A question for the anti-choice crowd.

[Jack4jill]

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

Well a baby isn't a teenager either. A teenager isn't an adult. A senior citizen isn't an infant. Science already knows that as well, right?

Yes.

person

Personhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And abortion was legal long before 1973. Most of the time it wasn't even mentioned in the law.

 

[Jack4jill]

Dummies. And of course, they won't pay up.
Louisiana Senate votes to ban abortions based on abnormality

Welcome to Wrongful Birth suits.

 

[Boss]

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

Well a baby isn't a teenager either. A teenager isn't an adult. A senior citizen isn't an infant. Science already knows that as well, right?

Yes.

person

Personhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And abortion was legal long before 1973. Most of the time it wasn't even mentioned in the law.

I appreciate your effort in providing links that prove my point. It's rare that I come across such an adversary at USMB. Most of the time, they avoid proving my point for me... so it's refreshing to find someone who isn't afraid to do so. As you'll notice in both the links you posted, the word "person" is ambiguous and can mean a variety of things. There is no set clinical or scientific definition of what a "person" is or what constitutes a "person." Most of the definitions I saw at those links state that a person is a human being... if that's the case, a fetus is a person because a fetus is a human being.

And when abortion became legal doesn't really matter to me... that wasn't the argument. We were talking about "murder" and that is the unlawful premeditated act of one human taking the life of another. So the only way an abortion can be murder is if abortion is illegal. If abortion was legal long before 1973, then abortion was not murder long before 1973.

 

[Jack4jill]

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

Well a baby isn't a teenager either. A teenager isn't an adult. A senior citizen isn't an infant. Science already knows that as well, right?

Yes.

person

Personhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And abortion was legal long before 1973. Most of the time it wasn't even mentioned in the law.

I appreciate your effort in providing links that prove my point. It's rare that I come across such an adversary at USMB. Most of the time, they avoid proving my point for me... so it's refreshing to find someone who isn't afraid to do so. As you'll notice in both the links you posted, the word "person" is ambiguous and can mean a variety of things. There is no set clinical or scientific definition of what a "person" is or what constitutes a "person." Most of the definitions I saw at those links state that a person is a human being... if that's the case, a fetus is a person because a fetus is a human being.

And when abortion became legal doesn't really matter to me... that wasn't the argument. We were talking about "murder" and that is the unlawful premeditated act of one human taking the life of another. So the only way an abortion can be murder is if abortion is illegal. If abortion was legal long before 1973, then abortion was not murder long before 1973.

A fetus is a fetus. That's why it has the funny name.

Is it a person? Not as far as the law is concerned, in most cases. It won't keep you from getting a ticket in the HOV lane that's for sure. And you don't have to buy a seat for it on an airplane like you do for a baby.

Also, no Social Security card and no tax deduction for it. It's not counted in the US Census either. I could go on, but why bother.

 

[Boss]

A fetus is a fetus. That's why it has the funny name.

Is it a person? Not as far as the law is concerned, in most cases. It won't keep you from getting a ticket in the HOV lane that's for sure. And you don't have to buy a seat for it on an airplane like you do for a baby.

Also, no Social Security card and no tax deductions. It's not counted in the US Census either. I could go on, but why bother.

Well, according to the The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004, the unborn fetus does have legal rights as a person. But we're not really having a debate on whether or not a fetus is legally protected by the constitution. I believe at a certain point it should be protected just as every citizen is protected. I would put that point at somewhere around the first trimester. But currently, that's not the law and that's why the law should be changed.

I really don't understand "a fetus is a fetus, that's why it has a funny name" ...that makes no sense to me. Geriatric is a funny name... adolescent is a funny name... octogenarian is a funny name... all kinds of human beings in various stages of development can have funny names... it does not change what they are. You seem to think a fetus is not a human being and you've offered absolutely no scientific proof in all of these pages to support that contention.

 

[Chuz Life]

As per Fetal development: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia the heart doesn't even begin to develop until the 5th week, and the liver is not producing blood cells until between the 11th to the 14th week.

So, how is a fetus pumping it's own blood when it doesn't even produce blood?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Bwawawawawawawawa!

I loved reading this from your own link that you just provided.

"Learn how your BABY is conceived and how your BABY develops inside the mother's womb."

PRICELESS!

What's priceless is that it refuted every ignorant thing you said about the fetal process.

You are dismissed.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You haven't refuted anything of the sort. Were I to be at my computer instead of on a phone. I would continue your education on the facts about the fetal circulatory system .

But you still show no signs of being able to concede even the smallest of points, so I am in no hurry.

Still laughing about the baby thing and the link you posted.

That was fucking hilarious.

Oh? What kind of phone do you post with that lets you access this website but not others?

It's not a problem with the phone so much as it is with my eyes and my being unfamiliar with all the functions to cut and paste, add hyperlinks, etc.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you are against sex with children you too are anti-choice. Anyone can use your stupid rhetoric to try to bolster their case. It isn't the right that's inconsistent here, it's the left. The right tends to want to limit abortion to need and not use it as a form of birth control. State sanctioned killing is reserved for those that earned it. Murder means unjustified, go ahead and look it up since words confuse you.

Also, if a woman wants her baby and is stabbed, let's say, and it's killed, or they both are, the perp is charged with homicide or two counts homicide respectively. Now ponder that and get back to us with an explanation that makes sense if you can.

Doesn't it make a difference what trimester the woman is in?

It depends on the state exactly when, that's why defining it a fetus one moment and a baby the next makes no sense. Very few would agree it's only a baby when it exits the mother's body.

 

[Chuz Life]

A fetus being a person isn't science. Like a belief in God, it's dogma.

A fetus is a human being... I don't know what a "person" is... it's ambiguous terminology that can mean virtually anything you want it to mean.

Legally, a natural person is simply "a human being" and it is because the Constitution refers to the rights of 'persons' that it matters so much.

 

[Chuz Life]

A fetus being a person isn't science. Like a belief in God, it's dogma.

A fetus is a human being... I don't know what a "person" is... it's ambiguous terminology that can mean virtually anything you want it to mean.

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

A fetus can't be murdered?

Try selling that shit to the defense attorney's for those already doing time in jail for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

You should get top dollar!

 

[Faun]

A fetus is a fetus. That's why it has the funny name.

Is it a person? Not as far as the law is concerned, in most cases. It won't keep you from getting a ticket in the HOV lane that's for sure. And you don't have to buy a seat for it on an airplane like you do for a baby.

Also, no Social Security card and no tax deductions. It's not counted in the US Census either. I could go on, but why bother.

I believe at a certain point it should be protected just as every citizen is protected. I would put that point at somewhere around the first trimester. But currently, that's not the law and that's why the law should be changed.

Tell me you're not suggesting fetuses be granted citizenship?

 

[Jack4jill]

A fetus being a person isn't science. Like a belief in God, it's dogma.

A fetus is a human being... I don't know what a "person" is... it's ambiguous terminology that can mean virtually anything you want it to mean.

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

A fetus can't be murdered?

Try selling that shit to the defense attorney's for those already doing time in jail for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

You should get top dollar!

There aren't many, and it's impossible.

The host you can murder, not the parasite.

 

[Jack4jill]

A fetus is a fetus. That's why it has the funny name.

Is it a person? Not as far as the law is concerned, in most cases. It won't keep you from getting a ticket in the HOV lane that's for sure. And you don't have to buy a seat for it on an airplane like you do for a baby.

Also, no Social Security card and no tax deductions. It's not counted in the US Census either. I could go on, but why bother.

Well, according to the The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004, the unborn fetus does have legal rights as a person. But we're not really having a debate on whether or not a fetus is legally protected by the constitution. I believe at a certain point it should be protected just as every citizen is protected. I would put that point at somewhere around the first trimester. But currently, that's not the law and that's why the law should be changed.

I really don't understand "a fetus is a fetus, that's why it has a funny name" ...that makes no sense to me. Geriatric is a funny name... adolescent is a funny name... octogenarian is a funny name... all kinds of human beings in various stages of development can have funny names... it does not change what they are. You seem to think a fetus is not a human being and you've offered absolutely no scientific proof in all of these pages to support that contention.

A fetus is always and only a "potential" person. It exists within another.

If you lived within something 30 times your size, but had the same brain, I wouldn't call you a person either.

 

[hadit]

Because it's dumb. When two companies merge, are they still companies, or one?

Do you see one baby cell above, or two?

What I said was dumb?

"Why are you just repeating what I said?

TWO parts, female and male, create ONE new human being.

Within that ONE new human being are female and male, TWO parts."

Once again, things merge; sperm fertilizes egg.

Two sets of 23 chromosomes come together and merge in a single cell to make a new human. That's it.

And that's what dumbass doesn't understand, two become one.

Does that new human have any rights to that new life it is now living? Or, no?

There is no right to life. You make it or you don't.

There is an American Constitutional right to life. Of course, rational people understand that means that the government cannot take that life from you without due process, but please do continue down the road of extreme exaggeration.

 

[Jack4jill]

Because it's dumb. When two companies merge, are they still companies, or one?

Do you see one baby cell above, or two?

What I said was dumb?

"Why are you just repeating what I said?

TWO parts, female and male, create ONE new human being.

Within that ONE new human being are female and male, TWO parts."

Once again, things merge; sperm fertilizes egg.

Two sets of 23 chromosomes come together and merge in a single cell to make a new human. That's it.

And that's what dumbass doesn't understand, two become one.

Does that new human have any rights to that new life it is now living? Or, no?

There is no right to life. You make it or you don't.

There is an American Constitutional right to life. Of course, rational people understand that means that the government cannot take that life from you without due process, but please do continue down the road of extreme exaggeration.

What was the Due Process that protected slaves?

There was none. Non-persons, property. Don't look to the Constitution to help you.

 

[Czernobog]

Because it's dumb. When two companies merge, are they still companies, or one?

Do you see one baby cell above, or two?

What I said was dumb?

"Why are you just repeating what I said?

TWO parts, female and male, create ONE new human being.

Within that ONE new human being are female and male, TWO parts."

Once again, things merge; sperm fertilizes egg.

Two sets of 23 chromosomes come together and merge in a single cell to make a new human. That's it.

And that's what dumbass doesn't understand, two become one.

Does that new human have any rights to that new life it is now living? Or, no?

There is no right to life. You make it or you don't.

There is an American Constitutional right to life. Of course, rational people understand that means that the government cannot take that life from you without due process, but please do continue down the road of extreme exaggeration.

Ya know, you guys really need to get on the same page. When I brought up the Constitution, I was told that this was not a Constitutional issue. Now, here you are bringing up the Constitution.

Okay, Mr. Constitutional Moralist. Elucidate for us where in the Constitution it extends the enumerated within to fetuses. Hell, tell us where it even mentions fetuses. We'll wait...

 

[Chuz Life]

A fetus being a person isn't science. Like a belief in God, it's dogma.

A fetus is a human being... I don't know what a "person" is... it's ambiguous terminology that can mean virtually anything you want it to mean.

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

A fetus can't be murdered?

Try selling that shit to the defense attorney's for those already doing time in jail for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

You should get top dollar!

There aren't many, and it's impossible.

The host you can murder, not the parasite.

Like I said, try selling that denial shit to those already doing time for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

 

[Jack4jill]

A fetus being a person isn't science. Like a belief in God, it's dogma.

A fetus is a human being... I don't know what a "person" is... it's ambiguous terminology that can mean virtually anything you want it to mean.

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

A fetus can't be murdered?

Try selling that shit to the defense attorney's for those already doing time in jail for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

You should get top dollar!

There aren't many, and it's impossible.

The host you can murder, not the parasite.

Like I said, try selling that denial shit to those already doing time for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

They shouldn't be, it's garbage. I can't help the fact we have irrational bad laws on the books, there are many.

 

[hadit]

What I said was dumb?

"Why are you just repeating what I said?

TWO parts, female and male, create ONE new human being.

Within that ONE new human being are female and male, TWO parts."

Once again, things merge; sperm fertilizes egg.

Two sets of 23 chromosomes come together and merge in a single cell to make a new human. That's it.

And that's what dumbass doesn't understand, two become one.

Does that new human have any rights to that new life it is now living? Or, no?

There is no right to life. You make it or you don't.

There is an American Constitutional right to life. Of course, rational people understand that means that the government cannot take that life from you without due process, but please do continue down the road of extreme exaggeration.

What was the Due Process that protected slaves?

There was none. Non-persons, property. Don't look to the Constitution to help you.

And that was corrected, at great cost to the nation. Actually, you make my point, that simply by declaring people to be non-people, we can make more palatable treating them like animals. Thank you.

 

[hadit]

What I said was dumb?

"Why are you just repeating what I said?

TWO parts, female and male, create ONE new human being.

Within that ONE new human being are female and male, TWO parts."

Once again, things merge; sperm fertilizes egg.

Two sets of 23 chromosomes come together and merge in a single cell to make a new human. That's it.

And that's what dumbass doesn't understand, two become one.

Does that new human have any rights to that new life it is now living? Or, no?

There is no right to life. You make it or you don't.

There is an American Constitutional right to life. Of course, rational people understand that means that the government cannot take that life from you without due process, but please do continue down the road of extreme exaggeration.

Ya know, you guys really need to get on the same page. When I brought up the Constitution, I was told that this was not a Constitutional issue. Now, here you are bringing up the Constitution.

Okay, Mr. Constitutional Moralist. Elucidate for us where in the Constitution it extends the enumerated within to fetuses. Hell, tell us where it even mentions fetuses. We'll wait...

It doesn't have to, it mentions people. And, as you are aware, that's the sticking point. As we saw with slaves, if you simply declare that a group of people are not people, you can do basically whatever you want to them. As for what everyone else says, why am I accountable to that? Unlike some, apparently we are capable of independent thought.

 

[hadit]

A fetus is a human being... I don't know what a "person" is... it's ambiguous terminology that can mean virtually anything you want it to mean.

Learn what a person is? And learn what a human being is? You can be human without being a person, like a dead body, You can't murder a dead body even though it's human.

Since a fetus is also not a person, you can't murder it either but you can kill it.

These are legal things more than science. Science already knows a fetus isn't a baby, you don't.

A fetus can't be murdered?

Try selling that shit to the defense attorney's for those already doing time in jail for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

You should get top dollar!

There aren't many, and it's impossible.

The host you can murder, not the parasite.

Like I said, try selling that denial shit to those already doing time for the MURDERS of children in the womb.

They shouldn't be, it's garbage. I can't help the fact we have irrational bad laws on the books, there are many.

But they are still laws, and like, the Roe decision, expected to be followed.