WISCONSIN:'Constitutional crisis'...Senate Orders Arrest Of Missing Democrats

[DiveCon]

I merely provided an example of union members.

No, what you provided was an example of public safety employees who are exempt from the WI legislation which has nothing to do with them. So the only thing you exposed was your own ignorance. Once again a perfect example of how the left will lie, mischaracterize, and decieve. Congradulations? In successive posts your attempts to expose something have managed only to expose you as a racist, lying, stupid POS!!!! Great job there, dumbass.

BenNatuf just blew himself up. BenNatuf now has only been talking about WI. Anybody can go back and read his universal condemnation of unions. Hoisted by his own rope. Now he is handing by his balls next to divecon. You guys never think before you post.

liar, and the peabrain thanks him for his lies

 

[Spoonman]

I merely provided an example of union members.

No, what you provided was an example of public safety employees who are exempt from the WI legislation which has nothing to do with them. So the only thing you exposed was your own ignorance. Once again a perfect example of how the left will lie, mischaracterize, and decieve.

Congradulations? In successive posts your attempts to expose something have managed only to expose you as a racist, lying, stupid POS!!!! Great job there, dumbass.

Those public safety employees are Public Union members.

Gov Walker claims this action against unions is solely a fiscal move. Then why are public safety services which make up the majority of the budget exempted? Why are only the unions who supported him for election exempt, and only unions who didn't support him being targeted? If it truly is about fiscal issues, then the Gov is either lying or cheating the taxpayers.

This bill doesn't just target highway workers and DMV employees. It also affects health care providers like nurses, physical therapists and other supportive heath care occupations. It affects engineers that design and plan infrastructure projects, building inspector, game wardens, Department of Natural Resources wardens and other law enforcement professionals.

What do you have to say about the Police and the Firefighters in Wisconsin who came out to support the demonstrators?

Off-duty cops join protests in Wisconsin - USA Today

I'm curious. If cops and firemen are excluded from the new legislation why are you using them here?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The FACT that the firefighters are union members proves her right?

No, but feeling the need to state it proves that you're a peabrain.

The existence of a firefighters' union doesn't prove that the people in those photos are big union supporters. Even the fact that they're members - and I'm sure they are, because they're in New York, so they almost certainly have no choice but to be members - doesn't prove that they're big union supporters. In fact, the aforementioned forced membership makes it quite likely at least some of them view the union negatively, and membership as nothing more than paid extortion in order to have a job.

I have mentioned that I was once an employee of the US Postal Service. Membership in the APWU is not mandatory, but "representation" by them is. All employee contracts, benefits, disputes, etc. in the Postal Service are negotiated and set with the APWU. No individual negotiation - at least, below management level; I can't say about management - is allowed. So as a postal employee I was subject to the APWU, whether I paid dues or not. I viewed them largely as an enormous, self-serving pain in the ass. Had membership been mandatory in order for me to work there, I would have joined and paid the dues, and my negative opinion of them would have increased exponentially.

SO...you enjoyed all the benefits the union gained for you, but you felt other people should pay for YOU. Gee, where did I hear that described ...oh yea, BenNatuf's bigotry filled rant of ignorance when he got to the 'welfare queen' reference.

Enjoyed?! What part of "enormous, self-serving pain in the ass" made you think I ENJOYED anything about the APWU? Those idiots drove me up the wall, and there was no way to get away from them. They spent more time fighting for things that made life HARDER for the average worker on the floor than they ever did for anything that might have been helpful. And let's be serious; it's not like there was any "fighting" needed concerning wages and benefits. The federal government was hardly going to run a sweatshop, with or without the APWU.

You're goddamned right I thought someone else should pay the fucking union dues, namely the dipshits who LIKED having those idiots around, bollixing things up. For the record, that would be the 'tards who couldn't have held onto their jobs without the APWU making it impossible to fire them. I was the top-performing employee in my section; I didn't NEED anyone protecting me from being fired, or trying to get me more money. I managed that just fine by myself.

 

[Bfgrn]

No, what you provided was an example of public safety employees who are exempt from the WI legislation which has nothing to do with them. So the only thing you exposed was your own ignorance. Once again a perfect example of how the left will lie, mischaracterize, and decieve.

Congradulations? In successive posts your attempts to expose something have managed only to expose you as a racist, lying, stupid POS!!!! Great job there, dumbass.

Those public safety employees are Public Union members.

Gov Walker claims this action against unions is solely a fiscal move. Then why are public safety services which make up the majority of the budget exempted? Why are only the unions who supported him for election exempt, and only unions who didn't support him being targeted? If it truly is about fiscal issues, then the Gov is either lying or cheating the taxpayers.

This bill doesn't just target highway workers and DMV employees. It also affects health care providers like nurses, physical therapists and other supportive heath care occupations. It affects engineers that design and plan infrastructure projects, building inspector, game wardens, Department of Natural Resources wardens and other law enforcement professionals.

What do you have to say about the Police and the Firefighters in Wisconsin who came out to support the demonstrators?

Off-duty cops join protests in Wisconsin - USA Today

I'm curious. If cops and firemen are excluded from the new legislation why are you using them here?

Because even though they are excluded, they are supporting the union members who are not excluded. These pictures are from Wisconsin.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I merely provided an example of union members.

No, what you provided was an example of public safety employees who are exempt from the WI legislation which has nothing to do with them. So the only thing you exposed was your own ignorance. Once again a perfect example of how the left will lie, mischaracterize, and decieve.

Congradulations? In successive posts your attempts to expose something have managed only to expose you as a racist, lying, stupid POS!!!! Great job there, dumbass.

Those public safety employees are Public Union members.

Gov Walker claims this action against unions is solely a fiscal move. Then why are public safety services which make up the majority of the budget exempted? Why are only the unions who supported him for election exempt, and only unions who didn't support him being targeted? If it truly is about fiscal issues, then the Gov is either lying or cheating the taxpayers.

This bill doesn't just target highway workers and DMV employees. It also affects health care providers like nurses, physical therapists and other supportive heath care occupations. It affects engineers that design and plan infrastructure projects, building inspector, game wardens, Department of Natural Resources wardens and other law enforcement professionals.

You are going to stubbornly ignore the difference between "union members" and "strong union supporters" to the death, no matter HOW ignorant it makes you look, aren't you? Keep on trying to pretend he said that "union members" are sorry pieces of shit. It's always funny watching someone like you lie and feign outrage on behalf of the lie.

 

[Bfgrn]

No, but feeling the need to state it proves that you're a peabrain.

The existence of a firefighters' union doesn't prove that the people in those photos are big union supporters. Even the fact that they're members - and I'm sure they are, because they're in New York, so they almost certainly have no choice but to be members - doesn't prove that they're big union supporters. In fact, the aforementioned forced membership makes it quite likely at least some of them view the union negatively, and membership as nothing more than paid extortion in order to have a job.

I have mentioned that I was once an employee of the US Postal Service. Membership in the APWU is not mandatory, but "representation" by them is. All employee contracts, benefits, disputes, etc. in the Postal Service are negotiated and set with the APWU. No individual negotiation - at least, below management level; I can't say about management - is allowed. So as a postal employee I was subject to the APWU, whether I paid dues or not. I viewed them largely as an enormous, self-serving pain in the ass. Had membership been mandatory in order for me to work there, I would have joined and paid the dues, and my negative opinion of them would have increased exponentially.

SO...you enjoyed all the benefits the union gained for you, but you felt other people should pay for YOU. Gee, where did I hear that described ...oh yea, BenNatuf's bigotry filled rant of ignorance when he got to the 'welfare queen' reference.

Enjoyed?! What part of "enormous, self-serving pain in the ass" made you think I ENJOYED anything about the APWU? Those idiots drove me up the wall, and there was no way to get away from them. They spent more time fighting for things that made life HARDER for the average worker on the floor than they ever did for anything that might have been helpful. And let's be serious; it's not like there was any "fighting" needed concerning wages and benefits. The federal government was hardly going to run a sweatshop, with or without the APWU.

You're goddamned right I thought someone else should pay the fucking union dues, namely the dipshits who LIKED having those idiots around, bollixing things up. For the record, that would be the 'tards who couldn't have held onto their jobs without the APWU making it impossible to fire them. I was the top-performing employee in my section; I didn't NEED anyone protecting me from being fired, or trying to get me more money. I managed that just fine by myself.

WOW, you are truly self important...In March 1970, full-time postal employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps. I'm so proud that you changed that all by yourself.

 

[Bfgrn]

No, what you provided was an example of public safety employees who are exempt from the WI legislation which has nothing to do with them. So the only thing you exposed was your own ignorance. Once again a perfect example of how the left will lie, mischaracterize, and decieve.

Congradulations? In successive posts your attempts to expose something have managed only to expose you as a racist, lying, stupid POS!!!! Great job there, dumbass.

Those public safety employees are Public Union members.

Gov Walker claims this action against unions is solely a fiscal move. Then why are public safety services which make up the majority of the budget exempted? Why are only the unions who supported him for election exempt, and only unions who didn't support him being targeted? If it truly is about fiscal issues, then the Gov is either lying or cheating the taxpayers.

This bill doesn't just target highway workers and DMV employees. It also affects health care providers like nurses, physical therapists and other supportive heath care occupations. It affects engineers that design and plan infrastructure projects, building inspector, game wardens, Department of Natural Resources wardens and other law enforcement professionals.

You are going to stubbornly ignore the difference between "union members" and "strong union supporters" to the death, no matter HOW ignorant it makes you look, aren't you? Keep on trying to pretend he said that "union members" are sorry pieces of shit. It's always funny watching someone like you lie and feign outrage on behalf of the lie.

Well here is yours and his quandary...those police and fireman who joined the protesters ARE there to strongly support their union brothers and sisters. THAT would make them union supporters. You folks on the right are like professional wrestlers, when the ref turns the other way and then the guy is laying bloody on the mat, you hold up your hands and feign innocence.

 

[Cecilie1200]

SO...you enjoyed all the benefits the union gained for you, but you felt other people should pay for YOU. Gee, where did I hear that described ...oh yea, BenNatuf's bigotry filled rant of ignorance when he got to the 'welfare queen' reference.

Enjoyed?! What part of "enormous, self-serving pain in the ass" made you think I ENJOYED anything about the APWU? Those idiots drove me up the wall, and there was no way to get away from them. They spent more time fighting for things that made life HARDER for the average worker on the floor than they ever did for anything that might have been helpful. And let's be serious; it's not like there was any "fighting" needed concerning wages and benefits. The federal government was hardly going to run a sweatshop, with or without the APWU.

You're goddamned right I thought someone else should pay the fucking union dues, namely the dipshits who LIKED having those idiots around, bollixing things up. For the record, that would be the 'tards who couldn't have held onto their jobs without the APWU making it impossible to fire them. I was the top-performing employee in my section; I didn't NEED anyone protecting me from being fired, or trying to get me more money. I managed that just fine by myself.

WOW, you are truly self important...In March 1970, full-time postal employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps. I'm so proud that you changed that all by yourself.

You are a fucking moron.

1) According to the APWU itself, the average salary for postal workers in general in 1970 was $9,657. Which means that workers with 21 years of service were making more than that.

2) By comparison, the average salary nationally was $6,186.24. Barely enough to make ends meet, my ass. Even if your numbers had been correct - which they weren't - postal employees STILL would have been in line with the national average WHEN THEY STARTED, let alone after they put in two decades of service.

http://apwu.org/news/burrus/2007/update02-2007-012607-chart.pdf
Average Wages | jobs

 

[Bfgrn]

Enjoyed?! What part of "enormous, self-serving pain in the ass" made you think I ENJOYED anything about the APWU? Those idiots drove me up the wall, and there was no way to get away from them. They spent more time fighting for things that made life HARDER for the average worker on the floor than they ever did for anything that might have been helpful. And let's be serious; it's not like there was any "fighting" needed concerning wages and benefits. The federal government was hardly going to run a sweatshop, with or without the APWU.

You're goddamned right I thought someone else should pay the fucking union dues, namely the dipshits who LIKED having those idiots around, bollixing things up. For the record, that would be the 'tards who couldn't have held onto their jobs without the APWU making it impossible to fire them. I was the top-performing employee in my section; I didn't NEED anyone protecting me from being fired, or trying to get me more money. I managed that just fine by myself.

WOW, you are truly self important...In March 1970, full-time postal employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps. I'm so proud that you changed that all by yourself.

You are a fucking moron.

1) According to the APWU itself, the average salary for postal workers in general in 1970 was $9,657. Which means that workers with 21 years of service were making more than that.

2) By comparison, the average salary nationally was $6,186.24. Barely enough to make ends meet, my ass. Even if your numbers had been correct - which they weren't - postal employees STILL would have been in line with the national average WHEN THEY STARTED, let alone after they put in two decades of service.

http://apwu.org/news/burrus/2007/update02-2007-012607-chart.pdf
Average Wages | jobs

APWU History

APWU History

The American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO, represents more than 220,000 employees of the U.S. Postal Service who are clerks, maintenance employees, and motor vehicle service workers. The APWU is the world's largest postal union.

Postal unions, dating back to the 19th Century, have experienced a number of transitions, paralleling the growth of the former Post Office Department, which became the U.S. Postal Service in 1970. Upon the creation of the USPS, postal unions were allowed to bargain collectively over wages and conditions for the first time.

The early unions had essentially no bargaining rights — they existed largely as lobbying organizations that otherwise would have had no say about their working conditions. Wage increases depended on the whim of Congress.

As a result, postal workers were chronically underpaid. In March 1970, full-time employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps.

 

[Cecilie1200]

WOW, you are truly self important...In March 1970, full-time postal employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps. I'm so proud that you changed that all by yourself.

You are a fucking moron.

1) According to the APWU itself, the average salary for postal workers in general in 1970 was $9,657. Which means that workers with 21 years of service were making more than that.

2) By comparison, the average salary nationally was $6,186.24. Barely enough to make ends meet, my ass. Even if your numbers had been correct - which they weren't - postal employees STILL would have been in line with the national average WHEN THEY STARTED, let alone after they put in two decades of service.

http://apwu.org/news/burrus/2007/update02-2007-012607-chart.pdf
Average Wages | jobs

APWU History

APWU History

The American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO, represents more than 220,000 employees of the U.S. Postal Service who are clerks, maintenance employees, and motor vehicle service workers. The APWU is the world's largest postal union.

Postal unions, dating back to the 19th Century, have experienced a number of transitions, paralleling the growth of the former Post Office Department, which became the U.S. Postal Service in 1970. Upon the creation of the USPS, postal unions were allowed to bargain collectively over wages and conditions for the first time.

The early unions had essentially no bargaining rights — they existed largely as lobbying organizations that otherwise would have had no say about their working conditions. Wage increases depended on the whim of Congress.

As a result, postal workers were chronically underpaid. In March 1970, full-time employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps.

Well, then, the APWU is putting out conflicting stories, if their website is giving two different totals.

Wow, a union being dishonest. What're the odds?

 

[JakeStarkey]

CeCelie1200 is some of the best evidence for those whom she opposes.

 

[Big Fitz]

How do you know the people in those pictures are strong union supporters? I'd venture to guess you don't even know their names, let alone their personal feelings about unions or anything else.

Doubt he'd care either. They're only pawns in his effort to justify his political point.

Ah, Big FIZZZZZZZZ... in your usual style, you cut out the words that would reveal who doesn't care and who is a political pawn.

Strong union supporters are the laziest sorries pieces of shit on the job and think they're entitled to everything. Pampered, spoiled and worthless.

I merely provided an example of union members.

I did nothing of the kind. I quoted and don't need to alter your words to make you look the fool.

 

[BenNatuf]

Those public safety employees are Public Union members.

Gov Walker claims this action against unions is solely a fiscal move. Then why are public safety services which make up the majority of the budget exempted? Why are only the unions who supported him for election exempt, and only unions who didn't support him being targeted? If it truly is about fiscal issues, then the Gov is either lying or cheating the taxpayers.

This bill doesn't just target highway workers and DMV employees. It also affects health care providers like nurses, physical therapists and other supportive heath care occupations. It affects engineers that design and plan infrastructure projects, building inspector, game wardens, Department of Natural Resources wardens and other law enforcement professionals.

You are going to stubbornly ignore the difference between "union members" and "strong union supporters" to the death, no matter HOW ignorant it makes you look, aren't you? Keep on trying to pretend he said that "union members" are sorry pieces of shit. It's always funny watching someone like you lie and feign outrage on behalf of the lie.

Well here is yours and his quandary...those police and fireman who joined the protesters ARE there to strongly support their union brothers and sisters. THAT would make them union supporters. You folks on the right are like professional wrestlers, when the ref turns the other way and then the guy is laying bloody on the mat, you hold up your hands and feign innocence.

and by your logic the vast majority who did not show up are not.

 

[BenNatuf]

Those public safety employees are Public Union members.

who this legislation does not effect, once agin the only thing your proving is that you will decieve and lie to attempt to make a point

Because thats what he said he would do when he talked about this when he was campaigning. Why are you acting like its a surprize?once agin a canard, he said what he was going to do before any unions endorsed him, and the majority of police and fire unions supported his opponent, yet they too are exempt. Why do you find it neccessary to lie so much?More BS, all public sector unions except public safety are effected by this legislation... which is exactly what he said he would do before he got elected, and before any unions either endorsed or opposed him. You seem confused about who is being targetted by whomNope, he's doing exactly what he said he would... that would be called telling the truth and delivering on your promises. You are the one who's lying.

good.

What do you have to say about the Police and the Firefighters in Wisconsin who came out to support the demonstrators?

Off-duty cops join protests in Wisconsin - USA Today

It is thier right. It also puts a fork in your claim of him paying them off foer their support (not that it ever had merit in the first place).

WOW, could you hack up my post any more to only address what you chose?

Wow, could yopu possibly feign more poutrage? I addressed every point you made, skipped none and quoted all of it.

Show me ONE sliver of evidence Walker mentioned eliminating collective bargaining rights from ANY public employees.

It was what he campaigned on, if you missed the campaign thats your problem. BTW dumbass, collective bargaining rights have not been "elliminated" just restricted inh scope.

IF public union benefits are the root of Wisconsin's fiscal problems, WHY is the public safety services which make up the majority of the budget exempted?

Your contention is false. There are not more police and firement in WI than there are ALL other government employees. They do not make up a majority of anything. however, that is what walker said he would do in the campaign and the people agreed with him and elected him. If democratics wanted to make the argument to not exempt them, they should have said so during the campaign.

So you say it is GOOD to cut the pay and even the jobs of health care providers like nurses, physical therapists and other supportive heath care occupations, engineers that design and plan infrastructure projects, building inspector, game wardens, Department of Natural Resources wardens and other law enforcement professionals? REALLY? WTF is wrong with you?

Why do you find it so neccessarey to lie? No-ones pay is being cut. They will still have health insurance, but the state will choose where to buy it and they will have to contribute to its purchase at a rate half that of the rest of the people in the state, they will still have vacation and sick days, they will still have pensions but like EVERYONE else they will have to contribute to their pensions, at rate half that of anyone else in the state. They will still be able to collectively bargain for raises, but if the raise is higher than inflation the voters will have to approve it.

State agents, DNR wardens not exempt from Walker cuts

Gov. Scott Walker has exempted police officers, firefighters and state troopers from cuts in his budget-repair bill, saying those in public safety should be treated differently.

However, there are law enforcement officers - hundreds of them - who would see cuts if Walker's bill becomes law.

Among those affected would be special agents at the state Department of Justice, Department of Natural Resources wardens, University of Wisconsin police officers and others.

Special agents, who work for the state Division of Criminal Investigation, often team up with local law enforcement and federal authorities on cases and do their own investigations. Their mission is to investigate crimes of a statewide importance.

"I think it is fair to say when it comes to major crimes committed in Wisconsin, probably the vast majority of them had DCI agents involved," said former Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager, a Democrat. She is now a private lawyer who represents the state's largest employee union, which includes certain law enforcement officers.

The last law enforcement officer killed in the city of Milwaukee was state special agent Jay Balchunas, who was working on a drug case when he was gunned down in 2004 at a gas station.

"They are the people who do narcotics investigations, homicide investigations, Internet crimes involving children investigations," department spokesman Bill Cosh said of special agents.

Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen, who is in charge of the special agents, declined to comment Friday on fellow Republican Walker not exempting the agents.

Walker exempted "local law enforcement and fire employees, and state troopers and inspectors" from his bill.

"If he defines public safety officers in that limited way, I think he needs to educate himself of the obligations and duties of many public employees who are left out of that bill," she said.

The state's 100 special agents belong to a union that includes teachers and myriad state workers, called Wisconsin Professional Employees Council.

About 180 DNR wardens also are not exempted under Walker's bill. Wardens are sworn law enforcement officers who carry firearms and have arrest powers.

Besides enforcing natural resource laws, they are sometimes called on to assist local law enforcement officers and must act when they see crime, said DNR senior counsel Michael Lutz. Warden Jeremy Peery arrested the man who killed six hunters in 2004 and five years later apprehended an armed bank robber after a high-speed chase and gunbattle.

More

so which is it, do you want to include them all or not? You complain that walker did what he said he would and exempted state and local police and firefighters and now you complain that these others are not exempted... pick one side and be consistant.

 

[BenNatuf]

I merely provided an example of union members.

No, what you provided was an example of public safety employees who are exempt from the WI legislation which has nothing to do with them. So the only thing you exposed was your own ignorance. Once again a perfect example of how the left will lie, mischaracterize, and decieve. Congradulations? In successive posts your attempts to expose something have managed only to expose you as a racist, lying, stupid POS!!!! Great job there, dumbass.

BenNatuf just blew himself up. BenNatuf now has only been talking about WI. Anybody can go back and read his universal condemnation of unions. Hoisted by his own rope. Now he is hanging by his balls next to divecon. You guys never think before you post.

once again your inane and completely pointless rantings are irrelevant. this discussion is about WI and the exemption of state and local police and firfighters dumbass.

 

[BenNatuf]

WOW, you are truly self important...In March 1970, full-time postal employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps. I'm so proud that you changed that all by yourself.

You are a fucking moron.

1) According to the APWU itself, the average salary for postal workers in general in 1970 was $9,657. Which means that workers with 21 years of service were making more than that.

2) By comparison, the average salary nationally was $6,186.24. Barely enough to make ends meet, my ass. Even if your numbers had been correct - which they weren't - postal employees STILL would have been in line with the national average WHEN THEY STARTED, let alone after they put in two decades of service.

http://apwu.org/news/burrus/2007/update02-2007-012607-chart.pdf
Average Wages | jobs

APWU History

APWU History

The American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO, represents more than 220,000 employees of the U.S. Postal Service who are clerks, maintenance employees, and motor vehicle service workers. The APWU is the world's largest postal union.

Postal unions, dating back to the 19th Century, have experienced a number of transitions, paralleling the growth of the former Post Office Department, which became the U.S. Postal Service in 1970. Upon the creation of the USPS, postal unions were allowed to bargain collectively over wages and conditions for the first time.

The early unions had essentially no bargaining rights — they existed largely as lobbying organizations that otherwise would have had no say about their working conditions. Wage increases depended on the whim of Congress.

As a result, postal workers were chronically underpaid. In March 1970, full-time employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps.

So you cut and pasted a direct quote from the author plagerizing them without citing the author. I'm not surpized... kinda goes along with all the other lies.

 

[Bfgrn]

You are a fucking moron.

1) According to the APWU itself, the average salary for postal workers in general in 1970 was $9,657. Which means that workers with 21 years of service were making more than that.

2) By comparison, the average salary nationally was $6,186.24. Barely enough to make ends meet, my ass. Even if your numbers had been correct - which they weren't - postal employees STILL would have been in line with the national average WHEN THEY STARTED, let alone after they put in two decades of service.

http://apwu.org/news/burrus/2007/update02-2007-012607-chart.pdf
Average Wages | jobs

APWU History

APWU History

The American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO, represents more than 220,000 employees of the U.S. Postal Service who are clerks, maintenance employees, and motor vehicle service workers. The APWU is the world's largest postal union.

Postal unions, dating back to the 19th Century, have experienced a number of transitions, paralleling the growth of the former Post Office Department, which became the U.S. Postal Service in 1970. Upon the creation of the USPS, postal unions were allowed to bargain collectively over wages and conditions for the first time.

The early unions had essentially no bargaining rights — they existed largely as lobbying organizations that otherwise would have had no say about their working conditions. Wage increases depended on the whim of Congress.

As a result, postal workers were chronically underpaid. In March 1970, full-time employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps.

Well, then, the APWU is putting out conflicting stories, if their website is giving two different totals.

Wow, a union being dishonest. What're the odds?

There is not a conflict. READ the history and pay attention to the dates.

 

[JakeStarkey]

BenNatuf has been outed again. This discussion would be more interesting if BN would stay on track and not lie when caught out.

 

[BenNatuf]

BenNatuf has been outed again. This discussion would be more interesting if BN would stay on track and not lie when caught out.

Maybe when you get out of the 9th grade somebody will give a fuck about your stupid shit.

You constantly take words and phrases out of context to "proove" somebody said something they didn't say, you constantly lie, you're constantly wrong, you're not now nor have you ever been any kind of republican, you're just a kid lying on a computer.

The thread asswipe is about WI, I've never ever said I liked any unions at all, I've never ever said I supported exempting any, what I have said is thats what Walker said he was going to do, and thats exactly what he did do and exactly what he did say. I've proven by linking to actual facts (not some wingnut web site) that what I've said is true. And I've never claimed that anything I did claim to be a facvt was anything more than my opinion.

You on the other hand think your assinine opinions are facts.

Grow the fuck up Jokey, I will not address you again. You're useless ass is just not worth the effort of typing.

 

[BenNatuf]

APWU History

APWU History

The American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO, represents more than 220,000 employees of the U.S. Postal Service who are clerks, maintenance employees, and motor vehicle service workers. The APWU is the world's largest postal union.

Postal unions, dating back to the 19th Century, have experienced a number of transitions, paralleling the growth of the former Post Office Department, which became the U.S. Postal Service in 1970. Upon the creation of the USPS, postal unions were allowed to bargain collectively over wages and conditions for the first time.

The early unions had essentially no bargaining rights — they existed largely as lobbying organizations that otherwise would have had no say about their working conditions. Wage increases depended on the whim of Congress.

As a result, postal workers were chronically underpaid. In March 1970, full-time employees earned about $6,200 to start, and workers with 21 years of service averaged only $8,440 — barely enough to make ends meet at that time. In fact, many postal workers qualified for food stamps.

Well, then, the APWU is putting out conflicting stories, if their website is giving two different totals.

Wow, a union being dishonest. What're the odds?

There is not a conflict. READ the history and pay attention to the dates.

there is a conflict, the conflict is plagerism and you may want to go back and link the website to the first time you quoted it so people will know where it is you go to find out what you're supposed to think and not get confused about you actually doing any thinking for yourself.