Abraham? Really?

[Indeependent]

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Where does it say he thought the blessing had to go to Yakov?


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After Eisav explodes into the tent, Yitzchak says, "Indeed, he is blessed.".
I am way too tired t find the actual verse at the moment.
The problem is no one is reading from verse 1 through the end of the episode.

gen 27:38 or there about

See post 259.

 

[aris2chat]

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

Aris is right.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

About the coat he is correct.
The issue is Yitzchak's reaction when he knows Yaakov got the blessing.
Then Eisav begs Yitzchak for a blessing.

Genesis 27:33...
And Isaac trembled very exceedingly, and said: 'Who then is he that hath taken venison, and brought it me, and I have eaten of all before thou camest, and have blessed him? yea, and he shall be blessed.'

>>37 But Isaac replied to Esau, "Behold, I have made him your master, and all his relatives I have given to him as servants; and with grain and new wine I have sustained him. Now as for you then, what can I do, my son?" 38 Esau said to his father, "Do you have only one blessing, my father? Bless me, even me also, O my father." So Esau lifted his voice and wept. 39 Then Isaac his father answered and said to him, "Behold, away from the fertility of the earth shall be your dwelling, And away from the dew of heaven from above.…<<

 

[irosie91]

What was the thing about the suit with hair, if only Isaac knew but he was blind. Laban , sister of Rebecca was just as dishonest. (also not fair to make a deal of food when one is hungry and you have the food, can you say bribe)

The day you actually study a chapter from the beginning will be...
Ah, who am I kidding; you're too much of a Jew hater to do that.

And you are bias. Your holy book is far from holly. Barron women, incest, thievery, trickery, concubines (slave women) genocide, only if I was a Hebrew could I like Hebrews.

That's just because you don't understand that how to books have to tell how to do it and how not to do it. The thing you are criticizing is the very thing which gives it authenticity. It tells the whole account and doesn't sugar coat and rationalize anything. In fact it is an anti-rationalization tool if ever there was one.

Oh I know God in Ezekiel 16, called them worst than Sodom. The whole of the OT is we reap what we sow , They worship the war God Yahweh and it goes well till they stray and worship other Gods, or give blemished sacrifices. Most of the stories are from oral tradition, changed over the years and exaggerated. No I get it, it made to teach, stray and you will be punished, behave and you will be rewarded.

Of course the rest of Ezekiel is how God will bring the Jews back to Jerusalem and Israel but we'll just skip that part to mollify Penelope.

she likes the fields of dry bones parts

 

[Penelope]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

Which rules are you talking about ?

 

[irosie91]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

Which rules are you talking about ?

probably "natural laws"----the WAY STUFF ACTS----like Sir Isaac Newton's laws of thermodynamics.

 

[Penelope]

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

35 years and you still do not get it. Its about deceit.

 

[peach174]

The main theme of the Bible is, man is born into a sinful world and sin will be unavoidable (natural law).
Mankind must live as well as possible of choosing your lifestyle of good and evil. Mankind will fall into evil because evil is easier. Evil is always more fun than doing what's right and just.
The stories are of mankind's failures and the lessons learned and then changing.

 

[irosie91]

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

35 years and you still do not get it. Its about deceit.

He gets it, penny dear. You do not. Long ago--(very long ago-----in my adolescence) I read
the Bhagavad Gita and the Ramayana------and the Koran. Not being an idiot---I did not come
out of that experience imagining that I NOW UNDERSTAND HINDUISM AND ISLAM. When reading
scriptural writing-----understanding cannot be attained by a person not familiar with the original
language or the cultural symbols and allusions----of the people that generated the work. In the
course of my life I have worked with and socialized with both Hindus and Muslims-----and THUS
came to some level of understanding of the religions and their scriptural works. Yitzchak is a
very interesting CHARACTER in the bible. In fact--in terms of ancient literature he has a VERY
VERY important deficit-----HE IS BLIND. Remember Oedipus? he got to be blind too.
Remember TIRESIAS? He is a BLIND ORACLE that pops up in Greek Legends-----
Blindness is a much recognized SYMBOL of something like -----"ABILITY TO SEE INVISIBLE
TRUTHS"------Yitzchak gets that role lots in his life-------he is considered to be at least
somewhat blind since the "sacrifice incident" It is a symbol MUCH understood in ancient time----
(did you pass high school literature class?) The story of Isaac and his sons is not a story about
DECEIT-------that is the theme is not DECEIT-------it is insight

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

 

[peach174]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

Picking and choosing what is right and comfortable for each person is freedom.
Your choice is your own.
Freedom is why we have so many diverse types of Christianity and all other forms of different religions here in America even atheists.
One way of thinking for all is not freedom.

The gospels were not trashed, that is a lie.
Was there some mistakes ,yes but not very earth shaking.
The theme is consistent, picking and choosing on the small things of imperfection won't lead you to what the book is saying.

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

Picking and choosing what is right and comfortable for each person is freedom.
Your choice is your own.
Freedom is why we have so many diverse types of Christianity and all other forms of different religions here in America even atheists.
One way of thinking for all is not freedom.

The gospels were not trashed, that is a lie.
Was there some mistakes ,yes but not very earth shaking.
The theme is consistent, picking and choosing on the small things of imperfection won't lead you to what the book is saying.

I get that. But picking and choosing and then saying i have bias? Thats a load of crap. The entire concept of what god is, is opinion.
How do you know what was in those gospels? How old are you? Lol
The entire religion of christianity today is built around what ONE MAN wanted it to be.
Another reason why i cant jump on board that train.

 

[irosie91]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

Picking and choosing what is right and comfortable for each person is freedom.
Your choice is your own.
Freedom is why we have so many diverse types of Christianity and all other forms of different religions here in America even atheists.
One way of thinking for all is not freedom.

The gospels were not trashed, that is a lie.
Was there some mistakes ,yes but not very earth shaking.
The theme is consistent, picking and choosing on the small things of imperfection won't lead you to what the book is saying.

I get that. But picking and choosing and then saying i have bias? Thats a load of crap. The entire concept of what god is, is opinion.
How do you know what was in those gospels? How old are you? Lol
The entire religion of christianity today is built around what ONE MAN wanted it to be.
Another reason why i cant jump on board that train.

ONE MAN? which "one man"

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

Picking and choosing what is right and comfortable for each person is freedom.
Your choice is your own.
Freedom is why we have so many diverse types of Christianity and all other forms of different religions here in America even atheists.
One way of thinking for all is not freedom.

The gospels were not trashed, that is a lie.
Was there some mistakes ,yes but not very earth shaking.
The theme is consistent, picking and choosing on the small things of imperfection won't lead you to what the book is saying.

I get that. But picking and choosing and then saying i have bias? Thats a load of crap. The entire concept of what god is, is opinion.
How do you know what was in those gospels? How old are you? Lol
The entire religion of christianity today is built around what ONE MAN wanted it to be.
Another reason why i cant jump on board that train.

ONE MAN? which "one man"

It was a "council" but was lead by one man. I mean, he single handedly ruled Rome..

 

[CMike]

I don't------it is obvious that Isaac was losing it------and Rebecca was the brains of the family

It still doesn't excuse deceiving her husband. I know that G-D gave her a prophesy that Jacob should get it. However, deceiving your husband and you father is wrong.

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Where does it say he thought the blessing had to go to Yakov?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

After Eisav explodes into the tent, Yitzchak says, "Indeed, he is blessed.".
I am way too tired t find the actual verse at the moment.
The problem is no one is reading from verse 1 through the end of the episode.

That's true. That was once he realized what happened.

I wouldn't say no one.

 

[irosie91]

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

Picking and choosing what is right and comfortable for each person is freedom.
Your choice is your own.
Freedom is why we have so many diverse types of Christianity and all other forms of different religions here in America even atheists.
One way of thinking for all is not freedom.

The gospels were not trashed, that is a lie.
Was there some mistakes ,yes but not very earth shaking.
The theme is consistent, picking and choosing on the small things of imperfection won't lead you to what the book is saying.

I get that. But picking and choosing and then saying i have bias? Thats a load of crap. The entire concept of what god is, is opinion.
How do you know what was in those gospels? How old are you? Lol
The entire religion of christianity today is built around what ONE MAN wanted it to be.
Another reason why i cant jump on board that train.

ONE MAN? which "one man"

It was a "council" but was lead by one man. I mean, he single handedly ruled Rome..

Oh HIM! be careful------there are a whole bunch of people who have decided that
character is a "saint"

 

[CMike]

Isaac eventually UNDERSTOOD. I deceive my husband all the time----HE UNDERSTANDS

Yitzchak smelled the difference between Yaakov and Eisav and realized that the blessing had to go to Yaakov.
Read the verses.

Jacob was wearing the cloths of Esau, so blind Jacob though he was Esau

I've been studying the story for about 35 years.

Aris is right.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

About the coat he is correct.
The issue is Yitzchak's reaction when he knows Yaakov got the blessing.
Then Eisav begs Yitzchak for a blessing.

It was too late. He already gave it to Jacob.

 

[TNHarley]

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

Picking and choosing what is right and comfortable for each person is freedom.
Your choice is your own.
Freedom is why we have so many diverse types of Christianity and all other forms of different religions here in America even atheists.
One way of thinking for all is not freedom.

The gospels were not trashed, that is a lie.
Was there some mistakes ,yes but not very earth shaking.
The theme is consistent, picking and choosing on the small things of imperfection won't lead you to what the book is saying.

I get that. But picking and choosing and then saying i have bias? Thats a load of crap. The entire concept of what god is, is opinion.
How do you know what was in those gospels? How old are you? Lol
The entire religion of christianity today is built around what ONE MAN wanted it to be.
Another reason why i cant jump on board that train.

ONE MAN? which "one man"

It was a "council" but was lead by one man. I mean, he single handedly ruled Rome..

Oh HIM! be careful------there are a whole bunch of people who have decided that
character is a "saint"

Isnt it debated whether he even believed or not?

 

[peach174]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I see that you think you are clever. What you are is confirming your bias. That's not clever. That's ignorant and lazy.

Before you can understand "who" God is, you have to believe that there is intelligence behind the rules which existed before space and time were created.

"who" god is, is COMPLETELY subjective.
You can see that in this thread; people picking and choosing what to believe. All the gospels that got trashed. SO MUCH more i could add that would add to that.
People keep saying i have a "bias" when the fucking book says what i wrote out. People either look at it for what it is or what they WANT it to be.
Nice "try" at logic though.

Picking and choosing what is right and comfortable for each person is freedom.
Your choice is your own.
Freedom is why we have so many diverse types of Christianity and all other forms of different religions here in America even atheists.
One way of thinking for all is not freedom.

The gospels were not trashed, that is a lie.
Was there some mistakes ,yes but not very earth shaking.
The theme is consistent, picking and choosing on the small things of imperfection won't lead you to what the book is saying.

I get that. But picking and choosing and then saying i have bias? Thats a load of crap. The entire concept of what god is, is opinion.
How do you know what was in those gospels? How old are you? Lol
The entire religion of christianity today is built around what ONE MAN wanted it to be.
Another reason why i cant jump on board that train.

Yet I have followed his teachings did what the inner voice said and every question I had of why this way eventually was answered.
I was young and rebellious did sinful fun yet I never stopped believing , Jesus never left me even though I left him.
I believe because he leads me.
The proof for Christians is believing and then feeling his guidance and Revelations , which is happening and in the order it was written.

 

[CMike]

The main theme of the Bible is, man is born into a sinful world and sin will be unavoidable (natural law).
Mankind must live as well as possible of choosing your lifestyle of good and evil. Mankind will fall into evil because evil is easier. Evil is always more fun than doing what's right and just.
The stories are of mankind's failures and the lessons learned and then changing.

Everyone is human, and everyone makes mistakes. It's about real people, and real people mess up.

 

[TNHarley]

Revelations , which is happening and in the order it was written.

what do you mean?