A modest proposal this April 15

[akelch]

The answer is the Fair Tax!!!
http://www.fairtax.org

 

[konradv]

Personally I'm in favor of the flat tax system, except no exceptions. The first dollar earned should be taxed the same as the last, with no deductions.

That's very unfair to the lowest earners, as the first dollar is worth so much more in terms of quality of life than the last.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't see how that would affect spending, other than to make the government spend more. Can you imagine the administrative and postage cost for mailing every taxpayer a bill every 2 weeks?

I see how it would effect spending. It would raise it. Every two weeks more and more people would have to be thrown in the slammer, housed and fed for failure to pay. No thanks, our prisons are full enough. Even if taxes were halved and the budget balanced there'd still be those who wouldn't have it to pay. Regardless of the budget baseline, the present situation or a minarchist one, that system would present an upward pressure on spending.

Really? Is that happening among the self-employed a lot do you think? I know a LOT of sole proprietors, independent contractors, and other self-employed folks who seem to be managing just fine calculating and writing periodic checks for the taxes they owe. And we all are pretty good about doing it on time because we don't like the penalties assessed if we are late. Do you really think people capable of earning a living are incapable of learning how to pay periodic taxes on what they earn? Most especially when they have to satisfy 70,000+ pages of a tax code every year when they have to file their personal tax returns?

I have a much higher opinion of the average American I guess. But then I think all Americans who are mentally and physically able should be taking responsibility for themselves making it far less necessary for the government to think for them and take what it wants however it wants.

 

[Flopper]

I question the idea that wage earners are not aware of the amount taxes they pay. It's pretty damn clear on every paycheck stub, their W2, and of course it's in there yearly tax return.

 

[konradv]

I don't see how that would affect spending, other than to make the government spend more. Can you imagine the administrative and postage cost for mailing every taxpayer a bill every 2 weeks?

I see how it would effect spending. It would raise it. Every two weeks more and more people would have to be thrown in the slammer, housed and fed for failure to pay. No thanks, our prisons are full enough. Even if taxes were halved and the budget balanced there'd still be those who wouldn't have it to pay. Regardless of the budget baseline, the present situation or a minarchist one, that system would present an upward pressure on spending.

Really? Is that happening among the self-employed a lot do you think? I know a LOT of sole proprietors, independent contractors, and other self-employed folks who seem to be managing just fine calculating and writing periodic checks for the taxes they owe. And we all are pretty good about doing it on time because we don't like the penalties assessed if we are late. Do you really think people capable of earning a living are incapable of learning how to pay periodic taxes on what they earn? Most especially when they have to satisfy 70,000+ pages of a tax code every year when they have to file their personal tax returns?

I have a much higher opinion of the average American I guess. But then I think all Americans who are mentally and physically able should be taking responsibility for themselves making it far less necessary for the government to think for them and take what it wants however it wants.

Yeah, but now you're talking everybody, not just the self-motivated entrepreneur types. Are some of these Americans of which you have a high opinion the same ones that are being called, "low information", "takers not givers", "the 47%", etc.? Because apparently not everyone feels the same. There's a big difference between having respect for your fellow citizens and looking at the world through rose-colored glasses.

 

[akelch]

I don't see how that would affect spending, other than to make the government spend more. Can you imagine the administrative and postage cost for mailing every taxpayer a bill every 2 weeks?

I see how it would effect spending. It would raise it. Every two weeks more and more people would have to be thrown in the slammer, housed and fed for failure to pay. No thanks, our prisons are full enough. Even if taxes were halved and the budget balanced there'd still be those who wouldn't have it to pay. Regardless of the budget baseline, the present situation or a minarchist one, that system would present an upward pressure on spending.

Really? Is that happening among the self-employed a lot do you think? I know a LOT of sole proprietors, independent contractors, and other self-employed folks who seem to be managing just fine calculating and writing periodic checks for the taxes they owe. And we all are pretty good about doing it on time because we don't like the penalties assessed if we are late. Do you really think people capable of earning a living are incapable of learning how to pay periodic taxes on what they earn? Most especially when they have to satisfy 70,000+ pages of a tax code every year when they have to file their personal tax returns?

I have a much higher opinion of the average American I guess. But then I think all Americans who are mentally and physically able should be taking responsibility for themselves making it far less necessary for the government to think for them and take what it wants however it wants.

My point is...they should have to...the tax code should be very painless and seamless.
Fair Tax bill!!!

 

[akelch]

I see how it would effect spending. It would raise it. Every two weeks more and more people would have to be thrown in the slammer, housed and fed for failure to pay. No thanks, our prisons are full enough. Even if taxes were halved and the budget balanced there'd still be those who wouldn't have it to pay. Regardless of the budget baseline, the present situation or a minarchist one, that system would present an upward pressure on spending.

Really? Is that happening among the self-employed a lot do you think? I know a LOT of sole proprietors, independent contractors, and other self-employed folks who seem to be managing just fine calculating and writing periodic checks for the taxes they owe. And we all are pretty good about doing it on time because we don't like the penalties assessed if we are late. Do you really think people capable of earning a living are incapable of learning how to pay periodic taxes on what they earn? Most especially when they have to satisfy 70,000+ pages of a tax code every year when they have to file their personal tax returns?

I have a much higher opinion of the average American I guess. But then I think all Americans who are mentally and physically able should be taking responsibility for themselves making it far less necessary for the government to think for them and take what it wants however it wants.

My point is...they should have to...the tax code should be very painless and seamless.
Fair Tax bill!!!

Sorry ...they shouldn't have to...

 

[The Rabbi]

Personally I'm in favor of the flat tax system, except no exceptions. The first dollar earned should be taxed the same as the last, with no deductions.

That's very unfair to the lowest earners, as the first dollar is worth so much more in terms of quality of life than the last.

Life is unfair. The alternative is punishing people for working hard and being successful. That seems pretty darn unfair to me.

 

[Foxfyre]

I see how it would effect spending. It would raise it. Every two weeks more and more people would have to be thrown in the slammer, housed and fed for failure to pay. No thanks, our prisons are full enough. Even if taxes were halved and the budget balanced there'd still be those who wouldn't have it to pay. Regardless of the budget baseline, the present situation or a minarchist one, that system would present an upward pressure on spending.

Really? Is that happening among the self-employed a lot do you think? I know a LOT of sole proprietors, independent contractors, and other self-employed folks who seem to be managing just fine calculating and writing periodic checks for the taxes they owe. And we all are pretty good about doing it on time because we don't like the penalties assessed if we are late. Do you really think people capable of earning a living are incapable of learning how to pay periodic taxes on what they earn? Most especially when they have to satisfy 70,000+ pages of a tax code every year when they have to file their personal tax returns?

I have a much higher opinion of the average American I guess. But then I think all Americans who are mentally and physically able should be taking responsibility for themselves making it far less necessary for the government to think for them and take what it wants however it wants.

Yeah, but now you're talking everybody, not just the self-motivated entrepreneur types. Are some of these Americans of which you have a high opinion the same ones that are being called, "low information", "takers not givers", "the 47%", etc.? Because apparently not everyone feels the same. There's a big difference between having respect for your fellow citizens and looking at the world through rose-colored glasses.

But, again at risk of speaking for him/her, I think that was LittleAcorn's whole point with #2. Let's take away the rose colored glasses and allow the tax payer see it for what it is. Some say they are very aware of what taxes they are paying as shown on their pay stubs and W-2s. But it never "feels" like you're paying something if you've never had it in your possesion. Never held it in your hands. Never had the option of spending it. When you have to write out the check though as many of us do, and see the immediate drop in your bank account, it becomes a much bigger deal.

The government has been requiring employers to withhold taxes from pay checks only since 1943. Up until then there had been no mandatory withholding and folks seemed to get their taxes paid during the previous 30+ years after the 16th Amendment was passed. I refuse to believe that the ordinary American is incapable of calculating and writing that check. If they are, the schools are in worse shape that even I thought. It isn't rocket science.

Of interest, Connecticutt, Rhode Island, and Utah never ratified the 16th Amendment. New Hampshire initially rejected it but eventually gave in. Arkansas initially ratified it and then withdrew its ratification. I wish they all had had a crystal ball to look ahead and know that none of them should have ratified it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Personally I'm in favor of the flat tax system, except no exceptions. The first dollar earned should be taxed the same as the last, with no deductions.

That's very unfair to the lowest earners, as the first dollar is worth so much more in terms of quality of life than the last.

Life is unfair. The alternative is punishing people for working hard and being successful. That seems pretty darn unfair to me.

It also removes any consequences to those who pay little or no taxes when the hard working successful folks are punished even more for their success.

We've seen the metaphor kicked around a lot lately of 'democracy' being three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Well how is that different than 75% of Americans who won't see their taxes affected in any way voting for people who promise to raise taxes on the other 25%?

Not only would we take a much difference view of taxes if we had to write the check to pay them but we would take a much different view of changes in the tax code if everybody saw an increase or decrease when the policy changes.

 

[g5000]

Every American should be sent a bill for $50,000. If there are four members in your family, you should get a bill for $200,000.

That's how much we owe to pay off our national debt.

 

[Flopper]

Personally I'm in favor of the flat tax system, except no exceptions. The first dollar earned should be taxed the same as the last, with no deductions.

I think the tax system is what is and we aren't going to make any substantial changes. Every effort at simplifying the tax code has made it worst.

Today computers prepare most of our tax returns. They sent our returns electronically to the IRS. IRS computers check our computer. Many Americans have no idea what deductions and credits are taken. They have no idea what tax bracket they are in. All they know about their taxes is how much they have to pay or how much refund they will get. I think the day may come when we won't file tax returns. The IRS will compute how we owe and will debit or credit our bank account.