Your thoughts on this? ("Should we really still be calling it ‪'Columbus Day?'‬")

[Meathead]

[QUOTE="frigidweirdo, post: 9961914, member: 47831"
Ie, ignore anything that's a little too inconvenient.

I bet you'll big up a lot of things.

Do you ignore the trail of tears by any chance?

Surely, a person should be able to accept their country for the good and the bad, and want the future to be more good than bad.

I mean, when it is people trying to justify things in the last decade which are as bad as what happened 300 years ago, you know you haven't learnt a damn thing from history.[/QUOTE]

What I have learned from history is that mass migrations displace people. The Ainu in Japan, the Bushmen of Africa, the Greeks and Armenians of Anatolia, the Berbers of North Africa and I could go on, but even you probably get the picture. I don't see the Japanese, Africans, Turks or Arabs falling over themselves in self-flagellation over things that happened in the days of yore.

The only ones that seem to be doing so are a whiny and self-righteous element of Western Civilization.

 

[Kondor3]

I have no compulsion to justify anything which was not of my doing. I simply find those that do tiresome and whiny.

Ie, ignore anything that's a little too inconvenient.

I bet you'll big up a lot of things.

Do you ignore the trail of tears by any chance?

Surely, a person should be able to accept their country for the good and the bad, and want the future to be more good than bad.

I mean, when it is people trying to justify things in the last decade which are as bad as what happened 300 years ago, you know you haven't learnt a damn thing from history.

The Penitent Monk Room is down this hall, second door to the Left.

They have hair shirts, earth to pour over the head, whips for guilty self-flagellation, and deposit boxes in which to drop-off the titles to your property, to donate to the Natives, as penance for our collective ancestral sins.

Should you choose to enter, you'll be in good company, I'm sure.

The rest of us will be enjoying a hot coffee or cocoa or sippin' on a tall one and having a good chuckle over the Penitent Monk Room and its customers.

Enjoy.

 

[frigidweirdo]

...Except the Basques were there and had been there, by estimates, quite a while already...

If it wasn't documented and prove-able and if the knowledge wasn't shared, then it's as if it never happened, and doesn't count for much.

That's why we call it Columbus Day, and not Basque Whaling Vessel Landfall Day.

Oh, right, so, history that is inconvenient is ignored. Gotcha.

What was there when Columbus arrived? People. Discovery, my ass.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I have no compulsion to justify anything which was not of my doing. I simply find those that do tiresome and whiny.

Ie, ignore anything that's a little too inconvenient.

I bet you'll big up a lot of things.

Do you ignore the trail of tears by any chance?

Surely, a person should be able to accept their country for the good and the bad, and want the future to be more good than bad.

I mean, when it is people trying to justify things in the last decade which are as bad as what happened 300 years ago, you know you haven't learnt a damn thing from history.

The Penitent Monk Room is down this hall, second door to the Left.

They have hair shirts, earth to pour over the head, whips for guilty self-flagellation, and deposit boxes in which to drop-off the titles to your property, to donate to the Natives, as penance for our collective ancestral sins.

Should you choose to enter, you'll be in good company, I'm sure.

The rest of us will be enjoying a hot coffee or cocoa or sippin' on a tall one and having a good chuckle over the Penitent Monk Room and its customers.

Enjoy.

I'll take that as you ignoring the trail of tears then! To inconvenient.

 

[hazlnut]

If not for Columbus, the indians would still be living in teepees and living as hunter-gatherers. They should thank their lucky stars that he showed up.

Genocide is "lucky"?

 

[Kondor3]

I have no compulsion to justify anything which was not of my doing. I simply find those that do tiresome and whiny.

Ie, ignore anything that's a little too inconvenient.

I bet you'll big up a lot of things.

Do you ignore the trail of tears by any chance?

Surely, a person should be able to accept their country for the good and the bad, and want the future to be more good than bad.

I mean, when it is people trying to justify things in the last decade which are as bad as what happened 300 years ago, you know you haven't learnt a damn thing from history.

The Penitent Monk Room is down this hall, second door to the Left.

They have hair shirts, earth to pour over the head, whips for guilty self-flagellation, and deposit boxes in which to drop-off the titles to your property, to donate to the Natives, as penance for our collective ancestral sins.

Should you choose to enter, you'll be in good company, I'm sure.

The rest of us will be enjoying a hot coffee or cocoa or sippin' on a tall one and having a good chuckle over the Penitent Monk Room and its customers.

Enjoy.

I'll take that as you ignoring the trail of tears then! To inconvenient.

The 'Penitent Monks Room'... down that hall, second door on the Left... hurry, now.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What I have learned from history is that mass migrations displace people. The Ainu in Japan, the Bushmen of Africa, the Greeks and Armenians of Anatolia, the Berbers of North Africa and I could go on, but even you probably get the picture. I don't see the Japanese, Africans, Turks or Arabs falling over themselves in self-flagellation over things that happened in the days of yore.

The only ones that seem to be doing so are a whiny and self-righteous element of Western Civilization.

Yeah, the ones who are the most advanced.

Surely if you're claiming to be the most intelligent, you should at least attempt to be there.

Generally this ignorance leads to your govt doing bad things to you. With people who understand and respect the past but who also learn from it, they are less likely to kill you in the future.

 

[hazlnut]

The Vikings were here first.

Screw the wop.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Down that hall, second door on the Left... hurry, now.

What else do you ignore?

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Vikings were here first.

Screw the wop.

No, they weren't the first. Potentially they were the first Europeans.

Clearly there were others there before who weren't European.

 

[Kondor3]

Down that hall, second door on the Left... hurry, now.

What else do you ignore?

You remind me of an old girlfriend.

Whiny beyond belief, and always had to get-in the last word.

You've had your say.

Give it a rest... or join your comrades in the Penitent Monks Room... either one is fine.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You remind me of an old girlfriend.

Whiny beyond belief, and always had to get-in the last word.

You've had your say.

Give it a rest... or join your comrades in the Penitent Monks Room... either one is fine.

I make the assumption that you come on this board because you want to talk politics. But you seem not to want to bother.

As for the last word, you just tried to get it in. Go on, have another go.

The reality is, you're ignoring things. I just want to know why. Clearly prodding you with a stick isn't working. I've tried just asking you questions, doesn't work either, so it leaves me confused as to why you're here.

 

[hazlnut]

From his very first contact with native people, Columbus had their domination in mind.

For example, on October 14, 1492, Columbus wrote in his journal, "with fifty men they can all be subjugated and made to do what is required of them." These were not mere words: after his second voyage, Columbus sent back a consignment of natives to be sold as slaves.

Yet in an April, 1493, letter to Luis de Santangel (a patron who helped fund the first voyage), Columbus made clear that the people he encountered had done nothing to deserve ill treatment. According to Columbus:

"they are artless and generous with what they have, to such a degree as no one would believe but him who had seen it. Of anything they have, if it be asked for, they never say no, but do rather invite the person to accept it, and show as much lovingness as though they would give their hearts."

Nonetheless, later in the letter Columbus went on to say:

"their Highnesses may see that I shall give them as much gold as they need .... and slaves as many as they shall order to be shipped."

 

[hazlnut]

The Vikings were here first.

Screw the wop.

No, they weren't the first. Potentially they were the first Europeans.

Clearly there were others there before who weren't European.

Eskimos?

 

[Meathead]

What I have learned from history is that mass migrations displace people. The Ainu in Japan, the Bushmen of Africa, the Greeks and Armenians of Anatolia, the Berbers of North Africa and I could go on, but even you probably get the picture. I don't see the Japanese, Africans, Turks or Arabs falling over themselves in self-flagellation over things that happened in the days of yore.

The only ones that seem to be doing so are a whiny and self-righteous element of Western Civilization.

Yeah, the ones who are the most advanced.

Surely if you're claiming to be the most intelligent, you should at least attempt to be there.

Generally this ignorance leads to your govt doing bad things to you. With people who understand and respect the past but who also learn from it, they are less likely to kill you in the future.

Your insinuation that guilt and self-righteousness is the "most advanced" is about as primitive a notion as possilbe.

No one is saying that you can't self-flagellate, but don't ask that others share your pathology.

 

[Kondor3]

You remind me of an old girlfriend.

Whiny beyond belief, and always had to get-in the last word.

You've had your say.

Give it a rest... or join your comrades in the Penitent Monks Room... either one is fine.

I make the assumption that you come on this board because you want to talk politics. But you seem not to want to bother.

As for the last word, you just tried to get it in. Go on, have another go.

The reality is, you're ignoring things. I just want to know why. Clearly prodding you with a stick isn't working. I've tried just asking you questions, doesn't work either, so it leaves me confused as to why you're here.

The reality is, the Whiny Left has been getting on people's nerves for years, and all this hair-shirt tearing and pissing and moaning over the European conquest of the Americas is old news, tiresome and boring news, and represents something about which very little can now be done, without a time machine, anyway.

There is a certain species of poster who lives to bemoan the sins of their fathers and who hate their own kind so much that they will go out of their way to beleaguer their culture and its history and focus on the negative nearly to exclusion rather than accent the positive.

As to asking questions... you already have your mind made up... you are not here to debate... you are here to piss and moan and point guilty fingers... you're not fooling anybody.

Personally, I find it highly amusing... something to poke some good-natured fun at... as people will oftentimes do for customers of the Penitent Monks Room.

The lesson we take from the European Conquest of the New World is that Shit Happens.

The Strong almost always gobble-up the Weak.

Afterwards - sometimes - the Strong think too long and hard on what's happened - and grow Weak themselves in the process.

The products of that Weakness put on the hair shirt and enter the Penitent Monks Room.

While the rest of the world chooses not to go down that path.

Shit Happens.

Nowadays, that's why we have the Prime Directive.

But, lacking a Time Machine, there's not one helluva lot we're gonna do about what happened in the 1500s or 1600s.

Nor should we try... it's a waste of time and energy and spirit.

I'm not here to debate the relative merits of the European Conquest of the New World - I'm here to vote in favor of retaining the label 'Columbus Day', and gave my reasons.

As to the rest, well...

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Vikings were here first.

Screw the wop.

No, they weren't the first. Potentially they were the first Europeans.

Clearly there were others there before who weren't European.

Eskimos?

Well, all the Native American peoples that were clearly there when Columbus landed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The reality is, the Whiny Left has been getting on people's nerves for years, and all this hair-shirt tearing and pissing and moaning over the European conquest of the Americas is old news, tiresome and boring news, and represents something about which very little can now be done, without a time machine, anyway.

There is a certain species of poster who lives to bemoan the sins of their fathers and who hate their own kind so much that they will go out of their way to beleaguer their culture and its history and focus on the negative nearly to exclusion rather than accent the positive.

As to asking questions... you already have your mind made up... you are not here to debate... you are here to piss and moan and point guilty fingers... you're not fooling anybody.

Personally, I find it highly amusing... something to poke some good-natured fun at... as people will oftentimes do for customers of the Penitent Monks Room.

The lesson we take from the European Conquest of the New World is that Shit Happens.

The Strong almost always gobble-up the Weak.

Afterwards - sometimes - the Strong think too long and hard on what's happened - and grow Weak themselves in the process.

The products of that Weakness put on the hair shirt and enter the Penitent Monks Room.

While the rest of the world chooses not to go down that path.

Shit Happens.

Nowadays, that's why we have the Prime Directive.

But, lacking a Time Machine, there's not one helluva lot we're gonna do about what happened in the 1500s or 1600s.

Nor should we try... it's a waste of time and energy and spirit.

I'm not here to debate the relative merits of the European Conquest of the New World - I'm here to vote in favor of retaining the label 'Columbus Day', and gave my reasons.

As to the rest, well...

By getting on people's nerves, I assume you mean, getting on the nerves of those on the right. Hardly surprising. Obama could give George Dubya Bush the Best President Ever Award and the right would moan about it.
Do you really think anyone cares to hear that the right doesn't like the left? It's not new, never will be, so what?

Little can be done about what happened in the past. But a lot can be done about now.

History is an amazing tool. Not only for learning skills, such as making an argument, back it up etc, but writing skills and many more. However it's also a tool for teaching kids what not to do, learning from history, some do, others make mistakes.

Many people could see what would happen in Iraq, why? They've seen it before. Not in the same way, but similar.

So why have Columbus Day if you want to ignore all that happened? Really, what is the point of celebrating someone who you don't want to even discuss? Doesn't make sense.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Your insinuation that guilt and self-righteousness is the "most advanced" is about as primitive a notion as possilbe.

No one is saying that you can't self-flagellate, but don't ask that others share your pathology.

Only because you choose to label looking back at bad stuff in history as "guilt".

 

[Meathead]

Only because you choose to label looking back at bad stuff in history as "guilt".

Your guilt is your own pathology and you've every right to it. You are also the one who has to deal with it. I just hate the whining.