2009 Budget deficit to be largest ever

[DiamondDave]

Why is it that every other Western nation pays half per capita what we pay for healthcare and covers everyone?

Heart transplants with pocket knives, pig hearts, and a waiting line 3 years long (where you'll be dead anyway), kinda reduces costs

 

[Care4all]

Why is it that every other Western nation pays half per capita what we pay for healthcare and covers everyone?

Not only does it cover everyone, but child birthrates are HIGHER in their country than ours...less newborn deaths, and their seniors live longer on average than American citizens?

Their healthcare can't be as bad as these others are professing?

 

[Chris]

Heart transplants with pocket knives, pig hearts, and a waiting line 3 years long (where you'll be dead anyway), kinda reduces costs

Ok, that's not true. What other reasons?


The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

 

[Care4all]

Heart transplants with pocket knives, pig hearts, and a waiting line 3 years long (where you'll be dead anyway), kinda reduces costs

no heart transplant surgery AT ALL reduces life expectancy too....

are you saying these people get put on a different waiting list for a heart transplant than people that have their own private insurance? or that there are not enough heart surgeons because the pay isn't high enough to attract them?

btw, for other surgeries it is ONLY ELECTIVE SURGERIES that go on a "waiting list" I read, no?

care

 

[busara]

1) You have proven no such thing with any evidence
2) You are the only one responsible for you. Because you want or need something does not mean you are entitled to it at the expense of another

I have insurance. nice try though. the evidence shows that it will be cheaper for everyone. not sure why you feel that's such a bad thing, but i'm not surprised.

 

[DiamondDave]

Ok, that's not true. What other reasons?


The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

Oh... let us not mention things such as personal choices in diet, lifestyle, risk taking, etc... on expenses, let us not forget that the most advanced procedures, equipment, training, advancements, etc costs more...

And let us not forget also that reporting as accurate as we have in the states on things such as infant mortality is not usually the standard in many other countries

Your assumption that our healthcare is inferior is not as cut and dry as some little ranking

 

[DiamondDave]

I have insurance. nice try though. the evidence shows that it will be cheaper for everyone. not sure why you feel that's such a bad thing, but i'm not surprised.

No.. your selective evidence shows that as long as you keep your far-left blinders on and ignore reality

And let us not forget again... because someone wants or need something does not mean they are entitled to it as the expense of others

 

[busara]

No.. your selective evidence shows that as long as you keep your far-left blinders on and ignore reality

And let us not forget again... because someone wants or need something does not mean they are entitled to it as the expense of others

oh, i disagree with diamond, i must be far left. idiot. just look at my opinions on many issues here and you'll see that i am not even close to it.

 

[Care4all]

No.. your selective evidence shows that as long as you keep your far-left blinders on and ignore reality

And let us not forget again... because someone wants or need something does not mean they are entitled to it as the expense of others

tell that to halliburton, tell that to the oil and gas companies, tell that to black water, tell that to the pharma industry.....tell that to bear sterns, tell that to the savings and loans we bailed out in the 80's, tell that to fannie mae and freddie mac.....

my money in taxes goes towards ALL KINDS OF THINGS involved with the military industrial complex and other domestic things that i don't agree with, what so ever!

care

 

[Chris]

Oh... let us not mention things such as personal choices in diet, lifestyle, risk taking, etc... on expenses, let us not forget that the most advanced procedures, equipment, training, advancements, etc costs more...

And let us not forget also that reporting as accurate as we have in the states on things such as infant mortality is not usually the standard in many other countries

Your assumption that our healthcare is inferior is not as cut and dry as some little ranking

We have 47 million people without healthcare coverage, so our system is by definition inferior. Plus the reason our system is so expensive is that a for profit system has no incentive to save money and every incentive to perform unnecessary surgery and other expensive procedures that may actually hurt a patient's health. Also adding to the expense is that people put off going to the doctor because it is so expensive, and end up in the emergency room which is much more expensive than managed care.

All the facts show that our system is too expensive and does not provide for everyone. The other Western countries do it better, and we could learn from them.

 

[DiamondDave]

tell that to halliburton, tell that to the oil and gas companies, tell that to black water, tell that to the pharma industry.....tell that to bear sterns, tell that to the savings and loans we bailed out in the 80's, tell that to fannie mae and freddie mac.....

my money in taxes goes towards ALL KINDS OF THINGS involved with the military industrial complex and other domestic things that i don't agree with, what so ever!

care

Do I support corporate bailouts? Nope... I fully believe them to be wrong too... but nice try

As for companies receiving contracts... funny, providing services to EARN what they get is a lot different than handouts for nothing with the leftist entitlement system...

You, nor anyone else, is entitled to something just because you want it... the problem is with leftists like yourself is this entitlement attitude... try a little something called personal responsibility... earning... effort... ambition... achievement....

 

[DiamondDave]

We have 47 million people without healthcare coverage, so our system is by definition inferior. Plus the reason our system is so expensive is that a for profit system has no incentive to save money and every incentive to perform unnecessary surgery and other expensive procedures that may actually hurt a patient's health. Also adding to the expense is that people put off going to the doctor because it is so expensive, and end up in the emergency room which is much more expensive than managed care.

All the facts show that our system is too expensive and does not provide for everyone. The other Western countries do it better, and we could learn from them.

NO... the people not taking their own personal responsibility are inferior... we have healthcare, systems, insurance, and the most advanced medical doctors procedures and facilities in the world....

You want something, or anyone else wants something... EARN it dammit....

 

[busara]

NO... the people not taking their own personal responsibility are inferior... we have healthcare, systems, insurance, and the most advanced medical doctors procedures and facilities in the world....

You want something, or anyone else wants something... EARN it dammit....

would you be against the system becoming more efficient and therefore cheaper for you?

 

[Care4all]

NO... the people not taking their own personal responsibility are inferior... we have healthcare, systems, insurance, and the most advanced medical doctors procedures and facilities in the world....

You want something, or anyone else wants something... EARN it dammit....

it costs about $10k for an individual insurance family policy anually, up here in the north east...are you saying that someone who earns 20k-40k gross has the money to pay for the 10k policy on his own, and still make ends meet?

or are you saying that businesses should be forced to pay their employees enough money in pay so that the employee on their own, can afford to pay for their own healthcare.....

Could you afford an individual private healthcare insurance policy without your company's group insurance plan's discounts and without your employer paying at least half of the costs of it?

 

[DiamondDave]

would you be against the system becoming more efficient and therefore cheaper for you?

When controlled by the government... yes I would be against it... but the government would not be making this more efficient, cheaper, and with the highest quality...

My health, my children's health, well being etc is my PERSONAL responsibility.... it is not yours, or Joe Blow's in Idaho, or the government's....

I want options, choices, freedoms, etc... not for your little control systems.. not entitlement for others at the expense of those who are productive, earn, and do what they are supposed to do... I am for inherent equality, and not Robin Hood redistribution

You want socialism... I can name many countries that would love to add you to their controlled masses

 

[RetiredGySgt]

would you be against the system becoming more efficient and therefore cheaper for you?

Provide us a list of things that got cheaper and were more efficient after the Government took over.

 

[sealybobo]

Provide us a list of things that got cheaper and were more efficient after the Government took over.

Provide us a list of things that got cheaper when they were privatized. The military contractors? The Federal Reserve?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Provide us a list of things that got cheaper when they were privatized. The military contractors? The Federal Reserve?

LOL, I won't hold my breath since I see you are already deflecting.

 

[DiamondDave]

it costs about $10k for an individual insurance family policy anually, up here in the north east...are you saying that someone who earns 20k-40k gross has the money to pay for the 10k policy on his own, and still make ends meet?

or are you saying that businesses should be forced to pay their employees enough money in pay so that the employee on their own, can afford to pay for their own healthcare.....

Could you afford an individual private healthcare insurance policy without your company's group insurance plan's discounts and without your employer paying at least half of the costs of it?

Hmmm... I remember doing what I had to do to cover myself and my family... coming up from nothing, I used my personal character and took responsibility of.... working 2 jobs when I had to... choosing the Army option because of the benefits and training.. .learning and advancing in my career... making myself a wanted commodity to gain what I wanted and needed for my family

I am not saying force anyone to do anything... but to put the responsibility BACK on to those who are truly responsible... you are the only one responsible for you....

And yes... I could afford an individual policy.... and I could also afford to set aside a medical expense account for myself to use when I need it, and earn interest when I don't... I can do many things... unlike what libs like to think, I and most every citizen in this country is CAPABLE... not dependent

 

[busara]

When controlled by the government... yes I would be against it... but the government would not be making this more efficient, cheaper, and with the highest quality...

My health, my children's health, well being etc is my PERSONAL responsibility.... it is not yours, or Joe Blow's in Idaho, or the government's....

I want options, choices, freedoms, etc... not for your little control systems.. not entitlement for others at the expense of those who are productive, earn, and do what they are supposed to do... I am for inherent equality, and not Robin Hood redistribution

You want socialism... I can name many countries that would love to add you to their controlled masses

when have i ever advocated socialism? all i want is for everyone to have a chance to access affordable healthcare. that is what obama wants to offer, and it will benefit me through cheaper costs as well. youre so angry about this issue. did a hospital do bad things to you in the past?