Yes, it was all a lie about Obamacare

[healthmyths]

Yes, but not as much so as in years past.

Well, would it still not be fair to say, then, that these so-called death panels aren't really different than the decision-making bodies of private insurance firms?

Insurance companies make decisions as to whether a procedure is covered under the terms of the policy. Their decision is not really about healthcare but an interpretation of the contract. If you appeal, you are no longer at the mercy of the insurance company's medical panel. Also due to ACA, pre-existing conditions and lifetime maximums are no longer an issue.

Since there are no government death panels, I can't make a comparison with a myth.

It appears YOU have little or NO knowledge of risk assessment, i.e. what actuaries do.
For example you want to have complete health coverage by some entity that will exchange some value for a physician to perform a service.
That in a nutshell is what an insurance company does.
In exchange for dollars companies will pay claims.
The question really is how much of the dollars go out to pay the claims and if MORE comes in then goes out the company can pay people to handle the claims
and pay a profit to the investors that put up the original money to start the company, i.e. profits.

NOW because NONE of the members of congress and much less Obama and his people HAD NO real day to day knowledge of how that works, they
assumed insurance companies are greedy evil profiteers.

NOT believing the financial statements that show insurance companies pay out an average of 80% of all premiums in claims leaving 20% to pay out salaries,etc. and 4% net profit to the investors, ACA idiots are mandating two totally incompatible requirements:
1) The idiots raised the medical liability ratio to 85%... and said oh just take it out of those rich executives salaries and shareholders profits. RIGHT
2) And these idiots furthermore added "oh by the way, you won't be able to raise rates for "pre-existing conditions".. because we are compassionate elitists that
know you can take EVERYONE because you are filthy evil profiteers and use that money."

So these golden goose killers are eliminating insurance companies. Which is their ultimate goal!
NOT considering that if there is JUST ONE GIGANTIC SINGLE "PAYER" there is no more consumer choices.
There is no efficiencies gained because the operating costs NEVER were the major cost driver... CLAIMS are! Executive salaries?? less then 2/10ths of one %!

And so you ignorant people that have thought ACA's eliminating "pre-existing conditions" was such a great idea... WAIT!
Wait and watch 1,300 insurance companies go out of health insurance business. Watch $100 billion a year in Federal/State/Local taxes vanish!
Watch 400,000 people get laid off collecting for 99 weeks over $12 billion more!

Then see how much "health insurance premiums" will cost! NOTHING because there will be no value offered as there is now!
Why should any physician take less then they are taking now? Surveys are showing physicians dropping out! Shortages and guess what you totally ignorant people...
WAITING IN LINES will be the RULE! YOU think waiting is bad now... ???

 

[Hyrcanus]

Cheapest policy according to the IRS will be $20,000/yr. Where is all my savings from Obamacare??
IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family | CNS News

for a family of 5.

that's $4k a year per person.

$333 a month for one person. That's not horrible.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Cheapest policy according to the IRS will be $20,000/yr. Where is all my savings from Obamacare??
IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family | CNS News

for a family of 5.

that's $4k a year per person.

$333 a month for one person. That's not horrible.

That's $20 for FOUR people.
Who the hell has $333 per month per person...For Christ's sake that is three weeks worth of groceries for each of the four people in the home each month.
And that $20 is for the most basic coverage. Which is essentially nothing care..

 

[Dragonlady]

I live in Canada and we pay less than $4000 per year for full family coverage, including dental. And our rates in Canada are higher than Europe because of our proximity to the US and the potential for doctors to go south for better reimbursement rates.

You people are on drugs to have allowed big medicine to screw you over like this.

 

[EriktheRed]

I live in Canada and we pay less than $4000 per year for full family coverage, including dental. And our rates in Canada are higher than Europe because of our proximity to the US and the potential for doctors to go south for better reimbursement rates.

You people are on drugs to have allowed big medicine to screw you over like this.

Nah, to the Teabaggers, corporate America's scrotum tastes like FREEDOM!™




(Here it comes...)

 

[Shoey]

One of the principle justifications for the lawsuits opposing the recent Health Care bill is that it requires individuals to purchase health insurance premiums. They're notable reasons for this legislation declared unconstitutional by four Supreme Court justices when we examine the 10th Amendment ,a violation of the Rights of the People and the States, Article I Section 8 and the 16th Amendment's authority to tax, the fines do not represent a tax on income nor at they apportioned based upon state populace. When a individual is forced into entering into a contract with The Federal government then it should be rendered unconstitutional. That violates the Property Rights of the Individual and violates contract law where all contracts must be entered into voluntarily without force or coercion. "Obamcare" violates the Rights of the Individual and contract law which is the fundamental reason why this legislation is unconstitutional. The U.S government should never force a person into becoming a party to a contract against their will.

 

[idb]

One of the principle justifications for the lawsuits opposing the recent Health Care bill is that it requires individuals to purchase health insurance premiums. They're notable reasons for this legislation declared unconstitutional by four Supreme Court justices when we examine the 10th Amendment ,a violation of the Rights of the People and the States, Article I Section 8 and the 16th Amendment's authority to tax, the fines do not represent a tax on income nor at they apportioned based upon state populace. When a individual is forced into entering into a contract with The Federal government then it should be rendered unconstitutional. That violates the Property Rights of the Individual and violates contract law where all contracts must be entered into voluntarily without force or coercion. "Obamcare" violates the Rights of the Individual and contract law which is the fundamental reason why this legislation is unconstitutional. The U.S government should never force a person into becoming a party to a contract against their will.

Didn't the Supreme Court say it was constitutional...or was I watching a different show?

 

[Dragonlady]

The U.S government should never force a person into becoming a party to a contract against their will.

You're forced to buy car insurance in order to drive a car. That's not federal, but rather state law. I'm a safe driver. I've never been in an accident. I've never had a speeding ticket. Why should I have to buy insurance?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The U.S government should never force a person into becoming a party to a contract against their will.

You're forced to buy car insurance in order to drive a car. That's not federal, but rather state law. I'm a safe driver. I've never been in an accident. I've never had a speeding ticket. Why should I have to buy insurance?

You have to buy insurance because there is a certain amount of risk involved, to yourself AND others in operating an automobile.
Insurance is a little about what you have done and in the majority what you COULD do.
These are the reasons why States compel auto operators to be insured.
The option is to NOT own or operate automobiles and thus, one is not compelled to purchase auto insurance.
The federal government here in the States has mandated that everyone purchase health insurance. The reason they give is "you are a living person".
Big difference.
And the reason why Chief Justice Roberts who was feeling pressure to preserve Obama care, ruled that Obama care is a tax and NOT commerce.
Had Roberts gone the other way and opined that Obama care was Commerce, the entire law would have failed to stand up to Constitutional muster and would have been scuttled.

 

[thereisnospoon]

One of the principle justifications for the lawsuits opposing the recent Health Care bill is that it requires individuals to purchase health insurance premiums. They're notable reasons for this legislation declared unconstitutional by four Supreme Court justices when we examine the 10th Amendment ,a violation of the Rights of the People and the States, Article I Section 8 and the 16th Amendment's authority to tax, the fines do not represent a tax on income nor at they apportioned based upon state populace. When a individual is forced into entering into a contract with The Federal government then it should be rendered unconstitutional. That violates the Property Rights of the Individual and violates contract law where all contracts must be entered into voluntarily without force or coercion. "Obamcare" violates the Rights of the Individual and contract law which is the fundamental reason why this legislation is unconstitutional. The U.S government should never force a person into becoming a party to a contract against their will.

Didn't the Supreme Court say it was constitutional...or was I watching a different show?

Yes, SCOTUS narrow ruling 5-4, that ACA is a tax and therefore Constitutional under the 16th Amendment. 4 Justices saw it differently. They saw ACA as Commerce.
Chief Justice Roberts broke the 4-4 deadlock and ruled in favor of the Respondent( federal government) that ACA is Constitutional in a narrow opinion that ACA is indeed a tax.

 

[idb]

One of the principle justifications for the lawsuits opposing the recent Health Care bill is that it requires individuals to purchase health insurance premiums. They're notable reasons for this legislation declared unconstitutional by four Supreme Court justices when we examine the 10th Amendment ,a violation of the Rights of the People and the States, Article I Section 8 and the 16th Amendment's authority to tax, the fines do not represent a tax on income nor at they apportioned based upon state populace. When a individual is forced into entering into a contract with The Federal government then it should be rendered unconstitutional. That violates the Property Rights of the Individual and violates contract law where all contracts must be entered into voluntarily without force or coercion. "Obamcare" violates the Rights of the Individual and contract law which is the fundamental reason why this legislation is unconstitutional. The U.S government should never force a person into becoming a party to a contract against their will.

Didn't the Supreme Court say it was constitutional...or was I watching a different show?

Yes, SCOTUS narrow ruling 5-4, that ACA is a tax and therefore Constitutional under the 16th Amendment. 4 Justices saw it differently. They saw ACA as Commerce.
Chief Justice Roberts broke the 4-4 deadlock and ruled in favor of the Respondent( federal government) that ACA is Constitutional in a narrow opinion that ACA is indeed a tax.

That's what I thought
So, despite the claims by opponents, the ACA is unconstitutional...end of story.

**edit**
Ummm, that would be 'constitutional', wouldn't it...............................hides in corner

 

[EriktheRed]

Didn't the Supreme Court say it was constitutional...or was I watching a different show?

Yes, SCOTUS narrow ruling 5-4, that ACA is a tax and therefore Constitutional under the 16th Amendment. 4 Justices saw it differently. They saw ACA as Commerce.
Chief Justice Roberts broke the 4-4 deadlock and ruled in favor of the Respondent( federal government) that ACA is Constitutional in a narrow opinion that ACA is indeed a tax.

That's what I thought
So, despite the claims by opponents, the ACA is unconstitutional...end of story.

Uh....did you mean to put that "un" in front of "constitutional"?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Didn't the Supreme Court say it was constitutional...or was I watching a different show?

Yes, SCOTUS narrow ruling 5-4, that ACA is a tax and therefore Constitutional under the 16th Amendment. 4 Justices saw it differently. They saw ACA as Commerce.
Chief Justice Roberts broke the 4-4 deadlock and ruled in favor of the Respondent( federal government) that ACA is Constitutional in a narrow opinion that ACA is indeed a tax.

That's what I thought
So, despite the claims by opponents, the ACA is unconstitutional...end of story.

Yes, based on the legal opinion of 5 SCOTUS Justices who decided ACA is a tax and not Commerce and therefore not in violation of the US Constitution.
It was indeed a sad day for the People.

 

[American_Jihad]

If you dislike Obamacare, support the Read the Bills Act

By James Wilson
March 13, 2013

Quote of the Day: "But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy." — Nancy Pelosi

"Unforeseen" costs of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) are higher than projected.

Is this a surprise?

It's the natural result of supporting bloated bills no one reads or understands.

That's why I told Congress to introduce and pass the Read the Bills Act.

You may borrow from or copy this letter...

...

If you dislike Obamacare, support the Read the Bills Act

If the obongocare was so great why do the unions and other liberal ilk want waivers...

Bills are long, complicated and expensive in order to get support from both parties. The immigration bill is now up to 1075 pages more 150 pages longer than Obamacare. Originally, it was about 500 pages. We are already spending 18 billion on boarder security and this bill will add 4.5 billion just for boarder security. We will have an immigration agent for every 1000 feet of boarder. We will be spending more on immigration control and security than all other law enforcement combined This is why you will have strong GOP support from the House because it allows those congressman to return home and campaign on what they have done to secure our borders. In addition to this we have grants to boarder states for training, public relations, FEMA, local enforcement and all kinds of crap in order to get support for the bill.

This is how the game is played.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9_kAGU1uX0]Nancy Pelosi pass the bill - YouTube[/ame]

...

 

[hazlnut]

Cheapest policy according to the IRS will be $20,000/yr. Where is all my savings from Obamacare??
IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family | CNS News

CNS = sure sign of fringe right poster.


Thanks for playing.


End thread/

 

[American_Jihad]

Cheapest policy according to the IRS will be $20,000/yr. Where is all my savings from Obamacare??
IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family | CNS News

CNS = sure sign of fringe right poster.


Thanks for playing.


End thread/

And the thread keeps going, hey nutsack you don't have any clout beatch...

 

[Greenbeard]

Cheapest policy according to the IRS will be $20,000/yr. Where is all my savings from Obamacare??
IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family | CNS News

for a family of 5.

that's $4k a year per person.

$333 a month for one person. That's not horrible.

That's $20 for FOUR people.
Who the hell has $333 per month per person...For Christ's sake that is three weeks worth of groceries for each of the four people in the home each month.
And that $20 is for the most basic coverage. Which is essentially nothing care..

In California's exchange, the statewide average for the cheapest bronze coverage available--the coverage this thread and that claim are ostensibly about--to a family of four is $657/month or $7,884 annually (see page 17). That's before any subsidy they get. More generous silver plans can be bought by the same family for less than $10,000/year--again, before any subsidies are applied.

The $20,000 number was always a myth. One that appears to persist in some quarters, even though actual prices are now available.

 

[Mac1958]

.

So I was having beers yesterday with a close friend -- including an incredible special-run IPA with a 10.2% alcohol content that pretty much knocked both of us on our butts, holy shit -- an executive in the medical software industry, and he brought something up that I hadn't even considered.

The medical software industry (billing, coding, etc.) is currently in a fucking panic because Our Great & Glorious Leaders In Central Planning™ have not yet gotten around to issuing final rules, regulations and expectations on what needs to be included in the software. That one's a long story in itself, but then he said that Our Great & Glorious Leaders In Central Planning™ have also warned them to expect new, new regs that will essentially quadruple the amount of codes that will be required. In short, one big mess is on the way.

He's slowly selling his stock in the company and says he plans to be out of the industry in 18 months. He loves his job, but it's pretty common knowledge in his company that things are headed in one direction. This guy isn't a loon by any stretch, but he says there can be no way that Our Great & Glorious Leaders In Central Planning™ can be doing this by accident.

The Dems should have forced a national debate on Single Payer before they wrote this pig, because at least we would have been prepared for what's on the way. That would have been the honest thing to do.

It was at that point that I changed the subject to the recent NBA draft, because we wanted to enjoy ourselves.

.

 

[Freewill]

for a family of 5.

that's $4k a year per person.

$333 a month for one person. That's not horrible.

That's $20 for FOUR people.
Who the hell has $333 per month per person...For Christ's sake that is three weeks worth of groceries for each of the four people in the home each month.
And that $20 is for the most basic coverage. Which is essentially nothing care..

In California's exchange, the statewide average for the cheapest bronze coverage available--the coverage this thread and that claim are ostensibly about--to a family of four is $657/month or $7,884 annually (see page 17). That's before any subsidy they get. More generous silver plans can be bought by the same family for less than $10,000/year--again, before any subsidies are applied.

The $20,000 number was always a myth. One that appears to persist in some quarters, even though actual prices are now available.

Have you ever seen the cost estimates from the government ever be higher then what actually occurs?

 

[The Rabbi]

for a family of 5.

that's $4k a year per person.

$333 a month for one person. That's not horrible.

That's $20 for FOUR people.
Who the hell has $333 per month per person...For Christ's sake that is three weeks worth of groceries for each of the four people in the home each month.
And that $20 is for the most basic coverage. Which is essentially nothing care..

In California's exchange, the statewide average for the cheapest bronze coverage available--the coverage this thread and that claim are ostensibly about--to a family of four is $657/month or $7,884 annually (see page 17). That's before any subsidy they get. More generous silver plans can be bought by the same family for less than $10,000/year--again, before any subsidies are applied.

The $20,000 number was always a myth. One that appears to persist in some quarters, even though actual prices are now available.

You neglect to mention that it is more expensive than plans they can get now. And that they will be forced to buy expensive plans.
But never mind.