$16 Million Fine for Building Pond on Private Property

[Camp]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Why would it destroy the resource?
Once the pond is full the water will continue to flow.

It will only continue to flow at the rate the dam builder allows after taking the amount the dam builder wants and after adding any contaminates that the dam builder wants. The dam builder is trying to take control of a public resource without permission or supervision.

 

[Lakhota]

This thread reminds me of another freeloader - Cliven Bundy.

And you remind me why the indians never got past the stone age.

Oh, but we did. Learn some Native American history.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Why would it destroy the resource?
Once the pond is full the water will continue to flow.

It will only continue to flow at the rate the dam builder allows after taking the amount the dam builder wants and after adding any contaminates that the dam builder wants. The dam builder is trying to take control of a public resource without permission or supervision.

You're full of shit.
When the pond reaches capacity it will continue at it's former rate of flow.
And do you really believe he's going to contaminate the water his animals are going to be drinking?
You're a complete nutter.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This thread reminds me of another freeloader - Cliven Bundy.

And you remind me why the indians never got past the stone age.

Oh, but we did. Learn some Native American history.

Only after the white man showed up.

 

[Camp]

Do you understand that you don't own the surface water flowing through your property, you can't just damn it and grab it, and that it's always been that way?

You dumbass! Once the pond is full the water flows over a spillway and continues to flow down stream.

The water on spills over the spillway and flow downstream when a specific amount of water is allowed to accumulate in the reservoir. During droughts the land owner could prevent any water from flowing downstream.
The point is that the water passing through the owners property is not the owners property. It is a shared resource by all the communities it flows through and impacts from it's source to it's end. Centuries of established law gives ownership of the water to the public.

 

[Lakhota]

This thread reminds me of another freeloader - Cliven Bundy.

And you remind me why the indians never got past the stone age.

Oh, but we did. Learn some Native American history.

Only after the white man showed up.

Not true. Learn some Native American history.

The Six Nations: Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Do you understand that you don't own the surface water flowing through your property, you can't just damn it and grab it, and that it's always been that way?

You dumbass! Once the pond is full the water flows over a spillway and continues to flow down stream.

The water on spills over the spillway and flow downstream when a specific amount of water is allowed to accumulate in the reservoir. During droughts the land owner could prevent any water from flowing downstream.
The point is that the water passing through the owners property is not the owners property. It is a shared resource by all the communities it flows through and impacts from it's source to it's end. Centuries of established law gives ownership of the water to the public.

If there's a drought there wouldnt be any water flowing down stream regardless.

 

[eagle1462010]

I saw this following article on T.V. They wanted a simple lake home. Got all the permits. Checked the Zoning, even the wet land charts. The place they were building on wasn't on the wet land maps. They fought the EPA and won. They were one of the lucky ones.

In the middle of starting construction, A DECREE, came from the EPA as they were told to stop the construction and restore the land to it's original state immediately or suffer 37.5k in daily fines for .63 of an acre not even listed on the wet land maps................

They should not have this kind of power. It is abusive. They should have to take the people they are ordering to court BEFORE ANY FINES CAN BE IMPOSED...............PERIOD............NOT BY DECREE.......
Mike and Chantell Sackett vs. the EPA - Businessweek

But Liberals love Gov't and power.............and are fine with FINES VIA ROYAL DECREE.............

It is a disgrace to our country and the systems of protection for our people. Haven't read into this case enough............seems the DECREE was issued.............and the guy said WTF............I got my permits...............Ordered to fix it without even giving the man a day in court to challenge it...........with daily fines that are TYRANNICAL..............

Is this what we've become.................Unlawful seizures by a Federal Agency with too much power.............

This stinks to the high heavens.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This thread reminds me of another freeloader - Cliven Bundy.

And you remind me why the indians never got past the stone age.

Oh, but we did. Learn some Native American history.

Only after the white man showed up.

Not true. Learn some Native American history.

The Six Nations: Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

What the hell does that have to do with never getting out of the stone age?
You morons were still living in hide tents.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[nuhuh]

A pond versus a dam is a big deal when you are talking about water in the drought plagued west. Nevertheless, the parties are still talking:

In a statement to Fox News, the EPA said in part: “EPA staff recently had a productive discussion with Mr. Johnson, and we are currently reviewing information he sent to our attention regarding his construction of a dam and pond within Six Mile Creek. EPA will carefully evaluate this information and will continue to reach out to Mr. Johnson to identify options to secure compliance with the Clean Water Act.”

 

[RodISHI]

We have a rural water line but have not used it for years. We either use the water from our own well or water we catch in containers. When the local county guy asked "why won't you let us give you $200.00 to fill in that well" twenty plus years ago I laughed at him.

 

[Camp]

Do you understand that you don't own the surface water flowing through your property, you can't just damn it and grab it, and that it's always been that way?

You dumbass! Once the pond is full the water flows over a spillway and continues to flow down stream.

The water on spills over the spillway and flow downstream when a specific amount of water is allowed to accumulate in the reservoir. During droughts the land owner could prevent any water from flowing downstream.
The point is that the water passing through the owners property is not the owners property. It is a shared resource by all the communities it flows through and impacts from it's source to it's end. Centuries of established law gives ownership of the water to the public.

If there's a drought there wouldnt be any water flowing down stream regardless.

Ya, because all droughts mean no water or plenty of water when there is not a drought. There are no such things as levels or degrees of drought and rain fall. The bucket is either totally full or totally empty. No land owner would ever think of filling holding tanks or storage tanks in the west were people have been fighting over water for over 150 years, livestock never causes pollution and no one would ever think of diverting water resources for profit. Laws controlling jointly owned public resources are not needed because all property owners are always honest and have the best interest of society in the forefront. None of them ever gets greedy or selfish.

 

[OKTexas]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Didn't read the link did ya, scientific test have proven the pond has improved downstream water quality. Fuck off ignorant ass.

 

[OKTexas]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

I hope you notice the attempt to justify this by our intrepid socialist/leftist nuhu

I didn't do anything except add facts to your potpourri of bullshit. The man built a dam not a pond, that is a huge difference.

The only way to create a pond is to build a dam dumb ass.

 

[nuhuh]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Didn't read the link did ya, scientific test have proven the pond has improved downstream water quality. Fuck off ignorant ass.

Ignoring the fact that the dam is his, but the water that flows through it is not his. In the western part of the United States water is an important commodity you do not divert it for your own needs, you do not impede the flow to serve your own purpose.

 

[Camp]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Didn't read the link did ya, scientific test have proven the pond has improved downstream water quality. Fuck off ignorant ass.

Private test done by the dam builder, but that is not the point. The guy should be fighting with the state if his story is true. Something is not adding up. Why would the state tell him he was clear to build when they would know he needed fed approval. There is something to this story not being told.
In any case, further research into the story indicates the feds are trying to work something out that will not impact the property owner in what appears to be a state vs fed turf war over water rights.

 

[RodISHI]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Didn't read the link did ya, scientific test have proven the pond has improved downstream water quality. Fuck off ignorant ass.

Ignoring the fact that the dam is his, but the water that flows through it is not his. In the western part of the United States water is an important commodity you do not divert it for your own needs, you do not impede the flow to serve your own purpose.

Bullshit people and bureaucracy divert water all over the western states. Generally it is who is willing to buy off or payoff some politician, a bureaucrat and lawyer to get it done. As a land owner in certain states have they have right to xxx amount of water for their own use and land, to be gotten from their land unless some corrupt prick decides to steal even that from them. In this case it appears that these people got permits from the state prior to starting.

 

[eagle1462010]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Didn't read the link did ya, scientific test have proven the pond has improved downstream water quality. Fuck off ignorant ass.

Ignoring the fact that the dam is his, but the water that flows through it is not his. In the western part of the United States water is an important commodity you do not divert it for your own needs, you do not impede the flow to serve your own purpose.

As you ignore that a permit was cleared by the local officials to build such a damn. Where in the process is vetting done by the EPA for all permits to build in this country????????????? They come in after the fact and say you are in violation of the EPA and say OR ELSE?????????????

To people that have thought they had followed the rules, as they had gotten the required permits to build already....................

Then to be FINED LARGE AMOUNTS of money WITHOUT A DAY IN COURT....................

In the article I posted that is exactly what happened............They just showed up one day and said stop what you are doing, return the land to it's original status...............or pay $37,500 a day until it is resolved............................

Where in the Constitution did we GIVE THE GOVERNMENT THAT KIND OF POWER.............

Where in they system did the EPA come down on those ISSUING THE PERMITS AND INSPECTIONS.........................The fault lies there as well NOW DOESN'T IT..................But they do nothing to those issuing permits and give out FINES THAT ARE LUDICROUS.....................Without giving those being fined A SINGLE DAY IN COURT...................

Anyone who would think this is OK, I question their sanity.

 

[OKTexas]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Didn't read the link did ya, scientific test have proven the pond has improved downstream water quality. Fuck off ignorant ass.

Ignoring the fact that the dam is his, but the water that flows through it is not his. In the western part of the United States water is an important commodity you do not divert it for your own needs, you do not impede the flow to serve your own purpose.

Bullshit, every farm pond, city and corps of engineers dam does exactly that, according to you no lake in the country is legal unless it's natural. Every drop of rain is not owned by the government.