A bit more of your merciful god.

[Meriweather]

Everything

You know that is incorrect. Not only can they not explain 'everything' what they can 'exclaim' is often what is surmised. Further, it is 'explained' by those who have not experienced the phenomenon, and a neurologist who did has a different take.

Don't you love it when those who have theory tell the rest of us what is? Happens all the time in my career choice. Legislatures decide what must be best in the schoolroom based on theory and leave teachers to wade through the reality with hands tied by theories.

As I said, no need to continue this train of thought. You are satisfied that "everything" has been explained medically. As Hamlet noted all those years ago, "There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy [science]."

 

[hadit]

That is incorrect. Near death experiences also happen to people with 0 brain activity. Scientific evidence can "suggest a possibility", which you took the liberty of changing into a medical fact in your second sentence. But, it is not. It is a guess.

The soul is eternal. That's what God says unequivocally. He doesn't suggest it.
“Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”

Science changes. Jesus does not:
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and forever.

In addition, they have seen things like people in other rooms, objects on the roof, etc. when out of their bodies that would have been impossible for them to have seen.

 

[Blues Man]

You know that is incorrect. Not only can they not explain 'everything' what they can 'exclaim' is often what is surmised. Further, it is 'explained' by those who have not experienced the phenomenon, and a neurologist who did has a different take.

Don't you love it when those who have theory tell the rest of us what is? Happens all the time in my career choice. Legislatures decide what must be best in the schoolroom based on theory and leave teachers to wade through the reality with hands tied by theories.

As I said, no need to continue this train of thought. You are satisfied that "everything" has been explained medically. As Hamlet noted all those years ago, "There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy [science]."

Science and philosophy are not the same thing.

Anyone can experience some type of euphoria and say the cause was some mystical interaction with the spirit world. That in no way means the cause of that originates from some other realm.

We do not fully understand the brain and we may not ever fully understand it but that which we do not understand does not need to be explained my mysticism.

 

[Blues Man]

In addition, they have seen things like people in other rooms, objects on the roof, etc. when out of their bodies that would have been impossible for them to have seen.

Not really.

When i was 18 I was mugged and seriously injured. While being put under anesthesia I had an out of body experience.

I don't attribute that to anything but the drugs and my trauma.

 

[hadit]

Not really.

When i was 18 I was mugged and seriously injured. While being put under anesthesia I had an out of body experience.

I don't attribute that to anything but the drugs and my trauma.

Uh, yes, others have. Whether you did or not doesn't change that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Science and philosophy are not the same thing.

Anyone can experience some type of euphoria and say the cause was some mystical interaction with the spirit world. That in no way means the cause of that originates from some other realm.

We do not fully understand the brain and we may not ever fully understand it but that which we do not understand does not need to be explained my mysticism.

We do not fully understand the brain and we may not ever fully understand it but that which we do not understand does not need to be explained my mysticism.

your ignorance of life -

expressed solely by metaphysical faunal physiology is beyond boring.

 

[Blues Man]

Uh, yes, others have. Whether you did or not doesn't change that.

Just because they attribute the experience to some sort of spiritual interaction doesn't mean that they are correct in that assumption.

 

[Blues Man]

your ignorance of life -

View attachment 620420

expressed solely by metaphysical faunal physiology is beyond boring.

There is no metaphysical fauna physiology

 

[Meriweather]

Just because they attribute the experience to some sort of spiritual interaction doesn't mean that they are correct in that assumption.

Really. Testimony now equates to "assumption"? Defense attorneys will be elated to hear this.

Out of body experiences do not necessarily include spiritual interactions. Spiritual interactions don't necessarily include out of body experiences.

 

[Blues Man]

Really. Testimony now equates to "assumption"? Defense attorneys will be elated to hear this.

Out of body experiences do not necessarily include spiritual interactions. Spiritual interactions don't necessarily include out of body experiences.

When no other proof but the mystical is provided and the mystical cannot be proven to exist it is by definition an assumption not based on evidence

Out of body experiences happen in the head. It is so ridiculously easy to fool the human senses that mystical explanations aren't needed at all.

 

[Meriweather]

It is so ridiculously easy to fool the human senses that mystical explanations aren't needed at all.

Good to know. When I notice my cherry tree in bloom, and I tell it is in bloom, you will simply assume my senses are being fooled. If I relate a dream I had, again my senses being fooled. We are all simply wandering around this planet as fools being fooled, because clearly, based on your "science" we cannot trust anyone to distinguish between reality, dream, hallucination, imagination, spiritual experience, etc. But you, with your great insights know, absolutely, it is all imagination or senses being fooled. No other conclusion possible.

 

[Blues Man]

Good to know. When I notice my cherry tree in bloom, and I tell it is in bloom, you will simply assume my senses are being fooled. If I relate a dream I had, again my senses being fooled. We are all simply wandering around this planet as fools being fooled, because clearly, based on your "science" we cannot trust anyone to distinguish between reality, dream, hallucination, imagination, spiritual experience, etc. But you, with your great insights know, absolutely, it is all imagination or senses being fooled. No other conclusion possible.

Applying an instance of the senses being fooled to all instances of sensory perception is ludicrous.

I can make you think a rubber hand is actually your hand but that does not imply in any way that you will think every rubber hand you see is your hand.

 

[Meriweather]

Applying an instance of the senses being fooled to all instances of sensory perception is ludicrous.

You got my point. And not all testimonies of spiritual interactions are senses being fooled. I agree that It does not rule out sense are sometimes fooled. For example, both my dad and sister had reactions after surgery to the anesthesia. Both immediately identified 'hallucination'. My sister described dancing girls at the foot of her bed. Dad walked into the family room and saw a red Lamborghini waiting for him to get in and drive off.

Simply because someone hallucinates dancing girls or a car, does not mean there are no dancing girls or cars. Same with spiritual beings. Their reality does not prevent hallucinations any more than a car's reality prevents hallucinations.

 

[hadit]

Just because they attribute the experience to some sort of spiritual interaction doesn't mean that they are correct in that assumption.

What else are they supposed to attribute it to when they see things that are impossible for them to have seen with their physical eyes?

 

[BreezeWood]

There is no metaphysical fauna physiology

really and you have the location of where physiology disappears to when its spiritual content is removed or where physiology came from when it first appears on Earths surface as a living being ...

fauna and flora together share the same metaphysical physiological origin with their individual spiritual component unique to each individual - than robot b m - or their physical presence will disappear into the atmosphere if either cease to function.

... physiology is a metaphysical substance not native to planet Earth.

 

[The Irish Ram]

And how do you know this?

HAve you ever talked to a person with zero brain activity and they told you?

And no one has ever heard any god say the soul was eternal. What you have is a man telling you what he thinks a god said.

I had a NDE in an ambulance when I was a kid. And having never been conscious during the trip, I was able to tell my Dad things about the trip that made him shudder to think I came that close to leaving.
But the most famous case was that of a woman in surgery who had to have 0 brain activity, none, for them to be able to navigate through her brain to reach a tumor. She watched the whole surgery out of body and was able to tell the doctor what song he sang, described the tools he used, and even told him the color of the scrubs he had on. The doctor not only can't explain it medically, he remains baffled. Oxygen deprivation of cells may produce a tunnel affect,or a bright light, or a nightmare of hell, but what baffles doctors is that starving cells can't produce the reality of the activity in a room.
There was a particularly neat part of that story. She said the surgeon had on blue scrubs. She had never seen blue. She had been blind since birth.

And man didn't write that book. We aren't that smart. And it is too complex.

Blues,
Sometimes we just have to admit that there's more to life than just the tangible. That man isn't as smart as he thinks he is. That we were meant for something more.
There is a love out there waiting to be bestowed upon you that is so great we humans don't have the capacity to fully understand it. We gave it it's own name. Agape.
Come get some...

 

[Blues Man]

You got my point. And not all testimonies of spiritual interactions are senses being fooled. I agree that It does not rule out sense are sometimes fooled. For example, both my dad and sister had reactions after surgery to the anesthesia. Both immediately identified 'hallucination'. My sister described dancing girls at the foot of her bed. Dad walked into the family room and saw a red Lamborghini waiting for him to get in and drive off.

Simply because someone hallucinates dancing girls or a car, does not mean there are no dancing girls or cars. Same with spiritual beings. Their reality does not prevent hallucinations any more than a car's reality prevents hallucinations.

What you call spiritual I call neural

There is absolutely no evidence of another separate realm that interacts with our universe

And by definition hallucinations are not actual objects.

But we do know that red spots cars actually exist and can prove they exist.

We have no such proof of spiritual beings

 

[Blues Man]

I had a NDE in an ambulance when I was a kid. And having never been conscious during the trip, I was able to tell my Dad things about the trip that made him shudder to think I came that close to leaving.
But the most famous case was that of a woman in surgery who had to have 0 brain activity, none, for them to be able to navigate through her brain to reach a tumor. She watched the whole surgery out of body and was able to tell the doctor what song he sang, described the tools he used, and even told him the color of the scrubs he had on. The doctor not only can't explain it medically, he remains baffled. Oxygen deprivation of cells may produce a tunnel affect,or a bright light, or a nightmare of hell, but what baffles doctors is that starving cells can't produce the reality of the activity in a room.
There was a particularly neat part of that story. She said the surgeon had on blue scrubs. She had never seen blue. She had been blind since birth.

And man didn't write that book. We aren't that smart. And it is too complex.

Blues,
Sometimes we just have to admit that there's more to life than just the tangible. That man isn't as smart as he thinks he is. That we were meant for something more.
There is a love out there waiting to be bestowed upon you that is so great we humans don't have the capacity to fully understand it. We gave it it's own name. Agape.
Come get some...

So you were brain dead?

And out of body experiences are just a result of dissociation which can be caused by a variety of reasons. I've had one myself under anesthesia Anyone can envision a room from another angle simply by extrapolation.



There is more to the universe that we cannot perceive but that does not mean there is some other realm that routinely acts on this one. We can't perceive it because our own sensory system is lacking and because of that our minds cannot fill in the blanks. In fact we may not be able to ever understand large parts of our universe because we are simply incapable of the thought processes required.

The fact that we cannot explain everything leads us to try to fill in the gaps with other explanations. Gods and spirits are examples of those explanations

 

[Blues Man]

really and you have the location of where physiology disappears to when its spiritual content is removed or where physiology came from when it first appears on Earths surface as a living being ...

fauna and flora together share the same metaphysical physiological origin with their individual spiritual component unique to each individual - than robot b m - or their physical presence will disappear into the atmosphere if either cease to function.

... physiology is a metaphysical substance not native to planet Earth.

There is no spiritual content

 

[Meriweather]

What you call spiritual I call neural

The difference is that I understand both. What is actually neural, I call neural. What is spiritual, I call spiritual. I find no need to mix the two. But then those of us who are not a fan of "God did it" are not fans of "Neurology did it" either. Each NDE event stands on its own. Some are even made up, and it usually easy to spot the ones that are. Some can be explained by neurology, we agree there. Some travel beyond both being made up and neurology and into the spiritual realm.

You don't believe in the spiritual, so your thinking ends at neurology. And that's fine. As you have pointed out, humans are limited beings. You might consider that because we are not identical, limitations vary from person to person. It is good to recognize our own limitations, and it is equally good not to foist our own limitations onto others.