7 day creation story doesnt seem possible

[Picaro]

How do you create earth after day and night? Day and night depends on rotation of the sphere. At that point, the Earth was still unformed.
How were plants created before the sun? Plants require the sun
How do you have lamps (sun and moon) giving their own light? The moon reflects light from the sun

Any explanations other than How much better and more satisfying it is to accept Scripture as it stands. It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed like found on ICR.com?

You think God operates on a 24-hour basis? Also, the 24 hour clock is here on Earth. Other planets such as Jupiter have 10 hour days. So the term "day" is relative to location. Plus, a "day" in the Bible could have represented an eon in real time.

Or it's allegorical and symbolic of some greater pattern. The general structure here:

Literary structure (chiasm, chiasmus) of each pericopes of Book of Genesis

Specific to Gen 1: This pdf has several interesting points worth reading, for those new to theological studies.

https://www.inthebeginning.org/chiasmus/xfiles/xgen1_1-2_3.pdf

The “Sevens” of Genesis 1:1—2:3
The correspondence of the first paragraph, Genesis 1:2 with 2:1-3, is
underscored by the number of Hebrew words in both being multiples of seven. Genesis
1:1 consists of seven (7x1) Hebrew words, Genesis 1:2 consists of fourteen (7x2) words,
and Genesis 2:1-3 thirty-five (7x5) words. In addition, “God” is mentioned thirty-five
(7x5) times, “earth” occurs twenty-one (7x3) times, and “heaven/firmament” also twenty-
one (7x3) times.
The number “seven” also dominates Genesis 1:1—2:3 in a startling way, not only
in the number of words in a particular section, but also in the number of times a specific
word or phrase recurs, which in all comprises the sevenfold patterning of this section:
♦
Seven paragraphs
: The arrangement of Genesis 1:1—2:3 consists of an
introduction and seven paragraphs. The introduction identifies the Creator and
creation (Gen. 1:1-2); six paragraphs corresponds to the six creation days (1:3-
21). The seventh paragraph marks the climactic seventh day, the day of consecration (2:1-3).

There are other chiastic structures in other 'books' that link back to Genesis;

As for the OP, 'day and night' means the creation of 'light and darkness', among many other allusions.

 

[TNHarley]

How do you create earth after day and night? Day and night depends on rotation of the sphere. At that point, the Earth was still unformed.
How were plants created before the sun? Plants require the sun
How do you have lamps (sun and moon) giving their own light? The moon reflects light from the sun

Any explanations other than How much better and more satisfying it is to accept Scripture as it stands. It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed like found on ICR.com?

You think God operates on a 24-hour basis? Also, the 24 hour clock is here on Earth. Other planets such as Jupiter have 10 hour days. So the term "day" is relative to location. Plus, a "day" in the Bible could have represented an eon in real time.

I dont get how everyone thinks i put any emphasis on time. I dont even see how that can come up, honestly. My problem was the timeline of events.
We had discussed how "day" is nothing more than a crappy european translation when the original hebrew word meant "beginning and end" or something to that effect.

 

[Picaro]

How do you create earth after day and night? Day and night depends on rotation of the sphere. At that point, the Earth was still unformed.
How were plants created before the sun? Plants require the sun
How do you have lamps (sun and moon) giving their own light? The moon reflects light from the sun

Any explanations other than How much better and more satisfying it is to accept Scripture as it stands. It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed like found on ICR.com?

You think God operates on a 24-hour basis? Also, the 24 hour clock is here on Earth. Other planets such as Jupiter have 10 hour days. So the term "day" is relative to location. Plus, a "day" in the Bible could have represented an eon in real time.

I dont get how everyone thinks i put any emphasis on time. I dont even see how that can come up, honestly. My problem was the timeline of events.
We had discussed how "day" is nothing more than a crappy european translation when the original hebrew word meant "beginning and end" or something to that effect.

I assumed you were asking about the sequence of events, yes, and posted some links to opinions about that order of events. I didn't read past the first 'page' of posts because as usual the thread started drifting off into other issues.

 

[HaShev]

The “Sevens” of Genesis 1:1—2:3
The correspondence of the first paragraph, Genesis 1:2 with 2:1-3, is
underscored by the number of Hebrew words in both being multiples of seven. Genesis
1:1 consists of seven (7x1) Hebrew words, Genesis 1:2 consists of fourteen (7x2) words,
and Genesis 2:1-3 thirty-five (7x5) words. In addition, “God” is mentioned thirty-five
(7x5) times, “earth” occurs twenty-one (7x3) times, and “heaven/firmament” also twenty-
one (7x3) times.
The number “seven” also dominates Genesis 1:1—2:3 in a startling way, not only
in the number of words in a particular section, but also in the number of times a specific
word or phrase recurs, which in all comprises the sevenfold patterning of this section:
♦
Seven paragraphs
: The arrangement of Genesis 1:1—2:3 consists of an
introduction and seven paragraphs. The introduction identifies the Creator and
creation (Gen. 1:1-2); six paragraphs corresponds to the six creation days (1:3-
21). The seventh paragraph marks the climactic seventh day, the day of consecration (2:1-3).

There are other chiastic structures in other 'books' that link back to Genesis;

As for the OP, 'day and night' means the creation of 'light and darkness', among many other allusions.

SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA
SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA

How many times must I or the Book tell you or hint to...
You are to keep the Sh'v's holy in remeberence of "the Name" (that's in the Holy city)
Exodus(Shemot) 20:7-8 in the Tanakh
"You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain, for the Lord will not hold blameless anyone who takes His name in vain." זלֹ֥א תִשָּׂ֛א אֶת־שֵֽׁם־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ לַשָּׁ֑וְא כִּ֣י לֹ֤א יְנַקֶּה֙ יְהֹוָ֔ה אֵ֛ת אֲשֶׁר־יִשָּׂ֥א אֶת־שְׁמ֖וֹ לַשָּֽׁוְא:8Remember the Sabbath day to sanctify it. חזָכוֹר֩ אֶת־י֨וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֜ת לְקַדְּשׁ֗וֹ:

So the Sheva (7th) day is kept to sanctify and remember the name which at that period they knew the proper Canaanite transliteration of that name Shalem/Shelim as SHV***.
Damn, even Hindus and
Sheva Day Adventists remember the name better then you guys do.
;-)

 

[hobelim]

How do you create earth after day and night? Day and night depends on rotation of the sphere. At that point, the Earth was still unformed.
How were plants created before the sun? Plants require the sun
How do you have lamps (sun and moon) giving their own light? The moon reflects light from the sun

Any explanations other than How much better and more satisfying it is to accept Scripture as it stands. It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed like found on ICR.com?

You think God operates on a 24-hour basis? Also, the 24 hour clock is here on Earth. Other planets such as Jupiter have 10 hour days. So the term "day" is relative to location. Plus, a "day" in the Bible could have represented an eon in real time.

No, a day is a day. why would it take more than six days to establish the light of the law? Do this, don't do that. If you do this, you will live, if you do that you will surely die. Its easy.

After an eon and many people, those who have eaten of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, duplicity, have never mastered it.

 

[Picaro]

The “Sevens” of Genesis 1:1—2:3
The correspondence of the first paragraph, Genesis 1:2 with 2:1-3, is
underscored by the number of Hebrew words in both being multiples of seven. Genesis
1:1 consists of seven (7x1) Hebrew words, Genesis 1:2 consists of fourteen (7x2) words,
and Genesis 2:1-3 thirty-five (7x5) words. In addition, “God” is mentioned thirty-five
(7x5) times, “earth” occurs twenty-one (7x3) times, and “heaven/firmament” also twenty-
one (7x3) times.
The number “seven” also dominates Genesis 1:1—2:3 in a startling way, not only
in the number of words in a particular section, but also in the number of times a specific
word or phrase recurs, which in all comprises the sevenfold patterning of this section:
♦
Seven paragraphs
: The arrangement of Genesis 1:1—2:3 consists of an
introduction and seven paragraphs. The introduction identifies the Creator and
creation (Gen. 1:1-2); six paragraphs corresponds to the six creation days (1:3-
21). The seventh paragraph marks the climactic seventh day, the day of consecration (2:1-3).

There are other chiastic structures in other 'books' that link back to Genesis;

As for the OP, 'day and night' means the creation of 'light and darkness', among many other allusions.

SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA
SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA

How many times must I or the Book tell you or hint to...
You are to keep the Sh'v's holy in remeberence of "the Name" (that's in the Holy city)
Exodus(Shemot) 20:7-8 in the Tanakh
"You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain, for the Lord will not hold blameless anyone who takes His name in vain." זלֹ֥א תִשָּׂ֛א אֶת־שֵֽׁם־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ לַשָּׁ֑וְא כִּ֣י לֹ֤א יְנַקֶּה֙ יְהֹוָ֔ה אֵ֛ת אֲשֶׁר־יִשָּׂ֥א אֶת־שְׁמ֖וֹ לַשָּֽׁוְא:8Remember the Sabbath day to sanctify it. חזָכוֹר֩ אֶת־י֨וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֜ת לְקַדְּשׁ֗וֹ:

So the Sheva (7th) day is kept to sanctify and remember the name which at that period they knew the proper Canaanite transliteration of that name Shalem/Shelim as SHV***.
Damn, even Hindus and
Sheva Day Adventists remember the name better then you guys do.
;-)

I don't read your posts. There are far more entertaining imbeciles and tards around.

 

[hobelim]

The “Sevens” of Genesis 1:1—2:3
The correspondence of the first paragraph, Genesis 1:2 with 2:1-3, is
underscored by the number of Hebrew words in both being multiples of seven. Genesis
1:1 consists of seven (7x1) Hebrew words, Genesis 1:2 consists of fourteen (7x2) words,
and Genesis 2:1-3 thirty-five (7x5) words. In addition, “God” is mentioned thirty-five
(7x5) times, “earth” occurs twenty-one (7x3) times, and “heaven/firmament” also twenty-
one (7x3) times.
The number “seven” also dominates Genesis 1:1—2:3 in a startling way, not only
in the number of words in a particular section, but also in the number of times a specific
word or phrase recurs, which in all comprises the sevenfold patterning of this section:
♦
Seven paragraphs
: The arrangement of Genesis 1:1—2:3 consists of an
introduction and seven paragraphs. The introduction identifies the Creator and
creation (Gen. 1:1-2); six paragraphs corresponds to the six creation days (1:3-
21). The seventh paragraph marks the climactic seventh day, the day of consecration (2:1-3).

There are other chiastic structures in other 'books' that link back to Genesis;

As for the OP, 'day and night' means the creation of 'light and darkness', among many other allusions.

SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA
SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA

How many times must I or the Book tell you or hint to...
You are to keep the Sh'v's holy in remeberence of "the Name" (that's in the Holy city)
Exodus(Shemot) 20:7-8 in the Tanakh
"You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain, for the Lord will not hold blameless anyone who takes His name in vain." זלֹ֥א תִשָּׂ֛א אֶת־שֵֽׁם־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ לַשָּׁ֑וְא כִּ֣י לֹ֤א יְנַקֶּה֙ יְהֹוָ֔ה אֵ֛ת אֲשֶׁר־יִשָּׂ֥א אֶת־שְׁמ֖וֹ לַשָּֽׁוְא:8Remember the Sabbath day to sanctify it. חזָכוֹר֩ אֶת־י֨וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֜ת לְקַדְּשׁ֗וֹ:

So the Sheva (7th) day is kept to sanctify and remember the name which at that period they knew the proper Canaanite transliteration of that name Shalem/Shelim as SHV***.
Damn, even Hindus and
Sheva Day Adventists remember the name better then you guys do.
;-)

I don't read your posts. There are far more entertaining imbeciles and tards around.

Yeah, like those perpetually at sixes and sevens....lol....

 

[HaShev]

The “Sevens” of Genesis 1:1—2:3
The correspondence of the first paragraph, Genesis 1:2 with 2:1-3, is
underscored by the number of Hebrew words in both being multiples of seven. Genesis
1:1 consists of seven (7x1) Hebrew words, Genesis 1:2 consists of fourteen (7x2) words,
and Genesis 2:1-3 thirty-five (7x5) words. In addition, “God” is mentioned thirty-five
(7x5) times, “earth” occurs twenty-one (7x3) times, and “heaven/firmament” also twenty-
one (7x3) times.
The number “seven” also dominates Genesis 1:1—2:3 in a startling way, not only
in the number of words in a particular section, but also in the number of times a specific
word or phrase recurs, which in all comprises the sevenfold patterning of this section:
♦
Seven paragraphs
: The arrangement of Genesis 1:1—2:3 consists of an
introduction and seven paragraphs. The introduction identifies the Creator and
creation (Gen. 1:1-2); six paragraphs corresponds to the six creation days (1:3-
21). The seventh paragraph marks the climactic seventh day, the day of consecration (2:1-3).

There are other chiastic structures in other 'books' that link back to Genesis;

As for the OP, 'day and night' means the creation of 'light and darkness', among many other allusions.

SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA
SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA SHEVA Sheva SHEVA Sheva SHEVA

How many times must I or the Book tell you or hint to...
You are to keep the Sh'v's holy in remeberence of "the Name" (that's in the Holy city)
Exodus(Shemot) 20:7-8 in the Tanakh
"You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain, for the Lord will not hold blameless anyone who takes His name in vain." זלֹ֥א תִשָּׂ֛א אֶת־שֵֽׁם־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ לַשָּׁ֑וְא כִּ֣י לֹ֤א יְנַקֶּה֙ יְהֹוָ֔ה אֵ֛ת אֲשֶׁר־יִשָּׂ֥א אֶת־שְׁמ֖וֹ לַשָּֽׁוְא:8Remember the Sabbath day to sanctify it. חזָכוֹר֩ אֶת־י֨וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֜ת לְקַדְּשׁ֗וֹ:

So the Sheva (7th) day is kept to sanctify and remember the name which at that period they knew the proper Canaanite transliteration of that name Shalem/Shelim as SHV***.
Damn, even Hindus and
Sheva Day Adventists remember the name better then you guys do.
;-)

I don't read your posts. There are far more entertaining imbeciles and tards around.

So you are helping my Oxford University reply posts about Christians hating disabled people or are you admitting it's a common trait in a faith without law, to lie and call everyone mentally challenged that you can't respond to? It's got to be one or the other, and neither looks good right now.

 

[hobelim]

are you admitting it's a common trait in a faith without law, to lie

bingo!

Can anyone in a state of cognitive dissonance be anything other than duplicitous?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But the serpent was right, and God was wrong....Adam should have eaten the apple...

How so?

He didn't become like God at all even if his eyes were opened, knowing good and evil.

He was returned to the scum of the earth to live out the rest of his days like a numbskull, the sweat of his brow, thinking, producing nothing...

A terrible fate.

Maybe you consider your life to be a terrible fate, but I find mine to be rather nice.

Yes, Adam did the right thing. better to live the truth as a free person than in a delusion as a slave.

LOL...No, For me its more like living in paradise where God is. I have never eaten the forbidden fruit.

Adam did the right thing? His brain produced thorns and thistles for the rest of his life completely naked, defenseless, east of Eden where the wild beats of the field are..He was better off as a dumb animal.....

He was cast out of Eden before he reached out his hand to take and eat the fruit of the tree of life.

What good is knowing good and evil if you can't understand any of it and don't have a clue about what to do to increase good or avoid evil because your brain doesn't work?


A terrible fate, but not mine....

He absolutely did the right thing. The pursuit of knowledge is noble and good, and a much finer thing than serving an evil deity like the god of the Bible. "right/wrong" here is not judged by what is personally best for Adam. IN fact, that's the worst standard imaginable.

Of course the pursuit of knowledge is noble and good but thats not the fruit that was eaten. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam did not eat it for growth or any noble pursuit but to be like God and not die.

If a talking serpent convinced you that you could worship the eucharist and not die and then you ate it to receive eternal life, to rule the earth with Jesus, and to live forever you would lose your mind in that very day and live out the rest of your life like a numbskull who prays to a block of wood for protection and guidance and doesn't have enough sense to get out of the rain or put on some clothes.

Easy prey or at the very least an odd sight and the object of ridicule among the wild beasts of the field.

It would have absolutely been better for Adam if he had retained the purity of his mind, never knowing what it is to die and be eaten alive by every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird..

I dont care what was personally best for Adam. I care what was right. And an evil god tempting humans with knowledge he says they cannot have is the antagonist. An evil god demanding fealty and ignorance is the antagonist. I would rather see this subhuman Adam develop into an actual human, instead of being a happy, lobotomized idiot. But hey, would could go on all day about the backwards ethics and morality of the Bible fantasies.

 

[hobelim]

How so?

He didn't become like God at all even if his eyes were opened, knowing good and evil.

He was returned to the scum of the earth to live out the rest of his days like a numbskull, the sweat of his brow, thinking, producing nothing...

A terrible fate.

Maybe you consider your life to be a terrible fate, but I find mine to be rather nice.

Yes, Adam did the right thing. better to live the truth as a free person than in a delusion as a slave.

LOL...No, For me its more like living in paradise where God is. I have never eaten the forbidden fruit.

Adam did the right thing? His brain produced thorns and thistles for the rest of his life completely naked, defenseless, east of Eden where the wild beats of the field are..He was better off as a dumb animal.....

He was cast out of Eden before he reached out his hand to take and eat the fruit of the tree of life.

What good is knowing good and evil if you can't understand any of it and don't have a clue about what to do to increase good or avoid evil because your brain doesn't work?


A terrible fate, but not mine....

He absolutely did the right thing. The pursuit of knowledge is noble and good, and a much finer thing than serving an evil deity like the god of the Bible. "right/wrong" here is not judged by what is personally best for Adam. IN fact, that's the worst standard imaginable.

Of course the pursuit of knowledge is noble and good but thats not the fruit that was eaten. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam did not eat it for growth or any noble pursuit but to be like God and not die.

If a talking serpent convinced you that you could worship the eucharist and not die and then you ate it to receive eternal life, to rule the earth with Jesus, and to live forever you would lose your mind in that very day and live out the rest of your life like a numbskull who prays to a block of wood for protection and guidance and doesn't have enough sense to get out of the rain or put on some clothes.

Easy prey or at the very least an odd sight and the object of ridicule among the wild beasts of the field.

It would have absolutely been better for Adam if he had retained the purity of his mind, never knowing what it is to die and be eaten alive by every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird..

I dont care what was personally best for Adam. I care what was right. And an evil god tempting humans with knowledge he says they cannot have is the antagonist. An evil god demanding fealty and ignorance is the antagonist. I would rather see this subhuman Adam develop into an actual human, instead of being a happy, lobotomized idiot. But hey, would could go on all day about the backwards ethics and morality of the Bible fantasies.

I try to understand what these people were teaching their children. Don't you believe that they would not have given their children turds if they were hungry for breakfast?

the story of Adam and eve is a teaching and a warning that in the world beyond the boundaries of their little community where law reigns there are wild deceitful people out there who have no compunction about being duplicitous and if you swallow the specious promises of the duplicitous you will surely get ripped off, lose control of your mind and have to go through life like a ship without a rudder.

Sorcery was big in those days, religious charlatans, (talking serpents), who pretended to have magical powers based on what we know of as mind control were the stars of the ancient world.

Looking at it this way, the teaching is still relevant, still applies, still good food to eat.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Maybe you consider your life to be a terrible fate, but I find mine to be rather nice.

Yes, Adam did the right thing. better to live the truth as a free person than in a delusion as a slave.

LOL...No, For me its more like living in paradise where God is. I have never eaten the forbidden fruit.

Adam did the right thing? His brain produced thorns and thistles for the rest of his life completely naked, defenseless, east of Eden where the wild beats of the field are..He was better off as a dumb animal.....

He was cast out of Eden before he reached out his hand to take and eat the fruit of the tree of life.

What good is knowing good and evil if you can't understand any of it and don't have a clue about what to do to increase good or avoid evil because your brain doesn't work?


A terrible fate, but not mine....

He absolutely did the right thing. The pursuit of knowledge is noble and good, and a much finer thing than serving an evil deity like the god of the Bible. "right/wrong" here is not judged by what is personally best for Adam. IN fact, that's the worst standard imaginable.

Of course the pursuit of knowledge is noble and good but thats not the fruit that was eaten. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam did not eat it for growth or any noble pursuit but to be like God and not die.

If a talking serpent convinced you that you could worship the eucharist and not die and then you ate it to receive eternal life, to rule the earth with Jesus, and to live forever you would lose your mind in that very day and live out the rest of your life like a numbskull who prays to a block of wood for protection and guidance and doesn't have enough sense to get out of the rain or put on some clothes.

Easy prey or at the very least an odd sight and the object of ridicule among the wild beasts of the field.

It would have absolutely been better for Adam if he had retained the purity of his mind, never knowing what it is to die and be eaten alive by every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird..

I dont care what was personally best for Adam. I care what was right. And an evil god tempting humans with knowledge he says they cannot have is the antagonist. An evil god demanding fealty and ignorance is the antagonist. I would rather see this subhuman Adam develop into an actual human, instead of being a happy, lobotomized idiot. But hey, would could go on all day about the backwards ethics and morality of the Bible fantasies.

I try to understand what these people were teaching their children. Don't you believe that they would not have given their children turds if they were hungry for breakfast?

the story of Adam and eve is a teaching and a warning that in the world beyond the boundaries of their little community where law reigns there are wild deceitful people out there who have no compunction about being duplicitous and if you swallow the specious promises of the duplicitous you will surely get ripped off, lose control of your mind and have to go through life like a ship without a rudder.

Looking at it this way, the teaching is still relevant, still applies, still good food to eat.

Yes, but you forgot the rest: You can avoid all of these intellectual, real world challenges, if you simply wrap yourself in fantasy, lobotomize yourself, and hide in a bubble made of gawd stuff.

Terrible lesson. It glorifies ignorance and fantasy, while eschewing intellectualism and knowledge. Completely backwards, intellectually, morally , and ethically.

 

[hobelim]

LOL...No, For me its more like living in paradise where God is. I have never eaten the forbidden fruit.

Adam did the right thing? His brain produced thorns and thistles for the rest of his life completely naked, defenseless, east of Eden where the wild beats of the field are..He was better off as a dumb animal.....

He was cast out of Eden before he reached out his hand to take and eat the fruit of the tree of life.

What good is knowing good and evil if you can't understand any of it and don't have a clue about what to do to increase good or avoid evil because your brain doesn't work?


A terrible fate, but not mine....

He absolutely did the right thing. The pursuit of knowledge is noble and good, and a much finer thing than serving an evil deity like the god of the Bible. "right/wrong" here is not judged by what is personally best for Adam. IN fact, that's the worst standard imaginable.

Of course the pursuit of knowledge is noble and good but thats not the fruit that was eaten. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam did not eat it for growth or any noble pursuit but to be like God and not die.

If a talking serpent convinced you that you could worship the eucharist and not die and then you ate it to receive eternal life, to rule the earth with Jesus, and to live forever you would lose your mind in that very day and live out the rest of your life like a numbskull who prays to a block of wood for protection and guidance and doesn't have enough sense to get out of the rain or put on some clothes.

Easy prey or at the very least an odd sight and the object of ridicule among the wild beasts of the field.

It would have absolutely been better for Adam if he had retained the purity of his mind, never knowing what it is to die and be eaten alive by every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird..

I dont care what was personally best for Adam. I care what was right. And an evil god tempting humans with knowledge he says they cannot have is the antagonist. An evil god demanding fealty and ignorance is the antagonist. I would rather see this subhuman Adam develop into an actual human, instead of being a happy, lobotomized idiot. But hey, would could go on all day about the backwards ethics and morality of the Bible fantasies.

I try to understand what these people were teaching their children. Don't you believe that they would not have given their children turds if they were hungry for breakfast?

the story of Adam and eve is a teaching and a warning that in the world beyond the boundaries of their little community where law reigns there are wild deceitful people out there who have no compunction about being duplicitous and if you swallow the specious promises of the duplicitous you will surely get ripped off, lose control of your mind and have to go through life like a ship without a rudder.

Looking at it this way, the teaching is still relevant, still applies, still good food to eat.

Yes, but you forgot the rest: You can avoid all of these intellectual, real world challenges, if you simply wrap yourself in fantasy, lobotomize yourself, and hide in a bubble made of gawd stuff.

Terrible lesson. It glorifies ignorance and fantasy, while eschewing intellectualism and knowledge. Completely backwards, intellectually, morally , and ethically.

lol...I agree that that is a terrible lesson but, if you think a little more deeply about it, its not based on whats actually written or the intended teaching.

Sounds more like the dogma and specious falsehoods of talking serpents that misrepresent the stories in the Bible, OT and NT ( depending on the species) in order to deceive the gullible to their advantage.

Just like that ever deceitful talking serpent of old.....

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

He absolutely did the right thing. The pursuit of knowledge is noble and good, and a much finer thing than serving an evil deity like the god of the Bible. "right/wrong" here is not judged by what is personally best for Adam. IN fact, that's the worst standard imaginable.

Of course the pursuit of knowledge is noble and good but thats not the fruit that was eaten. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam did not eat it for growth or any noble pursuit but to be like God and not die.

If a talking serpent convinced you that you could worship the eucharist and not die and then you ate it to receive eternal life, to rule the earth with Jesus, and to live forever you would lose your mind in that very day and live out the rest of your life like a numbskull who prays to a block of wood for protection and guidance and doesn't have enough sense to get out of the rain or put on some clothes.

Easy prey or at the very least an odd sight and the object of ridicule among the wild beasts of the field.

It would have absolutely been better for Adam if he had retained the purity of his mind, never knowing what it is to die and be eaten alive by every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird..

I dont care what was personally best for Adam. I care what was right. And an evil god tempting humans with knowledge he says they cannot have is the antagonist. An evil god demanding fealty and ignorance is the antagonist. I would rather see this subhuman Adam develop into an actual human, instead of being a happy, lobotomized idiot. But hey, would could go on all day about the backwards ethics and morality of the Bible fantasies.

I try to understand what these people were teaching their children. Don't you believe that they would not have given their children turds if they were hungry for breakfast?

the story of Adam and eve is a teaching and a warning that in the world beyond the boundaries of their little community where law reigns there are wild deceitful people out there who have no compunction about being duplicitous and if you swallow the specious promises of the duplicitous you will surely get ripped off, lose control of your mind and have to go through life like a ship without a rudder.

Looking at it this way, the teaching is still relevant, still applies, still good food to eat.

Yes, but you forgot the rest: You can avoid all of these intellectual, real world challenges, if you simply wrap yourself in fantasy, lobotomize yourself, and hide in a bubble made of gawd stuff.

Terrible lesson. It glorifies ignorance and fantasy, while eschewing intellectualism and knowledge. Completely backwards, intellectually, morally , and ethically.

lol...I agree that that is a terrible lesson but, if you think a little more deeply about it, its not based on whats actually written or the intended teaching.

Sounds more like the dogma and specious falsehoods of talking serpents that misrepresent the stories in the Bible, OT and NT ( depending on the species) in order to deceive the gullible to their advantage.

Just like that ever deceitful talking serpent of old.....

And how do we know they are "misrepresenting" the stories, and not just lookong at them differently? That's a problem with religious literature. It's one thing to debate what a story means to you; it's quite another to debate how it is supposed to dictate our lives. I never entered into a debate of the moral undercurrents of a Twain story with the pretense that my eternal well-being depended on the outcome of the debate!

 

[Taz]

So why did it take god 6 days to make everything? Is he slow at math?
And on the seventh day, was He resting from a hangover? Because I do that sometimes on Sunday.

 

[hobelim]

Of course the pursuit of knowledge is noble and good but thats not the fruit that was eaten. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam did not eat it for growth or any noble pursuit but to be like God and not die.

If a talking serpent convinced you that you could worship the eucharist and not die and then you ate it to receive eternal life, to rule the earth with Jesus, and to live forever you would lose your mind in that very day and live out the rest of your life like a numbskull who prays to a block of wood for protection and guidance and doesn't have enough sense to get out of the rain or put on some clothes.

Easy prey or at the very least an odd sight and the object of ridicule among the wild beasts of the field.

It would have absolutely been better for Adam if he had retained the purity of his mind, never knowing what it is to die and be eaten alive by every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird..

I dont care what was personally best for Adam. I care what was right. And an evil god tempting humans with knowledge he says they cannot have is the antagonist. An evil god demanding fealty and ignorance is the antagonist. I would rather see this subhuman Adam develop into an actual human, instead of being a happy, lobotomized idiot. But hey, would could go on all day about the backwards ethics and morality of the Bible fantasies.

I try to understand what these people were teaching their children. Don't you believe that they would not have given their children turds if they were hungry for breakfast?

the story of Adam and eve is a teaching and a warning that in the world beyond the boundaries of their little community where law reigns there are wild deceitful people out there who have no compunction about being duplicitous and if you swallow the specious promises of the duplicitous you will surely get ripped off, lose control of your mind and have to go through life like a ship without a rudder.

Looking at it this way, the teaching is still relevant, still applies, still good food to eat.

Yes, but you forgot the rest: You can avoid all of these intellectual, real world challenges, if you simply wrap yourself in fantasy, lobotomize yourself, and hide in a bubble made of gawd stuff.

Terrible lesson. It glorifies ignorance and fantasy, while eschewing intellectualism and knowledge. Completely backwards, intellectually, morally , and ethically.

lol...I agree that that is a terrible lesson but, if you think a little more deeply about it, its not based on whats actually written or the intended teaching.

Sounds more like the dogma and specious falsehoods of talking serpents that misrepresent the stories in the Bible, OT and NT ( depending on the species) in order to deceive the gullible to their advantage.

Just like that ever deceitful talking serpent of old.....

And how do we know they are "misrepresenting" the stories, and not just lookong at them differently? That's a problem with religious literature. It's one thing to debate what a story means to you; it's quite another to debate how it is supposed to dictate our lives. I never entered into a debate of the moral undercurrents of a Twain story with the pretense that my eternal well-being depended on the outcome of the debate!

How do we know they are misrepresenting the stories? Reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation. So far much of our differences have been inconsequential. At least we agree on the nature of reality, the value of scientific study and discoveries , and the absurdity of professing a belief in supernatural or magical gobbledygook..

When the waters of contention are stirred, the truth is brought out. I have no problem being proven wrong if the truth is brought out. Everybody would benefit.

so far you have learned that the creation of Heaven and Earth according to the book of Genesis is not about the creation of the solar system, the earth, the first plants, animals, or human beings whether you like it or not.

You have also been given the basis, firmament, upon which to build an understanding about what the subjects of Heaven and Earth in the story are actually about.


Now put on your thinking cap and get to work.


Thanks for playing along...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I dont care what was personally best for Adam. I care what was right. And an evil god tempting humans with knowledge he says they cannot have is the antagonist. An evil god demanding fealty and ignorance is the antagonist. I would rather see this subhuman Adam develop into an actual human, instead of being a happy, lobotomized idiot. But hey, would could go on all day about the backwards ethics and morality of the Bible fantasies.

I try to understand what these people were teaching their children. Don't you believe that they would not have given their children turds if they were hungry for breakfast?

the story of Adam and eve is a teaching and a warning that in the world beyond the boundaries of their little community where law reigns there are wild deceitful people out there who have no compunction about being duplicitous and if you swallow the specious promises of the duplicitous you will surely get ripped off, lose control of your mind and have to go through life like a ship without a rudder.

Looking at it this way, the teaching is still relevant, still applies, still good food to eat.

Yes, but you forgot the rest: You can avoid all of these intellectual, real world challenges, if you simply wrap yourself in fantasy, lobotomize yourself, and hide in a bubble made of gawd stuff.

Terrible lesson. It glorifies ignorance and fantasy, while eschewing intellectualism and knowledge. Completely backwards, intellectually, morally , and ethically.

lol...I agree that that is a terrible lesson but, if you think a little more deeply about it, its not based on whats actually written or the intended teaching.

Sounds more like the dogma and specious falsehoods of talking serpents that misrepresent the stories in the Bible, OT and NT ( depending on the species) in order to deceive the gullible to their advantage.

Just like that ever deceitful talking serpent of old.....

And how do we know they are "misrepresenting" the stories, and not just lookong at them differently? That's a problem with religious literature. It's one thing to debate what a story means to you; it's quite another to debate how it is supposed to dictate our lives. I never entered into a debate of the moral undercurrents of a Twain story with the pretense that my eternal well-being depended on the outcome of the debate!

How do we know they are misrepresenting the stories? Reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation. So far much of our differences have been inconsequential. At least we agree on the nature of reality, the value of scientific study and discoveries , and the absurdity of professing a belief in supernatural or magical gobbledygook..

When the waters of contention are stirred, the truth is brought out. I have no problem being proven wrong if the truth is brought out. Everybody would benefit.

so far you have learned that the creation of Heaven and Earth according to the book of Genesis is not about the creation of the solar system, the earth, the first plants, animals, or human beings whether you like it or not.

You have also been given the basis, firmament, upon which to build an understanding about what the subjects of Heaven and Earth in the story are actually about.


Now put on your thinking cap and get to work.


Thanks for playing along...

"Reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation. "

On fantastic Biblical tales? Haha....no it isn't .....what a completely ridiculous thing to say. No, sorry, the correct answer is that there is absolutely no way whatsoever to be able to tell who is interpreting some bit of religious bullshit correctly and who isn't. Sectarian strife will never, ever go away, because there is absolutely no way, real or imagined, to tell who is correct about any of it.

 

[hobelim]

I try to understand what these people were teaching their children. Don't you believe that they would not have given their children turds if they were hungry for breakfast?

the story of Adam and eve is a teaching and a warning that in the world beyond the boundaries of their little community where law reigns there are wild deceitful people out there who have no compunction about being duplicitous and if you swallow the specious promises of the duplicitous you will surely get ripped off, lose control of your mind and have to go through life like a ship without a rudder.

Looking at it this way, the teaching is still relevant, still applies, still good food to eat.

Yes, but you forgot the rest: You can avoid all of these intellectual, real world challenges, if you simply wrap yourself in fantasy, lobotomize yourself, and hide in a bubble made of gawd stuff.

Terrible lesson. It glorifies ignorance and fantasy, while eschewing intellectualism and knowledge. Completely backwards, intellectually, morally , and ethically.

lol...I agree that that is a terrible lesson but, if you think a little more deeply about it, its not based on whats actually written or the intended teaching.

Sounds more like the dogma and specious falsehoods of talking serpents that misrepresent the stories in the Bible, OT and NT ( depending on the species) in order to deceive the gullible to their advantage.

Just like that ever deceitful talking serpent of old.....

And how do we know they are "misrepresenting" the stories, and not just lookong at them differently? That's a problem with religious literature. It's one thing to debate what a story means to you; it's quite another to debate how it is supposed to dictate our lives. I never entered into a debate of the moral undercurrents of a Twain story with the pretense that my eternal well-being depended on the outcome of the debate!

How do we know they are misrepresenting the stories? Reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation. So far much of our differences have been inconsequential. At least we agree on the nature of reality, the value of scientific study and discoveries , and the absurdity of professing a belief in supernatural or magical gobbledygook..

When the waters of contention are stirred, the truth is brought out. I have no problem being proven wrong if the truth is brought out. Everybody would benefit.

so far you have learned that the creation of Heaven and Earth according to the book of Genesis is not about the creation of the solar system, the earth, the first plants, animals, or human beings whether you like it or not.

You have also been given the basis, firmament, upon which to build an understanding about what the subjects of Heaven and Earth in the story are actually about.


Now put on your thinking cap and get to work.


Thanks for playing along...

"Reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation. "

On fantastic Biblical tales? Haha....no it isn't .....what a completely ridiculous thing to say. No, sorry, the correct answer is that there is absolutely no way whatsoever to be able to tell who is interpreting some bit of religious bullshit correctly and who isn't. Sectarian strife will never, ever go away, because there is absolutely no way, real or imagined, to tell who is correct about any of it.

Yes, reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation of any fantastical story.

Metaphors, allegories,parables, homonyms, hyperbole, etc., are all well known literary techniques and teaching tools.

The OT is called the Torah,meaning instruction not history. The gospels mean good news not bullshit.

And if you can't find a way to interpret a fantastical story like the bodily ascension of Jesus into heaven, in a way that conforms to reality doesn't mean that there isn't a way. If it makes you feel better to say its all bullshit than to admit that you haven't figured it out, you might as well stop disputing with me and go and play golf or something...it will certainly mess up your day when the truth comes to light..


Reality itself inescapably limits the possibilities of what the story could possibly be about. It is impossible that the ascension is about Jesus bodily floating up into the sky literally after he had risen from the dead and Acts 1:11 describing the ascension explicitly says in no uncertain terms that Jesus did not float up into the sky.

Would you like to see how although the disciples were watching and they lost sight of Jesus after he was obscured behind a cloud has nothing whatever to do with clouds in the sky or altitude?

There is something of great value buried and hidden there.

"The kingdom of Heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it buried it again,"

can you dig it?

Surely the sweat of your brow can produce more than just thorns and thistles.

Maybe? Maybe not.

 

[ChrisL]

People are not serpents. Serpents are snakes. There are some good people who still make mistakes and can still do bad things, there are some people who are not so good. It has a lot to do with your environment and how you were raised and nothing to do with "serpents" or gods.

lol... the talking serpent is a character in what amounts to a fairy tale that represents a type of person that exists in real life, actual reality.

I can't believe anyone over the age of 8 doesn't realize this especially at a time in this world where living talking serpents, as many species as religions, are coiled up everywhere in all levels of society like a plague, collecting the gullible like possessions to play with in their comfy house in hell..


I remember even you describing an encounter with a one when you were young who was brazenly murdering entire families in front of your eyes in broad daylight with a matzo laced with deadly poison ..

Have you forgotten? Are you blind? Do you not realize the danger you were in or how close you were to being abandoned to a terrible fate?

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, but you forgot the rest: You can avoid all of these intellectual, real world challenges, if you simply wrap yourself in fantasy, lobotomize yourself, and hide in a bubble made of gawd stuff.

Terrible lesson. It glorifies ignorance and fantasy, while eschewing intellectualism and knowledge. Completely backwards, intellectually, morally , and ethically.

lol...I agree that that is a terrible lesson but, if you think a little more deeply about it, its not based on whats actually written or the intended teaching.

Sounds more like the dogma and specious falsehoods of talking serpents that misrepresent the stories in the Bible, OT and NT ( depending on the species) in order to deceive the gullible to their advantage.

Just like that ever deceitful talking serpent of old.....

And how do we know they are "misrepresenting" the stories, and not just lookong at them differently? That's a problem with religious literature. It's one thing to debate what a story means to you; it's quite another to debate how it is supposed to dictate our lives. I never entered into a debate of the moral undercurrents of a Twain story with the pretense that my eternal well-being depended on the outcome of the debate!

How do we know they are misrepresenting the stories? Reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation. So far much of our differences have been inconsequential. At least we agree on the nature of reality, the value of scientific study and discoveries , and the absurdity of professing a belief in supernatural or magical gobbledygook..

When the waters of contention are stirred, the truth is brought out. I have no problem being proven wrong if the truth is brought out. Everybody would benefit.

so far you have learned that the creation of Heaven and Earth according to the book of Genesis is not about the creation of the solar system, the earth, the first plants, animals, or human beings whether you like it or not.

You have also been given the basis, firmament, upon which to build an understanding about what the subjects of Heaven and Earth in the story are actually about.


Now put on your thinking cap and get to work.


Thanks for playing along...

"Reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation. "

On fantastic Biblical tales? Haha....no it isn't .....what a completely ridiculous thing to say. No, sorry, the correct answer is that there is absolutely no way whatsoever to be able to tell who is interpreting some bit of religious bullshit correctly and who isn't. Sectarian strife will never, ever go away, because there is absolutely no way, real or imagined, to tell who is correct about any of it.

Yes, reality is a reliable and constant constraint on any possible interpretation of any fantastical story.

Metaphors, allegories,parables, homonyms, hyperbole, etc., are all well known literary techniques and teaching tools.

The OT is called the Torah,meaning instruction not history. The gospels mean good news not bullshit.

And if you can't find a way to interpret a fantastical story like the bodily ascension of Jesus into heaven, in a way that conforms to reality doesn't mean that there isn't a way. If it makes you feel better to say its all bullshit than to admit that you haven't figured it out, you might as well stop disputing with me and go and play golf or something...it will certainly mess up your day when the truth comes to light..


Reality itself inescapably limits the possibilities of what the story could possibly be about. It is impossible that the ascension is about Jesus bodily floating up into the sky literally after he had risen from the dead and Acts 1:11 describing the ascension explicitly says in no uncertain terms that Jesus did not float up into the sky.

Would you like to see how although the disciples were watching and they lost sight of Jesus after he was obscured behind a cloud has nothing whatever to do with clouds in the sky or altitude?

There is something of great value buried and hidden there.

"The kingdom of Heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it buried it again,"

can you dig it?

Surely the sweat of your brow can produce more than just thorns and thistles.

Maybe? Maybe not.

You people are just nuts. Lol. Some day, you will die, decay and become a part of the earth. There is no more evidence of anything other than that happening ever at any time.