2009 Budget deficit to be largest ever

[busara]

You can try to deflect all you want. The Government will pay BILLIONS if not TRILLIONS trying to be big brother for everyone on Medicine. Where do YOU think the money will come from?

im not saying it wont cost money. you are pulling the 'trillions' number out of your ass, though. is their a source for it that i'm not aware of?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

im not saying it wont cost money. you are pulling the 'trillions' number out of your ass, though. is their a source for it that i'm not aware of?

Are you insane? We know that Medicaid costs 400 Billion and it covers a small part of the population. Now add everyone else in and guess what? The price tag climbs and climbs.

Or are you now going to claim we will get even less then Medicaid?

 

[busara]

Are you insane? We know that Medicaid costs 400 Billion and it covers a small part of the population. Now add everyone else in and guess what? The price tag climbs and climbs.

Or are you now going to claim we will get even less then Medicaid?

but we arent adding 'everyone else' to it. how many times does that need to be said?

 

[Chris]

You can try to deflect all you want. The Government will pay BILLIONS if not TRILLIONS trying to be big brother for everyone on Medicine. Where do YOU think the money will come from?

A single payer system has inherent cost savings. Every other country in the Western world has a single payer system except for us, and they pay half per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why is our system so expensive? Because it is a bloated, patchwork, for profit system, that rewards charging the patients as much as possible. But people like you will prevent us from switching, and we will continue to pay twice as much per captia as the rest of the world for healthcare.

 

[editec]

A single payer system has inherent cost savings. Every other country in the Western world has a single payer system except for us, and they pay half per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why is our system so expensive? Because it is a bloated, patchwork, for profit system, that rewards charging the patients as much as possible. But people like you will prevent us from switching, and we will continue to pay twice as much per captia as the rest of the world for healthcare.

I agree with everything you said there.


STILL I think harnessing a socialist system of payment to a wagon of capitalists is going to be a mistake in the LONGER RUN.

CApitalism...whatever the market will bear, remember?

As long as well heeled capitalists are doing the billings, AND supporting our POLS, the cost of health care will go up faster (much faster) than inflation overall.

I really see no solution (longer term) in single payer UNLESS, we also limit the payments made to the HC establishment.

And limiting the payments is a form of socialism that I think might not work out so well for any of us in the longer run, either.

A lot of MEDICRE patients ALREADY cannot find doctors and hospitals willing to work with them because MEDICARE is attempting to limit payments.

Thorny problem, huh?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

but we arent adding 'everyone else' to it. how many times does that need to be said?

BULLSHIT. You think the Government does not have to pay if it becomes the Insurer? You are either daft in the head or ignorant. I do not care if we pay some amount to be insured, The Government pays the bills and it ALWAYS costs more then whats paid in when the Government is involved.

The only way Non Government insurance Companies make money is to deny claims, to restrict treatments and drugs and to deny procedures. So basically you are claiming the Government is going to create a system that will PREVENT people from getting treatment?

Whats the point if all we are doing is playing lip service to insurance? If the cost of the Insurance is not low enough for poor people to pay, then they STILL won't have health insurance, now will they? If it is that low it is going to cost the Government for the services unless again the Government is actually going to deny care.

Further civilian Insurance Groups have medical questions and tests and deny people the insurance if they are already ill, or charge so much they can not pay. Is this then what our "Universal" coverage will be? Just for those that can afford to pay high premiums? Kind of defeats the ENTIRE premise of the so called one payer system. Also if it is not mandatory it sure as hell won't fix the millions that currently CAN afford health care insurance but chose NOT to use it.

Remind me again what the plan is?

 

[Care4all]

He has no intention of doing so, He wants to create a HUGE new Government entitlement programs. Exactly WHERE do you think he is going to get that money?

Well, obama's plan includes the insurance companies, similar to the plan put in to place in massachusetts....

HOWEVER, if it were a true universal plan, the businesses that pay for a great deal of our insurance costs now would get the biggest perk in their lifetimes if we changed it to a universal plan without asking a penny from them....one of my main reason to be against it....

BUT, if a universal plan could be put in to place where our businesses contributed HALF of what they are spending on healthcare now, per employee, and we, the worker that pays a portion of our policies now...(Matt and i pay about $300 a month for OUR share, his company pays the rest and the most) also pays in additional taxes about half of what we are paying now for our cost of healthcare,

I believe it could be done with actual savings to the average tax payer, even with covering the 45 million without healthcare....

How?

1. by streamlining the paperwork, an estimated 25% of the total cost of healthcare today....the middle man, the insurance companies fall by the wayside.

2. the reduction in emergency room costs for the indigent, will be huge savings that we, the ones with healthcare insurance pay for now, either through our taxes, or thru the higher cost of healthcare policies that help pay for these indigent.

3. by having everyone covered with healthcare coverage, adds people to the system which reduces overall costs.....thru the prorating of services per person.

4. By allowing bulk discount negotiations on our drug purchases....

5. Programs to cover the indigent with health coverage, like the health care program covering children's healthcare, SCHIP, and MEDICAID would be eliminated and those monies would go towards the universal healthcare plan...even Veteran's healthcare would be covered by a universal plan so the monie from there would also go in to this ONE universal healthcare fund...even Military health care coverage would fall under the universal plan so no TRICARE or CHAMPUS policies and programs to pay for...that money would go to the universal plan....

I am not saying I am for a universal healthcare plan, what i am saying is that it can be done, if serious and relentless ingenuity and thought, are put to developing it....

I don't think we stand a prayer of that happening though...

Care

 

[Chris]

BULLSHIT. You think the Government does not have to pay if it becomes the Insurer? You are either daft in the head or ignorant. I do not care if we pay some amount to be insured, The Government pays the bills and it ALWAYS costs more then whats paid in when the Government is involved.

The only way Non Government insurance Companies make money is to deny claims, to restrict treatments and drugs and to deny procedures. So basically you are claiming the Government is going to create a system that will PREVENT people from getting treatment?

Whats the point if all we are doing is playing lip service to insurance? If the cost of the Insurance is not low enough for poor people to pay, then they STILL won't have health insurance, now will they? If it is that low it is going to cost the Government for the services unless again the Government is actually going to deny care.

Further civilian Insurance Groups have medical questions and tests and deny people the insurance if they are already ill, or charge so much they can not pay. Is this then what our "Universal" coverage will be? Just for those that can afford to pay high premiums? Kind of defeats the ENTIRE premise of the so called one payer system. Also if it is not mandatory it sure as hell won't fix the millions that currently CAN afford health care insurance but chose NOT to use it.

Remind me again what the plan is?

Your post is simple wrong. The rest of the Western world pays half per capita what we pay for healthcare, so a single payer system is cheaper.

 

[sealybobo]

BULLSHIT. You think the Government does not have to pay if it becomes the Insurer? You are either daft in the head or ignorant. I do not care if we pay some amount to be insured, The Government pays the bills and it ALWAYS costs more then whats paid in when the Government is involved.

The only way Non Government insurance Companies make money is to deny claims, to restrict treatments and drugs and to deny procedures. So basically you are claiming the Government is going to create a system that will PREVENT people from getting treatment?

Whats the point if all we are doing is playing lip service to insurance? If the cost of the Insurance is not low enough for poor people to pay, then they STILL won't have health insurance, now will they? If it is that low it is going to cost the Government for the services unless again the Government is actually going to deny care.

Further civilian Insurance Groups have medical questions and tests and deny people the insurance if they are already ill, or charge so much they can not pay. Is this then what our "Universal" coverage will be? Just for those that can afford to pay high premiums? Kind of defeats the ENTIRE premise of the so called one payer system. Also if it is not mandatory it sure as hell won't fix the millions that currently CAN afford health care insurance but chose NOT to use it.

Remind me again what the plan is?

Boyaka!!!

 

[Chris]

Well, obama's plan includes the insurance companies, similar to the plan put in to place in massachusetts....

HOWEVER, if it were a true universal plan, the businesses that pay for a great deal of our insurance costs now would get the biggest perk in their lifetimes if we changed it to a universal plan without asking a penny from them....one of my main reason to be against it....

BUT, if a universal plan could be put in to place where our businesses contributed HALF of what they are spending on healthcare now, per employee, and we, the worker that pays a portion of our policies now...(Matt and i pay about $300 a month for OUR share, his company pays the rest and the most) also pays in additional taxes about half of what we are paying now for our cost of healthcare,

I believe it could be done with actual savings to the average tax payer, even with covering the 45 million without healthcare....

How?

1. by streamlining the paperwork, an estimated 25% of the total cost of healthcare today....the middle man, the insurance companies fall by the wayside.

2. the reduction in emergency room costs for the indigent, will be huge savings that we, the ones with healthcare insurance pay for now, either through our taxes, or thru the higher cost of healthcare policies that help pay for these indigent.

3. by having everyone covered with healthcare coverage, adds people to the system which reduces overall costs.....thru the prorating of services per person.

4. By allowing bulk discount negotiations on our drug purchases....

5. Programs to cover the indigent with health coverage, like the health care program covering children's healthcare, SCHIP, and MEDICAID would be eliminated and those monies would go towards the universal healthcare plan...even Veteran's healthcare would be covered by a universal plan so the monie from there would also go in to this ONE universal healthcare fund...even Military health care coverage would fall under the universal plan so no TRICARE or CHAMPUS policies and programs to pay for...that money would go to the universal plan....

I am not saying I am for a universal healthcare plan, what i am saying is that it can be done, if serious and relentless ingenuity and thought, are put to developing it....

I don't think we stand a prayer of that happening though...

Care

Obama's plan is a bad idea because it isn't a single payer system. A single payer system is much better than a patchwork system like they have in Mass.

 

[editec]

Your post is simple wrong. The rest of the Western world pays half per capita what we pay for healthcare, so a single payer system is cheaper.

The numbers are there for all who are willing to accept reality based policies.

Sadly here many are foolish idealogues who don't care about reality-based arguments.

Waste of time trying to convince them with the facts.

Really, responding to their knownothing posts is just a waste of your time, Kirk.

 

[busara]

BULLSHIT. You think the Government does not have to pay if it becomes the Insurer? You are either daft in the head or ignorant. I do not care if we pay some amount to be insured, The Government pays the bills and it ALWAYS costs more then whats paid in when the Government is involved.

The only way Non Government insurance Companies make money is to deny claims, to restrict treatments and drugs and to deny procedures. So basically you are claiming the Government is going to create a system that will PREVENT people from getting treatment?

Whats the point if all we are doing is playing lip service to insurance? If the cost of the Insurance is not low enough for poor people to pay, then they STILL won't have health insurance, now will they? If it is that low it is going to cost the Government for the services unless again the Government is actually going to deny care.

Further civilian Insurance Groups have medical questions and tests and deny people the insurance if they are already ill, or charge so much they can not pay. Is this then what our "Universal" coverage will be? Just for those that can afford to pay high premiums? Kind of defeats the ENTIRE premise of the so called one payer system. Also if it is not mandatory it sure as hell won't fix the millions that currently CAN afford health care insurance but chose NOT to use it.

Remind me again what the plan is?

you said the govt would pay for everyone, like theyll get rid of all insurance programs other than their own and put everyone on medicare. i confront that stupid opinion, and you come back with a response which doesnt address the issue i responded to. and i said it would cost money. you throw whatever unfounded shock numbers you can in the air to make it look unreasonable. you dont understand that obama's plan is to find cost savings and create a govt sponsered insurance program people can get into. and this latest argument is rubbish. do children in PA suddenly find themselves without treatment from CHIP?

but im done with this. i wont argue with people who refuse to look at information that goes against what they believe.

 

[busara]

The numbers are there for all who are willing to accept reality based policies.

Sadly here many are foolish idealogues who don't care about reality-based arguments.

Waste of time trying to convince them with the facts.

Really, responding to their knownothing posts is just a waste of your time, Kirk.

agreed. im done arguing with them. their view is so biased they cant even look at honest to god real data. rediculous

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you said the govt would pay for everyone, like theyll get rid of all insurance programs other than their own and put everyone on medicare. i confront that stupid opinion, and you come back with a response which doesnt address the issue i responded to. and i said it would cost money. you throw whatever unfounded shock numbers you can in the air to make it look unreasonable. you dont understand that obama's plan is to find cost savings and create a govt sponsered insurance program people can get into. and this latest argument is rubbish. do children in PA suddenly find themselves without treatment from CHIP?

but im done with this. i wont argue with people who refuse to look at information that goes against what they believe.

What you mean is you have been shown the error of your opinions and can not respond, but hey thanks for playing.

 

[busara]

What you mean is you have been shown the error of your opinions and can not respond, but hey thanks for playing.

no, it means you and jreeves ignore every bit of evidence which shows youre wrong, but simply cover your ears and sing 'la la la, its too hard, too expensive, la la la'

but tell yourself whatever makes you feel happy

 

[Chris]

What you mean is you have been shown the error of your opinions and can not respond, but hey thanks for playing.

Why is it that every other Western nation pays half per capita what we pay for healthcare and covers everyone?

 

[DiamondDave]

no, it means you and jreeves ignore every bit of evidence which shows youre wrong, but simply cover your ears and sing 'la la la, its too hard, too expensive, la la la'

but tell yourself whatever makes you feel happy

1) You have proven no such thing with any evidence
2) You are the only one responsible for you. Because you want or need something does not mean you are entitled to it at the expense of another

 

[Care4all]

1) You have proven no such thing with any evidence
2) You are the only one responsible for you. Because you want or need something does not mean you are entitled to it at the expense of another

what makes you think she wouldn't be paying for herself through her own taxes paid?

 

[Chris]

1) You have proven no such thing with any evidence
2) You are the only one responsible for you. Because you want or need something does not mean you are entitled to it at the expense of another

Why is it that every other Western nation in the world pays half per captia what we pay for healthcare and covers everyone?

 

[editec]

1) You have proven no such thing with any evidence
2) You are the only one responsible for you. Because you want or need something does not mean you are entitled to it at the expense of another

Tell that to Halliburton, would you?