You Were Warned...Pat. Act

[Immanuel]

The Patriot Act has been changed and expanded far beyond it's original intent. It's a weapon that the people never imagined would be turned on them when the government chose to do so. Now the government has chosen to use that weapon against the very freedoms it is pledged to protect.

If the people are expected to not trust the government at all, then there has been a fundamental transformation in the relationship between citizens and the government. Part of obama's transformational process. Every time the government seizes some kind of power, it should just be assumed that the power will be used against us.

At the height of the cold war, the Soviet Union was a Godless nation that relentlessly spied on its citizens. Today we're the Godless nation that relentlessly spies on its citizens.

I said from the day of its introduction that "someday we will have someone like Hillary Clinton in the White House and conservatives will regret this action".

Please don't tell me people did not expect the act to be changed and used against them! I'm people, hjmick is people. Only GWB fools actually believed this was never going to be used against Americans.

Immie

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Let’s assume Obama vetoed the FISA reauthorization bill last year.

Given the overwhelming support for the reauthorization, that veto likely would have been overridden and Obama pilloried by the right for being ‘weak on terror.’

Let’s further assume Obama vetoed the FISA reauthorization bill last year and another 9/11 attack occurred, where investigators determined that the attack could have been prevented had only the FISA program still been in effect.

Would any conservative care to speculate as to his response should this indeed occur? It wouldn’t be hard to imagine given the right’s attempt to contrive the Boston Bombing into an “Obama National security failure.’

This issue has nothing to do with ‘trampling’ the Constitution or 4th Amendment rights, it has only to do with the politics of fear: the fear Americans have of ‘terrorism,’ the fear politicians have of voters’ fear of ‘terrorism.’

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The data gathering being done by Obama's administration is beyond that which is allowed by the patriot act.

BTW, wytchey, this is not a partisan issue.

You lie by accusing the Obama Administration of violating the law and then state “this is not a partisan issue”?

No wonder you’re devoid of all credibility.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The data gathering being done by Obama's administration is beyond that which is allowed by the patriot act.

BTW, wytchey, this is not a partisan issue.

You lie by accusing the Obama Administration of violating the law and then state “this is not a partisan issue”?

No wonder you’re devoid of all credibility.

You just claimed a "lie," but you pointed to no lie.

If the Obama Administration IS violating the law, then saying so is not necessarily a partisan thing.

Fuck sake, you idiot, even you could (in theory, anyway) CHOOSE to be honest and call it the way you see it. If the Administration is violating the law and even you "see" that this is true, you are allowed to say it. YOU would not be a "partisan" for merely speaking honestly, you idiot.

 

[Trajan]

Let’s assume Obama vetoed the FISA reauthorization bill last year.

Given the overwhelming support for the reauthorization, that veto likely would have been overridden and Obama pilloried by the right for being ‘weak on terror.’

yes he would have, I agree; and how is that different from the beating he took on holder wanting to try khalid in Manhattan? Or closing gitmo and bringing the prisoners here?

Let’s further assume Obama vetoed the FISA reauthorization bill last year and another 9/11 attack occurred, where investigators determined that the attack could have been prevented had only the FISA program still been in effect.

don't even try that , thats what got us here, right? this argument didn't help bush at all, so please...

Would any conservative care to speculate as to his response should this indeed occur? It wouldn’t be hard to imagine given the right’s attempt to contrive the Boston Bombing into an “Obama National security failure.’

speculation is not necessary, the same circumstances existed in 2007 and 08 when he denounced the prgms etc. In fact the situation was worse, I direct you to Obamas ' the war is virtually over and we need to deconstruct the apparatus' speech just last week.....if thats the case, why did he renew it less than 2 months ago?

AND if he had closed the pgrm. or let it lapse how would we have known? we only know NOW becasue it was leaked and that has you making arguments after the fact as poor efforts at mitigation.

This issue has nothing to do with ‘trampling’ the Constitution or 4th Amendment rights, it has only to do with the politics of fear: the fear Americans have of ‘terrorism,’ the fear politicians have of voters’ fear of ‘terrorism.’

yada yada yada....there is no difference that distinguishes him from bush in that 'statement'....


so, is obama a hypocrite or not?

 

[Trajan]

The irs is a different and very small issue compared to this. Its also a weak argument to he making. Stop trying to score cheap points with lame gotcha gimmicks. You just look stupid.

so focus on the example and one small snippet and ignore the rest, who's stupid? You also suffer a lack of integrity......But I had that figured out when you started to dance.


whats the issue? whats your defense? Oh right, so your argument is obama was given the power , he continued and thats that....

My defense is that since 08 i have been railing on Obama for not repealing the PA. Go ahead do a search on here. I railed on him for the NDAA as well. I was against this power grab from the beginning. unlike a lot of people who just turned the other way or said they had nothing to hide. I have nothing to hide and i know full well this was an abuse of power.

My argument is that Obama was a failure, but i think personally had Romrom won he would have failed as well. Its gone beyond the desk of the President now. Regardless Obama failed and this is his baby as well as Bushes.

It will be the next Presidents as well if its not removed completely.

So what excuse you want to try now

oh not so fats, thats not what you said here;

Well in a sense yes, because who is going to give up that sort of power.? The thing is though it doesnt matter who is in the white house. This was going to happen

obama made the case against it, he then kept it alive, and again you make tis out to be bushs baby, read my response to clayton, you again reflexively blame bush, obama could have pulled the plug on this any time he wanted to, but, he didn't so please, cut the shit, boooosh boooosh booosh....

the Pat. act had bipartisan sppt. as well, stop trying to dance. If you intended to say obama is a hypocrite and should have killed it then thats what you should have said....

 

[Plasmaball]

so focus on the example and one small snippet and ignore the rest, who's stupid? You also suffer a lack of integrity......But I had that figured out when you started to dance.


whats the issue? whats your defense? Oh right, so your argument is obama was given the power , he continued and thats that....

My defense is that since 08 i have been railing on Obama for not repealing the PA. Go ahead do a search on here. I railed on him for the NDAA as well. I was against this power grab from the beginning. unlike a lot of people who just turned the other way or said they had nothing to hide. I have nothing to hide and i know full well this was an abuse of power.

My argument is that Obama was a failure, but i think personally had Romrom won he would have failed as well. Its gone beyond the desk of the President now. Regardless Obama failed and this is his baby as well as Bushes.

It will be the next Presidents as well if its not removed completely.

So what excuse you want to try now

oh not so fats, thats not what you said here;

Well in a sense yes, because who is going to give up that sort of power.? The thing is though it doesnt matter who is in the white house. This was going to happen

obama made the case against it, he then kept it alive, and again you make tis out to be bushs baby, read my response to clayton, you again reflexively blame bush, obama could have pulled the plug on this any time he wanted to, but, he didn't so please, cut the shit, boooosh boooosh booosh....

the Pat. act had bipartisan sppt. as well, stop trying to dance. If you intended to say obama is a hypocrite and should have killed it then thats what you should have said....

You have to blame bush. He started this current program. Seriously you partisan hackness is showing. Pathetic.
I blame bush, I blame congress, I blame obama.
I do blame obama and he should of killed it, but I feel it goes beyond one person now.
Stop playing the blame game and look at the big picture.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Maybe when the Patriot Act comes up for reauthorization, more than 26 Republicans and less than 54 Democrats will vote against it.

Or, in keeping with his leadership style, Obama can issue an executive order abolishing it perhaps?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Suddenly, after vehemently opposing it's passage, Liberals are vigorously defending the Patriot Act as if it were their own. My how the times change.

 

[Trajan]

My defense is that since 08 i have been railing on Obama for not repealing the PA. Go ahead do a search on here. I railed on him for the NDAA as well. I was against this power grab from the beginning. unlike a lot of people who just turned the other way or said they had nothing to hide. I have nothing to hide and i know full well this was an abuse of power.

My argument is that Obama was a failure, but i think personally had Romrom won he would have failed as well. Its gone beyond the desk of the President now. Regardless Obama failed and this is his baby as well as Bushes.

It will be the next Presidents as well if its not removed completely.

So what excuse you want to try now

oh not so fats, thats not what you said here;

Well in a sense yes, because who is going to give up that sort of power.? The thing is though it doesnt matter who is in the white house. This was going to happen

obama made the case against it, he then kept it alive, and again you make tis out to be bushs baby, read my response to clayton, you again reflexively blame bush, obama could have pulled the plug on this any time he wanted to, but, he didn't so please, cut the shit, boooosh boooosh booosh....

the Pat. act had bipartisan sppt. as well, stop trying to dance. If you intended to say obama is a hypocrite and should have killed it then thats what you should have said....

You have to blame bush. He started this current program. Seriously you partisan hackness is showing. Pathetic.
I blame bush, I blame congress, I blame obama.
I do blame obama and he should of killed it, but I feel it goes beyond one person now.
Stop playing the blame game and look at the big picture.

I don't blame anyone asshat I have no issue with the program and have said so straight away when the story broke.

you're a little slow so I'll say it again, IF you feel that way then you should have said so from the git go, before jumping in on my post back to whacky quack and saying it doesn't matter who is in the WH.....

 

[koshergrl]

"...post back to whacky quack"

 

[whitehall]

The Act worked with the Bush administration and it remains to be seen if the Hussein administration violated the law by expanding the surveillance to every freaking citizen in the US. You have to keep in mind that the geniuses in the "intelligence" agencies couldn't find a Russian terrorist in Boston even when the names were tattooed on their foreheads so you have to wonder what the hell they are doing with the data except supplying the names it to the DNC for political dirty tricks.

 

[P@triot]

The data gathering being done by Obama's administration is beyond that which is allowed by the patriot act.

BTW, wytchey, this is not a partisan issue.

No fishy, this IS the Patriot Act...and folks like Russ Feingold even told ya so.

Funny, I sure remember the partisans telling me to sit down and STFU up for my treasonous position against these far reaching provisions under George W Bush. Odd that now that the "anything to oppose Obama" folks are joining the fray it's "bipartisan". Rrrriiiiggghhhhtttt....

Ok - you don't have to lie. While you were right on your initial premise, you're flat out lying when you say that the Obama Administration is not far exceeding the Patriot Act.

Furthermore, GWB did not take any information collected from what was authorized in the Patriot Act and use it to attack innocent Americans like Obama has through the IRS.

What Barack Hussein has done is so far beyond anything GWB ever did...

 

[Plasmaball]

oh not so fats, thats not what you said here;

Well in a sense yes, because who is going to give up that sort of power.? The thing is though it doesnt matter who is in the white house. This was going to happen

obama made the case against it, he then kept it alive, and again you make tis out to be bushs baby, read my response to clayton, you again reflexively blame bush, obama could have pulled the plug on this any time he wanted to, but, he didn't so please, cut the shit, boooosh boooosh booosh....

the Pat. act had bipartisan sppt. as well, stop trying to dance. If you intended to say obama is a hypocrite and should have killed it then thats what you should have said....

You have to blame bush. He started this current program. Seriously you partisan hackness is showing. Pathetic.
I blame bush, I blame congress, I blame obama.
I do blame obama and he should of killed it, but I feel it goes beyond one person now.
Stop playing the blame game and look at the big picture.

I don't blame anyone asshat I have no issue with the program and have said so straight away when the story broke.

you're a little slow so I'll say it again, IF you feel that way then you should have said so from the git go, before jumping in on my post back to whacky quack and saying it doesn't matter who is in the WH.....

then you are part of the problem

 

[P@triot]

Suddenly, after vehemently opposing it's passage, Liberals are vigorously defending the Patriot Act as if it were their own. My how the times change.

It's a fundamental and universal principle of the dumbocrat.

Anything a conservative does (even if it's liberal in nature) is bad.

Anything a liberal does (even if it's conservative in nature) is good.

It's just another piece in the mountains of evidence about how profoundly dimwitted liberals are....

 

[Spoonman]

Civil libertarians and liberals have been railing against the Patriot Act since its inception. You were told that you like it under a Republican but would hate it under a Democrat, but you didn't listen.

One Senator told you back then EXACTLY what would happen under these new laws...

Watch The One Senator Who Voted Against The Patriot Act Warn What Would Happen

One provision that troubles me a great deal is a provision that permits the government under FISA to compel the production of records from any business regarding any person, if that information is sought in connection with an investigation of terrorism or espionage.

Now we're not talking here about travel records pertaining to a terrorist suspect, which we all can see can be highly relevant to an investigation of a terrorist plot. FISA already gives the FBI the power to get airline, train, hotel, car rental and other records of a suspect.

But under this bill, the government can compel the disclosure of the personal records of anyone -- perhaps someone who worked with, or lived next door to, or went to school with, or sat on an airplane with, or has been seen in the company of, or whose phone number was called by -- the target of the investigation.

And under this new provisions all business records can be compelled, including those containing sensitive personal information like medical records from hospitals or doctors, or educational records, or records of what books someone has taken out of the library. This is an enormous expansion of authority, under a law that provides only minimal judicial supervision.​

You were warned...

gee, I remember when a presidential candidate campaigned against it and promised tp remove it if elected back in 2008. What ever happened to that?

 

[Spoonman]

My defense is that since 08 i have been railing on Obama for not repealing the PA. Go ahead do a search on here. I railed on him for the NDAA as well. I was against this power grab from the beginning. unlike a lot of people who just turned the other way or said they had nothing to hide. I have nothing to hide and i know full well this was an abuse of power.

My argument is that Obama was a failure, but i think personally had Romrom won he would have failed as well. Its gone beyond the desk of the President now. Regardless Obama failed and this is his baby as well as Bushes.

It will be the next Presidents as well if its not removed completely.

So what excuse you want to try now

oh not so fats, thats not what you said here;

Well in a sense yes, because who is going to give up that sort of power.? The thing is though it doesnt matter who is in the white house. This was going to happen

obama made the case against it, he then kept it alive, and again you make tis out to be bushs baby, read my response to clayton, you again reflexively blame bush, obama could have pulled the plug on this any time he wanted to, but, he didn't so please, cut the shit, boooosh boooosh booosh....

the Pat. act had bipartisan sppt. as well, stop trying to dance. If you intended to say obama is a hypocrite and should have killed it then thats what you should have said....

You have to blame bush. He started this current program. Seriously you partisan hackness is showing. Pathetic.
I blame bush, I blame congress, I blame obama.
I do blame obama and he should of killed it, but I feel it goes beyond one person now.
Stop playing the blame game and look at the big picture.

that might fly if bush was still president and if Obama hadn't been president for the last 5 years and if Obama hadn't reapproved the patriot act. but given those facts your argument now sounds as ridiculous as you.

 

[Plasmaball]

oh not so fats, thats not what you said here;

Well in a sense yes, because who is going to give up that sort of power.? The thing is though it doesnt matter who is in the white house. This was going to happen

obama made the case against it, he then kept it alive, and again you make tis out to be bushs baby, read my response to clayton, you again reflexively blame bush, obama could have pulled the plug on this any time he wanted to, but, he didn't so please, cut the shit, boooosh boooosh booosh....

the Pat. act had bipartisan sppt. as well, stop trying to dance. If you intended to say obama is a hypocrite and should have killed it then thats what you should have said....

You have to blame bush. He started this current program. Seriously you partisan hackness is showing. Pathetic.
I blame bush, I blame congress, I blame obama.
I do blame obama and he should of killed it, but I feel it goes beyond one person now.
Stop playing the blame game and look at the big picture.

that might fly if bush was still president and if Obama hadn't been president for the last 5 years and if Obama hadn't reapproved the patriot act. but given those facts your argument now sounds as ridiculous as you.

They are both to blame. You people cant even see the forrest. You are busy on a blade of grass.

 

[MondoBongo]

oh not so fats, thats not what you said here;

Well in a sense yes, because who is going to give up that sort of power.? The thing is though it doesnt matter who is in the white house. This was going to happen

obama made the case against it, he then kept it alive, and again you make tis out to be bushs baby, read my response to clayton, you again reflexively blame bush, obama could have pulled the plug on this any time he wanted to, but, he didn't so please, cut the shit, boooosh boooosh booosh....

the Pat. act had bipartisan sppt. as well, stop trying to dance. If you intended to say obama is a hypocrite and should have killed it then thats what you should have said....

You have to blame bush. He started this current program. Seriously you partisan hackness is showing. Pathetic.
I blame bush, I blame congress, I blame obama.
I do blame obama and he should of killed it, but I feel it goes beyond one person now.
Stop playing the blame game and look at the big picture.

that might fly if bush was still president and if Obama hadn't been president for the last 5 years and if Obama hadn't reapproved the patriot act. but given those facts your argument now sounds as ridiculous as you.

government overreach is government overreach no matter who is in charge. You were warned about it when Bush was president, but you didn't care. So why do you care now?

 

[Clementine]

What I'm getting from the OP is that it's Bushes fault that people in the Obama administration are misusing the Patriot Act to spy on Americans. I guess Bush and the congress should not have done this because they provided the current administration with a way to abuse power.