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Yeah, how'd that whole slavery-in-America thing turn out?LOL....we'll leave this as another failed argument, probably, since you can't even say for sure Paul wasAnd Paul was probably a closeted gay man.
gay and even if so, his sexuality does nothing to change biblical teachings on homosexuality.
Not with any success or actual theological authority, it hasn't. Try and drive that thought through your very thick skull, if you can. You aren't citing facts. You are citing failed arguments that carry no weight.And? Nothing you posted counters what the facts are...The bible has been used to justify slavery and segregation.
And how did that work out for him?A restaurant went to the Supreme Court saying his religion prevented him from serving blacks. Those were his "sincerely held religious beliefs". Why do your beliefs trump his?
Not well I'm guessing since racism has never been justified by the courts on religious grounds, or any other for
that matter.
My beliefs are not the issue here...it's the beliefs of the cake makers in Oregon and Colorado that were ruled upon by the US Supreme Court. I would probably grudgingly make the cake for the gays since I really don't care if they marry or not. But the fact is that labor cannot be compelled or forced by law if it violates someone's freedom of thought and religion. This is not Communist China, though you act like you wish it were.
Not with any success? Are you not from America? Very, very, VERY young? Just incredibly stupid?
How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery
The Southern Argument for Slavery [ushistory.org]
They even had an entire pamphlet
Not very well since the whole abolitionist movement was Christian based. A crummy apologist pamphlet put out by slave holders trying to justify slavery through the bible was obviously not very well received or paid attention to.Yeah, how'd that whole slavery-in-America thing turn out?
I'm trying not to be outright rude to you but your circular posts about how slave holders attempted to use the bible to justify slavery is so fucking idiotic and plainly fails to make it's point you are making it very difficult on me.Not with any success? Are you not from America? Very, very, VERY young? Just incredibly stupid?
How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery
The Southern Argument for Slavery [ushistory.org]
They even had an entire pamphlet
Your reasoning is absurd and just because someone claims something doesn't make it so. Hitler and his adherents had all sorts of arguments and reasons why Aryans were the master race. Somehow it wasn't true anyway.
You are only succeeding in proving how dense you are by this line of specious thought and non reasoning.
I'm trying not to be outright rude to you but your circular posts about how slave holders attempted to use the bible to justify slavery is so fucking idiotic and plainly fails to make it's point you are making it very difficult on me.Not with any success? Are you not from America? Very, very, VERY young? Just incredibly stupid?
How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery
The Southern Argument for Slavery [ushistory.org]
They even had an entire pamphlet
Your reasoning is absurd and just because someone claims something doesn't make it so. Hitler and his adherents had all sorts of arguments and reasons why Aryans were the master race. Somehow it wasn't true anyway.
You are only succeeding in proving how dense you are by this line of specious thought and non reasoning.
Three paragraphs, ^^^ and three ad hominems. Typical rhetoric of someone whose emotions get out of hand when someone offers an opinion which challenges him.
Don't use opinions...use facts
Yeah, I've already seen an example of your "proof" (God didn't put the black, yellow, white, red people together so that's proof He didn't want them mixing). That's weak bullshit!To the segregationists and slave owners, it WAS (is) so. They found passages in the bible to support their claims just like anti gay bigots do. To THEM it is as sincerely held a religious belief than being anti gay is. Just because YOU don't agree with them makes no difference. Plenty of people don't believe the New Testament is as anti gay as the bigots want it to be. Times change and so do religions.
Absolute nonsense.I provided facts. You ignore them.
Liberals believe in unilateral superiority on a bilateral circumstance, just like cats hiss, it’s s liberal emotional thing.No one can deny someone a contract based sex. It's against the law. The PA laws don't have to enter the situation. Contract law does.
What it all comes down to is the business person is denying a contract to someone based on that person's sex.
That's illegal in America.
How so? I've never heard of such a thing. "Deny someone a contract" is a non-sensical phrase. The entire concept of a contract is based on mutual consent.
It’s made up fake.No one can deny someone a contract based sex. It's against the law. The PA laws don't have to enter the situation. Contract law does.
What it all comes down to is the business person is denying a contract to someone based on that person's sex.
That's illegal in America.
How so? I've never heard of such a thing. "Deny someone a contract" is a non-sensical phrase. The entire concept of a contract is based on mutual consent.
It’s made up fake.No one can deny someone a contract based sex. It's against the law. The PA laws don't have to enter the situation. Contract law does.
What it all comes down to is the business person is denying a contract to someone based on that person's sex.
That's illegal in America.
How so? I've never heard of such a thing. "Deny someone a contract" is a non-sensical phrase. The entire concept of a contract is based on mutual consent.
There is no legal predetermination regarding requiring entry into a proposed bilateral contract.It’s made up fake.No one can deny someone a contract based sex. It's against the law. The PA laws don't have to enter the situation. Contract law does.
What it all comes down to is the business person is denying a contract to someone based on that person's sex.
That's illegal in America.
How so? I've never heard of such a thing. "Deny someone a contract" is a non-sensical phrase. The entire concept of a contract is based on mutual consent.
Maybe. I've never heard of such a thing. Discrimination is usually only banned in certain situations - PA laws, employment, lending - or when a company is foolish enough to contract with the government. But I don't believe there's any general prohibition about discrimination when signing a contract. It seems kind of crazy to me.
But then the modern liberal approach to civil rights seems kind of crazy to me, so it's certainly possible I'm wrong. There may be such laws on the books (in all fifty states).
There is no legal predetermination regarding requiring entry into a proposed bilateral contract.It’s made up fake.No one can deny someone a contract based sex. It's against the law. The PA laws don't have to enter the situation. Contract law does.
What it all comes down to is the business person is denying a contract to someone based on that person's sex.
That's illegal in America.
How so? I've never heard of such a thing. "Deny someone a contract" is a non-sensical phrase. The entire concept of a contract is based on mutual consent.
Maybe. I've never heard of such a thing. Discrimination is usually only banned in certain situations - PA laws, employment, lending - or when a company is foolish enough to contract with the government. But I don't believe there's any general prohibition about discrimination when signing a contract. It seems kind of crazy to me.
But then the modern liberal approach to civil rights seems kind of crazy to me, so it's certainly possible I'm wrong. There may be such laws on the books (in all fifty states).
Might make some libbies feel good to say that there is or should be.
Yeah, I've already seen an example of your "proof" (God didn't put the black, yellow, white, red people together so that's proof He didn't want them mixing). That's weak bullshit!To the segregationists and slave owners, it WAS (is) so. They found passages in the bible to support their claims just like anti gay bigots do. To THEM it is as sincerely held a religious belief than being anti gay is. Just because YOU don't agree with them makes no difference. Plenty of people don't believe the New Testament is as anti gay as the bigots want it to be. Times change and so do religions.
Billy Graham didn't buy it. Neither do I.
Sincerity sinschmerity....either you can justify your beliefs in accordance with the Bible or you can't. Racists can't. The anti gay marriage crowd can. So you can kiss my butt...no matter how many times you wish something to be so it just is not.
Yes, actually that is exactly what they are. Couple A, a man and a woman, order cake number 5 from baker. Couple B, two men, walk in to purchase the same cake, you've denied them equal service and in some places that's illegal. On the other hand, the gay must serve the Christian in all 50 states.Ya got stuffed....deal. This is devine
Pretty desperate to spin this as a win. Denying gays equal services will still result in lawsuits where the bigots lose.
These cases are not cases of denying gays equal service, it's refusing to engage in an activity that contradicts their religious beliefs. It's the difference between
"I refuse to serve you because you're gay."
and
"I refuse to perform this particular service for you because I feel it would make me complicit in your sin."
Denying equal service or no, the fact remains that some people of faith are extremely uncomfortable performing this type of service because, again, it makes them feel complicit in the gays' sin of homosexuality. It's just not as simple as declaring bigotry disguised by religious tenets because that is not necessarily true in all cases.
I happen to not agree that homosexuality is a sin but homosexuals don't get special considerations. A person's religious beliefs should be considered and respected just as much as the gay's rights.
That's just it, you want to give anti gay religious bigots concessions we do not give racist religious bigots. Racists tried to use "religious freedom" to keep segregation in place. It failed. Why should it be allowed to work for anti gay bigots and not racist bigots?
PA laws...vary in some states....tho I believe all states have PA laws that state businesses cannot discriminate based on religion or race or handicap. About 30 states include sexual orientation.Can a business owner refuse service to anyone they want for reasons besides religious ones?
Gender is included.
Which sexual orientation doesn't need to be in the list if they include gender and all of them do.
It's illegal to deny someone a contract based on their gender.
The business owner is denying people the contract to make a cake or take photos etc, because one of them is of the wrong sex.
That's so extremely illegal here in every part of America.
So a way to get around homophobia to ensure homosexuals have equal rights, use the existing laws of those states.
I had the chance to discuss marriage equality with a couple supreme court justices of my state. I told them the same thing. That our contract laws are being violated when a homosexual is denied a marriage license. They agreed with me and said they had never considered it that way.
So if someone doesn't want to enter into a contract because someone is of the wrong sex, they are so violating our equality laws and can be prosecuted. A PA law for sexual orientation isn't needed.
No, and I am totally unsurprised you got things all wrong again, even though I've stated it plainly enough over and over.You're asking for proof of what someone believes. That's not how beliefs work. Racists believe the bible supports their racism just as deeply as anti gay bigots believe the bible supports their bigotry. I think they are both wrong, you only think one of them is wrong.
So, you think you can tell the racist "you're wrong so you have to serve black people". Why don't I get to say "you're wrong, you have to serve gay people"?
No, and I am totally unsurprised you got things all wrong again, even though I've stated it plainly enough over and over.You're asking for proof of what someone believes. That's not how beliefs work. Racists believe the bible supports their racism just as deeply as anti gay bigots believe the bible supports their bigotry. I think they are both wrong, you only think one of them is wrong.
So, you think you can tell the racist "you're wrong so you have to serve black people". Why don't I get to say "you're wrong, you have to serve gay people"?
The bible supports the idea that being gay is a sin but nowhere can I find passages in the bible that support racism and the notion of racial superiority.
What you've provided is rationalizing by racist preachers and slave holders justifying a segregated world and nation
But that's their view. Not that of the bible. And I'n sure they believe whole heartedly in their view. But that belief, their own belief, is unsupported by the bible
And that's how the Supreme Court ruled...based on the scripture of the bible that would support an anti same sex marriage view but not one that's racist. Deal with it.
Then let the racists argue their case before the Supreme Court as the Kleins have.It doesn't matter if YOU think the passages support racism, slavery or segregation...The racists believe they do. Do you think you get to dictate someone else's sincerely held religious belief?
Then let the racists argue their case before the Supreme Court as the Kleins have.It doesn't matter if YOU think the passages support racism, slavery or segregation...The racists believe they do. Do you think you get to dictate someone else's sincerely held religious belief?
Oh...that's right. They already have and got absolutely nowhere!
I give you one last chance to catch on...show me where the bible endorses or encourages racism.
Show me anything remotely like Leviticus 18:22 with regard to race or shut the fuck up and go away.
Really. Prove your point or shut the fuck up and go away! I'm not interested in what racists think or how they rationalize their idiocy. I'm looking for one single biblical passage that starkly states support by God for racism the way Leviticus 18:22 states things plainly with regard to homosexuality.
Thank you and good bye.
Nope! What are you talking about? Doesn't "apply" how and to whom?Leviticus? That's old testament stuff and doesn't apply, remember?
