Zimmermans First Appearance On Television Today. Looks More Hispanic Than White.

[Foxfyre]

Just checking

Now that you've checked, can you also check your assumption that everyone that doesn't immediately toe the Hannity party line is a leftist shill?

I's not a leftist, and I find the intimation that I am more than a little insulting.

K tkx bai.

I don't watch Hannity all that often and in fact have not watched his show since 2012 began, what are you talking about? Have a link or a video so I at least know where this hannity standard is coming from?

Agreed. I have watched one Hannity program all year and I watched that one only because it was a special on a particularly interesting subject (long before the Zimmerman/Martin case came up.) I hear very occasional snippets from the Limbaugh radio program because he is carried by our No. #1 news station here and it is frequently running in the background. I don't believe I have heard an entire Rush Limbaugh program in a couple of years.

It isn't hard to believe a person is a leftist however when they bring up one or both of those examples of what somebody on the right automatically listens to.

I will say however, that if one does tune into Hannity or Limbaugh for commentary on the Zimmerman/Martin case, they will most likely be much better informed on the facts of the case than they will getting all their information from leftist biased sources. (I personally have not heard what either Hannity or Limbaugh have said on that subject.)

 

[saveliberty]

Hannity on the jury?

 

[catzmeow]

I don't watch Hannity all that often and in fact have not watched his show since 2012 began, what are you talking about? Have a link or a video so I at least know where this hannity standard is coming from?

I'm just being a smart ass. I'm sure you know nothing about that.

I just get tired of hearing that I'm simultaneously an evil conservatard and an evil libruhl.

I'm neither. I don't have a party affiliation at this point in time, and my positions are largely centrist libertarian.

I think the partisans on both sides are idiots.

 

[catzmeow]

Now that you've checked, can you also check your assumption that everyone that doesn't immediately toe the Hannity party line is a leftist shill?

I's not a leftist, and I find the intimation that I am more than a little insulting.

K tkx bai.

I don't watch Hannity all that often and in fact have not watched his show since 2012 began, what are you talking about? Have a link or a video so I at least know where this hannity standard is coming from?

Agreed. I have watched one Hannity program all year and I watched that one only because it was a special on a particularly interesting subject (long before the Zimmerman/Martin case came up.) I hear very occasional snippets from the Limbaugh radio program because he is carried by our No. #1 news station here and it is frequently running in the background. I don't believe I have heard an entire Rush Limbaugh program in a couple of years.

It isn't hard to believe a person is a leftist however when they bring up one or both of those examples of what somebody on the right automatically listens to.

I will say however, that if one does tune into Hannity or Limbaugh for commentary on the Zimmerman/Martin case, they will most likely be much better informed on the facts of the case than they will getting all their information from leftist biased sources. (I personally have not heard what either Hannity or Limbaugh have said on that subject.)

Lengthy response, not based upon leftist biased sources:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/5133971-post377.html

 

[saveliberty]

I don't watch Hannity all that often and in fact have not watched his show since 2012 began, what are you talking about? Have a link or a video so I at least know where this hannity standard is coming from?

I'm just being a smart ass. I'm sure you know nothing about that.

I just get tired of hearing that I'm simultaneously an evil conservatard and an evil libruhl.

I'm neither. I don't have a party affiliation at this point in time, and my positions are largely centrist libertarian.

I think the partisans on both sides are idiots.

Never tires of hearing the evil part though...

 

[catzmeow]

I don't watch Hannity all that often and in fact have not watched his show since 2012 began, what are you talking about? Have a link or a video so I at least know where this hannity standard is coming from?

I'm just being a smart ass. I'm sure you know nothing about that.

I just get tired of hearing that I'm simultaneously an evil conservatard and an evil libruhl.

I'm neither. I don't have a party affiliation at this point in time, and my positions are largely centrist libertarian.

I think the partisans on both sides are idiots.

Never tires of hearing the evil part though...

I work hard on my evil, dammit.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't watch Hannity all that often and in fact have not watched his show since 2012 began, what are you talking about? Have a link or a video so I at least know where this hannity standard is coming from?

Agreed. I have watched one Hannity program all year and I watched that one only because it was a special on a particularly interesting subject (long before the Zimmerman/Martin case came up.) I hear very occasional snippets from the Limbaugh radio program because he is carried by our No. #1 news station here and it is frequently running in the background. I don't believe I have heard an entire Rush Limbaugh program in a couple of years.

It isn't hard to believe a person is a leftist however when they bring up one or both of those examples of what somebody on the right automatically listens to.

I will say however, that if one does tune into Hannity or Limbaugh for commentary on the Zimmerman/Martin case, they will most likely be much better informed on the facts of the case than they will getting all their information from leftist biased sources. (I personally have not heard what either Hannity or Limbaugh have said on that subject.)

Lengthy response, not based upon leftist biased sources:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/5133971-post377.html

Which again totally misses the point that I made. I am quite aware of the difference between race and ethnicity, but that is totaly irrelevent to the issue being discussed. And the energy expended in your now tedious efforts to educate me would be much better utilized in some other pursuit.

You may not see a race-baiting motivation in the use of the term "white Hispanic". I and a lot of other people do. Try focusing on that.

 

[catzmeow]

You may not see a race-baiting motivation in the use of the term "white Hispanic". I and a lot of other people do. Try focusing on that.

Referring to a guy based upon the race he is (as defined by the census for close to 200 years now), is considered "race-baiting" in your world?

You need to get out more. I don't care what your point is, or what groupthink conspiracy tinfoil hat society you've borrowed it from.

You're misusing the term race. Repeatedly.

Words have meanings. When we attempt, knowingly, to distort the meanings of those terms, anarchy follows.

Your inability to use a dictionary correctly is noted.

 

[saveliberty]

So the media was clarifying Mr. Zimmerman's race by using the term used? We are sure that was the motivation? Hispanic was somehow nonspecific? Not sure why either man's race had anything to do with it.

 

[catzmeow]

Not sure why either man's race had anything to do with it.

I'm fairly certain that race had nothing to do with the actual crime, however, it seems like it is fairly standard for news outlets to report the race/ethnicity of suspects and victims in violent crimes, at least, in Florida. I don't know how it's handled in other parts of the U.S.

I've seen plenty of news reports in Miami that refer to "Afro-Caribbeans." Same sort of thing.

One's a reference to race, the other to ethnicity. Of course, we have a lot of folks who live here who are black Hispanic, for instance, i.e. Dominican.

But, it would have been just as accurate to refer to the guy as a "white Jew."

Also, in Zimmerman's case, he appears to be half caucasian (Jewish) and half amer/indian (Peruvian) of Hispanic descent. When you're reporting on an individual of mixed race, how exactly do you believe that should be reported?

I mean, ideally, we would get to the point where race matters about as much as hair color, and isn't reported at all, but that's probably not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Foxfyre]

So the media was clarifying Mr. Zimmerman's race by using the term used? We are sure that was the motivation? Hispanic was somehow nonspecific? Not sure why either man's race had anything to do with it.

Sure you do. It wouldn't make nearly as good a story if it was a "Hispanic" who shot a black teen. The media gives only passing attention to such stories or in similar shootings of white on white, or black on white, or black on black, or Hispanic on Hispanic, etc. etc. etc. But if it's a white guy killing a black guy, they can get weeks, even months of traction out of that because that becomes the story.

They can demonize a white guy far more easily than they can do for any other racial or ethnic group. And generate much more sympathy for the black guy. All you have to do is read this thread or any of the other Zimmerman/Martin threads to see it. Look how hard they work to make this a racial issue. How much they wanted Zimmerman to have said 'coon' instead of 'cold.' NBC even edited their audio version to make it look like Zimmerman was targeting a BLACK man.

I asked before if anybody has EVER seen the term "White Hispanic" used before this case. I sure hadn't. That is as rare as using the term "dark" Hispanic or brown Hispanic. Zimmerman no doubt identifies himself as Hispanic on his census forms. He looks Hispanic. But he doesn't have a Hispanic name and I'm sure the media initially assumed he was a non-Hispanic white. (I HAVE seen and heard THAT term used.) When it turned out he was Hispanic, they were in trouble making it look so much like a race thing.

And so in my opinion, which I believe to be an informed opinion, they use that particular phrase of WHITE Hispanic purely for purposes of race baiting and making it a better story. There is absolutely no other plausible explanation.

 

[catzmeow]

So the media was clarifying Mr. Zimmerman's race by using the term used? We are sure that was the motivation? Hispanic was somehow nonspecific? Not sure why either man's race had anything to do with it.

Sure you do. It wouldn't make nearly as good a story if it was a "Hispanic" who shot a black teen. The media gives only passing attention to such stories or in similar shootings of white on white, or black on white, or black on black, or Hispanic on Hispanic, etc. etc. etc. But if it's a white guy killing a back guy, they can get weeks, even months of traction out of that because that becomes the story.

They can demonize a white guy far more easily than they can do for any other racial or ethnic group. And generate much more sympathy for the black guy. All you have to do is read this thread or any of the other Zimmerman/Martin threads to see it. Look how hard they work to make this a racial issue. How much they wanted Zimmerman to have said 'coon' instead of 'cold.' NBC even edited their audio version to make it look like Zimmerman was targeting a BLACK man.

I asked before if anybody has EVER seen the term "White Hispanic" used before this case. I sure hadn't. Zimmerman no doubt identifies himself as Hispanic on his census forms. He looks Hispanic. But he doesn't have a Hispanic name and I'm sure the media initially assumed he was a non-Hispanic white. (I HAVE seen and heard THAT term used.) When it turned out he was Hispanic, they were in trouble making it look so much like a race thing.

And so in my opinion, which I believe to be an informed opinion, they use that particular phrase of WHITE Hispanic purely for purposes of race baiting and making it a better story. There is absolutely no other plausible explanation.

Anyone who has worked with census data in the past 40 years is familiar with the terms white (Hispanic) and white (non-Hispanic). That's just how data on race/ethnicity is captured and reported in the U.S. since the term Hispanic was added to the 1970 census.

Further, in regions of the U.S. where there are large numbers of black Hispanics (like Orlando or Miami), that's how it's habitually done, because you cannot assume that all "Hispanics" look racially similar. A black Dominican is just as Hispanic as a white Cuban. How things like this are reported in Florida differs substantively from how it is reported in Colorado, for instance, because Florida is home to a lot of Hispanics who are not white (not so true of Colorado or most of the west).

Actually, the current way in which race/ethnicity is captured and reported in the census data is kind of a pain in the ass, because it makes it really difficult to quantify and report on the number of Hispanics in a given community or neighborhood unless you do some analysis to separate out race from ethnicity. If you just look at race, you will get a totally different sense of the demographics of a community than if you look at race+ethnicity.

When it comes to planning and policy-making, you have to go to that next level, because having a large number of Hispanics in a community can equal high levels of ESL students, lots of Spanish-speakers, etc., which might change how you plan for particular outcomes.

Sorry...boring work talk.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

all the race stuff is silly and irrellivant to what actually happened anyway.


Yeah Zimmermans mom is hispanic (black hispanic), dad is white making him half white half hispanic (black hispanic).

Martin was black.

Martin being black and zimmerman being mixed white/latino had nothing to do with it from all honest reporting accounts (IE the NON-edited 911 calls)

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, Pilgrim, if the media was as impartial and objective and accurate as we wish the media was, race would not be an issue in this case. But im my opinion anybody who tries to pretend that it isn't, is either brain washed or hopelessly ignorant.

To Catz, the U.S. Census bureau reports racial demographics thusly:

White persons, percent, 2010 (a) 72.4%
Black persons, percent, 2010 (a) 12.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2010 (a) 0.9%
Asian persons, percent, 2010 (a) 4.8%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2010 (a) 0.2%
Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2010 2.9%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2010 (b) 16.3%
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010 63.7%
USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Please point out where the U.S. Census bureau uses the term "white Hispanic" or even breaks it down.

 

[catzmeow]

all the race stuff is silly and irrellivant to what actually happened anyway.


Yeah Zimmermans mom is hispanic (black hispanic), dad is white making him half white half hispanic (black hispanic).

Martin was black.

Martin being black and zimmerman being mixed white/latino had nothing to do with it from all honest reporting accounts (IE the NON-edited 911 calls)

Actually, from what I've read, the mom would be most accurately classified as indigenous racially (Amer/Indian by American standards). So, Martin is half white/half Amer/Indian, and ethnically Hispanic.

Could we get any more complicated?

 

[catzmeow]

Yes, Pilgrim, if the media was as impartial and objective and accurate as we wish the media was, race would not be an issue in this case. But im my opinion anybody who tries to pretend that it isn't, is either brain washed or hopelessly ignorant.

To Catz, the U.S. Census bureau reports racial demographics thusly:

White persons, percent, 2010 (a) 72.4%
Black persons, percent, 2010 (a) 12.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2010 (a) 0.9%
Asian persons, percent, 2010 (a) 4.8%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2010 (a) 0.2%
Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2010 2.9%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2010 (b) 16.3%
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010 63.7%
USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Please point out where the U.S. Census bureau uses the term "white Hispanic" or even breaks it down.

As I've explained repeatedly, the 16.3% is a subset of the five race categories which precede it (white, black, Amer/Indian, Asian, and Islander). The 16.3% of Americans of Hispanic ethnicity come primarily from the white, black, and Amer/Indian racial categories.

If you doubt me, try doing the math yourself. Add all of the numbers in your column except for white (non-Hispanic). You'll end up with more than 100%. If you remove the 16.3% of Hispanics, you'll also end up with slightly less than 100%, because in your post above, you've left out the racial category of other, which is around 5% of the U.S. population. (Other is a self-report category that allows census users to define their race in their own terms.)

Here is the Census Bureau's official explanations of this issue:

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf
About Race - U.S. Census Bureau

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, Pilgrim, if the media was as impartial and objective and accurate as we wish the media was, race would not be an issue in this case. But im my opinion anybody who tries to pretend that it isn't, is either brain washed or hopelessly ignorant.

To Catz, the U.S. Census bureau reports racial demographics thusly:

White persons, percent, 2010 (a) 72.4%
Black persons, percent, 2010 (a) 12.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2010 (a) 0.9%
Asian persons, percent, 2010 (a) 4.8%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2010 (a) 0.2%
Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2010 2.9%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2010 (b) 16.3%
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010 63.7%
USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Please point out where the U.S. Census bureau uses the term "white Hispanic" or even breaks it down.

As I've explained repeatedly, the 16.3% is a subset of the five race categories which precede it (white, black, Amer/Indian, Asian, and Islander). The 16.3% of Americans of Hispanic ethnicity come primarily from the white, black, and Amer/Indian racial categories.

If you doubt me, try doing the math yourself. Add all of the numbers in your column except for white (non-Hispanic). You'll end up with more than 100%. If you remove the 16.3% of Hispanics, you'll also end up with slightly less than 100%, because in your post above, you've left out the racial category of other, which is around 5% of the U.S. population. (Other is a self-report category that allows census users to define their race in their own terms.)

Here is the Census Bureau's official explanations of this issue:

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf
About Race - U.S. Census Bureau

Yes, you've now repeated it to the point of being montonous. And as I have also now repeated to the point of being monotonous, your 'scientific' analysis is 100% irrelevent when it comes to the media using the term 'white Hispanic', which the U.S. Census bureau does not use, for the purposes of race baiting to enhance what would otherwise be just one more routine shooting.

 

[catzmeow]

[Yes, you've now repeated it to the point of being montonous. And as I have also now repeated to the point of being monotonous, your 'scientific' analysis is 100% irrelevent when it comes to the media using the term 'white Hispanic', which the U.S. Census bureau does not use, for the purposes of race baiting to enhance what would otherwise be just one more routine shooting.

I guess it only became monotonous and irrelevant after you'd posted it as evidence, and I explained that you weren't interpreting the data correctly?

Lulz.

Why lose your paradigms just because of inconvenient facts, right?

 

[Againsheila]

How come, when white people say they want illegals sent home, they are racist, but when an hispanic shoots someone, they are white?

 

[saveliberty]

So the media was clarifying Mr. Zimmerman's race by using the term used? We are sure that was the motivation? Hispanic was somehow nonspecific? Not sure why either man's race had anything to do with it.

Sure you do. It wouldn't make nearly as good a story if it was a "Hispanic" who shot a black teen. The media gives only passing attention to such stories or in similar shootings of white on white, or black on white, or black on black, or Hispanic on Hispanic, etc. etc. etc. But if it's a white guy killing a back guy, they can get weeks, even months of traction out of that because that becomes the story.

They can demonize a white guy far more easily than they can do for any other racial or ethnic group. And generate much more sympathy for the black guy. All you have to do is read this thread or any of the other Zimmerman/Martin threads to see it. Look how hard they work to make this a racial issue. How much they wanted Zimmerman to have said 'coon' instead of 'cold.' NBC even edited their audio version to make it look like Zimmerman was targeting a BLACK man.

I asked before if anybody has EVER seen the term "White Hispanic" used before this case. I sure hadn't. Zimmerman no doubt identifies himself as Hispanic on his census forms. He looks Hispanic. But he doesn't have a Hispanic name and I'm sure the media initially assumed he was a non-Hispanic white. (I HAVE seen and heard THAT term used.) When it turned out he was Hispanic, they were in trouble making it look so much like a race thing.

And so in my opinion, which I believe to be an informed opinion, they use that particular phrase of WHITE Hispanic purely for purposes of race baiting and making it a better story. There is absolutely no other plausible explanation.

Anyone who has worked with census data in the past 40 years is familiar with the terms white (Hispanic) and white (non-Hispanic). That's just how data on race/ethnicity is captured and reported in the U.S. since the term Hispanic was added to the 1970 census.

Further, in regions of the U.S. where there are large numbers of black Hispanics (like Orlando or Miami), that's how it's habitually done, because you cannot assume that all "Hispanics" look racially similar. A black Dominican is just as Hispanic as a white Cuban. How things like this are reported in Florida differs substantively from how it is reported in Colorado, for instance, because Florida is home to a lot of Hispanics who are not white (not so true of Colorado or most of the west).

Actually, the current way in which race/ethnicity is captured and reported in the census data is kind of a pain in the ass, because it makes it really difficult to quantify and report on the number of Hispanics in a given community or neighborhood unless you do some analysis to separate out race from ethnicity. If you just look at race, you will get a totally different sense of the demographics of a community than if you look at race+ethnicity.

When it comes to planning and policy-making, you have to go to that next level, because having a large number of Hispanics in a community can equal high levels of ESL students, lots of Spanish-speakers, etc., which might change how you plan for particular outcomes.

Sorry...boring work talk.

So Black Hispanic or White Hispanic makes a difference to me up in Michigan? Planning for pacticular outcomes is exactly the reason here too.