A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[BDBoop]

Dear sweet BDBoop, I never wrote that homosexual desires are a choice. All I wrote is that this behavior should not be celebrated, embraced and encouraged by schools, the mainstream media, the entertainment industry and today's popular culture.

Although homosexual desires may not be a choice, bi-sexuals certainly do have a choice. why are our schools and popular culture encouraging those who have various degrees of bi-sexual desire to experiment with homosexuality which is unhealthy. We do not encourage experimentation with, tobacco, drugs and alcohol which are also unhealthy.

The unpredictable popular culture also celebrate and embrace various forms of "thrill seeking" behavior which are also dangerous including motorcycle riding, skydiving and pot smoking.

Yes you did. If they are born that way, then they are entitled to be married. There is nothing abnormal or unnatural about them. Therefore.

I agree, homosexuals are entitled to be married according to the tradition definition of marriage.

It is an abnormal sexual desire to be attracted to the same sex.

There are many other abnormal sexual desires. Many of them are harmful to others but homosexual behavior between consenting adults is not harmful (except to themselves because of reduced lifespans). Isn't addiction to pornography and addiction to prostitutes abnormal?

Is pedophilia abnormal just because it harms children? Is bestiality abnormal just because it is harmful to animals. The point is that harmful and abnormal are two different things.

For example: It is normal for virtually all parents to hope that their children provide genetic grandchildren for them. Parents of Gay children are always disappointed to some extent when their children do not produce grandchildren. Homosexual children are unlikely to produce grandchildren and it is normal for their loving parents to be disappointed.

Okay, well as long as you agree they have the right to be married, I don't really care about your other four paragraphs, but thanks for playin.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We are fortunate the garyganus of America are having ever less to do with choosing the final decision on universal marriage.

His type of thinking will soon be extinct, America will be a better place, and God will be happier.

 

[garyganu]

Here is a reasonable solution....

Mind your own business.

easy.

Wow, Politics and national debates are not my business according to you. Your comment proves that liberals intend to stifle opposing views.

Did i say that it was none of your business? And since you are new here and know zero about me...why would you assume i am a liberal? Did i tell you to shut up and try and stifle you in any way?

You asked for a reasonable solution.... a reasonable solution is that you mind your business and let others mind theirs. I would not think that was so hard to understand. I used small words and not to many of them.... 4 to be exact.

Are you a liberal, conservative or something in between?

 

[garyganu]

We are fortunate the garyganus of America are having ever less to do with choosing the final decision on universal marriage.

His type of thinking will soon be extinct, America will be a better place, and God will be happier.

If conservative thought is extinguished, America will become extinct.

 

[WinterBorn]

garyganu, you made a challenge and I answered. I notice you refuse to do the same.

I made the following challenge (perhaps you missed it?):

Since I rose to your challenge, let me challenge you. Give me some reasons against gay marriage that do not have to do with religion, and then tell me how allowing gay marriage would effect you at all??

Winterborn, I did not make any arguments based on religion. Please re-read my original post and all of my comments for arguments that do not involve religion.

As for your second question, here is the answer:

"When you celebrate and embrace something that is abnormal and unhealthy, reason and common sense are turned on their heads. As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc."

In today's popular culture, which rejects many social and spiritual restraints, I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude and faith in God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and self esteem.

IMHO, there can be no other possible outcome than our society and culture becoming more corrupt, greedy, lawless, poor, ignorant, powerless, and ultimately more restrained by our fears and/or our government. This is clearly witnessed by the current increase in crime, prisons, corruption, illiteracy, poverty, drug use, intolerance and governmental control in today's America.

Abnormal and unhealthy?
First of all, no where in our laws is "normal" part of the equation. That someone does not toe your line does not make them wrong or bad. If they harm no one, and they break no laws, they are just as valuable a part of our society as you are.

As for the "unhealthy" part, that is simply ridiculous. Unless you can show how homosexuality is unhealthy, and is unhealthy in ways heterosexuals are not, you have no case here either.

Now, as for your rant: "As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc.", WTH??

All of that happens because we allow two consenting adults to marry? All that because two people, who love each other and wish to spend their lives together, are allowed to gain the same benefits that straights enjoy?? Ending bigotry and prejudice will result in all that??


What you either cannot or will not see is that homosexuality exists whether we allow them to marry or not. It is not about sex. It is about a relationship. I did not marry my wife because of sex. And gays will not marry for sex either. It is the relationship between two people that matters.

 

[BDBoop]

That's not conservative thought you're exhibiting. It's fundamentalist.

 

[garyganu]

garyganu, you made a challenge and I answered. I notice you refuse to do the same.

I made the following challenge (perhaps you missed it?):

Since I rose to your challenge, let me challenge you. Give me some reasons against gay marriage that do not have to do with religion, and then tell me how allowing gay marriage would effect you at all??

Winterborn, I did not make any arguments based on religion. Please re-read my original post and all of my comments for arguments that do not involve religion.

As for your second question, here is the answer:

"When you celebrate and embrace something that is abnormal and unhealthy, reason and common sense are turned on their heads. As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc."

In today's popular culture, which rejects many social and spiritual restraints, I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude and faith in God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and self esteem.

IMHO, there can be no other possible outcome than our society and culture becoming more corrupt, greedy, lawless, poor, ignorant, powerless, and ultimately more restrained by our fears and/or our government. This is clearly witnessed by the current increase in crime, prisons, corruption, illiteracy, poverty, drug use, intolerance and governmental control in today's America.

Abnormal and unhealthy?
First of all, no where in our laws is "normal" part of the equation. That someone does not toe your line does not make them wrong or bad. If they harm no one, and they break no laws, they are just as valuable a part of our society as you are.

As for the "unhealthy" part, that is simply ridiculous. Unless you can show how homosexuality is unhealthy, and is unhealthy in ways heterosexuals are not, you have no case here either.

Now, as for your rant: "As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc.", WTH??

All of that happens because we allow two consenting adults to marry? All that because two people, who love each other and wish to spend their lives together, are allowed to gain the same benefits that straights enjoy?? Ending bigotry and prejudice will result in all that??


What you either cannot or will not see is that homosexuality exists whether we allow them to marry or not. It is not about sex. It is about a relationship. I did not marry my wife because of sex. And gays will not marry for sex either. It is the relationship between two people that matters.

I have no objection to gays loving and living with who ever they wish. I only object to the redefinition of marriage. You are making much ado about nothing.

I do not know anyone who object to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please. Do you?

 

[BDBoop]

Winterborn, I did not make any arguments based on religion. Please re-read my original post and all of my comments for arguments that do not involve religion.

As for your second question, here is the answer:

"When you celebrate and embrace something that is abnormal and unhealthy, reason and common sense are turned on their heads. As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc."

In today's popular culture, which rejects many social and spiritual restraints, I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude and faith in God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and self esteem.

IMHO, there can be no other possible outcome than our society and culture becoming more corrupt, greedy, lawless, poor, ignorant, powerless, and ultimately more restrained by our fears and/or our government. This is clearly witnessed by the current increase in crime, prisons, corruption, illiteracy, poverty, drug use, intolerance and governmental control in today's America.

Abnormal and unhealthy?
First of all, no where in our laws is "normal" part of the equation. That someone does not toe your line does not make them wrong or bad. If they harm no one, and they break no laws, they are just as valuable a part of our society as you are.

As for the "unhealthy" part, that is simply ridiculous. Unless you can show how homosexuality is unhealthy, and is unhealthy in ways heterosexuals are not, you have no case here either.

Now, as for your rant: "As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc.", WTH??

All of that happens because we allow two consenting adults to marry? All that because two people, who love each other and wish to spend their lives together, are allowed to gain the same benefits that straights enjoy?? Ending bigotry and prejudice will result in all that??


What you either cannot or will not see is that homosexuality exists whether we allow them to marry or not. It is not about sex. It is about a relationship. I did not marry my wife because of sex. And gays will not marry for sex either. It is the relationship between two people that matters.

I have no objection to gays loving and living with who ever they wish. I only object to the redefinition of marriage. You are making much ado about nothing.

I do not know anyone who object to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please. Do you?

You might want to edit one of your last five posts, which states gays are entitled to marry. After that, you don't have an argument.

 

[WinterBorn]

Winterborn, I did not make any arguments based on religion. Please re-read my original post and all of my comments for arguments that do not involve religion.

As for your second question, here is the answer:

"When you celebrate and embrace something that is abnormal and unhealthy, reason and common sense are turned on their heads. As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc."

In today's popular culture, which rejects many social and spiritual restraints, I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude and faith in God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and self esteem.

IMHO, there can be no other possible outcome than our society and culture becoming more corrupt, greedy, lawless, poor, ignorant, powerless, and ultimately more restrained by our fears and/or our government. This is clearly witnessed by the current increase in crime, prisons, corruption, illiteracy, poverty, drug use, intolerance and governmental control in today's America.

Abnormal and unhealthy?
First of all, no where in our laws is "normal" part of the equation. That someone does not toe your line does not make them wrong or bad. If they harm no one, and they break no laws, they are just as valuable a part of our society as you are.

As for the "unhealthy" part, that is simply ridiculous. Unless you can show how homosexuality is unhealthy, and is unhealthy in ways heterosexuals are not, you have no case here either.

Now, as for your rant: "As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc.", WTH??

All of that happens because we allow two consenting adults to marry? All that because two people, who love each other and wish to spend their lives together, are allowed to gain the same benefits that straights enjoy?? Ending bigotry and prejudice will result in all that??


What you either cannot or will not see is that homosexuality exists whether we allow them to marry or not. It is not about sex. It is about a relationship. I did not marry my wife because of sex. And gays will not marry for sex either. It is the relationship between two people that matters.

I have no objection to gays loving and living with who ever they wish. I only object to the redefinition of marriage. You are making much ado about nothing.

I do not know anyone who object to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please. Do you?

So being gay is fine, just don't get married? And if we allow them to marry we do all that stuff you ranted about?? LMAO!!

That is rich.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I have no objection to gays loving and living with who ever they wish. I only object to the redefinition of marriage. You are making much ado about nothing.

I do not know anyone who object to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please. Do you?

46.85% of the State of Washington.


>>>>

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What I am proposing is exactly that. The exact same privileges of marriage. What's the problem? you want the title too? So there is a total refusal to compromise on your part?

Mkae civil unions the same in every legal way to marriage.the gays and the anti-gays will have to compromise. The homophobes get to keep the official title of Marriage, and the gays get complete legal status with all of the privileges that grants them. it's a completely reasonable compromise.

A citizen should not be expected nor compelled to compromise on his Constitutional rights.

Rule of Law rather than Rule of Man. Interesting to hear a lefty saying that.

Not really, and you need to get out more often – for well over a century liberals have been at the forefront of defending citizens’ rights in the context of the rule of law.

It’s conservatives, for the most part, who attempt the undermine the rule of law, as they complain about ‘activist’ judges, ‘legislating from the bench,’ ‘violating the will of the people as expressed through their elected representatives.’

The bill of rights only restricts the government. For example: The government can not abridge your right to free speech but your boss can, your teacher can, your parents can, etc. The 14th amendment only requires states to treat individuals equally.

Correct, including allowing same sex couples equal access to marriage laws.

Congratulations, you’ve just destroyed your own argument.

 

[WinterBorn]

I have no objection to gays loving and living with who ever they wish. I only object to the redefinition of marriage. You are making much ado about nothing.

I do not know anyone who object to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please. Do you?

46.85% of the State of Washington.


>>>>

46.85% of the State of Washingtn objects to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please??

 

[JakeStarkey]

We are fortunate the garyganus of America are having ever less to do with choosing the final decision on universal marriage.

His type of thinking will soon be extinct, America will be a better place, and God will be happier.

If conservative thought is extinguished, America will become extinct.

You are not conservative, for no real conservative would limit a person's right to marry whom s/he would. It's that simple.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I have no objection to gays loving and living with who ever they wish. I only object to the redefinition of marriage. You are making much ado about nothing.

I do not know anyone who object to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please. Do you?

46.85% of the State of Washington.


>>>>

46.85% of the State of Washingtn objects to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please??

That's the percentage of people that voted for Referendum 71 AGAINST allowing homosexuals to have the freedom to live and love under Civil Unions equal to Civil Marriage under the law but not called "Marriage".


>>>>

 

[AmericanFirst]

We are fortunate the garyganus of America are having ever less to do with choosing the final decision on universal marriage.

His type of thinking will soon be extinct, America will be a better place, and God will be happier.

If conservative thought is extinguished, America will become extinct.

You are not conservative, for no real conservative would limit a person's right to marry whom s/he would. It's that simple.

As a conservative, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. Supporting gay marriage only proves the left is anti Christian. Tell me I am not conservative, YOU WOULD BE FLAT OUT WRONG!!!!

 

[AmericanFirst]

garyganu, you made a challenge and I answered. I notice you refuse to do the same.

I made the following challenge (perhaps you missed it?):

Since I rose to your challenge, let me challenge you. Give me some reasons against gay marriage that do not have to do with religion, and then tell me how allowing gay marriage would effect you at all??

Winterborn, I did not make any arguments based on religion. Please re-read my original post and all of my comments for arguments that do not involve religion.

As for your second question, here is the answer:

"When you celebrate and embrace something that is abnormal and unhealthy, reason and common sense are turned on their heads. As a result, our popular culture has lost the ability to distinguish between, good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, healthy and unhealthy, constructive and destructive, considerate and rude, brave and cowardly, modest and lewd, vulgar and polite, acceptable and unacceptable, respectful and contemptuous, virtuous and shameful, tolerant and intolerant, open-minded and narrow-minded truth and deception, etc."

In today's popular culture, which rejects many social and spiritual restraints, I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance, gratitude and faith in God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking and self esteem.

IMHO, there can be no other possible outcome than our society and culture becoming more corrupt, greedy, lawless, poor, ignorant, powerless, and ultimately more restrained by our fears and/or our government. This is clearly witnessed by the current increase in crime, prisons, corruption, illiteracy, poverty, drug use, intolerance and governmental control in today's America.

Okay, you lost me immediately. "When you celebrate and embrace something that is unnatural and unhealthy."

No.

If you think being gay is a choice, I want to know how much of a chance you gave it before you decided you were straight.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

Gay is a choice PERIOD!!!! It is learned behavior and a mental deficiency.

 

[WinterBorn]

46.85% of the State of Washington.


>>>>

46.85% of the State of Washingtn objects to homosexuals having the freedom to live and love as they please??

That's the percentage of people that voted for Referendum 71 AGAINST allowing homosexuals to have the freedom to live and love under Civil Unions equal to Civil Marriage under the law but not called "Marriage".


>>>>

I guess its a good thing we don't live in a democracy, huh?

 

[WinterBorn]

If conservative thought is extinguished, America will become extinct.

You are not conservative, for no real conservative would limit a person's right to marry whom s/he would. It's that simple.

As a conservative, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. Supporting gay marriage only proves the left is anti Christian. Tell me I am not conservative, YOU WOULD BE FLAT OUT WRONG!!!!

Just because someone does not follow Christianity does not mean they are anti-christian. To claim otherwise is nonsense.

No one is saying anything about your right to worship as you please, so long as you harm no one.

No one is forcing churches to recognize gay marriages. We are discussing federal law.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

As a conservative, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. Supporting gay marriage only proves the left is anti Christian.

lol A classic example of conservative ‘logic.’

The kids on the right must be overjoyed to have you on their team.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I don't believe in any standards for "groups" in America. We are all individuals. Our constitution does not address groups, only individuals. We are all entitled to equal justice under the law. People with homosexual desires are not excluded from getting married. Gay activists are demanding that we redefine marriage. The redefinition of marriage is not a right. Marriage is not even mentioned in the constitution.

Since you make the claim that the government deals with individuals and not groups, then to you disagree with the SCOTUS overturning Virginia's interracial Civil Marriage restrictions since under the law each individual still had the right to marry, just that they couldn't marry someone outside their race?


Under your "individual" only evaluation, the SCOTUS would have erred in barring laws based on group classifications such as race.



>>>

You can not equate the choice of gay with race.