Wyoming welder faces $75,000 a day in EPA fines for building pond on his property

[AntiParty]

Again it is HIS land......now trust me, I KNOW that a good "collectivist" like you hasn't a clue as to what "land ownership" means.....but tough shit. He OWNS it.

While it is his land, it's not his water and that seems to be the issue here. However, the EPA is very much out of control and they are the literal jack-booted thugs when they want to be.

It's not about the water, it's about the control.

That IS the standard of the hard Right......

When there is a problem in society and Government ( an institution made from our Founders on a document called the Constitution) try to develop a response to a significant flaw.................people reply with "They just want control"

Our entire Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity. This inability to think about where the line is for "Control" blows my mind.

I tend to see the Right Wing much more controlling than the Left Wing.

But if this OP thread is true and not just another "I'll shoot myself and blame it on the class I hate" type of person that Fox News loves to report on and never appoligizes for when it's exposed as a lie...........

Then hey, yea. This is pretty controlling. But "WORD OF ONE PERSONS MOUTH" isn't media.........

 

[asterism]

It's not about the water, it's about the control.

By the EPA's thuggery actions that's true. However, the overall point is that this guy should not have diverted the flow of water without approval from the proper authorities and in the end not have built this pond in this way. It's his land but the water that flows through it is not his.

This didn't spring up out of nowhere, someone downstream raised a valid complaint I think. Water rights are a really really big deal in Wyoming.

He had their approval, that is the entire point. The EPA jumped in after the fact and demanded that he comply with a bunch of regulations regarding dams when he built a cattle pond, which they, quite specifically, have no authority over.

If you impede the flow of water, that's a dam. He didn't build a cattle pond, the description clearly states that is not that.

You may think that it the EPA and the Corps of Engineers don't have authority over streams, but in some instances "navigable waterway" means that in theory at certain times of the year one could row a canoe down some length of the waterway. It makes no sense and I don't remember the details but there was a case of a stream in Florida where an owner of an orange grove had to remove a temporary dam he built between a spring and a sinkhole on his land. So the water was bubbling up on his land and it was draining into a sink on the same parcel of land and he was allowed to draw from the stream to irrigate his orange trees but he wasn't allowed to store any of it.

This was in the 1970s.

 

[asterism]

While it is his land, it's not his water and that seems to be the issue here. However, the EPA is very much out of control and they are the literal jack-booted thugs when they want to be.

It's not about the water, it's about the control.

That IS the standard of the hard Right......

When there is a problem in society and Government ( an institution made from our Founders on a document called the Constitution) try to develop a response to a significant flaw.................people reply with "They just want control"

Our entire Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity. This inability to think about where the line is for "Control" blows my mind.

I tend to see the Right Wing much more controlling than the Left Wing.

But if this OP thread is true and not just another "I'll shoot myself and blame it on the class I hate" type of person that Fox News loves to report on and never appoligizes for when it's exposed as a lie...........

Then hey, yea. This is pretty controlling. But "WORD OF ONE PERSONS MOUTH" isn't media.........

I'm sure you do. One day you'll see that they are both sides of the same poison coin. Until then, enjoy the Progressive Utopia. This is about as good as your side's model is going to get.

Remember, the heyday of the 1990s happened with the President (Clinton) conceded to the fiscal constraints demanded by the Republicans. Clinton was not Obama on economics and compromise and Clinton was not a Progressive.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[OKTexas]

While it is his land, it's not his water and that seems to be the issue here. However, the EPA is very much out of control and they are the literal jack-booted thugs when they want to be.

It's not about the water, it's about the control.

That IS the standard of the hard Right......

When there is a problem in society and Government ( an institution made from our Founders on a document called the Constitution) try to develop a response to a significant flaw.................people reply with "They just want control"

Our entire Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity. This inability to think about where the line is for "Control" blows my mind.

I tend to see the Right Wing much more controlling than the Left Wing.

But if this OP thread is true and not just another "I'll shoot myself and blame it on the class I hate" type of person that Fox News loves to report on and never appoligizes for when it's exposed as a lie...........

Then hey, yea. This is pretty controlling. But "WORD OF ONE PERSONS MOUTH" isn't media.........

You might want to sit down and actually read the Constitution and then read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-federalist papers. By the time you finish you might understand how wrong you really are. "Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity." REALLY?

 

[Moonglow]

It's not about the water, it's about the control.

That IS the standard of the hard Right......

When there is a problem in society and Government ( an institution made from our Founders on a document called the Constitution) try to develop a response to a significant flaw.................people reply with "They just want control"

Our entire Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity. This inability to think about where the line is for "Control" blows my mind.

I tend to see the Right Wing much more controlling than the Left Wing.

But if this OP thread is true and not just another "I'll shoot myself and blame it on the class I hate" type of person that Fox News loves to report on and never appoligizes for when it's exposed as a lie...........

Then hey, yea. This is pretty controlling. But "WORD OF ONE PERSONS MOUTH" isn't media.........

I'm sure you do. One day you'll see that they are both sides of the same poison coin. Until then, enjoy the Progressive Utopia. This is about as good as your side's model is going to get.

Remember, the heyday of the 1990s happened with the President (Clinton) conceded to the fiscal constraints demanded by the Republicans. Clinton was not Obama on economics and compromise and Clinton was not a Progressive.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

you'll also try to say that cities owning sidewalks in front of businesses as a collectivist state activity...

 

[AntiParty]

It's not about the water, it's about the control.

That IS the standard of the hard Right......

When there is a problem in society and Government ( an institution made from our Founders on a document called the Constitution) try to develop a response to a significant flaw.................people reply with "They just want control"

Our entire Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity. This inability to think about where the line is for "Control" blows my mind.

I tend to see the Right Wing much more controlling than the Left Wing.

But if this OP thread is true and not just another "I'll shoot myself and blame it on the class I hate" type of person that Fox News loves to report on and never appoligizes for when it's exposed as a lie...........

Then hey, yea. This is pretty controlling. But "WORD OF ONE PERSONS MOUTH" isn't media.........

I'm sure you do. One day you'll see that they are both sides of the same poison coin. Until then, enjoy the Progressive Utopia. This is about as good as your side's model is going to get.

Remember, the heyday of the 1990s happened with the President (Clinton) conceded to the fiscal constraints demanded by the Republicans. Clinton was not Obama on economics and compromise and Clinton was not a Progressive.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Someone selling "Antiparty" that both sides have a poison coin? Yet he/she swears to a Fox News post that I've already exposed the flaws about? Nothing says bias or even CULT like Fox News.

 

[candycorn]

All Andy Johnson wanted to do was build a stock pond on his sprawling eight-acre Wyoming farm. He and his wife Katie spent hours constructing it, filling it with crystal-clear water, and bringing in brook and brown trout, ducks and geese. It was a place where his horses could drink and graze, and a private playground for his three children

But instead of enjoying the fruits of his labor, the Wyoming welder says he was harangued by the federal government, stuck in what he calls a petty power play by the Environmental Protection AgencyHe claims the agency is now threatening him with civil and criminal penalties – including the threat of a $75,000-a-day fine.

Wyoming welder faces $75,000 a day in EPA fines for building pond on his property | Fox News

Fuck the EPA, Fuck the Gov.

Oh, Fox News. LOL

So Fox News is making a story based on the claims of a person....No surprise there, perfectly normal for Fox "News".

Since "corporations are people", if one of these large corporate farms in the Midwest wanted to choke off a river that runs through their land and simply create a giant reservoir for themselves to water their own crops only...it would be fine I suppose; you can do what you want with your own land; screw society...right?

 

[AntiParty]

All Andy Johnson wanted to do was build a stock pond on his sprawling eight-acre Wyoming farm. He and his wife Katie spent hours constructing it, filling it with crystal-clear water, and bringing in brook and brown trout, ducks and geese. It was a place where his horses could drink and graze, and a private playground for his three children

But instead of enjoying the fruits of his labor, the Wyoming welder says he was harangued by the federal government, stuck in what he calls a petty power play by the Environmental Protection AgencyHe claims the agency is now threatening him with civil and criminal penalties – including the threat of a $75,000-a-day fine.

Wyoming welder faces $75,000 a day in EPA fines for building pond on his property | Fox News

Fuck the EPA, Fuck the Gov.

Oh, Fox News. LOL

So Fox News is making a story based on the claims of a person....No surprise there, perfectly normal for Fox "News".

Since "corporations are people", if one of these large corporate farms in the Midwest wanted to choke off a river that runs through their land and simply create a giant reservoir for themselves to water their own crops only...it would be fine I suppose; you can do what you want with your own land; screw society...right?

Yea, the Corporate "people" don't even have to pay taxes, they even get taxes back when they make Billions due to loopholes.

I guess the moral of this story is the person involved wasn't a Corporate person. If he was he/she could dump toxic waste into a river and get away with it.

Again, the post was based on ONE PERSON stating what is probably a lie, even the article exposed that there is no proof. But the fish will bite if they are bias enough.

(Further, corporations are not people. No business can tell someone how to vote. Corporations are almost guaranteed to have both Left and Right Wing voters. They can not use funding earned by an opposing party on their TEAM to fund a politician. Say's me..)

 

[candycorn]

Oh, Fox News. LOL

So Fox News is making a story based on the claims of a person....No surprise there, perfectly normal for Fox "News".

Since "corporations are people", if one of these large corporate farms in the Midwest wanted to choke off a river that runs through their land and simply create a giant reservoir for themselves to water their own crops only...it would be fine I suppose; you can do what you want with your own land; screw society...right?

Yea, the Corporate "people" don't even have to pay taxes, they even get taxes back when they make Billions due to loopholes.

I guess the moral of this story is the person involved wasn't a Corporate person. If he was he/she could dump toxic waste into a river and get away with it.

Again, the post was based on ONE PERSON stating what is probably a lie, even the article exposed that there is no proof. But the fish will bite if they are bias enough.

Well, I don't know if it is a lie. Being Fox news, the odds are pretty good some details are omitted and other are highlighted to emphasize a particular viewpoint. However what is clear is that there are some who feel that if you own something, you can do whatever you want with it regardless of how it affects others. I live in Arizona and water is pretty scarce out here in the west; it's taken pretty seriously.

From what I understand there is a stream that is running through his land and he built a dam there to create a more stationary body of water. As long as the dam, the body of water and where the outflow from that body of water that returns it to the stream is all in his land and there is no net loss of water flowing downstream...I don't see a problem with what he did. If he's capturing the water and re-directing it to farmland and those downstream are not getting what they once received...then there seems to be some sort of place for the authorities.

Not sure what the guy did or didn't do. My point was that nobody operates in a vacuum.

 

[asterism]

That IS the standard of the hard Right......

When there is a problem in society and Government ( an institution made from our Founders on a document called the Constitution) try to develop a response to a significant flaw.................people reply with "They just want control"

Our entire Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity. This inability to think about where the line is for "Control" blows my mind.

I tend to see the Right Wing much more controlling than the Left Wing.

But if this OP thread is true and not just another "I'll shoot myself and blame it on the class I hate" type of person that Fox News loves to report on and never appoligizes for when it's exposed as a lie...........

Then hey, yea. This is pretty controlling. But "WORD OF ONE PERSONS MOUTH" isn't media.........

I'm sure you do. One day you'll see that they are both sides of the same poison coin. Until then, enjoy the Progressive Utopia. This is about as good as your side's model is going to get.

Remember, the heyday of the 1990s happened with the President (Clinton) conceded to the fiscal constraints demanded by the Republicans. Clinton was not Obama on economics and compromise and Clinton was not a Progressive.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

you'll also try to say that cities owning sidewalks in front of businesses as a collectivist state activity...

Not true. Good luck trying to show me saying anything close to that.

 

[freedombecki]

All Andy Johnson wanted to do was build a stock pond on his sprawling eight-acre Wyoming farm. He and his wife Katie spent hours constructing it, filling it with crystal-clear water, and bringing in brook and brown trout, ducks and geese. It was a place where his horses could drink and graze, and a private playground for his three children

But instead of enjoying the fruits of his labor, the Wyoming welder says he was harangued by the federal government, stuck in what he calls a petty power play by the Environmental Protection AgencyHe claims the agency is now threatening him with civil and criminal penalties – including the threat of a $75,000-a-day fine.

Wyoming welder faces $75,000 a day in EPA fines for building pond on his property | Fox News

Fuck the EPA, Fuck the Gov.

Oh, Fox News. LOL

So Fox News is making a story based on the claims of a person....No surprise there, perfectly normal for Fox "News".

Fancy that! Someone sticks up for the little guy, and some leftist leaner thinks it's pernicious.

 

[Contumacious]

All Andy Johnson wanted to do was build a stock pond on his sprawling eight-acre Wyoming farm. He and his wife Katie spent hours constructing it, filling it with crystal-clear water, and bringing in brook and brown trout, ducks and geese. It was a place where his horses could drink and graze, and a private playground for his three children

But instead of enjoying the fruits of his labor, the Wyoming welder says he was harangued by the federal government, stuck in what he calls a petty power play by the Environmental Protection AgencyHe claims the agency is now threatening him with civil and criminal penalties – including the threat of a $75,000-a-day fine. .

I do not understand how the Johnsons concluded that we are still a free country.

Send them a text message and inform them that we are now a welfare/warfare police state.

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You didnt include the "why". I guess to get a knee jerk reaction but the EPA should leave them alone

There is no "why"....
The EPA landed on this guy because they can.....
This issue is being perpetrated on this family only to demonstrate the heavy hand of government is LAW.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The guy got a legal permit and followed the rules. He has documentation to prove he did. Fuck the EPA. They, like many other government agencies, have become oppressive and abuse their power.

This is the same agency that says we can't catch rain water in barrels because the rain doesn't belong to us. They'd rather have people's gardens die out from lack of rain or make people run up their water bill and waste water instead of using the free rain.

He also adhered to all state guidelines and was permitted by the state.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

By the EPA's thuggery actions that's true. However, the overall point is that this guy should not have diverted the flow of water without approval from the proper authorities and in the end not have built this pond in this way. It's his land but the water that flows through it is not his.

This didn't spring up out of nowhere, someone downstream raised a valid complaint I think. Water rights are a really really big deal in Wyoming.

He had their approval, that is the entire point. The EPA jumped in after the fact and demanded that he comply with a bunch of regulations regarding dams when he built a cattle pond, which they, quite specifically, have no authority over.

If you impede the flow of water, that's a dam. He didn't build a cattle pond, the description clearly states that is not that.

You may think that it the EPA and the Corps of Engineers don't have authority over streams, but in some instances "navigable waterway" means that in theory at certain times of the year one could row a canoe down some length of the waterway. It makes no sense and I don't remember the details but there was a case of a stream in Florida where an owner of an orange grove had to remove a temporary dam he built between a spring and a sinkhole on his land. So the water was bubbling up on his land and it was draining into a sink on the same parcel of land and he was allowed to draw from the stream to irrigate his orange trees but he wasn't allowed to store any of it.

This was in the 1970s.

Prove he impeded the flow of water and we will deal with this on why I think the EPA shouldn't be regulating creeks. Until you do that, I am going with the guy is 100% innocent. The EPA has an actual history of making unreasonable demands, and then claiming that the people they are moving against cannot take the case to court because they aren't initiating legal proceedings, even though they are levying fines.

Sackett v. Environmental Protection Agency : SCOTUSblog

(Side note, how can you not love the name of this case?)

All I have as evidence against this couple is the claim of the EPA, which has an actual history of abuse.

The only way you are going to be right here is if you show me a dam that is not actually a specifically built cattle pond.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That IS the standard of the hard Right......

When there is a problem in society and Government ( an institution made from our Founders on a document called the Constitution) try to develop a response to a significant flaw.................people reply with "They just want control"

Our entire Government was kind of based on control of unnecessary activity. This inability to think about where the line is for "Control" blows my mind.

I tend to see the Right Wing much more controlling than the Left Wing.

But if this OP thread is true and not just another "I'll shoot myself and blame it on the class I hate" type of person that Fox News loves to report on and never appoligizes for when it's exposed as a lie...........

Then hey, yea. This is pretty controlling. But "WORD OF ONE PERSONS MOUTH" isn't media.........

I'm sure you do. One day you'll see that they are both sides of the same poison coin. Until then, enjoy the Progressive Utopia. This is about as good as your side's model is going to get.

Remember, the heyday of the 1990s happened with the President (Clinton) conceded to the fiscal constraints demanded by the Republicans. Clinton was not Obama on economics and compromise and Clinton was not a Progressive.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Someone selling "Antiparty" that both sides have a poison coin? Yet he/she swears to a Fox News post that I've already exposed the flaws about? Nothing says bias or even CULT like Fox News.

Hey, genius, asterism has been arguing against the position of the story in Fox.

I guess that makes you the idiot.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What makes this guy think that the water in a creek that has egress on his property is HIS water?

Riparian Rights legal definition of Riparian Rights. Riparian Rights synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary...
The pond construction does not STOP the flow of water down stream. Is exempt under EPA rules governing "wildlife"...
Your argument is that same one used by landowners adjacent to one who is drilling a well on his property. That the "upstream" owner who digs a well is "taking" water from landowners downstream of the well.
That is where riparian rights come into play.
Your argument is a FAIL.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The guy got a legal permit and followed the rules. He has documentation to prove he did. Fuck the EPA. They, like many other government agencies, have become oppressive and abuse their power.

This is the same agency that says we can't catch rain water in barrels because the rain doesn't belong to us. They'd rather have people's gardens die out from lack of rain or make people run up their water bill and waste water instead of using the free rain.

Please post a link.

Argument out of gas already?
Suppose this was YOUR land?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

[thereisnospoon]

The Army Corps of Engineers is in control of the banks of rivers, and lakes.. My Dad had to replace trees that were cut down when they built their house by the lake, if he failed to do so he would have fined also.

You really have no idea where this pond is and if he built a dam into the pond area.....so assumptions for opinions will make your argument weak at best....

Why do you libs side with government whenever individual rights are introduced into the equation?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Aren't the vast majority of faux ?news? contributors teabaggers?

And the majority of teabagger support comes from two guys that the EPA has targeted justly.

Koch Industries | PolluterWatch

And now we have the rest of the story!

And this has fuckall to do with what?

faux not telling the whole story. They tend to do that since the average age of a faux watcher is 68, or as I call it; 'the dementia class.'

And you are part of the parasite class.