war against its own people.

According to you the former inspector general of the German army and chair of the NATO military council, Harald Kujat must have been paid by Putin too?
In a talk show on German television hosted by Gunther Jauch, Kujat described it as “idiotic” for the West to consider a military solution: if Russia wanted, it could end the war within 48 hours by sending regular troops in to Ukraine. The other guests on the show including Martin Shulz, President of the European Parliament, kept talking about "Russian aggression".

General Kujat doesn't buy it. Here's what he said:

• It's lot of speculation. Proof of Russia's involvement with regular force has not come to my attention so far.

• For example, the announcement of the Ukrainian President that 23 Russian armed vehicles have been destroyed on Ukrainian soil. There are no photos of surviving Russian soldiers nor of killed Russian soldiers.

• We have been shown five satellite pictures as a proof that Russian Forces are in the Ukraine. Three of them were marked officially as "on Russian territory". Two of them are marked as "on Ukraine territory". The Russian pictures are marked with the exact location, while the Ukrainian ones have no mention of location and coordinates.

• We have to be very careful about what the Ukraine and the West says.

Choose any link you want:

Ex-general NATO has failed blatantly in Ukraine Europe DW.COM 03.09.2014
Top German General Western Evidence of Russian Invasion is Baloney
(video)
German media backs confrontation with Russia over Ukraine - World Socialist Web Site

 

[PK1]

Could it be Obama is actually listening to the American people, when they tell him not to get involved in Ukraine?

He certainly did cause problems in Ukraine, when he instigated the coup there.

---
You don't sound like a Libertarian, or are you the selfish type?
Obama did not "instigate" the Ukrainian takeover in Kiev, but he may have assisted their efforts to rid the corrupt Putin ass-kissing Yanukovich Russian puppet who was preventing Ukrainians from joining the EU like Poland did.
In case you did not know, Poland is now one of the more successful EU nations (economically), not like Greece.

You, the troll, don't speak for the whole country! Eastern part of Ukraine (where I am from) doesn't care about joining the EU and wants to join the Custom Union with Belarus', Russia and Kazakhstan. That's why official Kiev has pulled its troops to Dobbass and started the war against its own people.

According to you the former inspector general of the German army and chair of the NATO military council, Harald Kujat must have been paid by Putin too?
In a talk show on German television hosted by Gunther Jauch, Kujat described it as “idiotic” for the West to consider a military solution: if Russia wanted, it could end the war within 48 hours by sending regular troops in to Ukraine. The other guests on the show including Martin Shulz, President of the European Parliament, kept talking about "Russian aggression".

General Kujat doesn't buy it. Here's what he said:

• It's lot of speculation. Proof of Russia's involvement with regular force has not come to my attention so far.

• For example, the announcement of the Ukrainian President that 23 Russian armed vehicles have been destroyed on Ukrainian soil. There are no photos of surviving Russian soldiers nor of killed Russian soldiers.

• We have been shown five satellite pictures as a proof that Russian Forces are in the Ukraine. Three of them were marked officially as "on Russian territory". Two of them are marked as "on Ukraine territory". The Russian pictures are marked with the exact location, while the Ukrainian ones have no mention of location and coordinates.

• We have to be very careful about what the Ukraine and the West says.

Choose any link you want:

Ex-general NATO has failed blatantly in Ukraine Europe DW.COM 03.09.2014
Top German General Western Evidence of Russian Invasion is Baloney
(video)
German media backs confrontation with Russia over Ukraine - World Socialist Web Site

---
So, you're a RUSSIAN separatist?
Why don't you go to Russia and leave Ukraine alone?
Ukrainians do not want Russian interference with their independent decision making, like joining EU.
Stop your Russian/Putin nationalistic fascism!

New poll shows eastern Ukraine s separatists are wrong - The Washington Post

According to last year's "poll by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, a vast majority of those living in Ukraine -- both in the restive east and more nationalist west -- want the country's borders to remain the same, despite the many political and social tensions that have come to the surface in recent months.
Only 18 percent of those surveyed in eastern Ukraine think the country's regions should be allowed to secede -- a statistic that serves as something of a rebuke to Pushilin and his fellow separatists."

 

[Stratford57]

Pk1, you are working alone today? Where are your clones Lisitsyn, Amigo, Pitstewart, Jack London etc.? Or may be all above and yourself are the same person?

Be careful using the word "separatist" on the USA Message Board. Americans have just celebrated their independence from Great Britain and the fathers of the USA, who inspirited the separation from Great Britain (Washington, Jefferson, Adams etc. ), can be also called separatists. The USA have been honoring them for several centuries.

P.S. I know what Eastern Ukraine wants, I don't need your stupid polls for that, I simply live there.

 

[PK1]

Pk1, you are working alone today? Where are your clones Lisitsyn, Amigo, Pitstewart, Jack London etc.? Or may be all above and yourself are the same person?

Be careful using the word "separatist" on the USA Message Board. Americans have just celebrated their independence from Great Britain and the fathers of the USA, who inspirited the separation from Great Britain (Washington, Jefferson, Adams etc. ), can be also called separatists. The USA have been honoring them for several centuries.

P.S. I know what Eastern Ukraine wants, I don't need your stupid polls for that, I simply live there.

---
Stratford, are you sure you don't live in St. Petersburg and work as a trolling propagandist for popa Putin?

The USA people are not that stupid and realize what FREEDOM is, which is not what exists in Russia or in Ukraine's Donbass region controlled and financed by RUSSIA.
See, they appreciate INDEPENDENCE and can understand why Ukrainians also want INDEPENDENCE from their tormentors, just like 200+ years ago.
And why Ukrainians rather be like English speaking people who have freedom.

BTW, i don't know the posters you listed. Good try.

 

[Sbiker]

So, you're a RUSSIAN separatist?
Why don't you go to Russia and leave Ukraine alone?
Ukrainians do not want Russian interference with their independent decision making, like joining EU.
Stop your Russian/Putin nationalistic fascism!

So, you're continue to dicriminate people by nationality here? And should continie a claiming of nazi absence in Ukraine???

BTW, you're right. There no any Ukraine as state in history. Only NovoRUSSIA, maloRUSSIA, and Galitchina. You just want a lacy trousers and EU. Take both of lacy trousers and villages, full of raguli, and go to EU. You would'nt hide from army recruitment, you'll have an permit to EU - what are your waiting for?

 

[Sbiker]

Ukrainians also want INDEPENDENCE from their tormentors, just like 200+ years ago.

USA people took their independence by force of weapon. You, "ukrainians" can take your "independence" free. Just take your legs in your arms and go to EU immediate What? Donbass??? You appreciate cost of small and ruined Donbass higher than your independence? Excuse me, for free nations their independence cost much more, than other things. And you, galizeis, permanently was slaves and still have a slave psychology, how can you consider "freedom" and "independence"?

 

[PK1]

So, you're a RUSSIAN separatist?
Why don't you go to Russia and leave Ukraine alone?
Ukrainians do not want Russian interference with their independent decision making, like joining EU.
Stop your Russian/Putin nationalistic fascism!

So, you're continue to dicriminate people by nationality here? And should continie a claiming of nazi absence in Ukraine???

BTW, you're right. There no any Ukraine as state in history. Only NovoRUSSIA, maloRUSSIA, and Galitchina. You just want a lacy trousers and EU. Take both of lacy trousers and villages, full of raguli, and go to EU. You would'nt hide from army recruitment, you'll have an permit to EU - what are your waiting for?

---
You say there is no state of Ukraine in history? Where have you been in the past 24 years?

I am not discriminating on basis of nationality; I have many Russian friends who are intelligent decent people who want Putin to stop his fascist policies against the Ukrainians and against his own Russian people who want freedom of expression, like Boris Nemtsov did before he was executed outside the Kremlin.
Nemtsov was a highly regarded Russian physicist and former Deputy Prime Minister of Russia who dared to criticize Putin.
Putin promised to find the murderers. Has he? How difficult can that be, with all those security cameras outside the Kremlin walls?

So you see, I am not against Russian people; I am against dictators like Putin who is against individual FREEDOMs and freedom of the PRESS..

 

[PK1]

Ukrainians also want INDEPENDENCE from their tormentors, just like 200+ years ago.

USA people took their independence by force of weapon. You, "ukrainians" can take your "independence" free. Just take your legs in your arms and go to EU immediate What? Donbass??? You appreciate cost of small and ruined Donbass higher than your independence? Excuse me, for free nations their independence cost much more, than other things. And you, galizeis, permanently was slaves and still have a slave psychology, how can you consider "freedom" and "independence"?

---
Why are the Russian separatists afraid of freedoms like free speech? They are acting like Soviet communists:

Citizens who criticize Russian-separatist leadership in Donetsk get tailed by police

"Fears have been further fueled by the recent deportation and beating of Pavel Kanygin, a Russian journalist working for Novaya Gazeta who has been critical of Russia’s involvement in the war.

After covering the anti-war rally in Donetsk on June 15, Kanygin said he was contacted on June 16 by separatist authorities requesting a meeting.

Thinking that the meeting concerned the accreditation he was waiting to receive, Kanygin showed up only to be detained, beaten and ultimately deported. Kanygin has said in several interviews that he believes he was set up and punished for reporting on the anti-war protest."

 

[Sbiker]

So, you're a RUSSIAN separatist?
Why don't you go to Russia and leave Ukraine alone?
Ukrainians do not want Russian interference with their independent decision making, like joining EU.
Stop your Russian/Putin nationalistic fascism!

So, you're continue to dicriminate people by nationality here? And should continie a claiming of nazi absence in Ukraine???

BTW, you're right. There no any Ukraine as state in history. Only NovoRUSSIA, maloRUSSIA, and Galitchina. You just want a lacy trousers and EU. Take both of lacy trousers and villages, full of raguli, and go to EU. You would'nt hide from army recruitment, you'll have an permit to EU - what are your waiting for?

---
You say there is no state of Ukraine in history? Where have you been in the past 24 years?

I am not discriminating on basis of nationality; I have many Russian friends who are intelligent decent people who want Putin to stop his fascist policies against the Ukrainians and against his own Russian people who want freedom of expression, like Boris Nemtsov did before he was executed outside the Kremlin.
Nemtsov was a highly regarded Russian physicist and former Deputy Prime Minister of Russia who dared to criticize Putin.
Putin promised to find the murderers. Has he? How difficult can that be, with all those security cameras outside the Kremlin walls?

So you see, I am not against Russian people; I am against dictators like Putin who is against individual FREEDOMs and freedom of the PRESS..

Who guided murderers to Nemtsov? A Kiev-born girl Anna Duritskaja. So where's the murderer now? On the Ukrainian territory. Offcourse, Putin cannot find murderer of Nemtsov right now He'll just wait, when you, gang of murderers, will eat each other, like spiders in can

 

[Sbiker]

Ukrainians also want INDEPENDENCE from their tormentors, just like 200+ years ago.

USA people took their independence by force of weapon. You, "ukrainians" can take your "independence" free. Just take your legs in your arms and go to EU immediate What? Donbass??? You appreciate cost of small and ruined Donbass higher than your independence? Excuse me, for free nations their independence cost much more, than other things. And you, galizeis, permanently was slaves and still have a slave psychology, how can you consider "freedom" and "independence"?

---
Why are the Russian separatists afraid of freedoms like free speech? They are acting like Soviet communists:

Citizens who criticize Russian-separatist leadership in Donetsk get tailed by police

"Fears have been further fueled by the recent deportation and beating of Pavel Kanygin, a Russian journalist working for Novaya Gazeta who has been critical of Russia’s involvement in the war.

After covering the anti-war rally in Donetsk on June 15, Kanygin said he was contacted on June 16 by separatist authorities requesting a meeting.

Thinking that the meeting concerned the accreditation he was waiting to receive, Kanygin showed up only to be detained, beaten and ultimately deported. Kanygin has said in several interviews that he believes he was set up and punished for reporting on the anti-war protest."

Anything significant except propaganda? No? So, I was completely right. What's in your head, Zo-ombie?

 

[Igrok_]

Of course West should let Ukraine die. It is a trash country hating Russia and trying to use western countries for living at the expense of their help, like it was for centuries due to the russian favor. Western countries don't even know what are the people they are trying to support.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Will we let Ukraine die - The Washington Post
It seems like Ukrainians have no chance to win the war as we are not going to help them. Is Ukraine even worth the efforts? We definitely gave them enough money to help their army yet they keep losing. Perhaps it would be better to forget about Ukraine and let the Russians ravage it? It's not like it has any use anyway since it's the poorest country in the entire Europe.

And what exactly do you propose the United States should do, with the understanding that some sort of conventional American military intervention is completely out of the question.

 

[Politico]

Obama will let them all die if he can pull the United States off of the world stage. We are (still) the wall against global governance, and therefore an interference.

He abandoned them over a year ago.

 

[ESay]

And what exactly do you propose the United States should do, with the understanding that some sort of conventional American military intervention is completely out of the question.

I give you an answer, if you don’t mind. Though, I am not an American.

The US should put pressure on the current Ukrainian government to reform the country – its political system, financial system, economy, army, and so on. The most crucial problem is rampant corruption everywhere, including the army. And I don’t believe the problem may be solved without severe external pressure. Actually, the question about Ukraine’s ability to survive is the question about ability to root out the corruption (well, I understand corruption can’t be rooted out completely, but what has been happening in Ukraine throughout the last 24 years is just something unbelievable). Yes, some steps (thanks to the West’s pressure) have been taken in the last year. But the pace is too slow.

 

[PK1]

So, you're a RUSSIAN separatist?
Why don't you go to Russia and leave Ukraine alone?
Ukrainians do not want Russian interference with their independent decision making, like joining EU.
Stop your Russian/Putin nationalistic fascism!

So, you're continue to dicriminate people by nationality here? And should continie a claiming of nazi absence in Ukraine???

BTW, you're right. There no any Ukraine as state in history. Only NovoRUSSIA, maloRUSSIA, and Galitchina. You just want a lacy trousers and EU. Take both of lacy trousers and villages, full of raguli, and go to EU. You would'nt hide from army recruitment, you'll have an permit to EU - what are your waiting for?

---
You say there is no state of Ukraine in history? Where have you been in the past 24 years?

I am not discriminating on basis of nationality; I have many Russian friends who are intelligent decent people who want Putin to stop his fascist policies against the Ukrainians and against his own Russian people who want freedom of expression, like Boris Nemtsov did before he was executed outside the Kremlin.
Nemtsov was a highly regarded Russian physicist and former Deputy Prime Minister of Russia who dared to criticize Putin.
Putin promised to find the murderers. Has he? How difficult can that be, with all those security cameras outside the Kremlin walls?

So you see, I am not against Russian people; I am against dictators like Putin who is against individual FREEDOMs and freedom of the PRESS..

Who guided murderers to Nemtsov? A Kiev-born girl Anna Duritskaja. So where's the murderer now? On the Ukrainian territory. Offcourse, Putin cannot find murderer of Nemtsov right now He'll just wait, when you, gang of murderers, will eat each other, like spiders in can

---
You are not making sense and acting like a big Жopa now. At least you admit to being Putin's су́ка.

 

[Sbiker]

---
You are not making sense and acting like a big Жopa now. At least you admit to being Putin's су́ка.

I'm not bot, and cannot interpret commands, you writing on cyrillic codepage

Putin is real man, all your complaints to him, he has "too big dick" And he doesn't eat ties, like your governeur of Odessa, Mishiko

 

[PK1]

And what exactly do you propose the United States should do, with the understanding that some sort of conventional American military intervention is completely out of the question.

I give you an answer, if you don’t mind. Though, I am not an American.

The US should put pressure on the current Ukrainian government to reform the country – its political system, financial system, economy, army, and so on. The most crucial problem is rampant corruption everywhere, including the army. And I don’t believe the problem may be solved without severe external pressure. Actually, the question about Ukraine’s ability to survive is the question about ability to root out the corruption (well, I understand corruption can’t be rooted out completely, but what has been happening in Ukraine throughout the last 24 years is just something unbelievable). Yes, some steps (thanks to the West’s pressure) have been taken in the last year. But the pace is too slow.

---
I agree that Ukraine had and still has lots of corruptive elements in its social system. ALL countries have "corruption" to various degrees, and Ukraine (like Russia) has more than its share, esp since the breakup of the Soviet Union 24 years ago.

Legal reforms should continue under Western pressure & guidance.

1. Ukraine's judicial system was inherited from that of the Soviet Union and the former Ukrainian SSR. As such, it had many of the problems which marred Sovietjustice, most notably a corrupt and politicised judiciary.

Judiciary of Ukraine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[PK1]

---
You are not making sense and acting like a big Жopa now. At least you admit to being Putin's су́ка.

I'm not bot, and cannot interpret commands, you writing on cyrillic codepage

Putin is real man, all your complaints to him, he has "too big dick" And he doesn't eat ties, like your governeur of Odessa, Mishiko

---
If Putin is "a real man", then why is he afraid of individual freedoms?
Why does he suppress protests and execute political opponents?
He acts more like a chicken shit.

BTW, I am not Ukrainian. My experience with this subject comes from multiple visits to both Russia and Ukraine.

 

[ESay]

I agree that Ukraine had and still has lots of corruptive elements in its social system. ALL countries have "corruption" to various degrees, and Ukraine (like Russia) has more than its share, esp since the breakup of the Soviet Union 24 years ago.

Legal reforms should continue under Western pressure & guidance.

1. Ukraine's judicial system was inherited from that of the Soviet Union and the former Ukrainian SSR. As such, it had many of the problems which marred Sovietjustice, most notably a corrupt and politicised judiciary.

Actually, the judicial system itself isn’t the only problem. You can create perfect judicial system in theory, but it doesn’t mean that it will work perfectly in practice. Now the law means nothing in Ukraine. Using money and personal contacts with officials, you can solve almost every problem you want.

 

[Sbiker]

---
You are not making sense and acting like a big Жopa now. At least you admit to being Putin's су́ка.

I'm not bot, and cannot interpret commands, you writing on cyrillic codepage

Putin is real man, all your complaints to him, he has "too big dick" And he doesn't eat ties, like your governeur of Odessa, Mishiko

---
If Putin is "a real man", then why is he afraid of individual freedoms?
Why does he suppress protests and execute political opponents?
He acts more like a chicken shit.

BTW, I am not Ukrainian. My experience with this subject comes from multiple visits to both Russia and Ukraine.

What's your "individual freedom"? Something, like this:

http://cnpocu-kak.ru/moia/svinii_v_kieve.jpg

Sorry, I prefer Putin's totalitarism, like this:

http://www.ljplus.ru/img/onlinemaniak/poster_proud_russia.jpg

Nothing personal, just illustrations