A Hawaii woman got 3 months in prison sentence just for taking classified docs to her hotel room...will Trump get 3 WEEKS in prison?

[meaner gene]

Nah, Trump will never cut a deal and I believe he walks because that idiot could fall into a pile of shit and still smell like Roses!

Trump cut a deal with Trump University.

 

[Funzo Hoss]

No.... Trump declassified all of the documents.... I don't care what libs say... he didn't have to ask a judge if he could and he didn't have to run it by Pelosi.... he has the right to declassify and not tell a soul.... Trump was the president of the United States not some Parish Counselman....

Even though there is an official process for this declassification is irrelevant. The documents are not allowed to be moved from government property

 

[meaner gene]

He may have only declassified the redacted versions due to names and techniques..... I really don't know... but I do know this ain't going anywhere....

Suddenly you went from the president can declassify ANYTHING, to Trump only declassifying property redacted (and downgraded) documents.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Trump cut a deal with Trump University.

Meh, no Prison time at all and he has paid fines in the past.

He ain’t cutting a deal over this.

 

[meaner gene]

Or you may be wrong... you may have gotten your information from a bad source.....

The 2nd circuit court said even a president has to follow procedures in order to have his commands have any effect.

Just saying it, or commanding it, has no recognition in law. Just like in crimes of intention, there has to be a predicate act indicating an actual intention

See 2nd circuit 18-2122 New York Times vs Central Intelligence Agency

https://cases.justia.com/federal/appellate-courts/ca2/18-2112/18-2112-2020-07-09.pdf?ts=1594303207

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The tapes were ruled to be Clintons personal property, and were properly segregated from his presidential records.
Obama's papers were under the possession of the National Archives that sent them to Chicago.

You should check that your talking points have all been refuted long agol

I'm sure the FBI as always looking out for the Clintons

 

[meaner gene]

Even though there is an official process for this declassification is irrelevant. The documents are not allowed to be moved from government property

They concentrate on the documents being "declassified" because that was Trump concern of having classified documents in his possession. But they gloss over that Trump had stolen property in his possession.

Approximately 11,000 counts of stolen Presidential Records.

 

[meaner gene]

And for those who want to draw a parallel to the documents being like library books people borrow.

If somebody borrows a book and doesn't return it on time, they have faced fines, arrest and imprisonment.

Jail time for overdue library books?

publiclibraries.com

Jail time for overdue library books?

Other known cases of this include two women in Baytown, Texas who were arrested in 2006 and 2010 when they were stopped for traffic violation ... these women had a warrant for outstanding library fines, he had no choice but to arrest them.

In 2011, a man in Newtown, Iowa served a little over a week in jail for failing to return 6 CDs and 11 library books, resulting in over $770 in overdue fines.

 

[Seymour Flops]

This is where you're wrong, and wrong again.

The burden of proof of when Trump gave that order is upon Trump. There has to be a date such a policy began on. And only Trump can establish when the policy started, and who he informed to carry it out.

How did the burden of proof shift from the prosecutor to the target? They haven't even indicted him for anything, and grand juries have the reputation that they will indict a ham sandwich if the prosecutors tell them to.

In the incredibly unlikely case that they do indict him, they will have the burden of proof. If even a single person testifies that they heard Trump declassify the documents, case over. If Trump takes the stand and says one sentence, "I declassified the documents," case over. The prosecution will only be able to cross examine him on that one statement. What will they say? "Did you really?, Huh? Are you sure? Liar says what? Did you?" until even the bluest of judges calls them for badgering the witness?

A case like that would hinge on proving a negative, which is a logical impossibility. That's why the case never gets indicted.

I hate for you to hear it from me, but the staged photo will be the sum total of all the DNC/DOJ/FBI gets out of this one. Minus whatever use they are making of Melania's panties.

Hey, did you ever answer why you think they took Melania's panties?

And you're wrong about no action is needed by his staff. Every presidential action, order, or command has to be carried out by members of his administration or staff.

Trump can't even get a can of diet coke, without a member of the staff bringing it to him.

I hope you're kidding.

Trumps famous order to "take me to the capitol" is an example of orders that don't take effect, until his staff carries them out. And his order to take him to the capitol is a perfect example of his staff not carrying it out. Hence Trump never visited the capitol

So, is your point that Trump did order the declassification, but his staff refused to "carry it out," so the documents were not de-classified?

First of all, that is counter-factual. The GSA took those documents to Mar-a-Lago. That is the staff carrying out Trump's order. If they were not declassified, they could not legally have done that. Second of all, if Trump says "these documents are declassified," and every single staffer in earshot says "Nu-Uh!" guess what? The documents are declassified.

 

[Rambunctious]

The 2nd circuit court said

Who cares what they say about this... look.... Biden can do anything he wants and you guys don't say boo.... so you can just sit down and relax... what's good for the goose is just fine for the gander.....

Now we hear through court documents that it was indeed Biden that set the raid in motion... so he lied to all of us again..... so the 2nd circuit court can go and F themselves....

This was just like when Obama had surveillance placed into Trump's NY office... illegal as hell... all Joe is trying to do is to take out his main opponent... even you should be disgusted....

 

[Seymour Flops]

They concentrate on the documents being "declassified" because that was Trump concern of having classified documents in his possession. But they gloss over that Trump had stolen property in his possession.

Approximately 11,000 counts of stolen Presidential Records.

Actually, it is the TDS folks who have switched to the "stolen property" narrative, after the DNC/DOJ/FBI made such a big deal out of "documents with classification marks" (not "classified documents"), and it played out.

 

[Seymour Flops]

And for those who want to draw a parallel to the documents being like library books people borrow.

If somebody borrows a book and doesn't return it on time, they have faced fines, arrest and imprisonment.

Jail time for overdue library books?

publiclibraries.com

Jail time for overdue library books?

Other known cases of this include two women in Baytown, Texas who were arrested in 2006 and 2010 when they were stopped for traffic violation ... these women had a warrant for outstanding library fines, he had no choice but to arrest them.

In 2011, a man in Newtown, Iowa served a little over a week in jail for failing to return 6 CDs and 11 library books, resulting in over $770 in overdue fines.

If I were a Brit, I'd say that you've gone 'round the bend with that one.

 

[ABikerSailor]

An Enlisted Sailor got one year in prison for taking non classified pictures of his work area aboard a nuclear submarine but Crooked Hillary ran a scam government influence peddling operation from her home server with tens of thousands of classified documents and she was let off the hook by The Worthless Negro's Administration because she was the Democrat Party's Presidential candidate.

Hate to tell you, but EVERYTHING onboard a submarine is classified. You have to have at least a Confidential to even board one. The only people I can think of that don't require a clearance before boarding would be politicians, and even then, they are guided and closely watched.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Not according to the expert in the matter who was on CNN this morning.... He has advised presidents on both sides of the isle in this very procedure....
He said people who are suggesting a president has to jump through hoops to declassify documents are just plain wrong.....
Now if documents are requested from the archives the president must return them but not at the point of a gun in a home or office raid.....
Highly inappropriate he said....

Never said that the president has to jump through hoops. He says it's declassified, and then his staff are the ones jumping through the hoops to say what the material was, the date it was declassified, and sending out the memos/messages to the appropriate places to let others know it was declassified. Yes, the president can declassify anything they want, never said anything else, but I also stated that a record MUST be made stating that the classified material has been declassified. No memo, no declassification.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If Trump declassified them, it would have made the news. Trump declassified crossfire hurricane documents, and that made the news. Such a large mass of documents being declassified would not have been able to be kept quiet.

Exactly. If Trump actually did declassify the documents, his staff would have had to send out a memo stating what the material was, the date it was declassified, and the reason for the declassification. If there was no memo/message sent, the documents are still considered classified.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Trump wanted it out that he declassified the Crossfire Hurricane documents... the point the guy made on CNN is he doesn't have to tell anyone... I didn't know that until I heard this guy say it... and he was introduced as an advisor to outgoing presidents... Maybe Trump should have hired this guy...lol

Those classified documents don't exist only in Trumps office/desk. Other places (agencies/military commands) have copies of the material as well, and they must be notified that they have been declassified, otherwise, they will continue to treat the material as classified. No memo, no declassification. And no, Trump isn't the one who sends out the memo, that is done by his staff. YES, Trump has to tell people what he has declassified.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

To this day, he hasn’t said he declassified anything.

Bwaaahahhaaaa.....He doesnt have to say shit to you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Prove he never said it while president.

There is no "carrying out" of such an order. If Trump says, I'm taking these to my residence, so I'm declassifying them," no action is needed by his staff.

This is the folly that libs have bought into since we saw Trump underlings testifying to congress that in their opinion of Trump did not follow their guidance. The president is the president, he doesn't need permission from his staff to carry out his constitutional powers. Right now, I'm talking about Joe Biden, and it is as true for him as it was for Trump.

Anyway, I'll await the proof that Trump never said it while president.

The only problem with your scenario is that the classified material is held at other places than just Trump's desk. Yes, if he declassifies something, he has to tell someone so that they can "jump through the hoops" of sending out the memo. No, Trump doesn't have to send the memos, that's why he had a staff. THEY are the ones who hear Trump say something is declassified, and then they are the ones who send out the notifications telling what material was declassified, the date it was declassified, and the reasons for declassification. Yes, the president can declassify anything, but the memos MUST be sent out saying what material is declassified and when, so that the other places also holding the material know it is now declassified.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Never said that the president has to jump through hoops. He says it's declassified, and then his staff are the ones jumping through the hoops to say what the material was, the date it was declassified, and sending out the memos/messages to the appropriate places to let others know it was declassified. Yes, the president can declassify anything they want, never said anything else, but I also stated that a record MUST be made stating that the classified material has been declassified. No memo, no declassification.

So, two questions.

1) What exactly must the memo look like? Can it be handwritten on a post-it, for example? Must the handwriting be reasonably legible (if so, I can never be president)? If the president dictates a clear memo, then does not sign the memo but asks his secretary to type /S/ over his name, does it count?

2) What is the source for your answers? If it is indeed a rule that presidential declassification orders must be in writing, and you can answer those questions, then surely that rule must itself be also be in writing, with answers to those questions.

Link me to it please.

I hope you are not going to cite an "unwritten rule."

 

[ABikerSailor]

View attachment 692707

So, two questions.

1) What exactly must the memo look like? Can it be handwritten on a post-it, for example? Must the handwriting be reasonably legible (if so, I can never be president)? If the president dictates a clear memo, then does not sign the memo but asks his secretary to type /S/ over his name, does it count?

2) What is the source for your answers? If it is indeed a rule that presidential declassification orders must be in writing, and you can answer those questions, then surely that rule must itself be also be in writing, with answers to those questions.

Link me to it please.

I hope you are not going to cite an "unwritten rule."

Are you trying to be stupid with your post it note question? All the president has to do is say that something is declassified, and then his staff are responsible for creating the memos stating the material in question, date it was declassified, and the reason why (and yes, the president can say "just because I want to" if he so desires), but nonetheless, a memo HAS to be sent to all the other agencies/military commands holding copies of said information themselves so that they know it is declassified as well. No, his staff cannot say they won't do it, but, if other agencies determine that some of the information would do harm to the US, it can still be released as a declassified document, with the material that could do harm being redacted.

As far as giving you a link? Kinda hard to do, as it was a whole instruction kept in the personnel office concerning classified information, and I no longer remember the exact instruction number. But, it is out there, and you can look it up yourself if you wish.