400 years of Slavery?

[MikeK]

And yes the first slaves in America were white from Britain and Ireland. Historical fact.

That's true. But I understand the conditions of servitude were different, i.e. the Black Africans were sold into chattel slavery, meaning ownership under the same terms as inanimate property, while the Irish were transferred by the British into bonded servitude, meaning they were able to earn their freedom after a number of years in service.

 

[tinydancer]

And yes the first slaves in America were white from Britain and Ireland. Historical fact.

That's true. But I understand the conditions of servitude were different, i.e. the Black Africans were sold into chattel slavery, meaning ownership under the same terms as inanimate property, while the Irish were transferred by the British into bonded servitude, meaning they were able to earn their freedom after a number of years in service.

An FYI. The first slaves were white children from the streets of Britain. Had nothing to do with servitude when you are 8 years old. As far as the Irish slave trade went, that was Cromwell decimating the population of Ireland. Again. Not servitude. They were captured and sent to the new world.

Of course our media just can't acknowledge the truth of this so there are hundreds of so called "debunking" articles but the truth of the matter is that the "poorest of the poor" in Britain and the"Irish captives" were not indentured servants.

That's like calling the convicts banished to Australia willing immigrants.

White Cargo is excellent.

White Cargo is the forgotten story of the thousands of Britons who lived and died in bondage in Britain’s American colonies.

In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, more than 300,000 white people were shipped to America as slaves. Urchins were swept up from London’s streets to labor in the tobacco fields, where life expectancy was no more than two years. Brothels were raided to provide “breeders” for Virginia. Hopeful migrants were duped into signing as indentured servants, unaware they would become personal property who could be bought, sold, and even gambled away. Transported convicts were paraded for sale like livestock.

Drawing on letters crying for help, diaries, and court and government archives, Don Jordan and Michael Walsh demonstrate that the brutalities usually associated with black slavery alone were perpetrated on whites throughout British rule. The trade ended with American independence, but the British still tried to sell convicts in their former colonies, which prompted one of the most audacious plots in Anglo-American history.

This is a saga of exploration and cruelty spanning 170 years that has been submerged under the overwhelming memory of black slavery. White Cargo brings the brutal, uncomfortable story to the surface.

White Cargo

And another excellent read:


White Slavery: The Irish Slaves that Time Forgot


White Slavery: The Irish Slaves that Time Forgot - by John Martin

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31436.htm

"...The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white..."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Thread has turned into a whiny bitch fest about white people problems.

And you're upset because you were hoping for a whiny bitch fest about leftist imaginary problems?

 

[Cecilie1200]

wrong--it is relevant to the posts made about cops/etc

Reality is unrelated to perception. Just read the posts on every other USMB thread.

Kind of the point: reality and perception should NOT be unrelated, and we're not obligated to treat perceptions AS reality, or alter reality to soothe perceptions.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Thread has turned into a whiny bitch fest about white people problems.

Well, the Gay Guy with the Bruce Jenner look-a-like icon seems to be having the Bitch-Fits..

While, he maybe White, he is anti-Christian, / anti-White, no?

Looked anti-establishment religion to me. Can't blame him.

In the meantime you guys should just get on with how unfair you are treated as white men in this country.

it's called pointing out bullshit--not whining--sorry
stop the childish/amateurish idiocy

No, it's whining. Some fucker is complaining they got a ticket for being white rather than their shitty driving.

As opposed to some fucker complaining he got a ticket for being black, rather than for his shitty driving?

Oh, wait, THAT'S the truth, and requires us all to be outraged and have a riot, because racism against black people is ALWAYS true.

Not that THAT isn't racism in itself.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jesse Jackson said he always felt uncomfortable if a "young Black man was walking behind him".
Where did he get that feeling from?

you'll have to ask him but I'm not sure why it matters, it is his perception, it is irrelevant where it came from.

No, it really is NOT irrelevant.

And if you're really "not sure why it matters", you're not very bright.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Reality is unrelated to perception. Just read the posts on every other USMB thread.

you just don't like truth/facts/stats

I do when they're relevant to the topic. I know plenty of facts about astronomy but I don't see how they're appropriate here.

Astronomy is not really analogous to your dismissal of examples of racism you don't want to acknowledge.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Thread has turned into a whiny bitch fest about white people problems.

I dunno about that but it went off the rails right off the bat. Both sides are focused on trolling the other rather than any real discussion.

How are you supposed to have a genuine discussion about race with people who think they are better than other people based on their race. Especially the little twerps on this board who stand on the shoulders of their ancestors and think they've accomplished anything.

Easy,

Ignore the blatant racists and trolls and converse with the rest. You empower the worst in society by allowing them a platform to spout their bullshit.

Take Tank for instance. I put him on ignore almost immediately after joining. If everyone did the same and he got zero interaction how long do you think he would continue to stay here talking only to himself?
People often say ignore is for pussies but I beg to differ. Would you hang out with someone like Tank in the real world? Then why do it on here and give his voice legitimacy?

 

[IM2]

It is a reference to ideological tunnel vision & generations of being bound by a thought process that prohibits thinking outside the box.



This is the origins of that comment and while the number could be considered off if you discount the history of Africa the point remains on target.

Rather than dig into the substance of the situation the left would rather distract you with the thoughts of a simpleton.

While this could be considered a "race" thread I hope that the moderators see that it is a hot topic in political circles and deserves to be discussed and thought out rather than relegated to the race forum which very few visit.

What exactly is thinking outside of the box? Thinking the way whites want us to think? Because vey person of color who s clamed to be thinking outside if this "box" are people of color who validate the beliefs of racist conservative whites.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

most whites did not own slaves

And many Whites strongly opposed the practice. But we never hear the race pimps calling attention to that critically important issue. In fact they carefully avoid any mention of it.

I didn't realize I'm supposed to believe that all whites are racist assholes like the majority of the right wing clowns on this board.

YOU are the racist by calling them racist

That's weak.

please prove the majority of RWs are racists on USMB--I'll be waiting

If I were represented by someone like Shoot Speeders, Snouter or Steve McGarrett and said nothing about their idiotic simple minded racist views then my only excuse is that I agree with them. Until you kick them out of your little clique you agree with them.

I was with you till the last sentence. Unless you are willing to apply guilt by association to Obama for Rev Wright as well.

Ignore works wonders but you people still claim I agree with the tards because I dont continually condemn them when they say something asinine. Thing is I don't ever see their posts to begin with.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It is a reference to ideological tunnel vision & generations of being bound by a thought process that prohibits thinking outside the box.



This is the origins of that comment and while the number could be considered off if you discount the history of Africa the point remains on target.

Rather than dig into the substance of the situation the left would rather distract you with the thoughts of a simpleton.

While this could be considered a "race" thread I hope that the moderators see that it is a hot topic in political circles and deserves to be discussed and thought out rather than relegated to the race forum which very few visit.

What exactly is thinking outside of the box? Thinking the way whites want us to think? Because vey person of color who s clamed to be thinking outside if this "box" are people of color who validate the beliefs of racist conservative whites.

Thinking outside the box means being open minded to ideas that do not conform to your line of thinking.
Your post shows you to be close minded and incapable of such because rather than engage me in a discussion to figure out what I actually think you automatically assigned me a racist motive.

YOU are part of the problem.

 

[IM2]

Let's stop the fake news.

Debunking a Myth: The Irish Were Not Slaves, Too

It has shown up on Irish trivia Facebook pages, in Scientific American magazine, and on white nationalist message boards: the little-known story of the Irish slaves who built America, who are sometimes said to have outnumbered and been treated worse than slaves from Africa.

But it’s not true.

Historians say the idea of Irish slaves is based on a misreading of history and that the distortion is often politically motivated. Far-right memes have taken off online and are used as racist barbs against African-Americans. “The Irish were slaves, too,” the memes often say. “We got over it, so why can’t you?”

A small group of Irish and American scholars has spent years pushing back on the false history. In 2016, 82 Irish scholars and writers signed an open letter denouncing the Irish slave myth and asking publications to stop mentioning it. Some complied, removing or revising articles that referenced the false claims, but the letter’s impact was limited.

Fact vs. Fiction
The Irish slave narrative is based on the misinterpretation of the history of indentured servitude, which is how many poor Europeans migrated to North America and the Caribbean in the early colonial period, historians said.

Without a doubt, life was bad for indentured servants. They were often treated brutally. Not all of them entered servitude willingly. Some were political prisoners. Some were children.

“I’m not saying it was pleasant or anything — it was the opposite — but it was a completely different category from slavery,” said Liam Hogan, a research librarian in Ireland who has spearheaded the debunking effort. “It was a transitory state.”

The legal differences between indentured servitude and chattel slavery were profound, according to Matthew Reilly, an archaeologist who studies Barbados. Unlike slaves, servants were considered legally human. Their servitude was based on a contract that limited their service to a finite period of time, usually about seven years, in exchange for passage to the colonies. They did not pass their unfree status on to descendants.

Contemporary accounts in Ireland sometimes referred to these people as slaves, Mr. Hogan said. That was true in the sense that any form of coerced labor can be described as slavery, from Ancient Rome to modern-day human trafficking. But in colonial America and the Caribbean, the word “slavery” had a specific legal meaning. Europeans, by definition, were not included in it.

“An indenture implies two people have entered into a contract with each other but slavery is not a contract,” said Leslie Harris, a professor of African-American history at Northwestern University. “It is often about being a prisoner of war or being bought or sold bodily as part of a trade. That is a critical distinction.”
.
Debunking a Myth: The Irish Were Not Slaves, Too

 

[HappyJoy]

Thread has turned into a whiny bitch fest about white people problems.

I dunno about that but it went off the rails right off the bat. Both sides are focused on trolling the other rather than any real discussion.

How are you supposed to have a genuine discussion about race with people who think they are better than other people based on their race. Especially the little twerps on this board who stand on the shoulders of their ancestors and think they've accomplished anything.

Easy,

Ignore the blatant racists and trolls and converse with the rest. You empower the worst in society by allowing them a platform to spout their bullshit.

Take Tank for instance. I put him on ignore almost immediately after joining. If everyone did the same and he got zero interaction how long do you think he would continue to stay here talking only to himself?
People often say ignore is for pussies but I beg to differ. Would you hang out with someone like Tank in the real world? Then why do it on here and give his voice legitimacy?

So...they already have a platform, it's called USMB.

If you put them on ignore they still post and bury every other meaningful discussion.

Ignore isn't for pussies, to announce to the person you're going to put them on ignore is for pussies. To be clear, I'm not talking about you ignoring Tank and posting about it after the fact.

 

[MikeK]

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white..."

Very educational. I stand corrected.

Thank you.

 

[candycorn]

While this could be considered a "race" thread I hope that the moderators see that it is a hot topic in political circles and deserves to be discussed and thought out rather than relegated to the race forum which very few visit.

If a conservative starts it…it will be a race thread eventually. You guys are obsessed with race.

Why?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Thread has turned into a whiny bitch fest about white people problems.

I dunno about that but it went off the rails right off the bat. Both sides are focused on trolling the other rather than any real discussion.

How are you supposed to have a genuine discussion about race with people who think they are better than other people based on their race. Especially the little twerps on this board who stand on the shoulders of their ancestors and think they've accomplished anything.

Easy,

Ignore the blatant racists and trolls and converse with the rest. You empower the worst in society by allowing them a platform to spout their bullshit.

Take Tank for instance. I put him on ignore almost immediately after joining. If everyone did the same and he got zero interaction how long do you think he would continue to stay here talking only to himself?
People often say ignore is for pussies but I beg to differ. Would you hang out with someone like Tank in the real world? Then why do it on here and give his voice legitimacy?

So...they already have a platform, it's called USMB.

If you put them on ignore they still post and bury every other meaningful discussion.

Ignore isn't for pussies, to announce to the person you're going to put them on ignore is for pussies.

They only have the platform because you give it to them. And announcing the ignore is a good thing so they and others know it is done and you don't get bombarded with messages about being scared to respond to posts or questions from said person.

 

[HappyJoy]

most whites did not own slaves

And many Whites strongly opposed the practice. But we never hear the race pimps calling attention to that critically important issue. In fact they carefully avoid any mention of it.

I didn't realize I'm supposed to believe that all whites are racist assholes like the majority of the right wing clowns on this board.

YOU are the racist by calling them racist

That's weak.

please prove the majority of RWs are racists on USMB--I'll be waiting

If I were represented by someone like Shoot Speeders, Snouter or Steve McGarrett and said nothing about their idiotic simple minded racist views then my only excuse is that I agree with them. Until you kick them out of your little clique you agree with them.

I was with you till the last sentence. Unless you are willing to apply guilt by association to Obama for Rev Wright as well.

Ignore works wonders but you people still claim I agree with the tards because I dont continually condemn them when they say something asinine. Thing is I don't ever see their posts to begin with.

Remind me again, what racist statement did Wright make?

 

[harmonica]

most of the blacks shot by cops are justified/self defense shootings

You're absolutely right about most -- but not all. There are a few shootings which range in nature from avoidable to deliberate. The problem is these extremely few "bad shoots" provide the race pimps with fodder for their anti-cop, anti-White bullshit cannons, from which all cops endure the negative feedback.

I am not aware of one Black being shot by cops who was not called a "victim" by the Al Sharpton following. Not one.

I agree ...and there are racist cops...some that would like to shoot blacks
...but most shootings are justified --some are very questionable.....and there will always be problems/errors/misjudgments/etc because they are human

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, the Gay Guy with the Bruce Jenner look-a-like icon seems to be having the Bitch-Fits..

While, he maybe White, he is anti-Christian, / anti-White, no?

Looked anti-establishment religion to me. Can't blame him.

In the meantime you guys should just get on with how unfair you are treated as white men in this country.

As an Agnostic, I see both hard-core Theists, and Atheists as pretty damned delusional.

But, I don't get how you're getting this conclusion?

Thus far there's been mostly anti-Christian, and anti-Cop rhetoric, rather than some kind of "Imagined" "White complaints?

What are you smoking, exactly?

Um, no. Someone tried to blame everyone else for slavery but Christianity. It's been pointed out absolutely asinine that is. Glad I could help.

Uh, there's been massive slave trades by Christians (Atlantic Slave Trade), but also Muslims (Arab Slave Trade), as well as Atheists (Soviet Gulag's)

Oh, how dare people point that out.

I commented once to a smart friend, "I can't wrap my head around who the first person was to say "Oh, look--a stranger. I think I'll keep him." My friend laughed and said "As soon as we figured out we could get someone else to do our work for us, slavery was on."
He was right of course. It's no doubt been going on since we were still grunting and pointing instead of carving our stories on stone.

Of course it has. Slaves were originally acquired by defeating your enemies in battle, and taking whoever was still alive prisoner and putting them to work. In the case of the United States, we just purchased the vanquished from the victors, basically.

 

[HappyJoy]

Thread has turned into a whiny bitch fest about white people problems.

I dunno about that but it went off the rails right off the bat. Both sides are focused on trolling the other rather than any real discussion.

How are you supposed to have a genuine discussion about race with people who think they are better than other people based on their race. Especially the little twerps on this board who stand on the shoulders of their ancestors and think they've accomplished anything.

Easy,

Ignore the blatant racists and trolls and converse with the rest. You empower the worst in society by allowing them a platform to spout their bullshit.

Take Tank for instance. I put him on ignore almost immediately after joining. If everyone did the same and he got zero interaction how long do you think he would continue to stay here talking only to himself?
People often say ignore is for pussies but I beg to differ. Would you hang out with someone like Tank in the real world? Then why do it on here and give his voice legitimacy?

So...they already have a platform, it's called USMB.

If you put them on ignore they still post and bury every other meaningful discussion.

Ignore isn't for pussies, to announce to the person you're going to put them on ignore is for pussies.

They only have the platform because you give it to them. And announcing the ignore is a good thing so they and others know it is done and you don't get bombarded with messages about being scared to respond to posts or questions from said person.

Right buddy, they have a platform because people give it to them. Whether it's space on this board or a piece of the GOP.