Abortion: Why Men Don't Get A Say

[JBeukema]

PrisonPig: if you fought, does it matter what someone on a forum, thinks?


Ravi: if he's lying, is it worth wasting time with a liar on a forum?


Both of ya just stfu

 

[JBeukema]

The only reason I bring up men not having the option to keep a baby the woman doesn't want is to point out that IS an option a woman has. Under current law a man can beg and plead all he wants but if the woman wants to keep his child, he's going to be a father against his wishes. I don't know that I think a woman should be required to carry the baby to term should the man want it, BUT it truly isn't as if doing so would ruin a woman's life; and how often is that going to be the case anyway?

I'm not saying I think this should be the case, but I've always wondered why these "staunch defenders of freedom" who will parrot "her body, her choice" at the drop of a hat never seem interested in the reciprocal freedom: "his wallet, his choice". They're horrified at the idea of a man being able to "force" a woman to have a child she doesn't want and be "enslaved" for eighteen years by the child's existence, but they're totally indifferent to a woman being able to "force" a man to have a child he doesn't want and be "enslaved" for eighteen years by the child's existence.

But they love to use the phrase "equal rights". Curious.

Odd that you would say that about my post. I suggest you actually grasp my view on that.

I think she was actually speaking about Mad and Sy.

Your post just happened to have been quoted by Cecile

 

[Colin]

The incident with the stripper was 18 years ago, and the link was an accident. Do you get browny points from Sy for obsessing over me?

Excuses, excuses. Obsess over a slimeball? Lol! Just handing out some of your own medicine.

No, you're obsessing, trying to score some points with Syrenn. You must resort to this tactic because you have nothing to offer to the discussion.

Please tell me why you believe a man should not have ANY say in whether he becomes a father or not. Prove you have ANYTHING to offer this thread other than some lame half insults.

I don't have to prove a thing to someone who has covered these boards with his bullying of the ladies. Difficult not to find a thread that contains your insults, flames and whining. You are certainly not in any position to preach to me or anyone else for that matter.

 

[ConHog]

Colin seems to be the only man here who can acknowledge that it is nature that has discriminated against men by only giving women the physicality to bear a child.

There is no denying that is precisely what naturally gives women the ultimate final say...Acknowledging that fact does not translate as if women think men should have no say whatsoever or men don't care or any of that other personal projection that has been going on for pages now in this thread...

Yep...and it is always sad to see women that agree with this idiocy that people like Buttemia push. It is almost as if they feel guilt for being women.

I'd like to think it's just inherent confusion over mixing the discussion with the issue of child support, since both men and women are able to bear that responsibility, but the courts don't take body parts into account once there is a live child who needs to be financially supported.

Many men resent having to pay for a child they would rather have aborted, and other men resent the woman who refuses to bear a child he wishes to keep...So that type of resentment causes confusion and emotional people feel the need to project when searching for a sense of fairness, but the fact remains only a woman can bear a child, so these are really two distinct circumstances.

Mother nature is such a femi-nazi!


I agree with your idea that men should be given the option to abort their financial responsibility and thus relinquish all parental rights.

It is NOT two separate issues. You can't separate the issues simply because you want to. They are intertwined.

How many mothers out there right now have MULTIPLE kids by MULTIPLE men and don't give one shit about the fathers or their rights? Being a single mom of two or three kids can be good business. Give those fathers a choice about whether they want to be fathers and the number of single mothers cuts in half, and without any significant jump in abortions. I guarantee that.

 

[Si modo]

i'm not saying i think this should be the case, but i've always wondered why these "staunch defenders of freedom" who will parrot "her body, her choice" at the drop of a hat never seem interested in the reciprocal freedom: "his wallet, his choice". They're horrified at the idea of a man being able to "force" a woman to have a child she doesn't want and be "enslaved" for eighteen years by the child's existence, but they're totally indifferent to a woman being able to "force" a man to have a child he doesn't want and be "enslaved" for eighteen years by the child's existence.

But they love to use the phrase "equal rights". Curious.

odd that you would say that about my post. I suggest you actually grasp my view on that.

i think she was actually speaking about mad and sy.

Your post just happened to have been quoted by cecile

k.

 

[Madeline]

so to recap: Madeline never wants to see the system even try to be fair towards men, or children?

Got it

Well that is rather blown out of proportion. We have finally agreed that the system is unfair. The difference here is weather the solution of allowing men off the hook costs too much. I am unsure but am leaning on the side that it is. Maddie seems to think so as well. The rest of you seem to disagree. It is possible that we will not find a middle ground but statements like this only serve to ensure that and stop the debate. We would all like the system to be fair but fair is not the goal in life. Life is never fair and that is a fact. I rarely think in terms of fair or not as that line of thought never really works. What we need is a system that is functional and give the most opportunity to all parties and the child may well suffer more than is worth should the father be allowed his fair shake. As the laws and practice stands now there needs to be major reform. The system is unbelievably broken but then again I am weary of a solution the gives the father full ability to walk away.

Where, other than in your head, did she say any such thing?

That is one of the unintended consequences that come from allowing the man to walk away. There are plenty of situation where a woman is willing but unable to fully support a child without something from the father. In that situation, she may be forced to abort because having the child would not be financially sound. Allowing the father to walk WILL result in outcomes like this increasing. Even though adoption is also an answer it is also a poor one. There are consequences that will be paid in the name of fairness if the father were allowed to walk. You must realize this. The question that must be answered is whether or not the freedom in this case is worth the cost.

Adoption is not a 'poor choice'. It is a wonderful, incredible, brilliant thing to do. My family is enriched by our adopted relatives. They are as much family to me as if they were born into it.... in fact, we are more grateful for them. We consider ourselves blessed by adoption.

So you reason, every child given up for adoption has the same fine outcome? That just is not the case, CG.

 

[Kat]

Well that is rather blown out of proportion. We have finally agreed that the system is unfair. The difference here is weather the solution of allowing men off the hook costs too much. I am unsure but am leaning on the side that it is. Maddie seems to think so as well. The rest of you seem to disagree. It is possible that we will not find a middle ground but statements like this only serve to ensure that and stop the debate. We would all like the system to be fair but fair is not the goal in life. Life is never fair and that is a fact. I rarely think in terms of fair or not as that line of thought never really works. What we need is a system that is functional and give the most opportunity to all parties and the child may well suffer more than is worth should the father be allowed his fair shake. As the laws and practice stands now there needs to be major reform. The system is unbelievably broken but then again I am weary of a solution the gives the father full ability to walk away.


That is one of the unintended consequences that come from allowing the man to walk away. There are plenty of situation where a woman is willing but unable to fully support a child without something from the father. In that situation, she may be forced to abort because having the child would not be financially sound. Allowing the father to walk WILL result in outcomes like this increasing. Even though adoption is also an answer it is also a poor one. There are consequences that will be paid in the name of fairness if the father were allowed to walk. You must realize this. The question that must be answered is whether or not the freedom in this case is worth the cost.

Adoption is not a 'poor choice'. It is a wonderful, incredible, brilliant thing to do. My family is enriched by our adopted relatives. They are as much family to me as if they were born into it.... in fact, we are more grateful for them. We consider ourselves blessed by adoption.

So you reason, every child given up for adoption has the same fine outcome? That just is not the case, CG.

Now Madeline, that can be true of any case of the birth of the child, whether raised by the natural parents, or adopted.
My sister's adopted son is wonderful!

 

[Valerie]

Yep...and it is always sad to see women that agree with this idiocy that people like Buttemia push. It is almost as if they feel guilt for being women.

I'd like to think it's just inherent confusion over mixing the discussion with the issue of child support, since both men and women are able to bear that responsibility, but the courts don't take body parts into account once there is a live child who needs to be financially supported.

Many men resent having to pay for a child they would rather have aborted, and other men resent the woman who refuses to bear a child he wishes to keep...So that type of resentment causes confusion and emotional people feel the need to project when searching for a sense of fairness, but the fact remains only a woman can bear a child, so these are really two distinct circumstances.

Mother nature is such a femi-nazi!


I agree with your idea that men should be given the option to abort their financial responsibility and thus relinquish all parental rights.

It is NOT two separate issues. You can't separate the issues simply because you want to. They are intertwined.

How many mothers out there right now have MULTIPLE kids by MULTIPLE men and don't give one shit about the fathers or their rights? Being a single mom of two or three kids can be good business. Give those fathers a choice about whether they want to be fathers and the number of single mothers cuts in half, and without any significant jump in abortions. I guarantee that.

They are two separate legal issues that are emotionally intertwined.


Are you saying you wish the court to step-in and order a woman to bear a child due to the wishes of the man???

 

[ConHog]

I'd like to think it's just inherent confusion over mixing the discussion with the issue of child support, since both men and women are able to bear that responsibility, but the courts don't take body parts into account once there is a live child who needs to be financially supported.

Many men resent having to pay for a child they would rather have aborted, and other men resent the woman who refuses to bear a child he wishes to keep...So that type of resentment causes confusion and emotional people feel the need to project when searching for a sense of fairness, but the fact remains only a woman can bear a child, so these are really two distinct circumstances.

Mother nature is such a femi-nazi!


I agree with your idea that men should be given the option to abort their financial responsibility and thus relinquish all parental rights.

It is NOT two separate issues. You can't separate the issues simply because you want to. They are intertwined.

How many mothers out there right now have MULTIPLE kids by MULTIPLE men and don't give one shit about the fathers or their rights? Being a single mom of two or three kids can be good business. Give those fathers a choice about whether they want to be fathers and the number of single mothers cuts in half, and without any significant jump in abortions. I guarantee that.

They are two separate legal issues that are emotionally intertwined.


Are you saying you wish the court to step-in and order a woman to bear a child due to the wishes of the man???

No, I have already said in this very thread that I would not go that far. I think that if a man is THAT opposed to abortion he certainly should think twice about what trash he goes poking around in. Nor do I think that a man should be able to force a woman into an abortion if he chooses to not be a father. He should however always have the option of opting out of being part of the child's life financially as well as emotionally if the woman insists on having the child against his wishes. NO ONE should be forced to be a parent. man or woman; and let's be honest, how much help is a reluctant parent to a child?

I will say this though. Any decent woman who ends up pregnant by a guy who truly wishes to raise the child even if she doesn't should do the right thing and have the child and let the man raise it, same deal though, no child support or anything like that if the mother doesn't want to be involved. I know most people are sleazes and could never agree to such a thing, but that WOULD be the decent thing to do.

 

[ConHog]

Again, my blood contributed to you having the right to spew whatever you would like to spew. Even if that includes being an ungrateful bitch.

You're pathological.

HOLY FUCK I NEED A SHOWER!!!!!

That is THE grossest post I have EVER read on USMB, hands down!

You are sick, sick, sick ConHog.

I'm sick,sick,sick for having been shot while serving my country? LOL I'm so sorry to have offended you

 

[Madeline]

Adoption is not a 'poor choice'. It is a wonderful, incredible, brilliant thing to do. My family is enriched by our adopted relatives. They are as much family to me as if they were born into it.... in fact, we are more grateful for them. We consider ourselves blessed by adoption.

So you reason, every child given up for adoption has the same fine outcome? That just is not the case, CG.

Now Madeline, that can be true of any case of the birth of the child, whether raised by the natural parents, or adopted.
My sister's adopted son is wonderful!

Of course I am delighted your family are happy, Kat, but don't play at stupid here. A drug addicted, brain damaged or birth defective child is not going to have much chance at being adopted, and if enough white babies were available once again, neither would children of color.

I grew up in foster care after the orphanage, during my HS years. It was a horror show then....it has only gotten much, much worse. The last fucking thing we need is to force feed that system more child victims.

 

[Kat]

So you reason, every child given up for adoption has the same fine outcome? That just is not the case, CG.

Now Madeline, that can be true of any case of the birth of the child, whether raised by the natural parents, or adopted.
My sister's adopted son is wonderful!

Of course I am delighted your family are happy, Kat, but don't play at stupid here. A drug addicted, brain damaged or birth defective child is not going to have much chance at being adopted, and if enough white babies were available once again, neither would children of color.

I grew up in foster care after the orphanage, during my HS years. It was a horror show then....it has only gotten much, much worse. The last fucking thing we need is to force feed that system more child victims.

Play stupid? Well that is sort of offensive, Madeline...sheesh.
I agree with what you said. But, at the same time, I wanted to clarify that there are adoptions which are great.
I am sorry for what all you have been through.

 

[Valerie]

It is NOT two separate issues. You can't separate the issues simply because you want to. They are intertwined.

How many mothers out there right now have MULTIPLE kids by MULTIPLE men and don't give one shit about the fathers or their rights? Being a single mom of two or three kids can be good business. Give those fathers a choice about whether they want to be fathers and the number of single mothers cuts in half, and without any significant jump in abortions. I guarantee that.

They are two separate legal issues that are emotionally intertwined.


Are you saying you wish the court to step-in and order a woman to bear a child due to the wishes of the man???

No, I have already said in this very thread that I would not go that far.

...

Nor do I think that a man should be able to force a woman into an abortion if he chooses to not be a father.

...

See, how simple that was........? We actually agree...Imagine that!

 

[ConHog]

They are two separate legal issues that are emotionally intertwined.


Are you saying you wish the court to step-in and order a woman to bear a child due to the wishes of the man???

No, I have already said in this very thread that I would not go that far.

...

Nor do I think that a man should be able to force a woman into an abortion if he chooses to not be a father.

...

See, how simple that was........? We actually agree...Imagine that!

Sure, on THAT part. Unfortunately you appear to believe that forcing a man to be parent is okay. It is not.

 

[Madeline]

Now Madeline, that can be true of any case of the birth of the child, whether raised by the natural parents, or adopted.
My sister's adopted son is wonderful!

Of course I am delighted your family are happy, Kat, but don't play at stupid here. A drug addicted, brain damaged or birth defective child is not going to have much chance at being adopted, and if enough white babies were available once again, neither would children of color.

I grew up in foster care after the orphanage, during my HS years. It was a horror show then....it has only gotten much, much worse. The last fucking thing we need is to force feed that system more child victims.

Play stupid? Well that is sort of offensive, Madeline...sheesh.
I agree with what you said. But, at the same time, I wanted to clarify that there are adoptions which are great.
I am sorry for what all you have been through.

I know you are a kind person, Kat. I am (as you can imagine) fairly passionate about children in foster care, and I did not mean to step on your feelings. Of course many adoptions have great outcomes.....but not all of them, and for babies who are never adopted, the future is so bleak it might be more humane to smother them. I'm sorry I spoke harshly to you.

As for me, I sailed through foster care compared to what most teenaged girls had to cope with. One reason I believe there is a God is I walked through so much danger and was never harmed, myself. I sure did witness much grievous harm to others, though. Human beings are capable of the most astounding depravity....at least in my case, the horrible adults in my life were not my own parents.

Strangers trying to harm you is scarey but not crazy-making, like a betrayal by your own parents can be.

 

[Kat]

Of course I am delighted your family are happy, Kat, but don't play at stupid here. A drug addicted, brain damaged or birth defective child is not going to have much chance at being adopted, and if enough white babies were available once again, neither would children of color.

I grew up in foster care after the orphanage, during my HS years. It was a horror show then....it has only gotten much, much worse. The last fucking thing we need is to force feed that system more child victims.

Play stupid? Well that is sort of offensive, Madeline...sheesh.
I agree with what you said. But, at the same time, I wanted to clarify that there are adoptions which are great.
I am sorry for what all you have been through.

I know you are a kind person, Kat. I am (as you can imagine) fairly passionate about children in foster care, and I did not mean to step on your feelings. Of course many adoptions have great outcomes.....but not all of them, and for babies who are never adopted, the future is so bleak it might be more humane to smother them. I'm sorry I spoke harshly to you.

As for me, I sailed through foster care compared to what most teenaged girls had to cope with. One reason I believe there is a God is I walked through so much danger and was never harmed, myself. I sure did witness much grievous harm to others, though. Human beings are capable of the most astounding depravity....at least in my case, the horrible adults in my life were not my own parents.

Strangers trying to harm you is scarey but not crazy-making, like a betrayal by your own parents can be.

 

[Valerie]

No, I have already said in this very thread that I would not go that far.

...

Nor do I think that a man should be able to force a woman into an abortion if he chooses to not be a father.

...

See, how simple that was........? We actually agree...Imagine that!

Sure, on THAT part. Unfortunately you appear to believe that forcing a man to be parent is okay. It is not.

Now you're just making stuff up...Which now I remember why I don't really bother engaging you.

 

[ConHog]

See, how simple that was........? We actually agree...Imagine that!

Sure, on THAT part. Unfortunately you appear to believe that forcing a man to be parent is okay. It is not.

Now you're just making stuff up...Which now I remember why I don't really bother engaging you.

My stating how you appear to me is making stuff up? Would you preferred if I just asked it as a question as you did towards me.

Would you support men being able to opt out of being responsible for children they don't want?

 

[Valerie]

Sure, on THAT part. Unfortunately you appear to believe that forcing a man to be parent is okay. It is not.

Now you're just making stuff up...Which now I remember why I don't really bother engaging you.

My stating how you appear to me is making stuff up? Would you preferred if I just asked it as a question as you did towards me.

Would you support men being able to opt out of being responsible for children they don't want?

How I appear to you.........?


Try reading my posts as they actually appear on the page...




For your answer, see the post you just initially responded to, post number 555:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...on-why-men-dont-get-a-say-28.html#post2897602

 

[Valerie]

Hey, Conjob, this is how you appear to me.......