You Were Warned...Pat. Act

[dilloduck]

and naturally Obama was forced to use those mechanisms--because -well--Bush put em there.

 

[Trajan]

and naturally Obama was forced to use those mechanisms--because -well--Bush put em there.

oh hell yea, the sunsets and request for re-authorization every 3 months were approved via hacking from the Bush-Cheney Fuhrer bunker, you know, the one were they keep the passengers from the flight that hit the pentagon

 

[Intense]

You act like the Patriot Act is the big problem. The problem is Statist Progressivism.

For Immediate Release
March 16, 2012
Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

EXECUTIVE ORDER

NATIONAL DEFENSE RESOURCES PREPAREDNESS

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2061 et seq.), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:

PART I - PURPOSE, POLICY, AND IMPLEMENTATION

Section 101. Purpose. This order delegates authorities and addresses national defense resource policies and programs under the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (the "Act").

Sec. 102. Policy. The United States must have an industrial and technological base capable of meeting national defense requirements and capable of contributing to the technological superiority of its national defense equipment in peacetime and in times of national emergency. The domestic industrial and technological base is the foundation for national defense preparedness. The authorities provided in the Act shall be used to strengthen this base and to ensure it is capable of responding to the national defense needs of the United States.

Sec. 103. General Functions. Executive departments and agencies (agencies) responsible for plans and programs relating to national defense (as defined in section 801(j) of this order), or for resources and services needed to support such plans and programs, shall:

(a) identify requirements for the full spectrum of emergencies, including essential military and civilian demand;

(b) assess on an ongoing basis the capability of the domestic industrial and technological base to satisfy requirements in peacetime and times of national emergency, specifically evaluating the availability of the most critical resource and production sources, including subcontractors and suppliers, materials, skilled labor, and professional and technical personnel;

(c) be prepared, in the event of a potential threat to the security of the United States, to take actions necessary to ensure the availability of adequate resources and production capability, including services and critical technology, for national defense requirements;

(d) improve the efficiency and responsiveness of the domestic industrial base to support national defense requirements; and

(e) foster cooperation between the defense and commercial sectors for research and development and for acquisition of materials, services, components, and equipment to enhance industrial base efficiency and responsiveness.

Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness | The White House

This takes on a lot more than the Patriot Act.

 

[Trajan]

You act like the Patriot Act is the big problem. The problem is Statist Progressivism.

For Immediate Release
March 16, 2012
Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

EXECUTIVE ORDER

NATIONAL DEFENSE RESOURCES PREPAREDNESS

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2061 et seq.), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:

PART I - PURPOSE, POLICY, AND IMPLEMENTATION

Section 101. Purpose. This order delegates authorities and addresses national defense resource policies and programs under the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (the "Act").

Sec. 102. Policy. The United States must have an industrial and technological base capable of meeting national defense requirements and capable of contributing to the technological superiority of its national defense equipment in peacetime and in times of national emergency. The domestic industrial and technological base is the foundation for national defense preparedness. The authorities provided in the Act shall be used to strengthen this base and to ensure it is capable of responding to the national defense needs of the United States.

Sec. 103. General Functions. Executive departments and agencies (agencies) responsible for plans and programs relating to national defense (as defined in section 801(j) of this order), or for resources and services needed to support such plans and programs, shall:

(a) identify requirements for the full spectrum of emergencies, including essential military and civilian demand;

(b) assess on an ongoing basis the capability of the domestic industrial and technological base to satisfy requirements in peacetime and times of national emergency, specifically evaluating the availability of the most critical resource and production sources, including subcontractors and suppliers, materials, skilled labor, and professional and technical personnel;

(c) be prepared, in the event of a potential threat to the security of the United States, to take actions necessary to ensure the availability of adequate resources and production capability, including services and critical technology, for national defense requirements;

(d) improve the efficiency and responsiveness of the domestic industrial base to support national defense requirements; and

(e) foster cooperation between the defense and commercial sectors for research and development and for acquisition of materials, services, components, and equipment to enhance industrial base efficiency and responsiveness.

Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness | The White House

This takes on a lot more than the Patriot Act.

hey, freedom 'aint free'....

 

[MondoBongo]

"If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about." - Right Wingers circa 2004

 

[dilloduck]

"If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about." - Right Wingers circa 2004

however the powers to spy have now been expanded. The very same powers that Barry swore that he would repeal once elected. We have a liar in charge of these powers now.

 

[Katzndogz]

The Patriot Act has been changed and expanded far beyond it's original intent. It's a weapon that the people never imagined would be turned on them when the government chose to do so. Now the government has chosen to use that weapon against the very freedoms it is pledged to protect.

If the people are expected to not trust the government at all, then there has been a fundamental transformation in the relationship between citizens and the government. Part of obama's transformational process. Every time the government seizes some kind of power, it should just be assumed that the power will be used against us.

At the height of the cold war, the Soviet Union was a Godless nation that relentlessly spied on its citizens. Today we're the Godless nation that relentlessly spies on its citizens.

 

[Intense]

"If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about." - Right Wingers circa 2004

CHAP. XVIII.

Of Tyranny.

Sec. 199. AS usurpation is the exercise of power, which another hath a right to; so tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right, which no body can have a right to. And this is making use of the power any one has in his hands, not for the good of those who are under it, but for his own private separate advantage. When the governor, however intitled, makes not the law, but his will, the rule; and his commands and actions are not directed to the preservation of the properties of his people, but the satisfaction of his own ambition, revenge, covetousness, or any other irregular passion. -John Locke

John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government: Chapter 18

 

[MondoBongo]

The Patriot Act has been changed and expanded far beyond it's original intent. It's a weapon that the people never imagined would be turned on them when the government chose to do so. Now the government has chosen to use that weapon against the very freedoms it is pledged to protect.

If the people are expected to not trust the government at all, then there has been a fundamental transformation in the relationship between citizens and the government. Part of obama's transformational process. Every time the government seizes some kind of power, it should just be assumed that the power will be used against us.

At the height of the cold war, the Soviet Union was a Godless nation that relentlessly spied on its citizens. Today we're the Godless nation that relentlessly spies on its citizens.

Bullshit. This is what the left was up in arms about the day the Patriot Act was enacted. We were told to sit down, shut up and to stop behaving in such an UnAmerican way. This is the chickens coming home to roost that you were warned about.

 

[depotoo]

well, let's see, through the time period examined by the IG report issued in 2010, all of 3500 telelphone records had been confiscated and that was considered too much. Yet today all metadata for all users has been confiscated?

 

[Trajan]

The Patriot Act has been changed and expanded far beyond it's original intent. It's a weapon that the people never imagined would be turned on them when the government chose to do so. Now the government has chosen to use that weapon against the very freedoms it is pledged to protect.

If the people are expected to not trust the government at all, then there has been a fundamental transformation in the relationship between citizens and the government. Part of obama's transformational process. Every time the government seizes some kind of power, it should just be assumed that the power will be used against us.

At the height of the cold war, the Soviet Union was a Godless nation that relentlessly spied on its citizens. Today we're the Godless nation that relentlessly spies on its citizens.

Bullshit. This is what the left was up in arms about the day the Patriot Act was enacted. We were told to sit down, shut up and to stop behaving in such an UnAmerican way. This is the chickens coming home to roost that you were warned about.

uh huh;


Senator Obama, 2007 weeping surveillance of Americans', in the name of battling terrorism is "a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand."

"I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom," he said in a speech then. "No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists."


Analysis: Obama's agenda scorched in firestorm

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The Patriot Act has been changed and expanded far beyond it's original intent. It's a weapon that the people never imagined would be turned on them when the government chose to do so. Now the government has chosen to use that weapon against the very freedoms it is pledged to protect.

If the people are expected to not trust the government at all, then there has been a fundamental transformation in the relationship between citizens and the government. Part of obama's transformational process. Every time the government seizes some kind of power, it should just be assumed that the power will be used against us.

At the height of the cold war, the Soviet Union was a Godless nation that relentlessly spied on its citizens. Today we're the Godless nation that relentlessly spies on its citizens.

Bullshit. This is what the left was up in arms about the day the Patriot Act was enacted. We were told to sit down, shut up and to stop behaving in such an UnAmerican way. This is the chickens coming home to roost that you were warned about.

So much so that they voted 98-1 in favor. The left wasn't up in arms.

 

[Seawytch]

Civil libertarians and liberals have been railing against the Patriot Act since its inception. You were told that you like it under a Republican but would hate it under a Democrat, but you didn't listen.

One Senator told you back then EXACTLY what would happen under these new laws...

Watch The One Senator Who Voted Against The Patriot Act Warn What Would Happen

One provision that troubles me a great deal is a provision that permits the government under FISA to compel the production of records from any business regarding any person, if that information is sought in connection with an investigation of terrorism or espionage.

Now we're not talking here about travel records pertaining to a terrorist suspect, which we all can see can be highly relevant to an investigation of a terrorist plot. FISA already gives the FBI the power to get airline, train, hotel, car rental and other records of a suspect.

But under this bill, the government can compel the disclosure of the personal records of anyone -- perhaps someone who worked with, or lived next door to, or went to school with, or sat on an airplane with, or has been seen in the company of, or whose phone number was called by -- the target of the investigation.

And under this new provisions all business records can be compelled, including those containing sensitive personal information like medical records from hospitals or doctors, or educational records, or records of what books someone has taken out of the library. This is an enormous expansion of authority, under a law that provides only minimal judicial supervision.​

You were warned...

Now that they've proved their point they will surely repeal it since they have the ability to do so. Oh wait--you LIKE it now that Obama's in charge ?

Only 26 Republicans voted against reauthorization. Guess whose court this ball is in? There are 54 Democrats and a couple hundred republicans to start calling.

 

[Seawytch]

bullshit! you are wrong. Post the language from the patriot act that you claim allows data collection on every american who uses a cell phone.

Section 215 of the Patriot Act allows the government to order businesses to turn over “the production of any tangible things” if it can prove that “there are reasonable grounds to believe” that the tangible things sought are “relevant to an authorized investigation . . . to obtain foreign intelligence information. . . or to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.”
Which is why Tribble Head, Rand Paul, is trying to introduce legislation to close this little "loophole".

Rand Paul to introduce bill closing the FISA business records loophole

LOL, what you posted makes my point. They are not authorized by the patriot act to collect the phone records of all americans. thanks for making my point and destroying yours.

So Rand Paul wants to close a loophole that, in your estimation, doesn't exist at all...a "loophole" that has been gathering this data since 2006?

 

[Redfish]

Section 215 of the Patriot Act allows the government to order businesses to turn over “the production of any tangible things” if it can prove that “there are reasonable grounds to believe” that the tangible things sought are “relevant to an authorized investigation . . . to obtain foreign intelligence information. . . or to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.”
Which is why Tribble Head, Rand Paul, is trying to introduce legislation to close this little "loophole".

Rand Paul to introduce bill closing the FISA business records loophole

LOL, what you posted makes my point. They are not authorized by the patriot act to collect the phone records of all americans. thanks for making my point and destroying yours.

So Rand Paul wants to close a loophole that, in your estimation, doesn't exist at all...a "loophole" that has been gathering this data since 2006?

nice try at topic shift. you started this thread on a false premise. why not just admit it and let the thread die?

 

[Trajan]

Civil libertarians and liberals have been railing against the Patriot Act since its inception. You were told that you like it under a Republican but would hate it under a Democrat, but you didn't listen.

One Senator told you back then EXACTLY what would happen under these new laws...

Watch The One Senator Who Voted Against The Patriot Act Warn What Would Happen

One provision that troubles me a great deal is a provision that permits the government under FISA to compel the production of records from any business regarding any person, if that information is sought in connection with an investigation of terrorism or espionage.

Now we're not talking here about travel records pertaining to a terrorist suspect, which we all can see can be highly relevant to an investigation of a terrorist plot. FISA already gives the FBI the power to get airline, train, hotel, car rental and other records of a suspect.

But under this bill, the government can compel the disclosure of the personal records of anyone -- perhaps someone who worked with, or lived next door to, or went to school with, or sat on an airplane with, or has been seen in the company of, or whose phone number was called by -- the target of the investigation.

And under this new provisions all business records can be compelled, including those containing sensitive personal information like medical records from hospitals or doctors, or educational records, or records of what books someone has taken out of the library. This is an enormous expansion of authority, under a law that provides only minimal judicial supervision.​

You were warned...

so you agree that obama has basically been a hypocrite as to his use of such mechanisms?

Civil libertarians and liberals have been railing against the Patriot Act since its inception. You were told that you like it under a Republican but would hate it under a Democrat, but you didn't listen.

One Senator told you back then EXACTLY what would happen under these new laws...

Watch The One Senator Who Voted Against The Patriot Act Warn What Would Happen

One provision that troubles me a great deal is a provision that permits the government under FISA to compel the production of records from any business regarding any person, if that information is sought in connection with an investigation of terrorism or espionage.

Now we're not talking here about travel records pertaining to a terrorist suspect, which we all can see can be highly relevant to an investigation of a terrorist plot. FISA already gives the FBI the power to get airline, train, hotel, car rental and other records of a suspect.

But under this bill, the government can compel the disclosure of the personal records of anyone -- perhaps someone who worked with, or lived next door to, or went to school with, or sat on an airplane with, or has been seen in the company of, or whose phone number was called by -- the target of the investigation.

And under this new provisions all business records can be compelled, including those containing sensitive personal information like medical records from hospitals or doctors, or educational records, or records of what books someone has taken out of the library. This is an enormous expansion of authority, under a law that provides only minimal judicial supervision.​

You were warned...

Now that they've proved their point they will surely repeal it since they have the ability to do so. Oh wait--you LIKE it now that Obama's in charge ?

Only 26 Republicans voted against reauthorization. Guess whose court this ball is in? There are 54 Democrats and a couple hundred republicans to start calling.

uh huh, slice the bologna any way you like, why is obama using it?

 

[Papageorgio]

I was against then, I am against it now. I said it then and I'll say it now: Do not count on any President to relinquish any power gained by his or her predecessor. They will not give it up willingly, the will use it, abuse it, and work to expand it's scope. They will want more and that will be passed on to their successor and the ugly circle continues...

BINGO!

I have been against the intrusion before it passed in to law.

It was a bipartisan passing and it was bad then and bad now.

In fact Obama in 2005 slammed the Patriot Act but as a President, he is doubling down.

 

[Katzndogz]

The danger is not the Patriot Act. It was a reasonable response to a known threat. It became dangerous in its application. It is not being used against the people known to be the most likely to pose a threat, it is being used against Americans, letting the most dangerous pass. It's like the TSA searches that take the diapers off grandmas but let shoebombers and underwear bombers sail right through. These rules are not designed to catch enemies of the nation. They are designed so that the government can catch enemies to itself.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

The Patriot Act has been changed and expanded far beyond it's original intent. It's a weapon that the people never imagined would be turned on them when the government chose to do so. Now the government has chosen to use that weapon against the very freedoms it is pledged to protect.

The Patriot Act is living up to exactly what it was intended. It was intended to increase government powers so it could spy on as many people as they wanted with as small a paper trail as possible.

To think the government WOULDN'T abuse it is the height of nievity.

It amazes me that right wingers, who always scream about government corruption and ineptitude, were more than happy to give the government broad powers to spy on american's private lives.

 

[Trajan]

The Patriot Act has been changed and expanded far beyond it's original intent. It's a weapon that the people never imagined would be turned on them when the government chose to do so. Now the government has chosen to use that weapon against the very freedoms it is pledged to protect.

The Patriot Act is living up to exactly what it was intended. It was intended to increase government powers so it could spy on as many people as they wanted with as small a paper trail as possible.

To think the government WOULDN'T abuse it is the height of nievity.

It amazes me that right wingers, who always scream about government corruption and ineptitude, were more than happy to give the government broad powers to spy on american's private lives.

its amazing to me that obama is using it after his full throated denunciations ......and since you missed it, it passed and continued to pass with huge bi partisan sppt......