Cecilie1200
Diamond Member
- Nov 15, 2008
- 55,062
- 16,609
Okay, how about we cut through all the talking-past-each-other, I'm-sure-I-heard-this-somewhere bullshit and lay out what the public actually knows about this case, so that we're all more-or-less on the same page?
George Zimmerman is a member of his local neighborhood watch. That evening, he was going to the grocery store - NOT patrolling for the watch. He was carrying a gun, which he is licensed to do. He observed Trayvon Martin, who was returning to his father's fiancee's townhome after a trip to the store, walking behind the townhomes rather slowly and apparently looking at the houses, despite the fact that it was raining. Finding this suspicious, he dialed the police non-emergency number.
During the 4-minute, 11-second recording, he identified the suspicious person as a black male, late teens, when asked by the dispatcher, said that Martin was now looking at him and then coming toward him (although he was still sitting in his vehicle at this time), and then said that Martin was running. At that point, the sounds on the recording indicate that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and was walking. Apparently because of this, the dispatcher asked him if he was following, and Zimmerman said he was. The dispatcher told him that they didn't need him to do that, and Zimmerman agreed. He and the dispatcher discuss where he should meet the officer being sent out, and Zimmerman starts to give his address, but says he doesn't want to give it all, because he doesn't know where Martin is. He then asks the dispatcher to have the officers call him when they arrive, and he will tell them where he is at that time. They confirm that the dispatcher has his correct number, and the call ends.
For time clarification, Zimmerman's call to the police began at 7:09 pm, and as I have said, lasted 4 minutes and 11 seconds (this according to their recording and time stamps).
Trayvon Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him beginning at 7:12 pm, according to the phone company records. I am not sure how long her call lasted. She claims that Martin told her "some man" was following him, and she advised him to run. She also says that she heard Martin ask someone, "What are you following me for?" and another voice saying, "What are you doing here?" She says she then "heard the sound of pushing", whatever that might be, and Martin's headset went silent, leading her to believe he'd been pushed. She tried to call him back, but got no answer. There is no recording of her conversation with Martin to confirm or dispute her account of what was said.
Timothy Smith, the first police officer on the scene, reported finding Martin on the ground, face-down and unresponsive, and Zimmerman standing near him. He also observed that Zimmerman's back was wet and covered with grass and that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head. Smith took Zimmerman's gun and handcuffed him.
The second and third officers on the scene began CPR on Martin, which was continued by paramedics when they arrived until Martin was declared dead at 7:30 pm. Other officers arrived, secured the scene, and collected witness statements. Zimmerman was treated by the paramedics at the scene, declined to go to the hospital, and was placed in Officer Smith's vehicle. At that time, he said, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." He was then taken to the police station and questioned.
Martin's body was taken to the morgue and marked as a "John Doe". His father called to file a missing person's report the next day, and officers quickly arrived at his fiancee's townhome with photographs for him to identify.
A witness to the confrontation, identified as "John", said that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling 'Help! Help!', and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911." He then says that when he looked back, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
Another witness, a 13-year-old boy, said he saw a man on the ground shortly before the shooting and that he was wearing red. His mother later disputed her son's story.
Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, admit that they did not see the shooting or the confrontation before it, but nevertheless have stated that they believe there was "no punching, no hitting, no wrestling" before the shooting. They say they heard the two men in their backyard, and "a very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They say they heard a gunshot, the crying stopped, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees, straddling Martin. Mary Cutcher phoned the police after the shooting and told them that the black man was standing over another man, although Martin was already dead. Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern issued a statement disputing the statements Cutcher made on television, calling them "inconsistent" with their sworn testimony to the police.
A male witness said he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.
A witness identified as female said that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.
A witness who arrived just after the shooting took pictures of the back of Zimmerman's head, showing two cuts, blood, and a developing contusion. He said he heard the scuffle, but didn't see it.
Some of the recordings of the various 911 calls include the sound of someone shouting for help. Martin's mother insists it is his voice, and Zimmerman's father and other relatives insist it is his. It should be noted the Special Prosecuter Corey's Affidavit of Probable Cause mentions only Martin's mother's perspective, and not the Zimmerman family's. The FBI has been unable to determine which it was.
The lead homicide investigator on the case, Chris Serino, allegedly filed an affidavit the night of the incident claiming to be unconvinced by Zimmerman's account and recommending manslaughter charges. He was - also allegedly - told by the state attorney's office that there was insufficient evidence to obtain a conviction.
George Zimmerman was questioned by investigator D. Singleton, and released without charges. He told investigators that after his call to the police ended, he was returning to his vehicle, and Martin approached him from behind.
According to statements made by Zimmerman's father, Martin asked Zimmerman, "Do you have a problem?" Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, at which point Martin punched him in the face, knocked him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.
Zimmerman stated that he called out for help, and that at one point, Martin covered his mouth to muffle him.
Also according to Zimmerman's father's statements, Martin saw Zimmerman's gun while he was on top of him, they struggled for it, and Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.
Early press reports mistakenly said that there were two gunshots, but in fact the gun was fired only once.
Zimmerman claimed self-defense, and investigators and the State Attorney's office both said that there was insufficient evidence to dispute that, and no probable cause to arrest him.
State Attorney Wolfinger initially announced, after public outcry, that a grand jury would be convened to investigate Martin's death, but Special Prosecutor Angela Corey announced that her office, not the grand jury, would decide whether to press charges.
Medical records by Zimmerman's doctor indicate that he was seen the day after the shooting, and was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek.
Autopsy results on Martin show a fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.
Zimmerman was taken into custody on April 11, almost two months after the incident, and charged with 2nd-degree murder.
Zimmerman's bail was set at $150,000 on April 20, and he took the stand to express his sorrow over Martin's death. He was released on bail on April 23, fitted with an electronic monitoring device, and has entered a "not guilty" plea.
This what we KNOW, from the evidence that has been currently released to the public. There is clearly more evidence that has not been released to the public as yet.
George Zimmerman is a member of his local neighborhood watch. That evening, he was going to the grocery store - NOT patrolling for the watch. He was carrying a gun, which he is licensed to do. He observed Trayvon Martin, who was returning to his father's fiancee's townhome after a trip to the store, walking behind the townhomes rather slowly and apparently looking at the houses, despite the fact that it was raining. Finding this suspicious, he dialed the police non-emergency number.
During the 4-minute, 11-second recording, he identified the suspicious person as a black male, late teens, when asked by the dispatcher, said that Martin was now looking at him and then coming toward him (although he was still sitting in his vehicle at this time), and then said that Martin was running. At that point, the sounds on the recording indicate that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and was walking. Apparently because of this, the dispatcher asked him if he was following, and Zimmerman said he was. The dispatcher told him that they didn't need him to do that, and Zimmerman agreed. He and the dispatcher discuss where he should meet the officer being sent out, and Zimmerman starts to give his address, but says he doesn't want to give it all, because he doesn't know where Martin is. He then asks the dispatcher to have the officers call him when they arrive, and he will tell them where he is at that time. They confirm that the dispatcher has his correct number, and the call ends.
For time clarification, Zimmerman's call to the police began at 7:09 pm, and as I have said, lasted 4 minutes and 11 seconds (this according to their recording and time stamps).
Trayvon Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him beginning at 7:12 pm, according to the phone company records. I am not sure how long her call lasted. She claims that Martin told her "some man" was following him, and she advised him to run. She also says that she heard Martin ask someone, "What are you following me for?" and another voice saying, "What are you doing here?" She says she then "heard the sound of pushing", whatever that might be, and Martin's headset went silent, leading her to believe he'd been pushed. She tried to call him back, but got no answer. There is no recording of her conversation with Martin to confirm or dispute her account of what was said.
Timothy Smith, the first police officer on the scene, reported finding Martin on the ground, face-down and unresponsive, and Zimmerman standing near him. He also observed that Zimmerman's back was wet and covered with grass and that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head. Smith took Zimmerman's gun and handcuffed him.
The second and third officers on the scene began CPR on Martin, which was continued by paramedics when they arrived until Martin was declared dead at 7:30 pm. Other officers arrived, secured the scene, and collected witness statements. Zimmerman was treated by the paramedics at the scene, declined to go to the hospital, and was placed in Officer Smith's vehicle. At that time, he said, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." He was then taken to the police station and questioned.
Martin's body was taken to the morgue and marked as a "John Doe". His father called to file a missing person's report the next day, and officers quickly arrived at his fiancee's townhome with photographs for him to identify.
A witness to the confrontation, identified as "John", said that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling 'Help! Help!', and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911." He then says that when he looked back, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
Another witness, a 13-year-old boy, said he saw a man on the ground shortly before the shooting and that he was wearing red. His mother later disputed her son's story.
Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, admit that they did not see the shooting or the confrontation before it, but nevertheless have stated that they believe there was "no punching, no hitting, no wrestling" before the shooting. They say they heard the two men in their backyard, and "a very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They say they heard a gunshot, the crying stopped, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees, straddling Martin. Mary Cutcher phoned the police after the shooting and told them that the black man was standing over another man, although Martin was already dead. Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern issued a statement disputing the statements Cutcher made on television, calling them "inconsistent" with their sworn testimony to the police.
A male witness said he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.
A witness identified as female said that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.
A witness who arrived just after the shooting took pictures of the back of Zimmerman's head, showing two cuts, blood, and a developing contusion. He said he heard the scuffle, but didn't see it.
Some of the recordings of the various 911 calls include the sound of someone shouting for help. Martin's mother insists it is his voice, and Zimmerman's father and other relatives insist it is his. It should be noted the Special Prosecuter Corey's Affidavit of Probable Cause mentions only Martin's mother's perspective, and not the Zimmerman family's. The FBI has been unable to determine which it was.
The lead homicide investigator on the case, Chris Serino, allegedly filed an affidavit the night of the incident claiming to be unconvinced by Zimmerman's account and recommending manslaughter charges. He was - also allegedly - told by the state attorney's office that there was insufficient evidence to obtain a conviction.
George Zimmerman was questioned by investigator D. Singleton, and released without charges. He told investigators that after his call to the police ended, he was returning to his vehicle, and Martin approached him from behind.
According to statements made by Zimmerman's father, Martin asked Zimmerman, "Do you have a problem?" Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, at which point Martin punched him in the face, knocked him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.
Zimmerman stated that he called out for help, and that at one point, Martin covered his mouth to muffle him.
Also according to Zimmerman's father's statements, Martin saw Zimmerman's gun while he was on top of him, they struggled for it, and Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.
Early press reports mistakenly said that there were two gunshots, but in fact the gun was fired only once.
Zimmerman claimed self-defense, and investigators and the State Attorney's office both said that there was insufficient evidence to dispute that, and no probable cause to arrest him.
State Attorney Wolfinger initially announced, after public outcry, that a grand jury would be convened to investigate Martin's death, but Special Prosecutor Angela Corey announced that her office, not the grand jury, would decide whether to press charges.
Medical records by Zimmerman's doctor indicate that he was seen the day after the shooting, and was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek.
Autopsy results on Martin show a fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.
Zimmerman was taken into custody on April 11, almost two months after the incident, and charged with 2nd-degree murder.
Zimmerman's bail was set at $150,000 on April 20, and he took the stand to express his sorrow over Martin's death. He was released on bail on April 23, fitted with an electronic monitoring device, and has entered a "not guilty" plea.
This what we KNOW, from the evidence that has been currently released to the public. There is clearly more evidence that has not been released to the public as yet.
