A Few Comments about Cruz and Rubio

[OKTexas]

There is definitely the perception by many (including me) that Rubio has peanut sized balls. He would probably be ok as President, but you never know. He does little to inspire confidence.

I am still supporting Cruz. He is very intelligent and stands on principle. I like that he is ideological and opposed to being a populist who sways with the breeze. As an ideologue you can predict how he will act on a variety of thing last and can hold him accountable. Of all the candidates, Republicans and Democrats, he is the most logical and analytical in his positions. He can explain what he wants to do, why he wants to do it, how he is going to do it, and what the results will be. He is very lawyerly in his approach. To me, he employs a rational and well thought out approach that none of the other candidates seem to have. The rest appear to merely stake out their positions based on what they perceive will garner the most popular support.

Cruz is indeed ideological. The problem is that he's on the far right. Let's say that he gets the nomination. It's difficult to imagine anybody from the left or a vast majority of the independent supporting Cruz. Are you concerned that he might not be able to defeat Clinton or Sanders in the general election?

Don't you find it a bit strange that someone who believes in the Constitution and the values of the majority of Americans is considered an extremest?

By "believing in the Constitution", you actually mean believing in your interpretation of the constitution. Now we have a problem: our interpretation do not agree! Therefore, if your interpretation is "extreme", you will be called an extremest!
Also, how do you know that the conservative values Cruz defends are the values of the majority of Americans? Any evidence? Thoughts?

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.

Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.
If only we can unify our interpretation of the Constitution by writing it on paper... I know you didn't mean it, lol.
Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.
Really? Then why do we have so many liberals even on this forum?

It's already been written, the words mean exactly what they did when they were written, regardless if it's the original document or the more modern amendments. The founders said the Constitution was written so the lowliest farmer could understand it. There was never a question as to it's meaning until lawyers started parsing words and engaging in games of semantics.

If I knew why people act in the opposite manner from the values they claim to hold and try to force those false values on the rest of us, I could be a very rich man. All I can do is revert to the Bible, where it says to beware of false prophets. Most major religions have similar warnings.

 

[BluesLegend]

Rubio - He isn't ready for the big chair he needs more experience, he should go be a governor for a while.

Cruz - He's supposed to have conservative values and principles yet he behaves like a liberal with no values or principles taking cheap shots at his opponents, lying and being intentionally dishonest. That's not a conservative.

 

[Illya. K. Makrus]

Generally, Cruz himself is a great definition of "very conservative". I'm sure a lot of people disagree with Cruz on many issues (especially social issues). For example, gay rights, abortion, etc. Cruz may have constitutional support in some of those issues, however, a lot of the issues remain to be debated. Conservatism, after all, is just a set of beliefs held by a portion of the people in our country. I do not think every conservative belief is appropriate for our country, or justifiable by the constitution.

On which of the issues you listed has the secular left been willing to compromise and negotiate? Where have they shown an interest in having an honest debate and reaching a mutual agreement? You need to try and understand what the liberal progressive agenda is all about. There is no compromise. There is no middle ground. There is not a point at which they are going to be satisfied and content that we have resolved the issues... it is a never-ending push for MORE. They beat weak minded people like you down... they make you think we can capitulate a little and everything will be okay... they take what you surrender and then they start immediately to push further. You will NEVER appease them.

Cruz stands for conservative constitutional original principles which simply do not change with the times. The principles of our constitution are as relevant today as they ever have been.

I happen to believe that in a country with diversified ideas, the only way to deal with a lot of issues is to make good deals. Sometimes we stick with what we want, sometimes we BOTH need to back down. Always acting like a rock may look good, but it doesn't solve any problem.

And this is a recipe for failure when dealing with radical liberal progressives. You can't make deals with them. They will take everything you give them and then immediately begin to press for what they didn't get. They have no intention of backing down... they never have... it's the epitome of what makes them liberal progressives... they are constantly marching forward with their agenda. The more you give in, the more ammunition they have to use against you, as you've admitted they were right and their complaint legitimate. If you want a real-world example, look at this "living wage" issue... it's been going on for 83 years. Are they satisfied? Hell no! They never will be!

There you go. No more comments because we've discussed this for long enough, and there's nothing new and interesting. lol.

No, there is nothing new or interesting because you remain stubbornly mired in your own illogical view that you cannot support with facts. You just continue to repeat the same propaganda you've been fed by the Establishment who are out to destroy Ted Cruz. So be it! That's what you're going to do no matter what anyone says or how much the dispel your argument.

I think you get a point in accusing the media of working for the establishment. However, frauds are out, period. The MSM may have whatever intention, but facts are facts. The voters will decide whether Cruz is responsible.

BTW, it seems to me that we have quite different expectations from this thing. Your want to change what others think (particularly on Cruz), while I expect only to share my views and to understand others'. You've taken a quite challenging task through a not-so-efficient channel, "boss"...

Well it looks like the voters are deciding based on the propaganda being fed to them by the media who is in the tank for the establishment. Damn straight I want to change what people think of Cruz because it's all based on lies and propaganda. I put out the challenge weeks ago for someone to show an example of a direct lie that Cruz has told... all I got was a link to a propaganda site with a list of "half-truths" where he may have gotten some details wrong on a few things but mostly a list of things other people have done or said and it's pinned on Cruz. Meanwhile, Trump and Rubio stand there and flat out lie through their teeth on things they've said that we have video evidence of them saying directly.

On which of the issues you listed has the secular left been willing to compromise and negotiate? Where have they shown an interest in having an honest debate and reaching a mutual agreement? You need to try and understand what the liberal progressive agenda is all about. There is no compromise. There is no middle ground. There is not a point at which they are going to be satisfied and content that we have resolved the issues... it is a never-ending push for MORE. They beat weak minded people like you down... they make you think we can capitulate a little and everything will be okay... they take what you surrender and then they start immediately to push further. You will NEVER appease them.

Cruz stands for conservative constitutional original principles which simply do not change with the times. The principles of our constitution are as relevant today as they ever have been.
Supporters are really fundamentally similar to their candidate (or the candidate as in their mind)! This is amazing!
Fortunately for you, I don't have Mr. Trump's "not-so-nice" temperament, so I will just point out that I'm not "weak-minded".

And this is a recipe for failure when dealing with radical liberal progressives. You can't make deals with them. They will take everything you give them and then immediately begin to press for what they didn't get. They have no intention of backing down... they never have... it's the epitome of what makes them liberal progressives... they are constantly marching forward with their agenda. The more you give in, the more ammunition they have to use against you, as you've admitted they were right and their complaint legitimate. If you want a real-world example, look at this "living wage" issue... it's been going on for 83 years. Are they satisfied? Hell no! They never will be!
That's scary! You are right, no compromise, no negotiation with these bad bad progressives!
Should I refrain myself from telling you that the above statement is just kidding?

No, there is nothing new or interesting because you remain stubbornly mired in your own illogical view that you cannot support with facts. You just continue to repeat the same propaganda you've been fed by the Establishment who are out to destroy Ted Cruz. So be it! That's what you're going to do no matter what anyone says or how much the dispel your argument.
I believe we had similar conversation in the other thread: obviously we still disagree. That's fine for me though...

Well it looks like the voters are deciding based on the propaganda being fed to them by the media who is in the tank for the establishment. Damn straight I want to change what people think of Cruz because it's all based on lies and propaganda. I put out the challenge weeks ago for someone to show an example of a direct lie that Cruz has told... all I got was a link to a propaganda site with a list of "half-truths" where he may have gotten some details wrong on a few things but mostly a list of things other people have done or said and it's pinned on Cruz. Meanwhile, Trump and Rubio stand there and flat out lie through their teeth on things they've said that we have video evidence of them saying directly.
All right, I was joking with you because I realize you want to change others' mind by posting on a forum
It's not that I don't value your ideas or something...

Seriously, here's my suggestion, if you have time, join the Cruz campaign (maybe a volunteer?) or do something really effective for your candidate. I'm afraid you don't have much time to do it though. Persuading people on a forum is really inefficient. What you can do here is to understand how others think and why they think so (obviously there are a lot of people with different ideas here)... Believe me, even a face to face conversation with a neighbor is much more effective. g.n.

P.S. You are pink because someone told me RED is reserved for USMB mods...

 

[Illya. K. Makrus]

Cruz is indeed ideological. The problem is that he's on the far right. Let's say that he gets the nomination. It's difficult to imagine anybody from the left or a vast majority of the independent supporting Cruz. Are you concerned that he might not be able to defeat Clinton or Sanders in the general election?

Don't you find it a bit strange that someone who believes in the Constitution and the values of the majority of Americans is considered an extremest?

By "believing in the Constitution", you actually mean believing in your interpretation of the constitution. Now we have a problem: our interpretation do not agree! Therefore, if your interpretation is "extreme", you will be called an extremest!
Also, how do you know that the conservative values Cruz defends are the values of the majority of Americans? Any evidence? Thoughts?

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.

Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.
If only we can unify our interpretation of the Constitution by writing it on paper... I know you didn't mean it, lol.
Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.
Really? Then why do we have so many liberals even on this forum?

It's already been written, the words mean exactly what they did when they were written, regardless if it's the original document or the more modern amendments. The founders said the Constitution was written so the lowliest farmer could understand it. There was never a question as to it's meaning until lawyers started parsing words and engaging in games of semantics.

If I knew why people act in the opposite manner from the values they claim to hold and try to force those false values on the rest of us, I could be a very rich man. All I can do is revert to the Bible, where it says to beware of false prophets. Most major religions have similar warnings.

Sadly, once the "evil" lawyers started "parsing words and engaging in games of semantics", there is no way for a peasant to "understand" the constitution any more! Even the most experienced experts in laws (e.g. the Justices) do not agree on the meanings of our constitution...

 

[eagle1462010]

The Federalist #62

The internal effects of a mutable policy are still more calamitous. It poisons the blessing of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed?

 

[OKTexas]

Don't you find it a bit strange that someone who believes in the Constitution and the values of the majority of Americans is considered an extremest?

By "believing in the Constitution", you actually mean believing in your interpretation of the constitution. Now we have a problem: our interpretation do not agree! Therefore, if your interpretation is "extreme", you will be called an extremest!
Also, how do you know that the conservative values Cruz defends are the values of the majority of Americans? Any evidence? Thoughts?

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.

Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.
If only we can unify our interpretation of the Constitution by writing it on paper... I know you didn't mean it, lol.
Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.
Really? Then why do we have so many liberals even on this forum?

It's already been written, the words mean exactly what they did when they were written, regardless if it's the original document or the more modern amendments. The founders said the Constitution was written so the lowliest farmer could understand it. There was never a question as to it's meaning until lawyers started parsing words and engaging in games of semantics.

If I knew why people act in the opposite manner from the values they claim to hold and try to force those false values on the rest of us, I could be a very rich man. All I can do is revert to the Bible, where it says to beware of false prophets. Most major religions have similar warnings.

Sadly, once the "evil" lawyers started "parsing words and engaging in games of semantics", there is no way for a peasant to "understand" the constitution any more! Even the most experienced experts in laws (e.g. the Justices) do not agree on the meanings of our constitution...

The thing you have to understand, is the job of a judge is to apply the Constitution and laws, not interpret them, when they engage in interpretations their own biases come into play. Words on a piece of paper have a set meaning, all they need do is read. If you read Article 1, Section 8, it is one continuous sentence, it's not a thrown together bunch of independent words or phrases the way the lawyers try to read it. It is also the most important section in the Constitution, it's defines 90+% of the federal governments powers.

 

[Illya. K. Makrus]

By "believing in the Constitution", you actually mean believing in your interpretation of the constitution. Now we have a problem: our interpretation do not agree! Therefore, if your interpretation is "extreme", you will be called an extremest!
Also, how do you know that the conservative values Cruz defends are the values of the majority of Americans? Any evidence? Thoughts?

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.

Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.

Wrong, I believe it means exactly what it says, as amended, no interpretation required. The law doesn't change based on opinion, that's why they write them down and not just pass them down person to person.
If only we can unify our interpretation of the Constitution by writing it on paper... I know you didn't mean it, lol.
Also 85% of Americans consider themselves religious, and hold values consistent with their religions, Cruz is no different.
Really? Then why do we have so many liberals even on this forum?

It's already been written, the words mean exactly what they did when they were written, regardless if it's the original document or the more modern amendments. The founders said the Constitution was written so the lowliest farmer could understand it. There was never a question as to it's meaning until lawyers started parsing words and engaging in games of semantics.

If I knew why people act in the opposite manner from the values they claim to hold and try to force those false values on the rest of us, I could be a very rich man. All I can do is revert to the Bible, where it says to beware of false prophets. Most major religions have similar warnings.

Sadly, once the "evil" lawyers started "parsing words and engaging in games of semantics", there is no way for a peasant to "understand" the constitution any more! Even the most experienced experts in laws (e.g. the Justices) do not agree on the meanings of our constitution...

The thing you have to understand, is the job of a judge is to apply the Constitution and laws, not interpret them, when they engage in interpretations their own biases come into play. Words on a piece of paper have a set meaning, all they need do is read. If you read Article 1, Section 8, it is one continuous sentence, it's not a thrown together bunch of independent words or phrases the way the lawyers try to read it. It is also the most important section in the Constitution, it's defines 90+% of the federal governments powers.

Here's a debate between Justice Scalia and Justice Breyer. Hope you like it!

 

[Boss]

Supporters are really fundamentally similar to their candidate (or the candidate as in their mind)! This is amazing!
Fortunately for you, I don't have Mr. Trump's "not-so-nice" temperament, so I will just point out that I'm not "weak-minded".

You also didn't answer my fucking questions! ...Just pointing THAT out!

Seriously, here's my suggestion, if you have time, join the Cruz campaign (maybe a volunteer?) or do something really effective for your candidate. I'm afraid you don't have much time to do it though. Persuading people on a forum is really inefficient. What you can do here is to understand how others think and why they think so (obviously there are a lot of people with different ideas here)... Believe me, even a face to face conversation with a neighbor is much more effective. g.n.

Well thanks for your advice but no amount of me supporting my candidate is going to change the sheep mentality of most Americans who are simply going to believe the narrative that "Cruz is a liar." It's being shouted by Trump, Rubio, their supporters, the media, the establishment and even the so-called "independents" such as yourself. Even though you can't give a single example of something the man has deliberately lied about. All you can do is twist and distort things into "lies" like some left-wing moron from MoveOn.org, and parade around with that baseless allegation 24/7.

So... Once again, the true CONSERVATIVE in the race is demonized and smeared by all the assorted elements who aren't interested in a smaller limited government that adheres to the founding principles. And like I've said in another thread... perhaps us constitutional originalists are wrong? Maybe our America is gone forever and we're simply destined to become some form of a Socialist nation whether we like it or not? Maybe we should just hang it up and forget ever returning to the principles and foundation set by the framers and just embrace this idiotic idea of Socialist Utopia? If there aren't enough people with the sense to stand up and fight for it, what are we to do?

 

[Boss]

By the way... If you will simply highlight the text from any post, you will get a little box that says "+quote/reply" The "+quote" is used to copy one of several quotes you plan to use, the "reply" copies that highlighted text into a quote box automatically. No need to use colors to highlight quotes.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It must be a conservative value to continually misrepresent the facts in an attempt to gain primary votes.

 

[Boss]

By "believing in the Constitution", you actually mean believing in your interpretation of the constitution. Now we have a problem: our interpretation do not agree!

But the Constitution is not some mystical document that no one really knows what it means! It took nearly 20 years to compose after many lengthy debates between all kinds of viewpoints and considerations. Every single word was carefully contemplated and crafted into a document which gave us a radically new form of government that had never been tried before. The supporting arguments for every article and every section is found in the Federalist Papers. The only "interpretation" that matters is what the Federalist Papers tell us is the original interpretation and meaning established by the framers. If it's not in there, it can't be shoehorned in through manipulation of language just because you're clever enough to twist and distort semantics.

 

[Iceweasel]

What concerns me most about Rubio is his "unusual reaction" against pressure. He sweats like a nervous kid, recites well-prepared debate responses like a robot, and melted down in an inexcusable way against Christie. All of these are clearly signs of weakness. To me, this is much worse than disagreement on certain political positions, and it cannot be corrected in a short period of time. I do not think that someone who failed to stand the pressure of a TV debate can be trusted as the president of the United States. If he can be destroyed by Christie in a Republican debate, what can I expect of him going against leaders such as Putin or Xi? Can I count on him to fight for the American people's best interest against pressure from the Congress and other countries around the world? Rubio might become a successful leader given more time, but now he just doesn't seem ready for the job.

Holy fuck.
You take a snippet out of someone's life, greatly exaggerated at that, and proceed to tar and feather them for it. Rubio did well except for those 4 too many times of repeating the line that got replayed thousands of times. He has a more conservative voting record that Reagan. Hillary has baggage the size of Mt. Everest, to me that matters much more.

People like you put more value on presentation and appearance, even though Rubio does very well almost always, people like you will choose to focus on the few times he didn't. Which candidate has performed flawlessly for the camera? None that I know of.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

This is a long distance dedication from Mr Donald Trump to Teddy Cruz

 

[Avatar4321]

Neither cruz or rubio has a chance against clinton, though rubio can pull in some gay votes and some bill clinton votes from people who like men who sleep with lots of women.

And yet both rubio and Cruz are crushing hillarynin a head to had and Trump is about fifty fifty win lose

 

[Wildman]

Neither cruz or rubio has a chance against clinton...

i have seen this said elsewhere, i do not see it, only the hardcore lefties are staunchly supporting her..., IF i were a demorat (and i thank GOD i am not!!!) i would not vote at all !!

 

[ptbw forever]

Generally, Cruz himself is a great definition of "very conservative". I'm sure a lot of people disagree with Cruz on many issues (especially social issues). For example, gay rights, abortion, etc. Cruz may have constitutional support in some of those issues, however, a lot of the issues remain to be debated. Conservatism, after all, is just a set of beliefs held by a portion of the people in our country. I do not think every conservative belief is appropriate for our country, or justifiable by the constitution.

On which of the issues you listed has the secular left been willing to compromise and negotiate? Where have they shown an interest in having an honest debate and reaching a mutual agreement? You need to try and understand what the liberal progressive agenda is all about. There is no compromise. There is no middle ground. There is not a point at which they are going to be satisfied and content that we have resolved the issues... it is a never-ending push for MORE. They beat weak minded people like you down... they make you think we can capitulate a little and everything will be okay... they take what you surrender and then they start immediately to push further. You will NEVER appease them.

Cruz stands for conservative constitutional original principles which simply do not change with the times. The principles of our constitution are as relevant today as they ever have been.

I happen to believe that in a country with diversified ideas, the only way to deal with a lot of issues is to make good deals. Sometimes we stick with what we want, sometimes we BOTH need to back down. Always acting like a rock may look good, but it doesn't solve any problem.

And this is a recipe for failure when dealing with radical liberal progressives. You can't make deals with them. They will take everything you give them and then immediately begin to press for what they didn't get. They have no intention of backing down... they never have... it's the epitome of what makes them liberal progressives... they are constantly marching forward with their agenda. The more you give in, the more ammunition they have to use against you, as you've admitted they were right and their complaint legitimate. If you want a real-world example, look at this "living wage" issue... it's been going on for 83 years. Are they satisfied? Hell no! They never will be!

There you go. No more comments because we've discussed this for long enough, and there's nothing new and interesting. lol.

No, there is nothing new or interesting because you remain stubbornly mired in your own illogical view that you cannot support with facts. You just continue to repeat the same propaganda you've been fed by the Establishment who are out to destroy Ted Cruz. So be it! That's what you're going to do no matter what anyone says or how much the dispel your argument.

I think you get a point in accusing the media of working for the establishment. However, frauds are out, period. The MSM may have whatever intention, but facts are facts. The voters will decide whether Cruz is responsible.

BTW, it seems to me that we have quite different expectations from this thing. Your want to change what others think (particularly on Cruz), while I expect only to share my views and to understand others'. You've taken a quite challenging task through a not-so-efficient channel, "boss"...

Well it looks like the voters are deciding based on the propaganda being fed to them by the media who is in the tank for the establishment. Damn straight I want to change what people think of Cruz because it's all based on lies and propaganda. I put out the challenge weeks ago for someone to show an example of a direct lie that Cruz has told... all I got was a link to a propaganda site with a list of "half-truths" where he may have gotten some details wrong on a few things but mostly a list of things other people have done or said and it's pinned on Cruz. Meanwhile, Trump and Rubio stand there and flat out lie through their teeth on things they've said that we have video evidence of them saying directly.

This is all true, but the reality is that the Neo-liberals can only be destroyed from the left.

Cruz cannot win because no matter what he does because Neo-liberals in the media and the government will lie about what he does or what he did, use those accumulated lies to throw him out of him office and use the changing demographics to permanently keep Republicans out. Trump can win because he agrees or partially agrees with the left on everything they claim matters while also agreeing with the right and alt-right on pretty much everything they absolutely need him to.
Trump is both locking the left in place(so much for time magazine banning the term "illegal immigrant", now the media uses the term "illegal alien" with impunity, just like they used to do during the Bush administration and before)and keeping the right on message with their strongest issues(immigration, military and gun rights). The only way to destroy "progressivism" is locking them in place and then destroying the paths that they will use to further their agenda before they use them, a humble Christian Libertarian type cannot do that, it has to be a leftist.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[The Breeze]

Tyrone the meme, lol.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Tyrone the meme, lol.

the breeze ' a run of the mill Right wing douche" who has nothing to say but has to say something...

 

[Wildman]

The last thing America needs is conservative 'values.'

the last thing America needs is people like you who HATE America!!