Would you raise the interest rate on your own mortgage or credit card?

[kaz]

Would you raise the interest rate on your own mortgage or credit card?

Sounds like a really stupid question because no one wants to pay more than they have to when it comes to borrowing money, right?

But if the Debt Ceiling is not raised the credit rating of the USA could be downgraded again and that will mean that the interest rate that We the People will have to pay will go up.

Since it is going to be us taxpayers who are paying that interest does it make any sense at all to increase the rate that we are going to have to pay?

The fallacy in your argument is that you're ignoring spending. If your wife is blowing out the limit on your card, you may not want to increase the limit because her uncontrolled spending is a bigger issue then the interest. The Democratic Party is your wife.

Next time try sticking to the OP instead of deflecting.

You don't get how my reply was directly about the op? Seriously?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Would you raise the interest rate on your own mortgage or credit card?

Sounds like a really stupid question because no one wants to pay more than they have to when it comes to borrowing money, right?

But if the Debt Ceiling is not raised the credit rating of the USA could be downgraded again and that will mean that the interest rate that We the People will have to pay will go up.

Since it is going to be us taxpayers who are paying that interest does it make any sense at all to increase the rate that we are going to have to pay?

By this logic, we could raise the debt ceiling to 900 trillion and not have to pay high interest rates for years. Would that be a responsible and accountable thing to do?

No, you are creating bs logic with no reality of the govt and economy first appropriately defined. It doesn't follow, given how the govt and economy works.

Please explain and elaborate on the bs part of it because I do have knowledge of how agencies and departments work within the govt along with the private sector. We have now gone from 10 trillion to 17 trillion without raising rates. We are doing this not by paying off debt but paying on interest accrued under these staggering numbers. There will be a point in which this collapses.

 

[itfitzme]

I really don't see how some folks are ever gonna get it except staight up. The household analogy is pure bullshit. If you hang onto that bs, you'll never understand how macro econ and govt works.

Perfect analogy. I wouldn't raise my wife (in my scenario) or the Democratic Party's credit limit. You realize BTW that not raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean Democrats can't spend the revenue coming in, right? Democrats just can't spend more than the revenue coming in. That's why it's actually a great idea.

There you go again with the bs. The Democrats haven't spent shit by your accounting. It is pure unadulterated bullshit.

You havent downloaded the budget data, separated out by category and examined where the spending was.

The reality is the major driver of government discresionary spendin, and therefor the deficit, is the defense budget.

You've eithe made shit up without examining the data or bought imto someone elses bullshit.

 

[Vox]

Good for you.

I might be the "others"

Actually, no you won't. General tax levels have no effect on your consumption level. It is just extra accounting riding along. What matters is employment and productivity.

yes, they do. they have DIRECT effect on the consumption level.

increased taxation in a stagnating economy ( a.k.a. US economy under obamanomics) decreases employment and productivity

 

[kwc57]

if you maxed your card - you can not use it anymore.
the ceiling is achieved.

True, an individual in as much of a financial mess as America is would get laughed out of the bank if they asked for a limit increase.

Instead the Bank of China opens its' doors wide and asks its' best customer how much more credit do you want?

Yesssss.......and they will end up owning and controlling the US without firing a single shot. Think about it. What happens when you can't make your mortgage or car payment.

 

[Care4all]

Instead of raising the debt ceiling yet again, why don't they take that money out of spending in order to pay the bill? You know, real, true spending cuts?

Good question zoom, but they have had years to do this, they KNEW the new debt ceiling was coming....

Congress has failed us...instead of truly doing their jobs and coming up with cuts that are mutually agreed upon, they are playing games....games that will HURT US ALL, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE ONE IS ON.

the debt ceiling is for what has been SPENT ALREADY....

Making budget cuts and reducing the deficit, will help us not have to raise the debt ceiling AGAIN in the FUTURE.

 

[itfitzme]

By this logic, we could raise the debt ceiling to 900 trillion and not have to pay high interest rates for years. Would that be a responsible and accountable thing to do?

No, you are creating bs logic with no reality of the govt and economy first appropriately defined. It doesn't follow, given how the govt and economy works.

Please explain and elaborate on the bs part of it because I do have knowledge of how agencies and departments work within the govt along with the private sector. We have now gone from 10 trillion to 17 trillion without raising rates. We are doing this not by paying off debt but paying on interest accrued under these staggering numbers. There w an individual has the authority ill be a point in which this collapses.

So you've downloaded the budget data by section? Put it in reql dollar per cap terms? Seperated out the non-descresionary spending then lined up the presidential terms?

What is "staggering" about it except $1,000,000,000,000 is alot of zeros for you? It isn't staggering, it is just a number. This one is bigger

$1x10^100

Huge

so what?

Why is it going to collapse? What is this mechanism?

 

[Vox]

I really don't see how some folks are ever gonna get it except staight up. The household analogy is pure bullshit. If you hang onto that bs, you'll never understand how macro econ and govt works.

no, your denial is a pure bullshit.
"we can spend all we want, because we don't have to pay it now" - that is the bullshit explanation, or the other "perfect" one - we have to borrow, because the interest rate is low

as if it can not be raised any time the creditors feel like it.

you really are idiots

 

[itfitzme]

True, an individual in as much of a financial mess as America is would get laughed out of the bank if they asked for a limit increase.

Instead the Bank of China opens its' doors wide and asks its' best customer how much more credit do you want?

Yesssss.......and they will end up owning and controlling the US without firing a single shot. Think about it. What happens when you can't make your mortgage or car payment.

Depends on what they buy from us. The $ are no good except in purchasing in the US $ zone.

So what is wrong with making and selling stuff?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Instead of raising the debt ceiling yet again, why don't they take that money out of spending in order to pay the bill? You know, real, true spending cuts?

Good question zoom, but they have had years to do this, they KNEW the new debt ceiling was coming....

Congress has failed us...instead of truly doing their jobs, and coming up with cuts that are mutually agreed upon, they are playing games....games that will HURT US ALL, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE ONE IS ON.

the debt ceiling is for what has been SPENT ALREADY....

Making budget cuts and reducing the deficit, will help us not have to raise the debt ceiling in the FUTURE.

The debt ceiling comes all the time. Didn't we just go through this? At what point do we (the people) say ENOUGH!, cut the spending so you don't continually have this problem??

How can they make budget cuts when they don't even have a budget?

I'm sick of the whole lot of them.

 

[kwc57]

Instead of raising the debt ceiling yet again, why don't they take that money out of spending in order to pay the bill? You know, real, true spending cuts?

Good question zoom, but they have had years to do this, they KNEW the new debt ceiling was coming....

Congress has failed us...instead of truly doing their jobs and coming up with cuts that are mutually agreed upon, they are playing games....games that will HURT US ALL, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE ONE IS ON.

the debt ceiling is for what has been SPENT ALREADY....

Making budget cuts and reducing the deficit, will help us not have to raise the debt ceiling AGAIN in the FUTURE.

They......being Harry Reid. Tell us, how many house led efforts to curb spending has he ever allowed a vote on.

 

[Vox]

Where does the Constitution give taxpayers the right to set the debt ceiling?

where it does give them the responsibility to pay taxes[/B][/SIZE]

Seriously? You don't know this?

16th Amendment

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

SERIOUSLY? You did not know this

Article One of the United States Constitution describes the powers of Congress, the legislative branch of the federal government. The Article establishes the powers of and limitations on the Congress, consisting of a House of Representatives composed of Representatives, with each state gaining or losing representation in proportion to its population, and a Senate, composed of two Senators from each state. The article details the manner of election and qualifications of members of each House. It outlines legislative procedure and enumerates the powers vested in the legislative branch. Finally, it establishes limits on the powers of both Congress and the states.

who elects the Congress? and who pays them? duh

 

[Vox]

Instead of raising the debt ceiling yet again, why don't they take that money out of spending in order to pay the bill? You know, real, true spending cuts?

Good question zoom, but they have had years to do this, they KNEW the new debt ceiling was coming....

Congress has failed us...instead of truly doing their jobs and coming up with cuts that are mutually agreed upon, they are playing games....games that will HURT US ALL, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE ONE IS ON.

the debt ceiling is for what has been SPENT ALREADY....

Making budget cuts and reducing the deficit, will help us not have to raise the debt ceiling AGAIN in the FUTURE.

Nope. it can be done in the same bill that raises the debt ceiling. otherwise "the future" NEVER comes.

 

[kwc57]

Instead the Bank of China opens its' doors wide and asks its' best customer how much more credit do you want?

Yesssss.......and they will end up owning and controlling the US without firing a single shot. Think about it. What happens when you can't make your mortgage or car payment.

Depends on what they buy from us. The $ are no good except in purchasing in the US $ zone.

So what is wrong with making and selling stuff?

We aren't talking about what they are buying. We are talking about what they are lending.....and some day the bill comes due. Quit making your car payment and see how long before the bank has Butch and Vinnie backing the wrecker up to "your" car in your driveway to tow it away and sell it to recover costs. We are selling our soul to the devil.

 

[itfitzme]

I really don't see how some folks are ever gonna get it except staight up. The household analogy is pure bullshit. If you hang onto that bs, you'll never understand how macro econ and govt works.

no, your denial is a pure bullshit.
"we can spend all we want, because we don't have to pay it now" - that is the bullshit explanation, or the other "perfect" one - we have to borrow, because the interest rate is low

as if it can not be raised any time the creditors feel like it.

you really are idiots

No dude, I know, in detail, how the economy and US govt works. You present nothing except "OMG!!"

There is nothing to deny because you've presented nothing.

I haven't said what you claim I've said. Not even implied it. You're making that up out of you own bs.

Show the mechanism thay backs up your "OMG". You can't because you can't be detailed and specific except with bs analogies.

The only mechanism is that at some point intrest equals revenue. So? Then it is just back to where you say it has to be anyways.

 

[itfitzme]

Yesssss.......and they will end up owning and controlling the US without firing a single shot. Think about it. What happens when you can't make your mortgage or car payment.

Depends on what they buy from us. The $ are no good except in purchasing in the US $ zone.

So what is wrong with making and selling stuff?

We aren't talking about what they are buying. We are talking about what they are lending.....and some day the bill comes due. Quit making your car payment and see how long before the bank has Butch and Vinnie backing the wrecker up to "your" car in your driveway to tow it away and sell it to recover costs. We are selling our soul to the devil.

What do you think they do with the money? They either buy with it, put it in a savings account at the Fed(thats the bond), or smoke it.

If you aren't going to look at ALL of the system, your don't know what your talking about.

You're just making up shit. Where do you think the money came from?

 

[Derideo_Te]

where it does give them the responsibility to pay taxes[/B][/SIZE]

Seriously? You don't know this?

16th Amendment

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

SERIOUSLY? You did not know this

Article One of the United States Constitution describes the powers of Congress, the legislative branch of the federal government. The Article establishes the powers of and limitations on the Congress, consisting of a House of Representatives composed of Representatives, with each state gaining or losing representation in proportion to its population, and a Senate, composed of two Senators from each state. The article details the manner of election and qualifications of members of each House. It outlines legislative procedure and enumerates the powers vested in the legislative branch. Finally, it establishes limits on the powers of both Congress and the states.

who elects the Congress? and who pays them? duh

Strike two!

Not all taxpayers are voters and not all voters are taxpayers.

 

[Vox]

By this logic, we could raise the debt ceiling to 900 trillion and not have to pay high interest rates for years. Would that be a responsible and accountable thing to do?

No, you are creating bs logic with no reality of the govt and economy first appropriately defined. It doesn't follow, given how the govt and economy works.

Please explain and elaborate on the bs part of it because I do have knowledge of how agencies and departments work within the govt along with the private sector. We have now gone from 10 trillion to 17 trillion without raising rates. We are doing this not by paying off debt but paying on interest accrued under these staggering numbers. There will be a point in which this collapses.

he won't. he is simply denying that his idol obama has accumulated more debt than all others combined:

Obama inauguration, when the accrued debt was $6.307 trillion, to the end of fiscal year 2013, when the debt is projected to reach $12.784 trillion. Yes, more than the previous 43 presidents.

and that is a projected data from 2011, so we know that they were MODEST - we are already at 17 trillion

 

[Vox]

Seriously? You don't know this?

SERIOUSLY? You did not know this

Article One of the United States Constitution describes the powers of Congress, the legislative branch of the federal government. The Article establishes the powers of and limitations on the Congress, consisting of a House of Representatives composed of Representatives, with each state gaining or losing representation in proportion to its population, and a Senate, composed of two Senators from each state. The article details the manner of election and qualifications of members of each House. It outlines legislative procedure and enumerates the powers vested in the legislative branch. Finally, it establishes limits on the powers of both Congress and the states.

who elects the Congress? and who pays them? duh

Strike two!

Not all taxpayers are voters and not all voters are taxpayers.

are you dumb?

so what?
the legislative branch is payed by TAXPAYER'S money. which means they are taxpayer's employees. and are responsible to TAXPAYER.
if they don't vote - that is THEIR problem

 

[itfitzme]

I might be the "others"

Actually, no you won't. General tax levels have no effect on your consumption level. It is just extra accounting riding along. What matters is employment and productivity.

yes, they do. they have DIRECT effect on the consumption level.

increased taxation in a stagnating economy ( a.k.a. US economy under obamanomics) decreases employment and productivity

That is a short term effect in a down economy. In the medium and long run, they don't mean shit. We shouldn't have lowered taxes to far in the first place.

In the long run, production produces as much as it can and consumption is as
much as is produced. The generql tax levels don't mean shit. Prices adjust to spendable income. It must.

Short term effects only happen if the rat of change is large. If the rate of change is small, taxes have no short term effect on output and spending,

The problem is, you don't have an accurate and precise representation in your mind.