A question for the anti-choice crowd.

[koshergrl]

Is a two year old child a human?

Yeah. it is. And do you know what a two-year-old isn't? A fetus. That's why they call it a baby, or a child, not a fetus. See, no one says, "Hey, guys! Look at these pictures of my two-year-old fetus!"

Look, like I said, we are never going to agree. What we can - I hope - agree on, and should is that it is not proper for anyone to pass any legislation that forces another individual to behave in accordance with someone else's moral code.

Sorry, not when it comes to the exploitation and murder of vulnerable people. If your moral code doesn't provide for themprotection of the vulnerable and weak, too bad, we're going to protect them anyway. Move.to China. They love baby killing there. It's state sanctioned by golly...mandatory.

So, when are you going to start expecting your chosen political candidates to publicly endorse your position - including punishment for women who seek abortions?

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Oh look, a baby killer engaging in logical fallacy based hackery. We've never seen THAT before.

What logical fallacy? You insist that you think abortion is murder, and that women seeking abortion should be punished equally with the doctors who perform them. There is not a single political candidate who is supporting that position. there was one, and he suffered such immediate, and furied backlash that he walked his position back within a matter of hours.

The only ones involved in hackery here are you, and your fake conservative thug friends who hypocritically, and cowardly have no problem taking a hard line position on abortion right to its logical conclusion when you're nmice, and safe behind an anonymous forum, but when out in the real world, with real political consequences? Oh no!!!! Never will you expect an actual political candidate to endorse that position. Because you know that in the real world your absurdly stupid position would be political suicide.

So what ever can you do? Oh! Insult the guy who is exposing your hypocrisy and cowardice. Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sorry, I quit reading after "what logical fallacy". Asshat ideologues who aren't even aware that they are basing all their arguments on serial logical fallacies are a waste of time. They just jump.from retarded talking point to the next. Poor brainwashed dolts.

And these weirdos seriously whack off to the thought of abortion. Super creepy.

 

[koshergrl]

Guess what? None of those are human beings.

Neither is a fetus. A being is a separate, biologically independent organism. A fetus depends entirely on it's host for it's functions.

Look. The bottom line is that the personhood of a fetus is a matter of opinion, based on one's personal moral code, be it religious or otherwise. You will never convince me of your position. Likewise, I will never convince you of mine.

I would not support any legislation that would require you to behave in accordance with my moral view. Likewise I will never support any legislation that requires me, or anyone else, to behave in accordance with yours.

A fetus isn't a.parasite, and it has it's own nervous and circulatory systems. Functioning kidneys, heart, brain.

So do parasites. Learn what one is?

I know what a parasite is. I was responding to the comment that the fetus was totally dependent for all functions. Not true. Learn to read, baby killer.

Actually, for, at least, the first 13 weeks, it is. Even then it is not self-functioning until at least 23 weeks. Did you finish high school? If you did, I'd sue them for failing to educate you.

I didn't say it was self functioning. Yet another fallacy used in place of actual argument.

I tutored retards like you...after I was approached by the English dept. head who begged me to do so. I will tutor you as well, for a fee. Until you request or otherwise obtain help, you're anwaste of time.

 

[Czernobog]

Sorry, I quit reading...

Of course you did. You can't stand having your hypocrisy, and cowardice revealed. Now, off with you so the grownups can talk.

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[Czernobog]

Neither is a fetus. A being is a separate, biologically independent organism. A fetus depends entirely on it's host for it's functions.

Look. The bottom line is that the personhood of a fetus is a matter of opinion, based on one's personal moral code, be it religious or otherwise. You will never convince me of your position. Likewise, I will never convince you of mine.

I would not support any legislation that would require you to behave in accordance with my moral view. Likewise I will never support any legislation that requires me, or anyone else, to behave in accordance with yours.

A fetus isn't a.parasite, and it has it's own nervous and circulatory systems. Functioning kidneys, heart, brain.

So do parasites. Learn what one is?

I know what a parasite is. I was responding to the comment that the fetus was totally dependent for all functions. Not true. Learn to read, baby killer.

Actually, for, at least, the first 13 weeks, it is. Even then it is not self-functioning until at least 23 weeks. Did you finish high school? If you did, I'd sue them for failing to educate you.

I didn't say it was self functioning. Yet another fallacy used in place of actual argument.

I tutored retards like you...after I was approached by the English dept. head who begged me to do so. I will tutor you as well, for a fee. Until you request or otherwise obtain help, you're anwaste of time.

You really need to learn what a logical fallacy is. Now go away so the grownups can talk.

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[koshergrl]

Sorry, I quit reading...

Of course you did. You can't stand having your hypocrisy, and cowardice revealed. Now, off with you so the grownups can talk.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You haven't revealed anything. You have made no points, because instead of addressing the issue or posting any information that defends your idiocy, you just jump from one logical fallacy to the next. And then think you've ac complished something.

 

[koshergrl]

A fetus isn't a.parasite, and it has it's own nervous and circulatory systems. Functioning kidneys, heart, brain.

So do parasites. Learn what one is?

I know what a parasite is. I was responding to the comment that the fetus was totally dependent for all functions. Not true. Learn to read, baby killer.

Actually, for, at least, the first 13 weeks, it is. Even then it is not self-functioning until at least 23 weeks. Did you finish high school? If you did, I'd sue them for failing to educate you.

I didn't say it was self functioning. Yet another fallacy used in place of actual argument.

I tutored retards like you...after I was approached by the English dept. head who begged me to do so. I will tutor you as well, for a fee. Until you request or otherwise obtain help, you're anwaste of time.

You really need to learn what a logical fallacy is. Now go away so the grownups can talk.

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I do know what they are, baby killer.

And while they can be fun, if that's your only tool, you will never be taken seriously.

Well, until you abduct some poor girl to play 'abortion' with. Then ppl will take you seriously.

 

[Czernobog]

...throwing a temper tantrum, hurling insults, and stomping feet

Yes, yes...we know...you can stomp your feet and hurl insults like a little child. No one cares. Now go away, and let the grownups talk.

 

[koshergrl]

I know what a parasite is. I was responding to the comment that the fetus was totally dependent for all functions. Not true. Learn to read, baby killer.

Baby killer? Like your God, who lets half of all conceptions die?

We invented Induced Abortion, He invented Spontaneous Abortion. He performs many times as many as we do.

Nonsense, baby killing anti Christian loon. Obviously you, like most progressive death cultists, cannot conceive of the difference between death by natural causes, and murder. Your failure to mark the difference is what identifies you as a disgusting mentally ll sociopath who should be.locked.up...for your own safety, and the.safety of others.

You cry for the fetuses we terminate, but not for those killed by your God, which number many times more?

Sure thing.

And like most pro-choice people, I would be perfectly happy if the only abortions we did were the ones we had to. It's why I'd hand out birth control like candy, but you oppose that as well, right?

You have proof that God is killing people?

Of course not. You're just another mentally ill hysteric who gets off.on the thought of vulnerable.women with their feet in the stirrups, getting their uteruses scraped by dirty tools.

Vulnerable women?!?!? My god what a self-righteous, troll you are! You get that these women having abortion chose to do so, right? I mean, it's not like abortion clinics are drugging these women, and dragging them into perform abortions berfore they even know what's happening! They are making. A. Choice.

Oh look, a misogynist justifying the abuse and exploitation of vulnerable women.

Any woman who is pregnant is vulnerable, baby killer. And more than 60 percent of women who get abortions are coerced.

 

[koshergrl]

"
Up to 64% of abortions involve coercion. A study published in a major international medical journal found that 64% of American women who had abortions felt pressured by others.(1) Coercion can include loss of home, job or family, and even violent assault.(2)

Up to 83% wanted to have the baby. In a survey of women who sought help after abortion, 83% said they would have carried to term if they had received support from the baby’s father, their family, or other important people in their lives.(3)

In 95% of cases, men play a central role in the decision to abort according to a survey of women at abortion clinics.(4)

Husbands and boyfriends threaten women at the clinic. A former abortion clinic security guard testified before the Massachusetts legislature that women were routinely threatened and abused by the husbands and boyfriends who took them to the clinics to make sure they had abortions.(5)"

Citations

1. VM Rue et. al., “Induced abortion and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10): SR5-16, 2004.
2. See the special report, “Forced Abortion in America,” at www.unchoice.info/resources.htm.
3. D. Reardon, Aborted Women, Silent No More (Springfield: IL, Acorn Books, 2002)
4. M.K. Zimmerman, Psassages Through Abortion (New York: Praeger Publishers, 1977)
5. Brian McQuarrie, “Guard, clinic at odds at abortion hearing,” Boston Globe, April 16, 1999.

Statistics on Coerced Abortions - ClinicQuotes

That's how grown ups talk.

 

[Czernobog]

Baby killer? Like your God, who lets half of all conceptions die?

We invented Induced Abortion, He invented Spontaneous Abortion. He performs many times as many as we do.

Nonsense, baby killing anti Christian loon. Obviously you, like most progressive death cultists, cannot conceive of the difference between death by natural causes, and murder. Your failure to mark the difference is what identifies you as a disgusting mentally ll sociopath who should be.locked.up...for your own safety, and the.safety of others.

You cry for the fetuses we terminate, but not for those killed by your God, which number many times more?

Sure thing.

And like most pro-choice people, I would be perfectly happy if the only abortions we did were the ones we had to. It's why I'd hand out birth control like candy, but you oppose that as well, right?

You have proof that God is killing people?

Of course not. You're just another mentally ill hysteric who gets off.on the thought of vulnerable.women with their feet in the stirrups, getting their uteruses scraped by dirty tools.

Vulnerable women?!?!? My god what a self-righteous, troll you are! You get that these women having abortion chose to do so, right? I mean, it's not like abortion clinics are drugging these women, and dragging them into perform abortions berfore they even know what's happening! They are making. A. Choice.

Oh look, a misogynist justifying the abuse and exploitation of vulnerable women.

Any woman who is pregnant is vulnerable, baby killer. And more than 60 percent of women who get abortions are coerced.

I assume you have a source for that absurd claim?

Never mind. Next post.

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[koshergrl]

Nonsense, baby killing anti Christian loon. Obviously you, like most progressive death cultists, cannot conceive of the difference between death by natural causes, and murder. Your failure to mark the difference is what identifies you as a disgusting mentally ll sociopath who should be.locked.up...for your own safety, and the.safety of others.

You cry for the fetuses we terminate, but not for those killed by your God, which number many times more?

Sure thing.

And like most pro-choice people, I would be perfectly happy if the only abortions we did were the ones we had to. It's why I'd hand out birth control like candy, but you oppose that as well, right?

You have proof that God is killing people?

Of course not. You're just another mentally ill hysteric who gets off.on the thought of vulnerable.women with their feet in the stirrups, getting their uteruses scraped by dirty tools.

Vulnerable women?!?!? My god what a self-righteous, troll you are! You get that these women having abortion chose to do so, right? I mean, it's not like abortion clinics are drugging these women, and dragging them into perform abortions berfore they even know what's happening! They are making. A. Choice.

Oh look, a misogynist justifying the abuse and exploitation of vulnerable women.

Any woman who is pregnant is vulnerable, baby killer. And more than 60 percent of women who get abortions are coerced.

I assume you have a source for that absurd claim?

Never mind. Next post.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Already posted.

 

[koshergrl]

I know what a parasite is. I was responding to the comment that the fetus was totally dependent for all functions. Not true. Learn to read, baby killer.

Baby killer? Like your God, who lets half of all conceptions die?

We invented Induced Abortion, He invented Spontaneous Abortion. He performs many times as many as we do.

Nonsense, baby killing anti Christian loon. Obviously you, like most progressive death cultists, cannot conceive of the difference between death by natural causes, and murder. Your failure to mark the difference is what identifies you as a disgusting mentally ll sociopath who should be.locked.up...for your own safety, and the.safety of others.

You cry for the fetuses we terminate, but not for those killed by your God, which number many times more?

Sure thing.

And like most pro-choice people, I would be perfectly happy if the only abortions we did were the ones we had to. It's why I'd hand out birth control like candy, but you oppose that as well, right?

You have proof that God is killing people?

Of course not. You're just another mentally ill hysteric who gets off.on the thought of vulnerable.women with their feet in the stirrups, getting their uteruses scraped by dirty tools.

Vulnerable women?!?!? My god what a self-righteous, troll you are! You get that these women having abortion chose to do so, right? I mean, it's not like abortion clinics are drugging these women, and dragging them into perform abortions berfore they even know what's happening! They are making. A. Choice.

"...
in the case of abortion, an entire industry will steamroll over anything that gets in the way of their profit centers. Take Amanda Marcotte. She writes:
[iframe name="google_ads_iframe_/1011927/TFC_300_by_600_0" width="300" height="600" title="3rd party ad content" id="google_ads_iframe_/1011927/TFC_300_by_600_0" src="javascript:"[/iframe]

So the amount of conspiracy theorist bullshit around Planned Parenthood is growing dramatically, as Fox News is adding the anti-choice myth that women don’t choose abortion, but are forced into it by an evil feminist/male pervert/gynecologist conspiracy to make women, uh, ‘sexually available.’

This claim that women do not choose abortion, but are coerced into it, was drafted for politically convenient reasons. Anti-choicers realize that by claiming that abortion is ‘murder’, they are arguing that 3 out of 10 women in the United States should be in prison serving a life sentence—or even, by their own measure, be slated for a death sentence.

Now, to be clear, they don’t really believe it’s murder. That’s just a typical right wing hyperbolic story that paints them as the good guys to cover up for their true intentions… it basically, without saying it, still conveys their usually unspoken ideas about women and sex: That women are (or should be, anyway) not interested in sex. Liking sex for its own sake is often euphemistically called ‘acting like men’.

"Good Gravy! Is there anyone the abortion industry won’t throw under the bus? Suddenly women are never abused, never coerced, never vulnerable, never pressured, (never raped?). Like Soviet-style murals of heroic agricultural workers, women are all strong, brave, and unafraid! They all stride boldly across the stage of sexual politics.

"Yet at the same time, there is a fearsome “rape culture” on college campuses, women can’t manage to pay for their own birth control, they must be protected against every “microaggression” that rears its ugly head, and run to “safe rooms” where they can watch videos of puppies at play to recover from the assault of a speech by Christina Summers.

"Meanwhile, in the real world, the one not populated by cardboard cutouts of cartoon characters, there is a real problem of bullying and abuse. Some not-small numbers of the victims are newly pregnant women and girls who are not allowed to be “pro-choice” because someone else has already decided their fate."

How Many Women Are Pressured Into Abortions?

Members of the death cult of abortion don't let the needs of vulnerable women get in the way of their desire to reduce the population..starting first with those least able to defend themselves...poor pregnant women, and children.

 

[Jack4jill]

Baby killer? Like your God, who lets half of all conceptions die?

We invented Induced Abortion, He invented Spontaneous Abortion. He performs many times as many as we do.

Nonsense, baby killing anti Christian loon. Obviously you, like most progressive death cultists, cannot conceive of the difference between death by natural causes, and murder. Your failure to mark the difference is what identifies you as a disgusting mentally ll sociopath who should be.locked.up...for your own safety, and the.safety of others.

You cry for the fetuses we terminate, but not for those killed by your God, which number many times more?

Sure thing.

And like most pro-choice people, I would be perfectly happy if the only abortions we did were the ones we had to. It's why I'd hand out birth control like candy, but you oppose that as well, right?

You have proof that God is killing people?

Of course not. You're just another mentally ill hysteric who gets off.on the thought of vulnerable.women with their feet in the stirrups, getting their uteruses scraped by dirty tools.

Proof? Of course I have proof.

Vast numbers of what would have been a baby cruelly flushed from their mothers' wombs, by the inventor of abortion, God, who could make all of that go away.

There's a Baby Killer around alright, but based on the numbers it ain't mankind. It is the inventor of abortion, God.

You have proof that God exists??

Awesome. Let me call the.pope. He isntw going to believe this.

He's your God. Did he create spontaneous abortion, or not?

 

[koshergrl]

Nonsense, baby killing anti Christian loon. Obviously you, like most progressive death cultists, cannot conceive of the difference between death by natural causes, and murder. Your failure to mark the difference is what identifies you as a disgusting mentally ll sociopath who should be.locked.up...for your own safety, and the.safety of others.

You cry for the fetuses we terminate, but not for those killed by your God, which number many times more?

Sure thing.

And like most pro-choice people, I would be perfectly happy if the only abortions we did were the ones we had to. It's why I'd hand out birth control like candy, but you oppose that as well, right?

You have proof that God is killing people?

Of course not. You're just another mentally ill hysteric who gets off.on the thought of vulnerable.women with their feet in the stirrups, getting their uteruses scraped by dirty tools.

Proof? Of course I have proof.

Vast numbers of what would have been a baby cruelly flushed from their mothers' wombs, by the inventor of abortion, God, who could make all of that go away.

There's a Baby Killer around alright, but based on the numbers it ain't mankind. It is the inventor of abortion, God.

You have proof that God exists??

Awesome. Let me call the.pope. He isntw going to believe this.

He's your God. Did he create spontaneous abortion, or not?

So you maintain that God exists. That's nice, but it has nothing to do with whether or not we should abuse women and children. Your weird musings on why we should blame God for abortion has nothing to do with whether or not we should victimize women and children OURSELVES. And I didn't bring up God in this thread, you did. So you need to prove that God exists, before you can make the argument that God kills babies, so we should, too. And even then, that would be a totally different discussion than this one.

Get thee to the religions forum, thou mentally ill asshat. Join your fellow ignorami, guano, in posting nonsensical garbage.

 

[Mertex]

Right now they don't. Remember....Roe v Wade was passed a long time ago, and it hasn't gone away. It is legal to have an abortion.

It has the potential to become a person, if he/she is ever born....just like an egg has the potential to become a chicken, if someone doesn't eat it before it is hatched.

First Roe wasn't passed by any legislature, it was decided by 7 people.

Roe v Wade was passed by the Supreme Court...so I don't understand what your point is.

All rulings issued by the Supreme Court are final, unless they are overturned by subsequent Supreme Court rulings.
The Supreme Court: the Laws of the Land


In a historic decision, the U.S. Supreme Court rules in Roe v. Wade that women, as part of their constitutional right to privacy, can terminate a pregnancy during its first two trimesters. Only during the last trimester, when the fetus can survive outside the womb, would states be permitted to regulate abortion of a healthy pregnancy.
Supreme Court legalizes abortion - Jan 22, 1973 - HISTORY.com

Second, the premise of the thread is that abortion is murder.

Murder is a crime and is punishable by law. Abortion is legal, therefore not punishable by law, ergo, not murder.

Third a baby has a heartbeat and basic brain functions as early as 6 weeks gestation and can be viable as early as 23 weeks.

It's not a baby, it is a fetus, until it is born. All of that (except viability) was considered at the time the law was passed. Viability was not that strong at 23 weeks when Roe v Wade was passed as I am sure we have made major medical advances. Most states have laws limiting elective abortions beyond 20 weeks.

Fourth and finally, commercial chicken eggs have not been fertilized, so no possibly to become a chicken.

Many eggs that are fertilized are sold for consumption. So, while your statement may be partially true, it is not completely true, and if you were to buy eggs directly from a farmer, you most certainly will be eating a fertilized egg.


One question floating among avid egg-eaters is if fertilized eggs are safe for consumption. The answer is yes. It is perfectly okay to eat fertilized eggs. Also, as mentioned in the previous paragraphs, once the fertilized egg is stored inside the fridge, the embryo no longer undergoes any change or development. Rest assured that you can eat your fertilized chicken eggs just fine like the unfertilized ones.
Facts about Fertilized Chicken Eggs : Fertile Chicken Eggs | Chicken Egg Incubators


We sell fertilized chicken eggs,
Fertilized eggs for hatching and eating

And finally, even a single cell organism is alive by scientific standards. What you don't appear to know could fill volumes.

Well, it appears that you don't really know as much as you think you do......would fill volumes....

I guess neither you or the OP understand what the premise of a hypothetical is. So feel free to carry on in your ignorance.

Right now they don't. Remember....Roe v Wade was passed a long time ago, and it hasn't gone away. It is legal to have an abortion.

It has the potential to become a person, if he/she is ever born....just like an egg has the potential to become a chicken, if someone doesn't eat it before it is hatched.

First Roe wasn't passed by any legislature, it was decided by 7 people.

Roe v Wade was passed by the Supreme Court...so I don't understand what your point is.

All rulings issued by the Supreme Court are final, unless they are overturned by subsequent Supreme Court rulings.
The Supreme Court: the Laws of the Land


In a historic decision, the U.S. Supreme Court rules in Roe v. Wade that women, as part of their constitutional right to privacy, can terminate a pregnancy during its first two trimesters. Only during the last trimester, when the fetus can survive outside the womb, would states be permitted to regulate abortion of a healthy pregnancy.
Supreme Court legalizes abortion - Jan 22, 1973 - HISTORY.com

Second, the premise of the thread is that abortion is murder.

Murder is a crime and is punishable by law. Abortion is legal, therefore not punishable by law, ergo, not murder.

Third a baby has a heartbeat and basic brain functions as early as 6 weeks gestation and can be viable as early as 23 weeks.

It's not a baby, it is a fetus, until it is born. All of that (except viability) was considered at the time the law was passed. Viability was not that strong at 23 weeks when Roe v Wade was passed as I am sure we have made major medical advances. Most states have laws limiting elective abortions beyond 20 weeks.

Fourth and finally, commercial chicken eggs have not been fertilized, so no possibly to become a chicken.

Many eggs that are fertilized are sold for consumption. So, while your statement may be partially true, it is not completely true, and if you were to buy eggs directly from a farmer, you most certainly will be eating a fertilized egg.


One question floating among avid egg-eaters is if fertilized eggs are safe for consumption. The answer is yes. It is perfectly okay to eat fertilized eggs. Also, as mentioned in the previous paragraphs, once the fertilized egg is stored inside the fridge, the embryo no longer undergoes any change or development. Rest assured that you can eat your fertilized chicken eggs just fine like the unfertilized ones.
Facts about Fertilized Chicken Eggs : Fertile Chicken Eggs | Chicken Egg Incubators


We sell fertilized chicken eggs,
Fertilized eggs for hatching and eating

And finally, even a single cell organism is alive by scientific standards. What you don't appear to know could fill volumes.

Well, it appears that you don't really know as much as you think you do......would fill volumes....

I guess neither you or the OP understand what the premise of a hypothetical is. So feel free to carry on in your ignorance.

Their is nothing hypothetical about calling an unborn a fetus....it is fact. There is nothing hypothetical about fertilized eggs being sold for consumption. And by what statement do you deduct that I don't know that a single cell organism is alive by scientific standards? Where did I say that wasn't the case? Where was "single cell organism" even mentioned in my post?

And you strayed from the OP's original hypothetical statement...so don't use that as an excuse when your ignorance is pointed out.

So you agree that any abortion kills a living developing child?

Don't be ignorant. It is not a child at 20 weeks.....geez.....I bet you scramble chickens for breakfast every morning.

BTW, whens the last time you heard of a pregnant woman being referred to as being "with fetus"?

It doesn't matter what someone wants to refer to it....the scientific name for it is fetus. You ignorant conservatives want to call a fertilized egg a person.....even before it drops down to the uterus, still doesn't make it a person.

People always refer to a woman as being "with child". But hey, you're the regressive sodomite enabler, so just keep on being you, and I'll do the same.

Ignoramus.....pregnant women who want to give birth, refer to the fetus as their baby and being with child......that doesn't make a fertilized egg a baby or a child. But keep on using semantics to try and prove your point.....science may be too difficult for you.

And, no, conservatives are the regressives.....remember, you all want to go back to the 50's.

 

[Andylusion]

Now, I have to admit. I posed this question on a different forum, and only one anti-choice fanatic was willing to respond...

...and his responses were both frightening, and disturbing.

Both should be tried for murder. What do you think should happen for someone who puts an innocent human being to death?

Again, I have to say that I am impressed with the new forum that I am calling "home". The conservatives here are much more courageous than on the last forum I posted on. So, I guess my next question is, when are you guess going to start demanding that your chosen political representatives stop being pussies, and start publicly demanding this? When are you going to demand that your politicians stop going after doctors, exclusively with their legislation, and start holding women responsible for their choices?

Well I don't have a problem speaking the truth, even if I am the extreme minority. That said, I also am aware and accept, that I am the minority.

In other words, politicians do not answer to demands. Politicians hold views of their own. We choose to support politicians which hold views close to our own.

For example, my Senator here in Ohio is Rob Portman. Now I can yell at Mr Portman, but he is his own man. He's not my personal robot. And he will likely say "I don't believe in that". And that would be the end of my demands that he support whatever I want. Now he still overall, generally has similar views to my own, which is why I support him.

And with all due honesty, despite the claims by the left that politicians should just bow to the crazy whims of society, I personally wouldn't even want to vote for a politician that was spineless, and stood for nothing, and blowing in the wind to whoever is yelling the loudest.

Moreover, I am possibly a minority in another way, in that I don't believe in trying to force a minority view, on the entire society. In other words, I accept that we are not, and have not been for some time, a Christian nation. While we still have one of the largest populations of dedicated Christians, we are no longer a fundamental Christian nation.

As such, I don't believe in going around yelling at pagans, for acting like pagans. Pagans kill their young. That's what they do. Why should a pagan, who thinks murdering their child is normal, and is not murder, stop doing that because some Christian with views they don't accept, starts screaming at them?

That makes no sense. Now I'll talk to a pagan, and argue they shouldn't murder their young... and if they accept that, then I would expect them to stop. But if they don't.... why would they stop?

So while I would generally vote for anyone whose views match my own, I don't expect Rob Portman to send millions to prison for murder. At least not until the whole of society agrees that murdering your child is wrong. Since that isn't likely to happen, I don't expect anything more on the matter.

Now you might ask.... if I believe that, why did I answer your original question the way I did?

Quite simply, because you presented a hypothetical where the assumption was an acceptance that murdering children is wrong. You said "Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder."

With that as the premise.... where everyone accepts that as truth.... then the answer is obvious. Murder is murder. What do you do with murderers? You send them to prison.

In real life, not everyone accepts that truth. It's still true.... but the fact is people don't accept the truth. "Depends on how you define 'is'" - Bill Clinton. Right? So as long as society as a whole accepts pagans murdering their own children... I'm not going to interfere.

Think about it. Who did Jesus confront? Did he run around to the Romans who were doing all kinds of crazy things? No. You don't see Jesus yelling at Romans. He only yelled at other Jews. People who claimed to be of the faith, but were not practicing it. I'm far more likely to yell at Christians for murdering their children. But pagans.... their pagans... I don't expect them to not act like pagans.

So, behind all of the subtle insults, and moral judgements, am I to understand that politically you are pro-choice?

I said I would vote for whomever closely matches my own personal views. But I don't go around screaming and yelling, when false views prevail. Remember according to your own statement, we accept the fact that murdering a child is..... murder. Why would anyone be "pro-choice-to-murder"?

I have no intention of insulting you. You asked my opinion, and I gave it. If my opinion is insulting, that is your problem. Not mine.

I will continue to vote for whomever best fits my views. But I understand that the majority opinion of our pagan country, is murdering children is acceptable.

If the majority changes to believe that murder is wrong, then perhaps we can make murdering children illegal again. I doubt that will happen. And accept that fact. But no, I'll never support the idea that "It's my right to murder my child!".

 

[Andylusion]

First Roe wasn't passed by any legislature, it was decided by 7 people.

Roe v Wade was passed by the Supreme Court...so I don't understand what your point is.

All rulings issued by the Supreme Court are final, unless they are overturned by subsequent Supreme Court rulings.
The Supreme Court: the Laws of the Land


In a historic decision, the U.S. Supreme Court rules in Roe v. Wade that women, as part of their constitutional right to privacy, can terminate a pregnancy during its first two trimesters. Only during the last trimester, when the fetus can survive outside the womb, would states be permitted to regulate abortion of a healthy pregnancy.
Supreme Court legalizes abortion - Jan 22, 1973 - HISTORY.com

Second, the premise of the thread is that abortion is murder.

Murder is a crime and is punishable by law. Abortion is legal, therefore not punishable by law, ergo, not murder.

Third a baby has a heartbeat and basic brain functions as early as 6 weeks gestation and can be viable as early as 23 weeks.

It's not a baby, it is a fetus, until it is born. All of that (except viability) was considered at the time the law was passed. Viability was not that strong at 23 weeks when Roe v Wade was passed as I am sure we have made major medical advances. Most states have laws limiting elective abortions beyond 20 weeks.

If I did a DNA test on a scrambled egg (before being cooked obviously)... would it be a chicken, or magically not?

If I did a DNA test on a baby at 23 weeks, would it be human, or not?

It's always funny to watch pagans claim that science disproves 'god' but then turn right around and base all their morality on the most unscientific of positions.

 

[Andylusion]

I know what a parasite is. I was responding to the comment that the fetus was totally dependent for all functions. Not true. Learn to read, baby killer.

Baby killer? Like your God, who lets half of all conceptions die?

We invented Induced Abortion, He invented Spontaneous Abortion. He performs many times as many as we do.

Nonsense, baby killing anti Christian loon. Obviously you, like most progressive death cultists, cannot conceive of the difference between death by natural causes, and murder. Your failure to mark the difference is what identifies you as a disgusting mentally ll sociopath who should be.locked.up...for your own safety, and the.safety of others.

You cry for the fetuses we terminate, but not for those killed by your God, which number many times more?

Sure thing.

And like most pro-choice people, I would be perfectly happy if the only abortions we did were the ones we had to. It's why I'd hand out birth control like candy, but you oppose that as well, right?

You have proof that God is killing people?

Of course not. You're just another mentally ill hysteric who gets off.on the thought of vulnerable.women with their feet in the stirrups, getting their uteruses scraped by dirty tools.

Vulnerable women?!?!? My god what a self-righteous, troll you are! You get that these women having abortion chose to do so, right? I mean, it's not like abortion clinics are drugging these women, and dragging them into perform abortions berfore they even know what's happening! They are making. A. Choice.

The pro-death majority of our culture promotes this to women. Men who wish to have sex without responsibility promote this to women.

Women are influenced and convinced that having an abortion is nothing and won't cause them harm. However, in my 38 years of roaming this planet, I have yet to meet one single woman who had an abortion.... which did not regret it.

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."

Women that murder their child, reap the consequences. Yeah they made a choice. But they were also deceived by the evil people who convinced them there would not be any consequences.

 

[Chuz Life]

First Roe wasn't passed by any legislature, it was decided by 7 people.

Roe v Wade was passed by the Supreme Court...so I don't understand what your point is.

All rulings issued by the Supreme Court are final, unless they are overturned by subsequent Supreme Court rulings.
The Supreme Court: the Laws of the Land


In a historic decision, the U.S. Supreme Court rules in Roe v. Wade that women, as part of their constitutional right to privacy, can terminate a pregnancy during its first two trimesters. Only during the last trimester, when the fetus can survive outside the womb, would states be permitted to regulate abortion of a healthy pregnancy.
Supreme Court legalizes abortion - Jan 22, 1973 - HISTORY.com

Second, the premise of the thread is that abortion is murder.

Murder is a crime and is punishable by law. Abortion is legal, therefore not punishable by law, ergo, not murder.

Third a baby has a heartbeat and basic brain functions as early as 6 weeks gestation and can be viable as early as 23 weeks.

It's not a baby, it is a fetus, until it is born. All of that (except viability) was considered at the time the law was passed. Viability was not that strong at 23 weeks when Roe v Wade was passed as I am sure we have made major medical advances. Most states have laws limiting elective abortions beyond 20 weeks.

Fourth and finally, commercial chicken eggs have not been fertilized, so no possibly to become a chicken.

Many eggs that are fertilized are sold for consumption. So, while your statement may be partially true, it is not completely true, and if you were to buy eggs directly from a farmer, you most certainly will be eating a fertilized egg.


One question floating among avid egg-eaters is if fertilized eggs are safe for consumption. The answer is yes. It is perfectly okay to eat fertilized eggs. Also, as mentioned in the previous paragraphs, once the fertilized egg is stored inside the fridge, the embryo no longer undergoes any change or development. Rest assured that you can eat your fertilized chicken eggs just fine like the unfertilized ones.
Facts about Fertilized Chicken Eggs : Fertile Chicken Eggs | Chicken Egg Incubators


We sell fertilized chicken eggs,
Fertilized eggs for hatching and eating

And finally, even a single cell organism is alive by scientific standards. What you don't appear to know could fill volumes.

Well, it appears that you don't really know as much as you think you do......would fill volumes....

I guess neither you or the OP understand what the premise of a hypothetical is. So feel free to carry on in your ignorance.

First Roe wasn't passed by any legislature, it was decided by 7 people.

Roe v Wade was passed by the Supreme Court...so I don't understand what your point is.

All rulings issued by the Supreme Court are final, unless they are overturned by subsequent Supreme Court rulings.
The Supreme Court: the Laws of the Land


In a historic decision, the U.S. Supreme Court rules in Roe v. Wade that women, as part of their constitutional right to privacy, can terminate a pregnancy during its first two trimesters. Only during the last trimester, when the fetus can survive outside the womb, would states be permitted to regulate abortion of a healthy pregnancy.
Supreme Court legalizes abortion - Jan 22, 1973 - HISTORY.com

Second, the premise of the thread is that abortion is murder.

Murder is a crime and is punishable by law. Abortion is legal, therefore not punishable by law, ergo, not murder.

Third a baby has a heartbeat and basic brain functions as early as 6 weeks gestation and can be viable as early as 23 weeks.

It's not a baby, it is a fetus, until it is born. All of that (except viability) was considered at the time the law was passed. Viability was not that strong at 23 weeks when Roe v Wade was passed as I am sure we have made major medical advances. Most states have laws limiting elective abortions beyond 20 weeks.

Fourth and finally, commercial chicken eggs have not been fertilized, so no possibly to become a chicken.

Many eggs that are fertilized are sold for consumption. So, while your statement may be partially true, it is not completely true, and if you were to buy eggs directly from a farmer, you most certainly will be eating a fertilized egg.


One question floating among avid egg-eaters is if fertilized eggs are safe for consumption. The answer is yes. It is perfectly okay to eat fertilized eggs. Also, as mentioned in the previous paragraphs, once the fertilized egg is stored inside the fridge, the embryo no longer undergoes any change or development. Rest assured that you can eat your fertilized chicken eggs just fine like the unfertilized ones.
Facts about Fertilized Chicken Eggs : Fertile Chicken Eggs | Chicken Egg Incubators


We sell fertilized chicken eggs,
Fertilized eggs for hatching and eating

And finally, even a single cell organism is alive by scientific standards. What you don't appear to know could fill volumes.

Well, it appears that you don't really know as much as you think you do......would fill volumes....

I guess neither you or the OP understand what the premise of a hypothetical is. So feel free to carry on in your ignorance.

Their is nothing hypothetical about calling an unborn a fetus....it is fact. There is nothing hypothetical about fertilized eggs being sold for consumption. And by what statement do you deduct that I don't know that a single cell organism is alive by scientific standards? Where did I say that wasn't the case? Where was "single cell organism" even mentioned in my post?

And you strayed from the OP's original hypothetical statement...so don't use that as an excuse when your ignorance is pointed out.

So you agree that any abortion kills a living developing child?

Don't be ignorant. It is not a child at 20 weeks.....geez.....I bet you scramble chickens for breakfast every morning.

BTW, whens the last time you heard of a pregnant woman being referred to as being "with fetus"?

It doesn't matter what someone wants to refer to it....the scientific name for it is fetus. You ignorant conservatives want to call a fertilized egg a person.....even before it drops down to the uterus, still doesn't make it a person.

People always refer to a woman as being "with child". But hey, you're the regressive sodomite enabler, so just keep on being you, and I'll do the same.

Ignoramus.....pregnant women who want to give birth, refer to the fetus as their baby and being with child......that doesn't make a fertilized egg a baby or a child. But keep on using semantics to try and prove your point.....science may be too difficult for you.

And, no, conservatives are the regressives.....remember, you all want to go back to the 50's.

Our Fetal Homicide Laws prove completely against your denials.
"(d) As used in this section, the term “unborn child” means a child in utero, and the term “child in utero” or “child, who is in utero” means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

 

[HenryBHough]

I don't mind aggressive discussion, and debate. But you two jackasses have demonstrated that you are such raging extremist Right Wing loons that you are not even worthy of acknowledgement. HenryBHough, and Bob Blaylock: Welcome to my ignore pile, and do feel free to go fuck yourselves.

Please, butterfly, you will be unable to resist responding despite your empty protestation. When you do so please tell us why you consider the killing of a virulent pest "slaughter" but not the murder of an innocent child.