Abraham? Really?

[ding]

His name was Bethel, the father of Rebecca

Bethel...a horrible transliteration which means House of God.
B'Soo'Al means Virgin of God.
The King James translation is horrendous.

oh-------King James did so well----most of the time

No...it's horrendous when you know even a moderate amount of Hebrew.
There's a lot to learn so start learning.

KJV is "horrendous" ?------not so bad........how well did the king
know Hebrew? ----who did the KJV?

I know Hebrew; the KJV is horrendous.

KJV is horrendous. I prefer the Douay–Rheims.

 

[ding]

No Sara suffered from jealousy and wanted Isaac to inherit. The jewish women are sneaky, remember the Jacob story how his mother helped him steal the birthright from Esau.

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

did Jacob really OWN THOSE BEANS?

Half sister. He asked G-D what to do and G-D told him in this case to let Sarah handle it.

The problem with Hager, is because she had Abraham's baby she got really arrogant and disrespectful to Sarah.

No Sara suffered from jealousy and wanted Isaac to inherit. The jewish women are sneaky, remember the Jacob story how his mother helped him steal the birthright from Esau.

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

What was the thing about the suit with hair, if only Isaac knew but he was blind. Laban , sister of Rebecca was just as dishonest. (also not fair to make a deal of food when one is hungry and you have the food, can you say bribe)

The day you actually study a chapter from the beginning will be...
Ah, who am I kidding; you're too much of a Jew hater to do that.

And you are bias. Your holy book is far from holly. Barron women, incest, thievery, trickery, concubines (slave women) genocide, only if I was a Hebrew could I like Hebrews.

That's just because you don't understand that how to books have to tell how to do it and how not to do it. The thing you are criticizing is the very thing which gives it authenticity. It tells the whole account and doesn't sugar coat and rationalize anything. In fact it is an anti-rationalization tool if ever there was one.

 

[aris2chat]

Which was my point, that law was Abraham, not Babylonian.
Babylonians got it from them.

no at the time of ABRAHAM----leaving Mesopotamia-----those
lands ---ie Ur and Aram and HARAN or whatever------already had
complex legal systems

That's why I would like to know.
I bet you he will say Break with the rights of the first born was law from Abraham.

Primogeniture was around since the beginning of time.

I guess I do have to use the dates.
We are discussing law from 1700 B.C. vs 600B.C.

Abraham left MESOPOTAMIA -------the part called ARAM.
It was not called BABYLON-------his part was called ARAM----about 2000
BC Mesopotamia-----consisted of a few ""countries""-----that had
laws and customs and religion--------The tablets which describe the
COMPLEX legal code of the area is THE CODE OF HUMMARABI----
a compiled set of laws-----about 1800 BC-----but those laws are just
A COMPILATION of the existing laws and customs of that very old society----
so Abraham had LIVED UNDER THOSE LAWS ----GREW UP UNDER THOSE
LAWS-------he did not invent the laws-----he BROUGHT THEM TO
CANAAN in his MIND. He also FOUNDED the community called HEBREWS---
his group of people in Canaan----something like a tribe. The book of genesis
makes it clear that Abraham REPUDIATED LOTS OF THE LAWS AND CUSTOMS
OF MESOPOTAMIA ----he ran his community---theoretically----according to his
own ideas. Hebrew custom was, therefore-----from Mesopotamia ---modified
by ABRAHAM

there is an area in southern Mianni call Aram, just south of Haran

 

[Penelope]

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

did Jacob really OWN THOSE BEANS?

No Sara suffered from jealousy and wanted Isaac to inherit. The jewish women are sneaky, remember the Jacob story how his mother helped him steal the birthright from Esau.

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

What was the thing about the suit with hair, if only Isaac knew but he was blind. Laban , sister of Rebecca was just as dishonest. (also not fair to make a deal of food when one is hungry and you have the food, can you say bribe)

The day you actually study a chapter from the beginning will be...
Ah, who am I kidding; you're too much of a Jew hater to do that.

And you are bias. Your holy book is far from holly. Barron women, incest, thievery, trickery, concubines (slave women) genocide, only if I was a Hebrew could I like Hebrews.

That's just because you don't understand that how to books have to tell how to do it and how not to do it. The thing you are criticizing is the very thing which gives it authenticity. It tells the whole account and doesn't sugar coat and rationalize anything. In fact it is an anti-rationalization tool if ever there was one.

Oh I know God in Ezekiel 16, called them worst than Sodom. The whole of the OT is we reap what we sow , They worship the war God Yahweh and it goes well till they stray and worship other Gods, or give blemished sacrifices. Most of the stories are from oral tradition, changed over the years and exaggerated. No I get it, it made to teach, stray and you will be punished, behave and you will be rewarded.

 

[Indeependent]

did Jacob really OWN THOSE BEANS?

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

What was the thing about the suit with hair, if only Isaac knew but he was blind. Laban , sister of Rebecca was just as dishonest. (also not fair to make a deal of food when one is hungry and you have the food, can you say bribe)

The day you actually study a chapter from the beginning will be...
Ah, who am I kidding; you're too much of a Jew hater to do that.

And you are bias. Your holy book is far from holly. Barron women, incest, thievery, trickery, concubines (slave women) genocide, only if I was a Hebrew could I like Hebrews.

That's just because you don't understand that how to books have to tell how to do it and how not to do it. The thing you are criticizing is the very thing which gives it authenticity. It tells the whole account and doesn't sugar coat and rationalize anything. In fact it is an anti-rationalization tool if ever there was one.

Oh I know God in Ezekiel 16, called them worst than Sodom. The whole of the OT is we reap what we sow , They worship the war God Yahweh and it goes well till they stray and worship other Gods, or give blemished sacrifices. Most of the stories are from oral tradition, changed over the years and exaggerated. No I get it, it made to teach, stray and you will be punished, behave and you will be rewarded.

Of course the rest of Ezekiel is how God will bring the Jews back to Jerusalem and Israel but we'll just skip that part to mollify Penelope.

 

[ding]

did Jacob really OWN THOSE BEANS?

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

What was the thing about the suit with hair, if only Isaac knew but he was blind. Laban , sister of Rebecca was just as dishonest. (also not fair to make a deal of food when one is hungry and you have the food, can you say bribe)

The day you actually study a chapter from the beginning will be...
Ah, who am I kidding; you're too much of a Jew hater to do that.

And you are bias. Your holy book is far from holly. Barron women, incest, thievery, trickery, concubines (slave women) genocide, only if I was a Hebrew could I like Hebrews.

That's just because you don't understand that how to books have to tell how to do it and how not to do it. The thing you are criticizing is the very thing which gives it authenticity. It tells the whole account and doesn't sugar coat and rationalize anything. In fact it is an anti-rationalization tool if ever there was one.

Oh I know God in Ezekiel 16, called them worst than Sodom. The whole of the OT is we reap what we sow , They worship the war God Yahweh and it goes well till they stray and worship other Gods, or give blemished sacrifices. Most of the stories are from oral tradition, changed over the years and exaggerated. No I get it, it made to teach, stray and you will be punished, behave and you will be rewarded.

That's a part of it but it is much much more than that. It is the account of a people who cycled between remembering and forgetting God and what happens to them. It is a cycle that is still going on today and probably will for many years to come.

This right here: "No I get it, it made to teach, stray and you will be punished, behave and you will be rewarded."

Is the talk of a really really stupid subversive person.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Did ding post something salient that I would agree with? Ees possible.



Seriously, outside him not being 4f funny, I probably agree with ding on 99% of stuff.

 

[Marion Morrison]

It's not good or wise to forget God. I can attest to that.

 

[CMike]

No Sara suffered from jealousy and wanted Isaac to inherit. The jewish women are sneaky, remember the Jacob story how his mother helped him steal the birthright from Esau.

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

Well...actually I think what Rebecca and Jacob was wrong to deceive Issac. And I believe what happened to Jacob's son, Joseph, was a punishment for that.

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

How do you know this? It doesn't say that.

You should not deceive your husband.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[aris2chat]

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

Well...actually I think what Rebecca and Jacob was wrong to deceive Issac. And I believe what happened to Jacob's son, Joseph, was a punishment for that.

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

How do you know this? It doesn't say that.

You should not deceive your husband.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

every woman has her secrets she does not share with her husband...........or god

 

[Indeependent]

No Sara suffered from jealousy and wanted Isaac to inherit. The jewish women are sneaky, remember the Jacob story how his mother helped him steal the birthright from Esau.

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

Well...actually I think what Rebecca and Jacob was wrong to deceive Issac. And I believe what happened to Jacob's son, Joseph, was a punishment for that.

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

 

[aris2chat]

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

Well...actually I think what Rebecca and Jacob was wrong to deceive Issac. And I believe what happened to Jacob's son, Joseph, was a punishment for that.

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

 

[Indeependent]

Well...actually I think what Rebecca and Jacob was wrong to deceive Issac. And I believe what happened to Jacob's son, Joseph, was a punishment for that.

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

 

[ding]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

 

[CMike]

Verses?
Sarah was jealous...verse?
steal the birthright...didn't Jacob buy it from Eisav.
Feel stupid yet?

Well...actually I think what Rebecca and Jacob was wrong to deceive Issac. And I believe what happened to Jacob's son, Joseph, was a punishment for that.

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Where does it say he thought the blessing had to go to Yakov?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[CMike]

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

Aris is right.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Indeependent]

Well...actually I think what Rebecca and Jacob was wrong to deceive Issac. And I believe what happened to Jacob's son, Joseph, was a punishment for that.

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Where does it say he thought the blessing had to go to Yakov?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

After Eisav explodes into the tent, Yitzchak says, "Indeed, he is blessed.".
I am way too tired t find the actual verse at the moment.
The problem is no one is reading from verse 1 through the end of the episode.

 

[Indeependent]

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

Aris is right.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

About the coat he is correct.
The issue is Yitzchak's reaction when he knows Yaakov got the blessing.
Then Eisav begs Yitzchak for a blessing.

 

[Indeependent]

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

Aris is right.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

About the coat he is correct.
The issue is Yitzchak's reaction when he knows Yaakov got the blessing.
Then Eisav begs Yitzchak for a blessing.

Genesis 27:33...
And Isaac trembled very exceedingly, and said: 'Who then is he that hath taken venison, and brought it me, and I have eaten of all before thou camest, and have blessed him? yea, and he shall be blessed.'

 

[aris2chat]

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Where does it say he thought the blessing had to go to Yakov?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

After Eisav explodes into the tent, Yitzchak says, "Indeed, he is blessed.".
I am way too tired t find the actual verse at the moment.
The problem is no one is reading from verse 1 through the end of the episode.

gen 27:38 or there about