Yes Mr Desantis, the Palestinians are indigenous

[rylah]

Abraham's father made idols and lived in Urfa. Definitely a Canaanite.

Making id(e)ologies and following them are different things.

Cana'anites weren't Semites, but I don't expect

Arab imperialists know the local history.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Do you know what indigenous means?

Evolution's Sore Losers

 

[surada]

Indigenous means "we were here first". Lands in the ME have swapped ownership there for millennia. Can so called Palestinians prove they were there before any other people throughout human history? No.

This is saying that Palestinians and Jews are descendants of indigenous Canaanites.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Abraham was a Canaanite from Urfa near Haran.

False..
.

Abraham was a Canaanite from Urfa near Haran.

Ur of the Chaldees - Bible History

bible-history.com

Ur of the Chaldees.

 

[badger2]

Indigenous DNA will be difficult to prove because what populated the Levant were migrating African hominids. These were likely already theogonic, so Islam and Judaism originated in Africa, were religions indigenous to Africa.

 

[surada]

Yep, he tried to kill Abraham as well. Typical of one who follows Satan...Trying to kill the Prophet Abraham so that Israel would never come into existence.

Abraham destroyed a bunch of idols if I remember. So Israel wouldn't come into existence? Is that from the book of Abraham?

 

[surada]

False..
.

Ur of the Chaldees - Bible History

bible-history.com

Ur of the Chaldees.

There was no Ur of the Chaldees.

Have we erred on Ur?

For years, most Bible readers have assumed that Abraham’s hometown should be identified with the great city of Ur, located in southern Mesopotamia, an

goodfaithmedia.org

 

[surada]

Indigenous DNA will be difficult to prove because what populated the Levant were migrating African hominids. These were likely already theogonic, so Islam and Judaism originated in Africa, were religions indigenous to Africa.

Arabia isn't in Africa.

 

[surada]

While interesting as history, today there is no nation called palestine. Chatting it up about the past does not change that at all. IF there is no nation, there is no such thing as Palestinians. It seems as if a few countries call them that.

They have always been called Palestinian Arabs.

 

[badger2]

Arabia isn't in Africa.

That changes nothing in the post.

 

[Manonthestreet]

There was no Ur of the Chaldees.

Have we erred on Ur?

For years, most Bible readers have assumed that Abraham’s hometown should be identified with the great city of Ur, located in southern Mesopotamia, an

goodfaithmedia.org

Lmao.....Make up crap as ya go.....

 

[Cougarbear]

Abraham destroyed a bunch of idols if I remember. So Israel wouldn't come into existence? Is that from the book of Abraham?

It's from logic and reasoning...

 

[MinTrut]

Some will find this disturbing, but they have learned a lot from DNA and archaeology. Plus, they have tablets from the Ugarit in Ras Shamra. So they are brothers.

Yes, Mr. DeSantis, Palestinians are Indigenous, Descended from the Canaanites, and Palestinian Identity is not New

Ann Arbor (Informed Comment) - Here is Part 2 of my argument with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis concerning his uninformed and bigoted comments about Palestinians. Part I is here Who are the Palestinians? Nowadays, they are the Arabic-speaking inhabitants of the area stretching from the Jordan...

www.juancole.com

What we now call Palestinians are for the most part descendants of groups who have been in the Near East for four thousand years, at least.

A branch of the Canaanites became Jews, while others became Nabataeans and Phoenicians.

Rome conquered this region beginning in the first century BCE and then extended its holdings into Nabataea (106 AD), Syria and Lebanon. From the 300s the Roman state increasingly backed Christianity, so that most Levantines adopted that religion, though large numbers of Jews held out.

From the 630s the Near East began coming under Arab Muslim rule and over hundreds of years many people converted to Islam, including many Jews and Christians. So some of the ancestors of today’s Palestinians were themselves Jewish converts to Christianity or Islam.

“Palestine” as a term for a geographical unit and sometimes a regional identity appears in Arab Muslim sources. The “Jund Filastin” (Filastin is the Arabic transcription of Palestine) was a military district of Syria (Sham) in the Umayyad and Abbasid Empires. The chroniclers of later empires that ruled this area referred to it as “Filastin.” There were mints for coins there and the word occurs on some medieval coins.

The great Israeli historian Haim Gerber writes in his “Palestine” and Other Territorial Concepts in the 17th Century,” (IJMES 1998): “Little-used sources from the 17th and 18th centuries indicate some remarkable traces of awareness of territorial consciousness that deserve closer scrutiny. The main source in question is a two-volume fatwa (legal opinion) composed by the Palestinian Mufti Khayr al-Din al-Ramli (1585-1670), which on many occasions mentions the concepts Filastin, biladuna (our country), al-Sham (Syria), Misr (Egypt), and diyar (country), in senses that go far beyond “mere” objective.”

As for Jews, as far as geneticists can tell, around 800 CE a large male trading colony of Levantine Jews left the Abbasid Empire and crossed the Mediterranean to settle in Rome. That the Jewish diaspora derived from their expulsion by the Roman Empire after the Bar Kochba revolt is a myth.

There were lots of Jews in Roman Palestine. Of those who went to Europe for trade, some members eventually moved into what is now Poland, Ukraine and Russia. They tended to take local wives, who converted to Judaism when they married. These became the Ashkenazi Jews.

They typically have some Canaanite genetic heritage, though Ashkenazi women are genetically mostly gentiles, and mostly unrelated to one another.

The trick here, though, is that geneticists can only trace genealogy through the male y chromosome or though the female mitochondrial DNA. All the other genes split and join with new ones in every generation, so that nothing can be traced. So an Ashkenazi, European Jewish man is descended from all those gentile great-great grandmothers of the past, but they left no permanent trace in the way that the male line of Jewish descent did. And Ashkenazi women have a lot of heritage from their Jewish male ancestors that can no longer be detected.

While genetic history is working itself into various forms of nationalism, I wish it wouldn’t. For one thing, human beings just aren’t that different from one another, even if they carry distinctive haplotypes. Haplotypes are “a set of DNA variants along a single chromosome that tend to be inherited together.” But humans are always evolving and intermarrying, and haplotypes come and go. Some really old human DNA has yielded haplotypes that don’t seem even to exist any more. We all have diverse ancestries, most of which can no longer be traced.

But the reverse is also true. Naive nationalists misuse genealogical history to exclude and demonize. Some Jewish nationalists or Zionists seem to really mind the scientific finding that today’s Palestinians and other Levantine Arabs show strong genetic continuity with the Canaanites.

This dismay derives from the Canaanite city-states and small kingdoms having preceded Israel in history, such that they have a stronger claim on being indigenous. If Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, do they have a superior claim on today’s Israel/Palestine?

Sure, if haplotypes were all that mattered. They aren’t. Human beings today have individual rights, incorporated into treaty law via UN instruments.

Palestinians and Israelis both have a Canaanite heritage. That is irrelevant to their present-day human rights. Both should have the right to basic human freedoms, to citizenship in a state, to their own property and livelihoods and to self-fulfilment. Both should be able to live free of violence. These basic rights matter more than from whom they are descended or where their ancestors used to live.

One of the best posts in the history of this forum.

Thank you.

 

[surada]

Even the Bible proves Jews were indigenous to the land. And tell me, which came first? Soloman's Temple or the Al Aqsa Mosque? So lets see now --- who's land is it? Boy thats a tough one huh?

Do you know the difference between Arab and Muslim?

Arabs have been in the Levant for 4,000 years.

 

[surada]

Some will find this disturbing, but they have learned a lot from DNA and archaeology. Plus, they have tablets from the Ugarit in Ras Shamra. So they are brothers.

Yes, Mr. DeSantis, Palestinians are Indigenous, Descended from the Canaanites, and Palestinian Identity is not New

Ann Arbor (Informed Comment) - Here is Part 2 of my argument with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis concerning his uninformed and bigoted comments about Palestinians. Part I is here Who are the Palestinians? Nowadays, they are the Arabic-speaking inhabitants of the area stretching from the Jordan...

www.juancole.com

What we now call Palestinians are for the most part descendants of groups who have been in the Near East for four thousand years, at least.

A branch of the Canaanites became Jews, while others became Nabataeans and Phoenicians.

Rome conquered this region beginning in the first century BCE and then extended its holdings into Nabataea (106 AD), Syria and Lebanon. From the 300s the Roman state increasingly backed Christianity, so that most Levantines adopted that religion, though large numbers of Jews held out.

From the 630s the Near East began coming under Arab Muslim rule and over hundreds of years many people converted to Islam, including many Jews and Christians. So some of the ancestors of today’s Palestinians were themselves Jewish converts to Christianity or Islam.

“Palestine” as a term for a geographical unit and sometimes a regional identity appears in Arab Muslim sources. The “Jund Filastin” (Filastin is the Arabic transcription of Palestine) was a military district of Syria (Sham) in the Umayyad and Abbasid Empires. The chroniclers of later empires that ruled this area referred to it as “Filastin.” There were mints for coins there and the word occurs on some medieval coins.

The great Israeli historian Haim Gerber writes in his “Palestine” and Other Territorial Concepts in the 17th Century,” (IJMES 1998): “Little-used sources from the 17th and 18th centuries indicate some remarkable traces of awareness of territorial consciousness that deserve closer scrutiny. The main source in question is a two-volume fatwa (legal opinion) composed by the Palestinian Mufti Khayr al-Din al-Ramli (1585-1670), which on many occasions mentions the concepts Filastin, biladuna (our country), al-Sham (Syria), Misr (Egypt), and diyar (country), in senses that go far beyond “mere” objective.”

As for Jews, as far as geneticists can tell, around 800 CE a large male trading colony of Levantine Jews left the Abbasid Empire and crossed the Mediterranean to settle in Rome. That the Jewish diaspora derived from their expulsion by the Roman Empire after the Bar Kochba revolt is a myth.

There were lots of Jews in Roman Palestine. Of those who went to Europe for trade, some members eventually moved into what is now Poland, Ukraine and Russia. They tended to take local wives, who converted to Judaism when they married. These became the Ashkenazi Jews.

They typically have some Canaanite genetic heritage, though Ashkenazi women are genetically mostly gentiles, and mostly unrelated to one another.

The trick here, though, is that geneticists can only trace genealogy through the male y chromosome or though the female mitochondrial DNA. All the other genes split and join with new ones in every generation, so that nothing can be traced. So an Ashkenazi, European Jewish man is descended from all those gentile great-great grandmothers of the past, but they left no permanent trace in the way that the male line of Jewish descent did. And Ashkenazi women have a lot of heritage from their Jewish male ancestors that can no longer be detected.

While genetic history is working itself into various forms of nationalism, I wish it wouldn’t. For one thing, human beings just aren’t that different from one another, even if they carry distinctive haplotypes. Haplotypes are “a set of DNA variants along a single chromosome that tend to be inherited together.” But humans are always evolving and intermarrying, and haplotypes come and go. Some really old human DNA has yielded haplotypes that don’t seem even to exist any more. We all have diverse ancestries, most of which can no longer be traced.

But the reverse is also true. Naive nationalists misuse genealogical history to exclude and demonize. Some Jewish nationalists or Zionists seem to really mind the scientific finding that today’s Palestinians and other Levantine Arabs show strong genetic continuity with the Canaanites.

This dismay derives from the Canaanite city-states and small kingdoms having preceded Israel in history, such that they have a stronger claim on being indigenous. If Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, do they have a superior claim on today’s Israel/Palestine?

Sure, if haplotypes were all that mattered. They aren’t. Human beings today have individual rights, incorporated into treaty law via UN instruments.

Palestinians and Israelis both have a Canaanite heritage. That is irrelevant to their present-day human rights. Both should have the right to basic human freedoms, to citizenship in a state, to their own property and livelihoods and to self-fulfilment. Both should be able to live free of violence. These basic rights matter more than from whom they are descended or where their ancestors used to live.

Yes Mr Desantis, the Palestinians are indigenous

Some will find this disturbing, but they have learned a lot from DNA and archaeology. Plus, they have tablets from the Ugarit in Ras Shamra. So they are brothers. https://www.juancole.com/2023/05/palestinians-indigenous-palestinian.html What we now call Palestinians are for the most part...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Woodznutz]

Some will find this disturbing, but they have learned a lot from DNA and archaeology. Plus, they have tablets from the Ugarit in Ras Shamra. So they are brothers.

Yes, Mr. DeSantis, Palestinians are Indigenous, Descended from the Canaanites, and Palestinian Identity is not New

Ann Arbor (Informed Comment) - Here is Part 2 of my argument with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis concerning his uninformed and bigoted comments about Palestinians. Part I is here Who are the Palestinians? Nowadays, they are the Arabic-speaking inhabitants of the area stretching from the Jordan...

www.juancole.com

What we now call Palestinians are for the most part descendants of groups who have been in the Near East for four thousand years, at least.

A branch of the Canaanites became Jews, while others became Nabataeans and Phoenicians.

Rome conquered this region beginning in the first century BCE and then extended its holdings into Nabataea (106 AD), Syria and Lebanon. From the 300s the Roman state increasingly backed Christianity, so that most Levantines adopted that religion, though large numbers of Jews held out.

From the 630s the Near East began coming under Arab Muslim rule and over hundreds of years many people converted to Islam, including many Jews and Christians. So some of the ancestors of today’s Palestinians were themselves Jewish converts to Christianity or Islam.

“Palestine” as a term for a geographical unit and sometimes a regional identity appears in Arab Muslim sources. The “Jund Filastin” (Filastin is the Arabic transcription of Palestine) was a military district of Syria (Sham) in the Umayyad and Abbasid Empires. The chroniclers of later empires that ruled this area referred to it as “Filastin.” There were mints for coins there and the word occurs on some medieval coins.

The great Israeli historian Haim Gerber writes in his “Palestine” and Other Territorial Concepts in the 17th Century,” (IJMES 1998): “Little-used sources from the 17th and 18th centuries indicate some remarkable traces of awareness of territorial consciousness that deserve closer scrutiny. The main source in question is a two-volume fatwa (legal opinion) composed by the Palestinian Mufti Khayr al-Din al-Ramli (1585-1670), which on many occasions mentions the concepts Filastin, biladuna (our country), al-Sham (Syria), Misr (Egypt), and diyar (country), in senses that go far beyond “mere” objective.”

As for Jews, as far as geneticists can tell, around 800 CE a large male trading colony of Levantine Jews left the Abbasid Empire and crossed the Mediterranean to settle in Rome. That the Jewish diaspora derived from their expulsion by the Roman Empire after the Bar Kochba revolt is a myth.

There were lots of Jews in Roman Palestine. Of those who went to Europe for trade, some members eventually moved into what is now Poland, Ukraine and Russia. They tended to take local wives, who converted to Judaism when they married. These became the Ashkenazi Jews.

They typically have some Canaanite genetic heritage, though Ashkenazi women are genetically mostly gentiles, and mostly unrelated to one another.

The trick here, though, is that geneticists can only trace genealogy through the male y chromosome or though the female mitochondrial DNA. All the other genes split and join with new ones in every generation, so that nothing can be traced. So an Ashkenazi, European Jewish man is descended from all those gentile great-great grandmothers of the past, but they left no permanent trace in the way that the male line of Jewish descent did. And Ashkenazi women have a lot of heritage from their Jewish male ancestors that can no longer be detected.

While genetic history is working itself into various forms of nationalism, I wish it wouldn’t. For one thing, human beings just aren’t that different from one another, even if they carry distinctive haplotypes. Haplotypes are “a set of DNA variants along a single chromosome that tend to be inherited together.” But humans are always evolving and intermarrying, and haplotypes come and go. Some really old human DNA has yielded haplotypes that don’t seem even to exist any more. We all have diverse ancestries, most of which can no longer be traced.

But the reverse is also true. Naive nationalists misuse genealogical history to exclude and demonize. Some Jewish nationalists or Zionists seem to really mind the scientific finding that today’s Palestinians and other Levantine Arabs show strong genetic continuity with the Canaanites.

This dismay derives from the Canaanite city-states and small kingdoms having preceded Israel in history, such that they have a stronger claim on being indigenous. If Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, do they have a superior claim on today’s Israel/Palestine?

Sure, if haplotypes were all that mattered. They aren’t. Human beings today have individual rights, incorporated into treaty law via UN instruments.

Palestinians and Israelis both have a Canaanite heritage. That is irrelevant to their present-day human rights. Both should have the right to basic human freedoms, to citizenship in a state, to their own property and livelihoods and to self-fulfilment. Both should be able to live free of violence. These basic rights matter more than from whom they are descended or where their ancestors used to live.

Human nature will trump human rights every time.

 

[surada]

Making id(e)ologies and following them are different things.

Cana'anites weren't Semites, but I don't expect

Arab imperialists know the local history.

Semite is a language group. Arabic speakers are the largest group of Semites.... or it might be Amharic and Syriac. You're a moron.

 

[surada]

Human nature will trump human rights every time.

Lol especially when you have an 8th grade education .

 

[Woodznutz]

Lol especially when you have an 8th grade education .

We can't 'educate' ourselves out of our problems.

The best and brightest still have "the serpent within".

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There was no Ur of the Chaldees.

Have we erred on Ur?

For years, most Bible readers have assumed that Abraham’s hometown should be identified with the great city of Ur, located in southern Mesopotamia, an

goodfaithmedia.org

Arma Virumque Cano

For all we know, the Hebrews may have come from Troy. The Romans claimed to be descended from a Trojan prince, Aeneas.

Homer called the Greeks "Danaos." Some claim they became the Hebrew tribe of Dan. As with the American Indians, tribes were often descended from various defeated tribes joining together.