81% of Americans under 45 would fail basic ‘US citizenship test’

[SweetSue92]

The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.

This.

 

[SweetSue92]

I took one of their 24-question tests. To say it was simple would be a massive understatement. That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind. The education system is a DISASTER.

Do you not understand the difference in being taught something and then retaking the knowledge?

Of course you don't because you don't know anything about learning.

Did you take the test? It's a joke. That 1/3 of Americans can't pass it is an abomination. One doesn't need a master's degree from Georgetown to pass it.

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I took one of their 24-question tests. To say it was simple would be a massive understatement. That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind. The education system is a DISASTER.

Do you not understand the difference in being taught something and then retaking the knowledge?

Of course you don't because you don't know anything about learning.

Did you take the test? It's a joke. That 1/3 of Americans can't pass it is an abomination. One doesn't need a master's degree from Georgetown to pass it.

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

 

[SweetSue92]

I took one of their 24-question tests. To say it was simple would be a massive understatement. That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind. The education system is a DISASTER.

Do you not understand the difference in being taught something and then retaking the knowledge?

Of course you don't because you don't know anything about learning.

Did you take the test? It's a joke. That 1/3 of Americans can't pass it is an abomination. One doesn't need a master's degree from Georgetown to pass it.

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher.

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it.

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw.

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Do you not understand the difference in being taught something and then retaking the knowledge?

Of course you don't because you don't know anything about learning.

Did you take the test? It's a joke. That 1/3 of Americans can't pass it is an abomination. One doesn't need a master's degree from Georgetown to pass it.

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher.

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it.

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw.

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.

Nope. You believe I did. There's a difference.

My son was made to drill the first ten Constitutional amendments when he was nine. They had no meaning to his real life, but he had to memorize them word for word regardless, and did.

That was twenty years ago. He can still rattle them off.

In any event, the lack of memorization of facts in current educational practices and the dependence upon various machines to replace the brain is largely to blame for the public system turning out hordes of barely functional idiots.

When I was in school (old man mantra) the United States was ranked first in education in the world. Now, we are twenty-seventh. The product produced with all of these Critical Thinking Skills and Project Based Education things seems to have completely faceplanted. After all, one cannot think critically without something in one's head about which to critically think.

In any event, it was most unwise to replace American History and Civics with multicultural, gender and diversity studies. The results are quite clear.

 

[SweetSue92]

Did you take the test? It's a joke. That 1/3 of Americans can't pass it is an abomination. One doesn't need a master's degree from Georgetown to pass it.

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher.

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it.

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw.

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.

Nope. You believe I did. There's a difference.

My son was made to drill the first ten Constitutional amendments when he was nine. They had no meaning to his real life, but he had to memorize them word for word regardless, and did.

That was twenty years ago. He can still rattle them off.

In any event, the lack of memorization of facts in current educational practices and the dependence upon various machines to replace the brain is largely to blame for the public system turning out hordes of barely functional idiots.

When I was in school (old man mantra) the United States was ranked first in education in the world. Now, we are twenty-seventh. The product produced with all of these Critical Thinking Skills and Project Based Education seems to have completely faceplanted. One cannot think critically without something in one's head about which to critically think.

In any event, it was most unwise to replace American History and Civics with multicultural, gender and diversity studies. The results are quite clear.

Your son can probably rattle that off because he was raised in a household where the Constitution was valued and honored; where this was part of who he was all around him. IOW it resonated with him. That's why he retained it for so many years.

I totally agree that children must be taught the basics in a very "basic" way, NOT with technology. I completely agree that you cannot think critically if you have nothing to think critically ABOUT. You cannot construct thinking from no knowledge. Totally agree there.

But we cannot end anymore with regurgitated facts. Google can give you that. Regurgitated facts is not LEARNING, as the educators in this thread are telling you--as you yourself said, when you said you can remember high school parties and song lyrics but not other things. I am explaining to you WHY you can. Good teachers know how to connect learning with THOSE things so kids can retain knowledge better. And actually learn.

And mostly, conservatives sneer and snort and it and want kids to go back to rote memorization as not only a launching pad to learning, but as the end-all.

It's just bad practice.

Conservatives do not do education well. They just don't

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher.

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it.

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw.

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.

Nope. You believe I did. There's a difference.

My son was made to drill the first ten Constitutional amendments when he was nine. They had no meaning to his real life, but he had to memorize them word for word regardless, and did.

That was twenty years ago. He can still rattle them off.

In any event, the lack of memorization of facts in current educational practices and the dependence upon various machines to replace the brain is largely to blame for the public system turning out hordes of barely functional idiots.

When I was in school (old man mantra) the United States was ranked first in education in the world. Now, we are twenty-seventh. The product produced with all of these Critical Thinking Skills and Project Based Education seems to have completely faceplanted. One cannot think critically without something in one's head about which to critically think.

In any event, it was most unwise to replace American History and Civics with multicultural, gender and diversity studies. The results are quite clear.

Your son can probably rattle that off because he was raised in a household where the Constitution was valued and honored; where this was part of who he was all around him. IOW it resonated with him. That's why he retained it for so many years.

I totally agree that children must be taught the basics in a very "basic" way, NOT with technology. I completely agree that you cannot think critically if you have nothing to think critically ABOUT. You cannot construct thinking from no knowledge. Totally agree there.

But we cannot end anymore with regurgitated facts. Google can give you that.

If Google is available. Who said anything about an "end"?

Regurgitated facts is not LEARNING

But they ARE knowledge, and a path to further knowledge. Intelligence is the ability to make connections between disparate facts. If you don't know facts, there is nothing to connect.

And mostly, conservatives sneer and snort and it and want kids to go back to rote memorization as not only a launching pad to learning, but as the end-all.

I know no one who considers it an "end-all".

Conservatives do not do education well. They just don't

Moot.

In any event, I am not conservative, but liberal in the classic definition.

 

[Unkotare]

.......

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. ......

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher.

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it.

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw.

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.

Nope. You believe I did. There's a difference.

My son was made to drill the first ten Constitutional amendments when he was nine. They had no meaning to his real life, but he had to memorize them word for word regardless, and did.

That was twenty years ago. He can still rattle them off.

In any event, the lack of memorization of facts in current educational practices and the dependence upon various machines to replace the brain is largely to blame for the public system turning out hordes of barely functional idiots.

When I was in school (old man mantra) the United States was ranked first in education in the world. Now, we are twenty-seventh. The product produced with all of these Critical Thinking Skills and Project Based Education seems to have completely faceplanted. One cannot think critically without something in one's head about which to critically think.

In any event, it was most unwise to replace American History and Civics with multicultural, gender and diversity studies. The results are quite clear.

Your son can probably rattle that off because he was raised in a household where the Constitution was valued and honored; where this was part of who he was all around him. IOW it resonated with him. That's why he retained it for so many years.

I totally agree that children must be taught the basics in a very "basic" way, NOT with technology. I completely agree that you cannot think critically if you have nothing to think critically ABOUT. You cannot construct thinking from no knowledge. Totally agree there.

But we cannot end anymore with regurgitated facts. Google can give you that. Regurgitated facts is not LEARNING, as the educators in this thread are telling you--as you yourself said, when you said you can remember high school parties and song lyrics but not other things. I am explaining to you WHY you can. Good teachers know how to connect learning with THOSE things so kids can retain knowledge better. And actually learn.

And mostly, conservatives sneer and snort and it and want kids to go back to rote memorization as not only a launching pad to learning, but as the end-all.

It's just bad practice.

Conservatives do not do education well. They just don't

Partisan generalities are not part of any productive discussion about education. Try to control your subjectivity or this will just devolve into bitter sniping like every other thread on this site.

 

[Unkotare]

And in pendulum news today, some people have swung so far away from the boogeyman of "rote memorization" that they have just found a new way to undermine education.

Simply reproducing a static list of facts and figures without context or relevance will have limited results, but sitting around holding hands and discussing feelings about generalities devoid of concrete facts and figures will also produce nothing of much value.

“Virtue is the golden mean between two vices, the one of excess and the other of deficiency” — Aristotle


Too much theory and feeling without fact is useless, just as a firehose of facts without context are.

Many kids come to the US to study and find their grade-level math in our system to be a joke; things they learned many years prior. Why? Part of it is that they were taught formulas and then set to complete hundreds if not thousands of exercises until they had it down cold. In other words, they put in the work. Some people here seem to think that nose to the grindstone work is abusive and oppressive. Such people miss the point at least as much as those who might suggest that memorizing Lincoln's hat size means you understand the significance of the Civil War.

 

[Penelope]

The content is not really relevant to being a “good citizen”

Good citizens vote, volunteer in their community, help their neighbors

Memorizing civics facts and historical dates does not make you a good citizen

Not having a basic knowledge of the Constitution and not knowing how government works makes you a worthless citizen. Dead wood.

Have you actually read the Constitution?
Most is information setting up the three branches of Government. The bill of rights is critical to good citizenship....the rest is of little value to the day to day realities of citizenship

Knowing the details of how a bill gets passed or how elections are conducted does not help most people

What most people need to know is which candidate best reflects their interests

Their best interest? I thought we were a community according to the left????

So only if it's in the best interest of the left and screw the law and screw the Constitution that makes America work somehow?

Such a drama queen

Drama queen my butt, you prove it that the left only cares about themselves and not some Bible thumper in Oklahoma..


You sound like Bill Maher last night bitching why Wyoming is even a state and gets two senators .


.

I don't care for any bible thumpers and why oh why does Wyoming get 2 Senators? They should get one, and CA take the second. They are overly represented.

 

[Penelope]

Democrats require an uninformed citizenry. That way they can solve all their problems for them.

Actually I find Trumpets very misinformed. They listen to his lies and propaganda like he is their God.

 

[Unkotare]

Not having a basic knowledge of the Constitution and not knowing how government works makes you a worthless citizen. Dead wood.

Have you actually read the Constitution?
Most is information setting up the three branches of Government. The bill of rights is critical to good citizenship....the rest is of little value to the day to day realities of citizenship

Knowing the details of how a bill gets passed or how elections are conducted does not help most people

What most people need to know is which candidate best reflects their interests

Their best interest? I thought we were a community according to the left????

So only if it's in the best interest of the left and screw the law and screw the Constitution that makes America work somehow?

Such a drama queen

Drama queen my butt, you prove it that the left only cares about themselves and not some Bible thumper in Oklahoma..


You sound like Bill Maher last night bitching why Wyoming is even a state and gets two senators .


.

I don't care for any bible thumpers and why oh why does Wyoming get 2 Senators? They should get one, and CA take the second. They are overly represented.

Most ignorant, idiotic post of the day.

 

[Correll]

Not having a basic knowledge of the Constitution and not knowing how government works makes you a worthless citizen. Dead wood.

Have you actually read the Constitution?
Most is information setting up the three branches of Government. The bill of rights is critical to good citizenship....the rest is of little value to the day to day realities of citizenship

Knowing the details of how a bill gets passed or how elections are conducted does not help most people

What most people need to know is which candidate best reflects their interests

Their best interest? I thought we were a community according to the left????

So only if it's in the best interest of the left and screw the law and screw the Constitution that makes America work somehow?

Such a drama queen

Drama queen my butt, you prove it that the left only cares about themselves and not some Bible thumper in Oklahoma..


You sound like Bill Maher last night bitching why Wyoming is even a state and gets two senators .


.

I don't care for any bible thumpers and why oh why does Wyoming get 2 Senators? They should get one, and CA take the second. They are overly represented.

Because big states were not supposed to be able to push little states around. It was part of the deal from the beginning.

 

[Unkotare]

Have you actually read the Constitution?
Most is information setting up the three branches of Government. The bill of rights is critical to good citizenship....the rest is of little value to the day to day realities of citizenship

Knowing the details of how a bill gets passed or how elections are conducted does not help most people

What most people need to know is which candidate best reflects their interests

Their best interest? I thought we were a community according to the left????

So only if it's in the best interest of the left and screw the law and screw the Constitution that makes America work somehow?

Such a drama queen

Drama queen my butt, you prove it that the left only cares about themselves and not some Bible thumper in Oklahoma..


You sound like Bill Maher last night bitching why Wyoming is even a state and gets two senators .


.

I don't care for any bible thumpers and why oh why does Wyoming get 2 Senators? They should get one, and CA take the second. They are overly represented.

Because big states were not supposed to be able to push little states around. It was part of the deal from the beginning.

You would think that anyone with even a rudimentary education would know that.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice.

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher.

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it.

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw.

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.

Nope. You believe I did. There's a difference.

My son was made to drill the first ten Constitutional amendments when he was nine. They had no meaning to his real life, but he had to memorize them word for word regardless, and did.

That was twenty years ago. He can still rattle them off.

In any event, the lack of memorization of facts in current educational practices and the dependence upon various machines to replace the brain is largely to blame for the public system turning out hordes of barely functional idiots.

When I was in school (old man mantra) the United States was ranked first in education in the world. Now, we are twenty-seventh. The product produced with all of these Critical Thinking Skills and Project Based Education seems to have completely faceplanted. One cannot think critically without something in one's head about which to critically think.

In any event, it was most unwise to replace American History and Civics with multicultural, gender and diversity studies. The results are quite clear.

Your son can probably rattle that off because he was raised in a household where the Constitution was valued and honored; where this was part of who he was all around him. IOW it resonated with him. That's why he retained it for so many years.

I totally agree that children must be taught the basics in a very "basic" way, NOT with technology. I completely agree that you cannot think critically if you have nothing to think critically ABOUT. You cannot construct thinking from no knowledge. Totally agree there.

But we cannot end anymore with regurgitated facts. Google can give you that. Regurgitated facts is not LEARNING, as the educators in this thread are telling you--as you yourself said, when you said you can remember high school parties and song lyrics but not other things. I am explaining to you WHY you can. Good teachers know how to connect learning with THOSE things so kids can retain knowledge better. And actually learn.

And mostly, conservatives sneer and snort and it and want kids to go back to rote memorization as not only a launching pad to learning, but as the end-all.

It's just bad practice.

Conservatives do not do education well. They just don't

Memorizing the Bill of Rights, Preamble to the Constitution or Gettysburg Address means nothing without understanding the overarching meaning and relevance to our society

Most posters on this board still don’t understand the meaning of Freedom of Speech

 

[CHAZBUKOWSKI]

What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.

Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies.

While many Americans aren’t shy when it comes to expressing their opinion regarding the controversy surrounding US Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, only 43 percent knew the actual number of justices (nine) that protect the nation’s constitution.

Some 72 percent failed to correctly identify the 13 original states from a list of options offered to them in the multiple-choice questions.

The problem with basic civic knowledge seems to be more acute for those aged 45 and under, with only 19 percent passing the mock test. Those 65 years and older, however, managed to answer the questions with 74-percent success rate.

By the time I reached my junior year in high school, I’d had at least 5 classes about American history and government. Why is it no longer important in our education system?

More of this disgusting stuff @ ‘Woefully uninformed’: 81% of Americans under 45 would fail basic ‘US citizenship test’

Americans Have Almost Entirely Forgotten Their History @ Americans Have Almost Entirely Forgotten Their History

Meh. In the grand schemes of things, I am not losing sleep over this. We are putting increased pressure on our school systems to heavily emphasize the basics, specifically ELA and math, and everything else gets tossed into the ring where available. People get upset when it is a subject they feel strongly about, whether it be music, U.S. History, Earth science, or whatever, but there is only so much time in the school day, so if the kids are not being hammered incessantly about history dates, I am no overly concerned. Not to mention, this is really not an indicator of the failing of the public school systems, because this poll is not about students, but about Americans, in general. Not really sure how the school system is to blame for a 40 year old adult not remembering something he was likely taught 25 years previously.

And, before one gets their undies in a bunch, I am a history buff, and, in all likelihood, easily pass the citizenship test.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later.

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.

I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days. Why? Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. Why? Repetition.

Facts are the same way. You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.

Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher.

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it.

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw.

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.

Nope. You believe I did. There's a difference.

My son was made to drill the first ten Constitutional amendments when he was nine. They had no meaning to his real life, but he had to memorize them word for word regardless, and did.

That was twenty years ago. He can still rattle them off.

In any event, the lack of memorization of facts in current educational practices and the dependence upon various machines to replace the brain is largely to blame for the public system turning out hordes of barely functional idiots.

When I was in school (old man mantra) the United States was ranked first in education in the world. Now, we are twenty-seventh. The product produced with all of these Critical Thinking Skills and Project Based Education seems to have completely faceplanted. One cannot think critically without something in one's head about which to critically think.

In any event, it was most unwise to replace American History and Civics with multicultural, gender and diversity studies. The results are quite clear.

Your son can probably rattle that off because he was raised in a household where the Constitution was valued and honored; where this was part of who he was all around him. IOW it resonated with him. That's why he retained it for so many years.

I totally agree that children must be taught the basics in a very "basic" way, NOT with technology. I completely agree that you cannot think critically if you have nothing to think critically ABOUT. You cannot construct thinking from no knowledge. Totally agree there.

But we cannot end anymore with regurgitated facts. Google can give you that. Regurgitated facts is not LEARNING, as the educators in this thread are telling you--as you yourself said, when you said you can remember high school parties and song lyrics but not other things. I am explaining to you WHY you can. Good teachers know how to connect learning with THOSE things so kids can retain knowledge better. And actually learn.

And mostly, conservatives sneer and snort and it and want kids to go back to rote memorization as not only a launching pad to learning, but as the end-all.

It's just bad practice.

Conservatives do not do education well. They just don't

Memorizing the Bill of Rights, Preamble to the Constitution or Gettysburg Address means nothing without understanding the overarching meaning and relevance to our society

Most posters on this board still don’t understand the meaning of Freedom of Speech

Don't try to pin your own failings on others to assuage your own guilt.

 

[CHAZBUKOWSKI]

I took one of their 24-question tests. To say it was simple would be a massive understatement. That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind. The education system is a DISASTER.

Sorry your education failed you.

 

[DrLove]

Yeah, even though 'RT' is Putin's propaganda arm and Daily Signal is extreme right wing Daily Signal - Media Bias/Fact Check - I have seen other studies with similar results and it's a disturbing trend.
To my best recollection, my daughter only had one government class in high school and pretty sure only one semester.
By that time due to budget cuts they'd also eliminated PE, which majorly pissed me off.
Both these things need to be restored or we're gonna end up with an Idiocracy run by obese, low information clowns.
Oh wait