A Lesson in Economic for Liberals

[cbirch2]

The idea that solyndra is some form of crony capitalism falls a little short, i have to say.

Sigh.....I was just about to give you a small measure of credibility too.

Why would obama use a solar company to funnel money to his buddies?

Because that's where Kaiser's investments were. It was the perfect vehicle to do it and to launder money to himself. But yet again...that's beside the point. I will be happy to debate that on another thread or in private if you wish.

i barely pay attention to the scandal, and i feel i know a little more than you. Your side of the story stinks of conspiracy, mine follows a little more factual timeline. It goes something like...bush started the DoE project to loan X number of dollars to emerging energy companies. DoE received solyndras application in 2007 and tentatively approved it as a loan recipient a little before obama even came into office.

When i have to choose, i usually go with the more factual scenario rather than the conspiratorial one.

 

[cbirch2]

Today, class, we shall attempt to explain to the liberal mind how taxation, regulation, unionization, and entitlements (such as Obamacare) stagnate the economy, diminish market share for American industry, enhance foreign profit margins, discourage domestic investment, and increase unemployment. To accomplish this we are going to set up a hypothetical set of businesses, a basic chain of distribution, and some basic initial assumptions.

First consider an American company that manufactures widgets. We will call them Widgets Inc. They require 2x4s to make the widgets which they get from Lumber Inc., and Lumber Inc. requires raw materials (logs) which they get from Loggers Inc. Additionally, we have Foreign Inc. that also manufactures widgets and begins with the exact same parameters as Widgets Inc. except that Foreign Inc. is located in a foreign country we will call “Foreignavia”. Both Widgets Inc. and Foreign Inc. sell their widgets to “Phantom-Mart” in the United States for distribution to the American consumer. We will also assume that the quality of the widgets produced by each company is the same and each year 1,000 widgets are sold by Phantom-Mart. We will also assume that one log produces one set of 2x4s which in turn produces one widget.

Let’s toss out some economic givens:
Loggers Inc. has the following factors: $1.00 on logs, $1.00 on labor, and $1.00 profit for a selling price of $3.00 per log

Lumber Inc. has the following: $3.00 on materials (logs), $2.00 on labor, and $1.50 profit for a selling price per bundle of 2x4s of $6.50

Widgets Inc. has the following: $6.50 on materials (2x4s), $3.00 on labor, and $2.00 profit for a selling price of $11.50

Foreign Inc. has the exact same parameters as Widgets Inc. except that it costs them $1.00 to transport their widgets from Foreignovia to the United States so they have a selling price of $12.50

Phantom Mart has the following: $1.50 for labor and $2.00 profit, meaning they sell widgets to the consumer at a price of $15.00 for widgets from Widgets Inc. and $16.00 for widgets from Foreign Inc.

We will calculate market share as the percentage differential in price between the two so since Widgets Inc. sells at a price that is 6% lower than Foreign Inc. we will assign a starting market share of 56% - 44% in favor of Widgets Inc. We will also assume that a factory can produce 100 widgets per year so Widgets Inc. requires six factories to meet the consumer demand of 560 widgets and Foreign Inc requires five factories to meet the consumer demand of 440 widgets a year.

Now that we have that established, let’s start taxing. The government imposes a 10% tax on production and manufacturing. Now one might think that this will raise the price of the $15.00 American widget to merely $16.50. But that’s not the case at all. It must be applied across the entire chain of distribution. Neither can a company simply add 10% to their selling price in order to maintain their profit. Loggers Inc. for a $3.00 price per log must add more than just $0.30 to their cost because at a new selling price of $3.30 the 10% tax is $0.33 translating into a profit of only $0.97 per log instead of the $1.00 they had pre-tax. So in order to maintain their $1.00 of profit they must raise the price to $3.33 representing an 11% increase. This is then passed on to Lumber Inc. who now has to pay $3.33 per log increasing their pre-tax price per bundle of 2x4s to $6.83 but again they now have a tax to pay as well which initially would be $0.68. Again however they cannot simply add $0.68 to their price as it would reduce their profit. They actually must raise the price $0.76 to cover their tax and the increased cost of logs. Their final selling price is now $7.59 which represents a 17% increase in against their initial price of $6.50. This will continue to Widgets Inc. who in the same way will now be forced to charge $13.99 per widget.

We will assume that the tax does not apply to sales so Phantom Mart will not get taxed but they must now pay $13.99 for an American widget as opposed to the pre-tax price of $11.50 which means they must sell the American widget for $17.49 instead of the pre-tax price of $15.00 and vs. the Foreign Inc. widget which remains at $16.00. The 10% manufacturing tax has resulted in a final increase of nearly 17% for the American consumer. But Foreign Inc. does not just sit back and do nothing. They realize they can increase their price and realize a greater profit and still sell at a lower price than their American competitor. So they split the difference and raise their prices from $12.50 to $13.25. With the new selling prices in mind when we calculate production for the next year Foreign Inc. now gains a 54% - 46% market share advantage (a ten percent swing) and they are realizing a 38% increase in profit. This means that out of the 1,000 widgets to be sold next year Widget Inc. will only sell 460. They have six plants that produce 100 widgets each but with only a demand for 460 they are forced to close one plant or they will be overproducing and lose their profitability. Foreign Inc. on the other hand now needs to produce 540 widgets and as such they must build a new plant to accommodate the increased demand. This means American workers just got laid off, they will be requiring fewer 2x4s from Lumber Inc, who will in turn be requiring fewer logs from Logging Inc.

Now here is an important point. Even if we now eliminate that tax the selling price for Widgets Inc. will not revert to its original price of $11.50. This is because over time people become accustomed to paying the higher price and if that tax is eliminated Widgets Inc. will merely split the difference and lower their price to $12.75. They realize greater profits and the consumer still thinks they are getting a good deal with a lower price. The longer a tax is in place the greater this effect. So once you assess a tax, the damage is done. Prices will never revert to their original pre-tax price.

Now let’s regulate!

Environmentalists are pissed at Logging Inc because they are destroying the habitat of the Northwestern Checkered Sloth, and they are demanding that action be taken to clean up the carbon emissions coming from the factories at Lumber Inc. and Widgets Inc. Government imposes emissions standards that increase the cost of production at Lumber Inc. and Widgets Inc. by $0.75 and declares part of Logging Inc’s forests as federally protected. This forces Logging Inc to go into areas that are more difficult to access and further away to provide logs. The additional cost is $0.50 per log. So where Logging Inc was producing logs at $1.00 a pop they now pay $1.50 to produce the same thing. This increases not only their base selling price but the amount of tax they must pay as well since that is calculated as a percentage. Their selling price now goes from $3.33 per log to $3.89 per log. Lumber Inc. now pays that higher price for raw materials, has to deal with their own regulations, and the increased tax burden and they have to raise prices from $7.59 to $9.04. Same thing with Widgets Inc who must raise their price from $13.99 to $16.43 and now Phantom Mart must sell American widgets for $19.93 compared to their pre-regulatory price of $17.49. Again, Foreign Inc sees an opportunity and raises their prices by half of the difference to $14.84. Foreign Inc has now seen their profit margin grow 117% compared to their original price while the American companies have seen no increase in profit. The price for consumers has risen 22% even for the cheaper foreign widget that has done nothing to demand an increase in sales price.

Again we must recalculate market share and we find that Foreign Inc now has a 58% - 42% advantage. With this and the rate of production per plant there is no need to build or shut down plants although Widgets Inc will certainly be forced to suspend operations for part of the year. More workers are laid off, less 2x4s required from Lumber Inc, less logs required from Logging Inc.

Now let’s apply Obamacare!

Obamacare we will say will cost an additional 15% against labor. You know what’s coming by now. The price of logs jumps from $3.89 to $4.06. The price of 2x4s from $9.04 to $9.57. The price of widgets from $16.43 to $17.52. But this time Phantom Mart gets hit too because they have employees as well they must provide for and so the selling price for an American widget jumps from $19.93 to $21.25 (a 6.6% increase) but the foreign widget only jumps from $18.34 to $18.57 (a 1.2% increase). This time Foreign Inc does nothing to their prices. They decide they are going to go for the market share and squeeze Widgets Inc. and by doing so they grab a 64% - 36% market share advantage. This means Foreign Inc will have to produce 640 widgets when they only have the capacity to produce 500. They must build two new plants. Widgets Inc. now only has a demand for 360 widgets but they have the capacity to produce 500. They must close another plant.

Now about this time along come Billy Bob. Billy Bob is a manager at Phantom Mart and he’s saved some cash and he wants to invest. Well he could invest in the American Widgets Inc. but over the last couple years they have shown a market share decrease of 20% and they have not shown any increase in profitability. Foreign Inc on the other hand has shown a market share increase of 20% and profitability has increased 117% meaning a trend of a strong return on investment. Who do you think Billy Bob is going to invest in? This means American money generated through goods and services is now going to help Foreign Inc to build their two new plants.

Now let’s unionize!

The workers unite across the board and strike a deal for an initial 10% increase in wages and a mandatory 5% increase every year. I will skip to the bottom line because by now you are surely getting the point. In the first year American widgets increase to $22.11 while foreign widgets increase to $18.72. At this point Foreign Inc makes a bold move. They slash their profit margin back to the original level and start selling again at $12.50 because they know that within six years American Widgets Inc. will be forced to charge double the price of their own product enabling them to grab a full 100% market share and driving their American competitors out of business.

This is not lost on Widgets Inc and they realize they have only one choice that will keep their company from a total collapse. They are forced to close all their plants and move to Foreignovia where they can compete with Foreign Inc. at an even level. Of course this means they are no longer buying 2x4s from Lumber Inc and in turn Logging Inc gets slaughtered as well. The result is that we have taxed, regulated, Obamacared, and unionized our American business to the point that it simply cannot compete while foreign profits and employment have increased. Because of the closure of all these plants due to a decreased market share American workers are out of a job, unemployment has skyrocketed, and the economy has ground to screeching halt. Thankfully though, the Northwestern Checkered Sloth is happy as a pig in shit.

At this point, liberals, environmentalists, and union workers start scratching their heads wondering where all the jobs have gone and their solution is “raise taxes and increase union influence”. And they wonder why we are where we are.

Class dismissed.

You can't make shit up and say that's a lesson. No wonder you guys don't do well in school.

Here, let me give you a "REAL" lesson.

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

True story.

Here, let me say that again.

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

Apparently, Republicans don't understand the relationship between "demand" and "jobs".

Fantastic

 

[Ropey]

Dude...come on.....Wikipedia? Really? Wikipedia is the only source of information I have specifically banned in my class for students to use as a source of reference. None of my colleagues allow it either that I am aware of. The other links you provided I will accept pending further investigation.

The title of the thread is "A Lesson in Economic for Liberals".

 

[BluePhantom]

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

True story.

Here, let me say that again.

Let's see what Democratic businessman Steve Wynn has to say on the matter:

"I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, and progress and job creation in my lifetime," Wynn said in an investor conference call published by Business Insider.

"I could spend the next three hours giving you examples of all of us in this marketplace that are frightened to death about all the new regulations, our healthcare costs escalate, regulations coming from left and right."

Don't think Wynn is acting as some sort of voice box for the Republican party, either. He's not.

Any business owner should fear Obama, he says.


"That's true of Democratic businessman and Republican businessman, and I am a Democratic businessman and I support Harry Reid."

Steve Wynn: Obama Is Killing the Economy


You'll love this video

Steve Wynn on the Economy, Jobs & Hotels - CNBC

Now....you were saying?

 

[Sallow]

You can't make shit up and say that's a lesson. No wonder you guys don't do well in school.

Here, let me give you a "REAL" lesson.

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

True story.

Here, let me say that again.

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

Apparently, Republicans don't understand the relationship between "demand" and "jobs".

Well the shit he's making up is the small old Conservative meme..that regulations, unions and taxes are bad bad bad.

Someone it's okay for private interests, however, to lobby the government. So long as they are rich private interests. Labor, however, in the minds of conservatism..has no such right.

The first amendment guarantee for free speech is just for corporate executives. And the regulations they so hate, keeps employees..ALIVE. True story.

Taxes? Well aside they pay for infrastructure..and essential services that allow private industry to operate..from police protection, to roads, to the fire department to the courts that makes sure everyone honors contracts..it's mandated by the Constitution to tax.

Conservatives are nuts. They want to drag us back into the golden age of Monarchies.

Also known as "The Dark Ages" to anyone paying attention.

 

[cbirch2]

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

True story.

Here, let me say that again.

Let's see what Democratic businessman Steve Wynn has to say on the matter:

"I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, and progress and job creation in my lifetime," Wynn said in an investor conference call published by Business Insider.

"I could spend the next three hours giving you examples of all of us in this marketplace that are frightened to death about all the new regulations, our healthcare costs escalate, regulations coming from left and right."

Don't think Wynn is acting as some sort of voice box for the Republican party, either. He's not.

Any business owner should fear Obama, he says.


"That's true of Democratic businessman and Republican businessman, and I am a Democratic businessman and I support Harry Reid."

Steve Wynn: Obama Is Killing the Economy


You'll love this video

Steve Wynn on the Economy, Jobs & Hotels - CNBC

Now....you were saying?

Seriously? So all i have to do is find a disaffected republican and i win the argument?

See: David Frum

Please point to regulations that obama has enacted that are killing jobs. Please, name some.

 

[BluePhantom]

i barely pay attention to the scandal, and i feel i know a little more than you. Your side of the story stinks of conspiracy, mine follows a little more factual timeline. It goes something like...bush started the DoE project to loan X number of dollars to emerging energy companies. DoE received solyndras application in 2007 and tentatively approved it as a loan recipient a little before obama even came into office.

When i have to choose, i usually go with the more factual scenario rather than the conspiratorial one.

That's incorrect but (and this is the last thing I have to say on the matter here) I am not going to get into that on this thread. Again I will be happy to discuss it with you on another thread or in private but it's beyond the scope of what we are discussing. You too Sallow. if you want to engage in a side debate or bullshit rhetoric that you have provided no supporting evidence for knock yourself out, but don't expect me to engage in this particular thread.

BTW Sallow....might I suggest that you change your icon to something that has more rounded teeth? Your bite is not that sharp.

 

[Sallow]

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

True story.

Here, let me say that again.

Let's see what Democratic businessman Steve Wynn has to say on the matter:

"I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, and progress and job creation in my lifetime," Wynn said in an investor conference call published by Business Insider.

"I could spend the next three hours giving you examples of all of us in this marketplace that are frightened to death about all the new regulations, our healthcare costs escalate, regulations coming from left and right."

Don't think Wynn is acting as some sort of voice box for the Republican party, either. He's not.

Any business owner should fear Obama, he says.


"That's true of Democratic businessman and Republican businessman, and I am a Democratic businessman and I support Harry Reid."

Steve Wynn: Obama Is Killing the Economy


You'll love this video

Steve Wynn on the Economy, Jobs & Hotels - CNBC

Now....you were saying?

Except that Steve Wynn is a registered Republican.

Sorta blows his bullshit out of the water.

Steve Wynn

 

[Sallow]

i barely pay attention to the scandal, and i feel i know a little more than you. Your side of the story stinks of conspiracy, mine follows a little more factual timeline. It goes something like...bush started the DoE project to loan X number of dollars to emerging energy companies. DoE received solyndras application in 2007 and tentatively approved it as a loan recipient a little before obama even came into office.

When i have to choose, i usually go with the more factual scenario rather than the conspiratorial one.

That's incorrect but (and this is the last thing I have to say on the matter here) I am not going to get into that on this thread. Again I will be happy to discuss it with you on another thread or in private but it's beyond the scope of what we are discussing. You too Sallow. if you want to engage in a side debate or bullshit rhetoric that you have provided no supporting evidence for knock yourself out, but don't expect me to engage in this particular thread.

BTW Sallow....might I suggest that you change your icon to something that has more rounded teeth? Your bite is not that sharp.

Been taking you to the woodshed pal. Little late to complain about it.

 

[BluePhantom]

Except that Steve Wynn is a registered Republican.

Sorta blows his bullshit out of the water.

Steve Wynn

NNDB.com? That's your reliable source of reference?

And as far as taking me to the woodshed....they don't have an icon that appropriately catches the essence of how hard I am laughing right now. Anyone who makes the argument that conservatives don't want competition has the intellectual capacity of a zygote.

Oh here...let me save you the time googling that:

Zygote Definition

 

[Sallow]

Except that Steve Wynn is a registered Republican.

Sorta blows his bullshit out of the water.

Steve Wynn

NNDB.com? That's your reliable source of reference?

And as far as taking me to the woodshed....they don't have an icon that appropriately catches the essence of how hard I am laughing right now. Anyone who makes the argument that conservatives don't want competition has the intellectual capacity of a zygote.

Oh here...let me save you the time googling that:

Zygote Definition

Actually..you guys don't. It's been proven over and over again. The big multi-national to big to fail conglomerates are a direct result of conservatives chipping away at regulations that prevented that very thing from happening. This is exactly what you want. Large profit margins and a weak, flabby labor market. The way to get there is by creating less competition and less places to work.

Wages have been flat for the last 30 years..for most people..and outrageous for executives. The record bears me out.

And more on Mr. Entertainment..

Steve Wynn: Obama a bad bet for biz - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

Quite frankly.."hedging your bets" on a Entertainment mogul's from Las Vegas economic views is extremely hilarious. It's almost as funny as running Trump for President.

 

[cbirch2]

i barely pay attention to the scandal, and i feel i know a little more than you. Your side of the story stinks of conspiracy, mine follows a little more factual timeline. It goes something like...bush started the DoE project to loan X number of dollars to emerging energy companies. DoE received solyndras application in 2007 and tentatively approved it as a loan recipient a little before obama even came into office.

When i have to choose, i usually go with the more factual scenario rather than the conspiratorial one.

That's incorrect but (and this is the last thing I have to say on the matter here) I am not going to get into that on this thread. Again I will be happy to discuss it with you on another thread or in private but it's beyond the scope of what we are discussing. You too Sallow. if you want to engage in a side debate or bullshit rhetoric that you have provided no supporting evidence for knock yourself out, but don't expect me to engage in this particular thread.

BTW Sallow....might I suggest that you change your icon to something that has more rounded teeth? Your bite is not that sharp.

actually no, its exactly correct. The final decision was left up to the obama administration and took place on march 26, 2009, i believe. But by the time obama took office solyndra was one of 16 companies that were finalized candidates to receive loans.

At no point did the obama administration have the ability to simply pick solyndra from that start. Solyndra was part of a group of companies selected long before obama was in office. If it hadnt been selected during the bush administration it wouldnt have been available as a choice during the obama administration.

So a scandal is pretty flimsy.

 

[cbirch2]

Companies say they aren't hiring because of a lack of "demand".

Republicans hear, "Companies aren't hiring because of "uncertainty".

True story.

Here, let me say that again.

Let's see what Democratic businessman Steve Wynn has to say on the matter:

"I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, and progress and job creation in my lifetime," Wynn said in an investor conference call published by Business Insider.

"I could spend the next three hours giving you examples of all of us in this marketplace that are frightened to death about all the new regulations, our healthcare costs escalate, regulations coming from left and right."

Don't think Wynn is acting as some sort of voice box for the Republican party, either. He's not.

Any business owner should fear Obama, he says.


"That's true of Democratic businessman and Republican businessman, and I am a Democratic businessman and I support Harry Reid."

Steve Wynn: Obama Is Killing the Economy


You'll love this video

Steve Wynn on the Economy, Jobs & Hotels - CNBC

Now....you were saying?

Except that Steve Wynn is a registered Republican.

Sorta blows his bullshit out of the water.

Steve Wynn

It doesnt really matter whos saying it, its bullshit. Does BP honestly believe business have the money to hire, but simply wont because theyre worried about the president?

Because thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

 

[Sallow]

Let's see what Democratic businessman Steve Wynn has to say on the matter:

"I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, and progress and job creation in my lifetime," Wynn said in an investor conference call published by Business Insider.

"I could spend the next three hours giving you examples of all of us in this marketplace that are frightened to death about all the new regulations, our healthcare costs escalate, regulations coming from left and right."

Don't think Wynn is acting as some sort of voice box for the Republican party, either. He's not.

Any business owner should fear Obama, he says.


"That's true of Democratic businessman and Republican businessman, and I am a Democratic businessman and I support Harry Reid."

Steve Wynn: Obama Is Killing the Economy


You'll love this video

Steve Wynn on the Economy, Jobs & Hotels - CNBC

Now....you were saying?

Except that Steve Wynn is a registered Republican.

Sorta blows his bullshit out of the water.

Steve Wynn

It doesnt really matter whos saying it, its bullshit. Does BP honestly believe business have the money to hire, but simply wont because theyre worried about the president?

Because thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

I've met more then a few real live CEO's and for the most part..they are "apolitical". And if taxes, both corporate and personal were so bad in this country, you'd expect to see much fewer billion and millionaires..no?

The fact remains that we have a class of people that make more money then they could possibly spend in multiple lifetimes. So, it's a numbers game with them. And one they are playing to the detriment to the country at large. It's impossible to consolidate so much wealth and hope to promote capitalism and democracy.

 

[BluePhantom]

Except that Steve Wynn is a registered Republican.

Sorta blows his bullshit out of the water.

Steve Wynn

NNDB.com? That's your reliable source of reference?

And as far as taking me to the woodshed....they don't have an icon that appropriately catches the essence of how hard I am laughing right now. Anyone who makes the argument that conservatives don't want competition has the intellectual capacity of a zygote.

Oh here...let me save you the time googling that:

Zygote Definition

Actually..you guys don't. It's been proven over and over again. The big multi-national to big to fail conglomerates are a direct result of conservatives chipping away at regulations that prevented that very thing from happening.

And your supporting evidence is what again?

And more on Mr. Entertainment..

Steve Wynn: Obama a bad bet for biz - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

oh shit...now it's Politico. We're working our way right up the liberal ladder, huh? What's next? Huffington Post? Daily Kos? Puh-leeeze.

 

[BluePhantom]

It doesnt really matter whos saying it, its bullshit. Does BP honestly believe business have the money to hire, but simply wont because theyre worried about the president?

Because thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

BP stands for BRITISH Petroleum genius. And you are God damn right industry worries about the policies of the next president. Where do you think the phrase "election year recession" comes from?

 

[Sallow]

NNDB.com? That's your reliable source of reference?

And as far as taking me to the woodshed....they don't have an icon that appropriately catches the essence of how hard I am laughing right now. Anyone who makes the argument that conservatives don't want competition has the intellectual capacity of a zygote.

Oh here...let me save you the time googling that:

Zygote Definition

Actually..you guys don't. It's been proven over and over again. The big multi-national to big to fail conglomerates are a direct result of conservatives chipping away at regulations that prevented that very thing from happening.

And your supporting evidence is what again?

And more on Mr. Entertainment..

Steve Wynn: Obama a bad bet for biz - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

oh shit...now it's Politico. We're working our way right up the liberal ladder, huh? What's next? Huffington Post? Daily Kos? Puh-leeeze.

What? Supporting evidence? Where have you been..on a mission to mars or something?

Did you miss Silverado savings and loan? Did you miss the bond market bailout? Did you miss Enron? Did you miss TARP?

Chief..if we are talking economics..please come to the table with a little more then your hypothetical fairy tales.

Because it's tiresome.

 

[Sallow]

It doesnt really matter whos saying it, its bullshit. Does BP honestly believe business have the money to hire, but simply wont because theyre worried about the president?

Because thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

BP stands for BRITISH Petroleum genius. And you are God damn right industry worries about the policies of the next president. Where do you think the phrase "election year recession" comes from?

BP stands for BluePhantom, Einstein.

 

[cbirch2]

It doesnt really matter whos saying it, its bullshit. Does BP honestly believe business have the money to hire, but simply wont because theyre worried about the president?

Because thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

BP stands for BRITISH Petroleum genius. And you are God damn right industry worries about the policies of the next president. Where do you think the phrase "election year recession" comes from?

BP stands for BluePhantom you tool. Cant even recognize your name?

So in your view of the world, businesses have enough money to hire people, but just wont?

 

[BluePhantom]

What? Supporting evidence? Where have you been..on a mission to mars or something?

Did you miss Silverado savings and loan? Did you miss the bond market bailout? Did you miss Enron? Did you miss TARP?

Chief..if we are talking economics..please come to the table with a little more then your hypothetical fairy tales.

Because it's tiresome.

Well let's see dumb ass...when did I ever say that there were not companies who took advantage of situations or acted in illegal or unethical manners? When the fuck did I ever say that regulations should be reduced to zero? When the hell did I ever support "too big to fail" bailouts?

If you have been paying attention to what I have actually said instead of salivating at a chance to attack a conservative without even bothering to pay attention to what the fuck you were arguing you might have caught that part where I argued that taxes, regulations, and worker protections are vital to our economic health so long as they do not exceed their mandate or base purpose.

And as far as only Republicans chipping away at regulations I might suggest you educate yourself on Bush, Oxley, and Shelby's attempts to regulate Fannie and Freddie from as early as 2003 while Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and other liberals (many of whom were getting paid off by those institutions) worked to block those efforts and denied any impending problems.

Fucking hypocrite