A Young Woman Stoned for Adultery

[irosie91]

No, I am the realistic one. You want to bury your head in the sand and deny that there are real "social" problems with ONE particular religion pretty much everywhere it seems.

I do deny that it applies to "ONE particular religion", yes. That makes me the one with his head OUT OF the sand.
That's because I don't just swallow every meme the media tries to sell me without putting it through a smell test.

An approach you might be well advised to try.

And it does not go unnoticed that your last two words are "it seems". "It seems" just ain't good enough.

Well if you deny that most of the honor killing violence you hear about is not usually related to ONE particular religion, then I am going to call you "ostrich boy."

Dem birds must be very studious. So that's what they're doing down there...
Can't help it -- I studied Anthropology. That's a course you never "finish".

I studied anthropology too------I doubt you passed, pogo dear I took
so many elective courses in the "SOCIAL SCIENCES"------that I could have
declared a double major-------I did not------but those social science coursea
did keep my grade point average up so that I graduated cum laude-----
crème puff crap-----I used to get thru most of the syllabus in a weekend.
TROBRIANDERS OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC-----COMING OF AGE IN SAMOA----
pleasant light reading

4.0 actually.

yeah RIGHT----------you got A in both semesters of calculus----what sort of idiotic
school did you attend------there were NO 4.0 in my school------there were whole
classes in which the very highest mark was B

 

[Pogo]

Interesting. So this is going on in Kazakhstan and Dubai and Gambia huh?

You are just grasping at straws now. My link demonstrates that the majority of Muslims who reside in "Muslim" countries in fact do support Sharia law, including the harsh punishments doled out to women. I cannot understand how anyone can defend that. Sickening.

chris------the real horror is that when it comes to stuff like honor killing and stoning for sex crimes for women------the people who support it just as much as the men are the WOMEN------including the mothers. Girls do not get the support of their own mothers and certainly not the support of their mothers-in-law. they are in many circumstances, completely abandoned

Actually you're right about that, and the same is true of FGM, which is normally performed by the women.

--- which both underscore everything I've noted about its roots in ancient culture -- not in religion. And what I keep saying about these traditions' base in patriarchy.

of course it is done by women-----it involves a NAKED GIRL-----muslim men do not
fool around with naked girls EXCEPT to screw them. Muslim men do not do child
care. The women do it with religious conviction just as they support and sometimes even participate in honor killings out of RELIGIOIUS CONVICTION.
Your focus on the FIRST WHO DID IT-----is idiotic. Muslims incorporated it
into ISLAM and took it to every place in which islam was either introduced or
imposed . You could claim that no eating pig is not a religious custom too----go
right ahead and let us know why you failed anthropology

"Muslim" ain't got nuttin' to do with it. It's --- ONCE AGAIN -- NOT A RELIGIOUS RITUAL. And no, Muslims did not "incorporate it". Matter of fact in Mecca it's considered pagan and barbaric.

FGM has *>NO<* repeat NO religious function in Islam or in any other religion. Go ahead -- try to prove me wrong. Find it in the Koran.

 

[irosie91]

Interesting. So this is going on in Kazakhstan and Dubai and Gambia huh?

do you have reliable information on Kazakhstan and Dubai and Gambia?
criminal and medical stats are SUPPLIED by the countries themselves----not
by DISPASSIONATE OBSERVER For decades Saudi arabia claimed
"NO HIV+" even the muslim docs laughed

 

[irosie91]

Interesting. So this is going on in Kazakhstan and Dubai and Gambia huh?

You are just grasping at straws now. My link demonstrates that the majority of Muslims who reside in "Muslim" countries in fact do support Sharia law, including the harsh punishments doled out to women. I cannot understand how anyone can defend that. Sickening.

chris------the real horror is that when it comes to stuff like honor killing and stoning for sex crimes for women------the people who support it just as much as the men are the WOMEN------including the mothers. Girls do not get the support of their own mothers and certainly not the support of their mothers-in-law. they are in many circumstances, completely abandoned

Actually you're right about that, and the same is true of FGM, which is normally performed by the women.

--- which both underscore everything I've noted about its roots in ancient culture -- not in religion. And what I keep saying about these traditions' base in patriarchy.

of course it is done by women-----it involves a NAKED GIRL-----muslim men do not
fool around with naked girls EXCEPT to screw them. Muslim men do not do child
care. The women do it with religious conviction just as they support and sometimes even participate in honor killings out of RELIGIOIUS CONVICTION.
Your focus on the FIRST WHO DID IT-----is idiotic. Muslims incorporated it
into ISLAM and took it to every place in which islam was either introduced or
imposed . You could claim that no eating pig is not a religious custom too----go
right ahead and let us know why you failed anthropology

"Muslim" ain't got nuttin' to do with it. It's --- ONCE AGAIN -- NOT A RELIGIOUS RITUAL. And no, Muslims did not "incorporate it". Matter of fact in Mecca it's considered pagan and barbaric.

FGM has *>NO<* repeat NO religious function in Islam or in any other religion. Go ahead -- try to prove me wrong.

you got a citation of videos of people marching around the rock chanting
"DEATH TO FGM"? get someone to get you into a large medical library--
even Saudi arabia has medical journals --------available in English. The largest
proportion of population that undergo FGM are Egyptian muslims----
way over 90 % even though it has been outlawed------very few non muslims

 

[Pogo]

You are just grasping at straws now. My link demonstrates that the majority of Muslims who reside in "Muslim" countries in fact do support Sharia law, including the harsh punishments doled out to women. I cannot understand how anyone can defend that. Sickening.

chris------the real horror is that when it comes to stuff like honor killing and stoning for sex crimes for women------the people who support it just as much as the men are the WOMEN------including the mothers. Girls do not get the support of their own mothers and certainly not the support of their mothers-in-law. they are in many circumstances, completely abandoned

Actually you're right about that, and the same is true of FGM, which is normally performed by the women.

--- which both underscore everything I've noted about its roots in ancient culture -- not in religion. And what I keep saying about these traditions' base in patriarchy.

of course it is done by women-----it involves a NAKED GIRL-----muslim men do not
fool around with naked girls EXCEPT to screw them. Muslim men do not do child
care. The women do it with religious conviction just as they support and sometimes even participate in honor killings out of RELIGIOIUS CONVICTION.
Your focus on the FIRST WHO DID IT-----is idiotic. Muslims incorporated it
into ISLAM and took it to every place in which islam was either introduced or
imposed . You could claim that no eating pig is not a religious custom too----go
right ahead and let us know why you failed anthropology

"Muslim" ain't got nuttin' to do with it. It's --- ONCE AGAIN -- NOT A RELIGIOUS RITUAL. And no, Muslims did not "incorporate it". Matter of fact in Mecca it's considered pagan and barbaric.

FGM has *>NO<* repeat NO religious function in Islam or in any other religion. Go ahead -- try to prove me wrong.

you got a citation of videos of people marching around the rock chanting
"DEATH TO FGM"? get someone to get you into a large medical library--
even Saudi arabia has medical journals --------available in English. The largest
proportion of population that undergo FGM are Egyptian muslims----
way over 90 % even though it has been outlawed------very few non muslims

So you have nothing to offer but still more association fallacies.

What a surprise.

 

[irosie91]

chris------the real horror is that when it comes to stuff like honor killing and stoning for sex crimes for women------the people who support it just as much as the men are the WOMEN------including the mothers. Girls do not get the support of their own mothers and certainly not the support of their mothers-in-law. they are in many circumstances, completely abandoned

Actually you're right about that, and the same is true of FGM, which is normally performed by the women.

--- which both underscore everything I've noted about its roots in ancient culture -- not in religion. And what I keep saying about these traditions' base in patriarchy.

of course it is done by women-----it involves a NAKED GIRL-----muslim men do not
fool around with naked girls EXCEPT to screw them. Muslim men do not do child
care. The women do it with religious conviction just as they support and sometimes even participate in honor killings out of RELIGIOIUS CONVICTION.
Your focus on the FIRST WHO DID IT-----is idiotic. Muslims incorporated it
into ISLAM and took it to every place in which islam was either introduced or
imposed . You could claim that no eating pig is not a religious custom too----go
right ahead and let us know why you failed anthropology

"Muslim" ain't got nuttin' to do with it. It's --- ONCE AGAIN -- NOT A RELIGIOUS RITUAL. And no, Muslims did not "incorporate it". Matter of fact in Mecca it's considered pagan and barbaric.

FGM has *>NO<* repeat NO religious function in Islam or in any other religion. Go ahead -- try to prove me wrong.

you got a citation of videos of people marching around the rock chanting
"DEATH TO FGM"? get someone to get you into a large medical library--
even Saudi arabia has medical journals --------available in English. The largest
proportion of population that undergo FGM are Egyptian muslims----
way over 90 % even though it has been outlawed------very few non muslims

So you have nothing.

What a surprise.

I have fact and you have the GOEBBELS method of REPEAT THE LIE. How many muslim ladies have you examined -----"down there"? In American courts of law-------even minor experts like me to not have to supply computer links to support
testimony-------you know nothing but the propaganda that you promote

 

[irosie91]

Interesting. So this is going on in Kazakhstan and Dubai and Gambia huh?

You are just grasping at straws now. My link demonstrates that the majority of Muslims who reside in "Muslim" countries in fact do support Sharia law, including the harsh punishments doled out to women. I cannot understand how anyone can defend that. Sickening.

chris------the real horror is that when it comes to stuff like honor killing and stoning for sex crimes for women------the people who support it just as much as the men are the WOMEN------including the mothers. Girls do not get the support of their own mothers and certainly not the support of their mothers-in-law. they are in many circumstances, completely abandoned

Actually you're right about that, and the same is true of FGM, which is normally performed by the women.

--- which both underscore everything I've noted about its roots in ancient culture -- not in religion. And what I keep saying about these traditions' base in patriarchy.

of course it is done by women-----it involves a NAKED GIRL-----muslim men do not
fool around with naked girls EXCEPT to screw them. Muslim men do not do child
care. The women do it with religious conviction just as they support and sometimes even participate in honor killings out of RELIGIOIUS CONVICTION.
Your focus on the FIRST WHO DID IT-----is idiotic. Muslims incorporated it
into ISLAM and took it to every place in which islam was either introduced or
imposed . You could claim that no eating pig is not a religious custom too----go
right ahead and let us know why you failed anthropology

"Muslim" ain't got nuttin' to do with it. It's --- ONCE AGAIN -- NOT A RELIGIOUS RITUAL. And no, Muslims did not "incorporate it". Matter of fact in Mecca it's considered pagan and barbaric.

FGM has *>NO<* repeat NO religious function in Islam or in any other religion. Go ahead -- try to prove me wrong. Find it in the Koran.

Fellow posters-----the big MO ----according to accounts in the koran/hadiths-----
mentions FGM------and advises that the procedure be moderately done----
which is good-------he never called it barbaric or advised against it-----Pogo either
never read the book or is a liar/

 

[emilynghiem]

Aye. And "seems" might be the operative word via the lens of media. Violence is espoused on "behalf of" every religion; that doesn't make the latter a causation of the former. We've already noted the examples of Scott Roeder, Eric Rudolf, the Ku Klux Klan, et al.

In any case what we're doing is looking at co-incidence versus causation, and discriminating between the two.

I approach everything I see with the knowledge that popular perceptions are heavily manipulated, and get cynically inquisitive accordingly. In other words I want to know "what's really behind this?" And ironically that probably started, for me, with questioning religion.

No, not discriminating. Looking at life through the lens called "reality."

I am indeed. Thangyew. Thangyew vurra much.

No, I am the realistic one. You want to bury your head in the sand and deny that there are real "social" problems with ONE particular religion pretty much everywhere it seems.

I do deny that it applies to "ONE particular religion", yes. That makes me the one with his head OUT OF the sand.
That's because I don't just swallow every meme the media tries to sell me without putting it through a smell test.

An approach you might be well advised to try.

And it does not go unnoticed that your last two words are "it seems". "It seems" just ain't good enough.

Well if you deny that most of the honor killing violence you hear about is not usually related to ONE particular religion, then I am going to call you "ostrich boy."

Dear ChrisL
With the honor killings, how many of these come out of Pakistani families?
I asked a Muslim friend of mine, and he said it is tied to Pakistani culture.

I would compare "honor killings" to equally tragic reports from India
of women burned alive on the funeral pyres of their husbands

Yes, it's illegal to do this.
But "some people" are still carrying out old traditions, because of their social conditioning.

For these illegal acts coming out of India, is it fair to blame this on "Hinduism"?
It may be part of the old CULTURE,
but of course it isn't part of the law or religious beliefs that are AGAINST such acts.

If you are looking for an easy answer to blame it on,
I don't think this is going to solve the problem.

The conditioning goes deeper.

 

[irosie91]

No, not discriminating. Looking at life through the lens called "reality."

I am indeed. Thangyew. Thangyew vurra much.

No, I am the realistic one. You want to bury your head in the sand and deny that there are real "social" problems with ONE particular religion pretty much everywhere it seems.

I do deny that it applies to "ONE particular religion", yes. That makes me the one with his head OUT OF the sand.
That's because I don't just swallow every meme the media tries to sell me without putting it through a smell test.

An approach you might be well advised to try.

And it does not go unnoticed that your last two words are "it seems". "It seems" just ain't good enough.

Well if you deny that most of the honor killing violence you hear about is not usually related to ONE particular religion, then I am going to call you "ostrich boy."

Dear ChrisL
With the honor killings, how many of these come out of Pakistani families?
I asked a Muslim friend of mine, and he said it is tied to Pakistani culture.

I would compare "honor killings" to equally tragic reports from India
of women burned alive on the funeral pyres of their husbands

Yes, it's illegal to do this.
But "some people" are still carrying out old traditions, because of their social conditioning.

For these illegal acts coming out of India, is it fair to blame this on "Hinduism"?
It may be part of the old CULTURE,
but of course it isn't part of the law or religious beliefs that are AGAINST such acts.

If you are looking for an easy answer to blame it on,
I don't think this is going to solve the problem.

The conditioning goes deeper.

Burning a widow on the funeral pyre of her husband is DEFINITELY a rite linked to
Hinduism. I have never met a HINDU who denied that fact. I have known lots of educated hindus-----it has been made illegal in India and was probably restricted to
WEALTHY UPPER CLASS hindus even in ancient times. Lots of hindu girls find it
"romantic" There is a belief that burning together will give the couple ---eternal togetherness in the reincarnation game. Muslims who deny that FGM is
linked to islam are lying. There have been a few cases of hindu wives PREVENTED from jumping on the funeral pyre who committed suicide in order
to accomplish the custom. "BLAME"??? why say "blame" an honest
evaluation is the answer. ---------sati >>>HINDU FGM >>> islam -----out dated
and in some places illegal. Sati is illegal and-----seems to be not done in India---
FGM is done in Pakistan-----and thruout the Islamic world ----in some places
it is illegal. Anthropology is a real social science-----liars do it poorly

 

[emilynghiem]

I am indeed. Thangyew. Thangyew vurra much.

No, I am the realistic one. You want to bury your head in the sand and deny that there are real "social" problems with ONE particular religion pretty much everywhere it seems.

I do deny that it applies to "ONE particular religion", yes. That makes me the one with his head OUT OF the sand.
That's because I don't just swallow every meme the media tries to sell me without putting it through a smell test.

An approach you might be well advised to try.

And it does not go unnoticed that your last two words are "it seems". "It seems" just ain't good enough.

Well if you deny that most of the honor killing violence you hear about is not usually related to ONE particular religion, then I am going to call you "ostrich boy."

Dear ChrisL
With the honor killings, how many of these come out of Pakistani families?
I asked a Muslim friend of mine, and he said it is tied to Pakistani culture.

I would compare "honor killings" to equally tragic reports from India
of women burned alive on the funeral pyres of their husbands

Yes, it's illegal to do this.
But "some people" are still carrying out old traditions, because of their social conditioning.

For these illegal acts coming out of India, is it fair to blame this on "Hinduism"?
It may be part of the old CULTURE,
but of course it isn't part of the law or religious beliefs that are AGAINST such acts.

If you are looking for an easy answer to blame it on,
I don't think this is going to solve the problem.

The conditioning goes deeper.

Burning a widow on the funeral pyre of her husband is DEFINITELY a rite linked to
Hinduism. I have never met a HINDU who denied that fact. I have known lots of educated hindus-----it has been made illegal in India and was probably restricted to
WEALTHY UPPER CLASS hindus even in ancient times. Lots of hindu girls find it
"romantic" There is a belief that burning together will give the couple ---eternal togetherness in the reincarnation game. Muslims who deny that FGM is
linked to islam are lying. There have been a few cases of hindu wives PREVENTED from jumping on the funeral pyre who committed suicide in order
to accomplish the custom. "BLAME"??? why say "blame" an honest
evaluation is the answer. ---------sati >>>HINDU FGM >>> islam -----out dated
and in some places illegal. Sati is illegal and-----seems to be not done in India---
FGM is done in Pakistan-----and thruout the Islamic world ----in some places
it is illegal. Anthropology is a real social science-----liars do it poorly

Dear irosie91
Why is it that some of the people who BLAME the slavery of blacks in America
on either Christian or Government laws
can FORGIVE and SEPARATE the practice of slavery FROM the
proper practice of Christianity and democratic govt.

While others CANNOT and keep BLAMING Christianity and govt for having instituted slavery in the past?

Now, I happen to be one of the people who can SEPARATE
the founding and the past applications of govt that did institute slavery
FROM the CORRECT practices of Christianity and Constitutionalism that PRECLUDE slavery
which is ultimately against Christian and Constitutional principles and spirit.

Why can't the same be done with Islam and Hinduism, even Atheism --
ANY belief system that gets targeted and blamed as a class?

Some of the traditions tied to religions may be as bad or worse
than Slavery that used to be part of American society.
If we can separate the bad from the good in that case,
why can't we do the same with any other case where this has happened?

Do we really benefit from finding an "easy target to blame this on"

Does is really do a thing to stop slavery today
to "blame it on" Christians or Constitutional founders for practicing it in the past?

Does it stop the people doing "honor killings" by blaming all Muslims?
Doesn't that dilute and misdirect the blame, so the wrongdoers get away with it
by distracting attention from the real problems with these people justifying attacks on women?

If the solution is using spiritual healing from Christianity to cure the generational ills
causing this behavior, then let's be specific about that. Let's study and prove the cure for these ills.

Not just run around blaming and not fixing the real cause of the problems.
How is that going to solve anything?

I find it's not a simple answer of "blaming Islam" or "blaming Hinduism"

The key difference I find is whether some person or some group
takes a RETRIBUTIVE approach or a RESTORATIVE approach to justice.

The common factor I find in acts of murder, abuse, criminal attacks, etc.
is Unforgiveness expressed as RETRIBUTION, out of ILL WILL for the person/group being TARGETED.

The common factor I find in people who DON'T abuse others is
FORGIVENESS and compassion/inclusion of all people in SOLVING the root problem for mutual benefit of all.

So this is beyond just religious labels.

irosie91 you are not going to get your answer
by targeting one group, thinking finding the right label to blame it on is going to solve these problems.

OTHERWISE WE'D BE DONE BY NOW

Of course it isn't clear cut by group label.
Nobody and nothing would have to change, if all we had to do is find one group to blame it on.

Clearly the BEHAVIOR must change.

And the real key, the real wisdom here is seeing that every person
in every group has some of this divisive retributive behavior and ILL WILL
that is equally fueling the fire. And we must ALL eliminate this ill will,
and negative projection back and forth if we are going to address and resolve the REAL problems
we share across cultures and nations.

It isn't just one group we can neatly label and blame.

The same problem must be uprooted and removed wherever it is found.

It takes all of us to do that, not just pointing to one group and demanding change outside ourselves.

Not so easy, why do you think the world suffers so much war?

People still think the problem is "that other person" "that other group" that needs to change.
So that's why we stay stuck.

 

[irosie91]

Emily-----you are playing the "ALL" game that is a characteristic of propagandaists-----are you a propagandaists? I have never met a single person in my life who blamed ALL CHRISTIANS for the slavery that was practiced in the pre civil war USA------you are ALL GAME is a libel. Libels are for lynch gangs. For the fact that slavery was LEGAL in the USA------the USA as a group is culpable---that fact does not make ALL people at that time culpable. As to muslims----for the fact that oppression of non muslims is LEGAL in Islamic law-----MUSLIMS as a group are culpable ----that fact does not make ALL MUSLIMS guilty of the reality of Islamic law. ALL GERMANS are not Nazis and ALL GERMANS are not guilty of the
atrocities committed by hitler. I consider your comments to be LIBELS against the victims of Islamic atrocities in the present, and Nazi atrocities in recent past, and
Christian atrocities in the more remote past. Those people and the people who carred the family legacy of those atrocities have a RIGHT to blame the perpetrators

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily-----you are playing the "ALL" game that is a characteristic of propagandaists-----are you a propagandaists? I have never met a single person in my life who blamed ALL CHRISTIANS for the slavery that was practiced in the pre civil war USA------you are ALL GAME is a libel. Libels are for lynch gangs. For the fact that slavery was LEGAL in the USA------the USA as a group is culpable---that fact does not make ALL people at that time culpable. As to muslims----for the fact that oppression of non muslims is LEGAL in Islamic law-----MUSLIMS as a group are culpable ----that fact does not make ALL MUSLIMS guilty of the reality of Islamic law. ALL GERMANS are not Nazis and ALL GERMANS are not guilty of the
atrocities committed by hitler. I consider your comments to be LIBELS against the victims of Islamic atrocities in the present, and Nazi atrocities in recent past, and
Christian atrocities in the more remote past. Those people and the people who carred the family legacy of those atrocities have a RIGHT to blame the perpetrators

WHAT???

OMG I have met Atheists who absolutely blame Christians!!
CANNOT forgive them and CANNOT acknowledge any good at all.
People who truly believe that any good that has been accomplished by Christians
"could have been done without that" and basically attack it for being a religion as not worth the damage caused.

I went to a presentation by Louis Farakhan where he blamed
the "white man's laws" for enslaving Blacks as property and
preached to the audience that these laws were not for them but for "whites" to control others.

irosie91 it may be "just a phase" people go through
where it is easy to blame a nameable target.

But definitely, I have met people who blame religion in general
or blame Christianity specifically and can't get past that.

irosie91 again I would say any religion that isn't checked
from imposition through govt is going to cause problems.

Look at North Korea and China and their oppression of
their citizens, without due process or other protections.

is Islam to blame for that?

No, the common factor in those cases is "no check on govt power"
so that the rulers' beliefs and judgment instantly become law carried out.

Islam does not have checks built into it
the same way Christian and Constitutional laws
prescribe the process of redressing grievances and correction.

The people I know who are consistent with their Islamic faith

So you are right irosie91 that you can just blame one group for "ALL"
and expect that will solve everyone's problems. At least you and I might agree on that..

sorry again for confusion

 

[irosie91]

Emily-----you are playing the "ALL" game that is a characteristic of propagandaists-----are you a propagandaists? I have never met a single person in my life who blamed ALL CHRISTIANS for the slavery that was practiced in the pre civil war USA------you are ALL GAME is a libel. Libels are for lynch gangs. For the fact that slavery was LEGAL in the USA------the USA as a group is culpable---that fact does not make ALL people at that time culpable. As to muslims----for the fact that oppression of non muslims is LEGAL in Islamic law-----MUSLIMS as a group are culpable ----that fact does not make ALL MUSLIMS guilty of the reality of Islamic law. ALL GERMANS are not Nazis and ALL GERMANS are not guilty of the
atrocities committed by hitler. I consider your comments to be LIBELS against the victims of Islamic atrocities in the present, and Nazi atrocities in recent past, and
Christian atrocities in the more remote past. Those people and the people who carred the family legacy of those atrocities have a RIGHT to blame the perpetrators

WHAT???

OMG I have met Atheists who absolutely blame Christians!!
CANNOT forgive them and CANNOT acknowledge any good at all.
People who truly believe that any good that has been accomplished by Christians
"could have been done without that" and basically attack it for being a religion as not worth the damage caused.

I went to a presentation by Louis Farakhan where he blamed
the "white man's laws" for enslaving Blacks as property and
preached to the audience that these laws were not for them but for "whites" to control others.

irosie91 it may be "just a phase" people go through
where it is easy to blame a nameable target.

But definitely, I have met people who blame religion in general
or blame Christianity specifically and can't get past that.

irosie91 again I would say any religion that isn't checked
from imposition through govt is going to cause problems.

Look at North Korea and China and their oppression of
their citizens, without due process or other protections.

is Islam to blame for that?

No, the common factor in those cases is "no check on govt power"
so that the rulers' beliefs and judgment instantly become law carried out.

Islam does not have checks built into it
the same way Christian and Constitutional laws
prescribe the process of redressing grievances and correction.

The people I know who are consistent with their Islamic faith

So you are right irosie91 that you can just blame one group for "ALL"
and expect that will solve everyone's problems. At least you and I might agree on that..

sorry again for confusion

I am not confused------you are. Islam is an ideology that includes a legal system
which is quite equivalent to that of Christians in general and equivalent to the
judicial system of Judaism. In fact its legal system is quite intricate and logical.
Its laws stink to high heaven as did the laws of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE and other forms of Christianity for most of the history of Christianity. The law of the
Christian church ----virtually mandated the INQUISITION----and in the USA ---
the major sects certainly did consider slavery to be legal. I have no idea what
Jesus thought of slavery-----but PAUL supported it which according to the NT
was based on his DREAM REVELATIONS. Jewish law was equivocal on slavery-----allowing but limiting it and rejecting chattel slavery ----later on it became outlawed sorta effectively----almost. (by rabbinical edict which means some people could have had a chance to reject HIS ideas). You are trying to claim ---
NO BLAME for evil

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily-----you are playing the "ALL" game that is a characteristic of propagandaists-----are you a propagandaists? I have never met a single person in my life who blamed ALL CHRISTIANS for the slavery that was practiced in the pre civil war USA------you are ALL GAME is a libel. Libels are for lynch gangs. For the fact that slavery was LEGAL in the USA------the USA as a group is culpable---that fact does not make ALL people at that time culpable. As to muslims----for the fact that oppression of non muslims is LEGAL in Islamic law-----MUSLIMS as a group are culpable ----that fact does not make ALL MUSLIMS guilty of the reality of Islamic law. ALL GERMANS are not Nazis and ALL GERMANS are not guilty of the
atrocities committed by hitler. I consider your comments to be LIBELS against the victims of Islamic atrocities in the present, and Nazi atrocities in recent past, and
Christian atrocities in the more remote past. Those people and the people who carred the family legacy of those atrocities have a RIGHT to blame the perpetrators

WHAT???

OMG I have met Atheists who absolutely blame Christians!!
CANNOT forgive them and CANNOT acknowledge any good at all.
People who truly believe that any good that has been accomplished by Christians
"could have been done without that" and basically attack it for being a religion as not worth the damage caused.

I went to a presentation by Louis Farakhan where he blamed
the "white man's laws" for enslaving Blacks as property and
preached to the audience that these laws were not for them but for "whites" to control others.

irosie91 it may be "just a phase" people go through
where it is easy to blame a nameable target.

But definitely, I have met people who blame religion in general
or blame Christianity specifically and can't get past that.

irosie91 again I would say any religion that isn't checked
from imposition through govt is going to cause problems.

Look at North Korea and China and their oppression of
their citizens, without due process or other protections.

is Islam to blame for that?

No, the common factor in those cases is "no check on govt power"
so that the rulers' beliefs and judgment instantly become law carried out.

Islam does not have checks built into it
the same way Christian and Constitutional laws
prescribe the process of redressing grievances and correction.

The people I know who are consistent with their Islamic faith

So you are right irosie91 that you can just blame one group for "ALL"
and expect that will solve everyone's problems. At least you and I might agree on that..

sorry again for confusion

I am not confused------you are. Islam is an ideology that includes a legal system
which is quite equivalent to that of Christians in general and equivalent to the
judicial system of Judaism. In fact its legal system is quite intricate and logical.
Its laws stink to high heaven as did the laws of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE and other forms of Christianity for most of the history of Christianity. The law of the
Christian church ----virtually mandated the INQUISITION----and in the USA ---
the major sects certainly did consider slavery to be legal. I have no idea what
Jesus thought of slavery-----but PAUL supported it which according to the NT
was based on his DREAM REVELATIONS. Jewish law was equivocal on slavery-----allowing but limiting it and rejecting chattel slavery ----later on it became outlawed sorta effectively----almost. (by rabbinical edict which means some people could have had a chance to reject HIS ideas). You are trying to claim ---
NO BLAME for evil

Dear irosie91

No, I'm pointing to the root evil being greater than any religious label.
Not denying it, but pinpointing it more precisely.

I would AGREE with you that any "legal" system that CONFLICTS
with civil authority, due process, etc is wrongful and cannot be enforced as law.

With Islam, it depends if followers work WITH Constitutional limits on govt.

When these same Islamic beliefs are practiced
WITHIN a Christian framework -- which is also part of the Muslim teachings --
and WITH normal respect for the civil govt and authority of the country,
there is no such problem.

 

[JoeB131]

Please. They have been savages for a very long time now. It's like they did well up until the middle ages and then they just completely stopped any kind of progress whatsoever. They are stagnant people who are living in the past and trying to force all of their people to do the same, and they are fighting a losing battle and they know it. That is why they are such an angry people.

Sister, the worst instance of savagery in the last century was carried out by Christians and Shintoists in World War II.

Except I guess they were more advanced because they had bombers.

Technology doesn't make you less savage.

It's common among their communities. Their leaders are their own worst enemies, so of course they like to blame America for all of their own failings and their own "plundering" of their own people. They like to keep their people ignorant and focus their hatred on "the west" and the "infidels." That keeps the focus off their own failings.

And how is that any different than politicians in the west? Donald Trump blames everything on the Mexicans and Chinese, and he's the frontrunner! Are all your rationales for your bigotry going to be this lame?

Hey, here's a question. How many Muslims do you know, personally? I'm going to guess, none.

 

[JoeB131]

You are just grasping at straws now. My link demonstrates that the majority of Muslims who reside in "Muslim" countries in fact do support Sharia law, including the harsh punishments doled out to women. I cannot understand how anyone can defend that. Sickening.

57% Of Republicans Say Dismantle Constitution And Make Christianity National Religion

A Public Policy Polling (PPP) national survey conducted between February 20th and February 22nd of Republican voters, found that an astonishing 57 percent of Republicans want to dismantle the Constitution, and establish Christianity as the official national religion. Only 30 percent oppose making Christianity the national religion.

Sickening. Have these people actually read some of the shit in the Bible?

 

[JoeB131]

chris------the real horror is that when it comes to stuff like honor killing
and stoning for sex crimes for women------the people who support it just as
much as the men are the WOMEN------including the mothers. Girls
do not get the support of their own mothers and certainly not the
support of their mothers-in-law. they are in many circumstances, completely
abandoned

Yet the same rightwingers who bitch about "honor killings' are the same one who will mock black families for having a 70% out of wedlock birthrate.

 

[gipper]

Damn joey...

Your question is typical left wing kookery. No said one said bombing is civilized dummy. Why the strawman?

Christians don't bomb people. Corrupt lying pols bomb people...pols that you love and adore...but only if they are D's.

Your are engaging in the "No True Scotsman Fallacy". Of course, those Christians who do unchristian things like wars and concentration camps and genocides, they aren't Christians at all!

No matter how much they say they love Jesus.

So again, how is carpet bombing more civilized than Stoning. Still waiting for you to answer that one.

You are engaging in a logical fallacy, with lots of ignorance attached and a bunch of hypocrisy.

You can't compare the murderous actions of radical Islam with the actions of an unlimited powerful state. Radical Islam commits heinous acts because they think their religion dictates they do. The State commits war because that is what a powerful unlimited state does...war enriches and empowers the state. It has nothing to do with religion. I have told you over and over war is the health of the state...this can not be refuted.
Your hypocrisy is your love of the big unlimited omnipresent state, which commits these wars, but only if a D is in charge.

 

[ChrisL]

Please. They have been savages for a very long time now. It's like they did well up until the middle ages and then they just completely stopped any kind of progress whatsoever. They are stagnant people who are living in the past and trying to force all of their people to do the same, and they are fighting a losing battle and they know it. That is why they are such an angry people.

Sister, the worst instance of savagery in the last century was carried out by Christians and Shintoists in World War II.

Except I guess they were more advanced because they had bombers.

Technology doesn't make you less savage.

It's common among their communities. Their leaders are their own worst enemies, so of course they like to blame America for all of their own failings and their own "plundering" of their own people. They like to keep their people ignorant and focus their hatred on "the west" and the "infidels." That keeps the focus off their own failings.

And how is that any different than politicians in the west? Donald Trump blames everything on the Mexicans and Chinese, and he's the frontrunner! Are all your rationales for your bigotry going to be this lame?

Hey, here's a question. How many Muslims do you know, personally? I'm going to guess, none.

We are talking about today's times. What happened decades ago and/or hundreds and thousands of years ago is irrelevant. Um yes, technology and education DO make for less savagery.

What does Donald Trump have to do with this discussion? Does Donald Trump kill people?

 

[ChrisL]

Interesting. So this is going on in Kazakhstan and Dubai and Gambia huh?

do you have reliable information on Kazakhstan and Dubai and Gambia?
criminal and medical stats are SUPPLIED by the countries themselves----not
by DISPASSIONATE OBSERVER For decades Saudi arabia claimed
"NO HIV+" even the muslim docs laughed

Good point, and that means statistics are going to be limited based on a country's resources and abilities to gather and report such information properly and appropriately. I would be willing to bet that many third world country statistics are not accurate at all.