Adoption

[Sunshine]

Wouldn't bother me; would you expect it to bother many people?

I don't know. I don't have a dog in the hunt. Just a question. My husband and I prepared documents stating who we wanted raising our children if we predeceased them. My daughter and her husband have done the same. Everyone should do that. Of course, many adopted children have not lost parents due to death, they have lost children because they abused or neglected them.

I might add that if both parents predecease their children, the appointment of a custodial person is ENTIRELY a court decision. But if you have been proactive, they will usually respect your wishes.

That's what God Parents are for, depending upon one's religious affiliation.

We didn't do the God parent thing here. But something official is better than nothing at all.

 

[Sunshine]

I see nothing wrong with interracial adoptions, provided it is in the best interest of the child. For instance, if the child has to choose between a foster home or a caring family of a different race, hands down the child should be placed with the caring family.

We already have interracial adoptions from overseas countries, and for the most part there are no issues, otherwise the process would have been discontinued. We also have interracial marriage, and children in those families are doing fine, so I don't see why interracial adoption would be an issue.

I have issues with any overseas adoptions.....

until every last child in this country has been adopted.... none should be allowed from overseas.

Well Putin, who doesn't want homosexual Americans adopting Russian children, agrees. They now have a ban on adopting their orphans out to Americans.

 

[Asclepias]

Alright.... hypocritical question.


A black couple living in the inner city hood looking to adopt a child. Low income, no education, no prospects in life.

a white couple, living in a good neighborhood, wealthy, highly educated and upwardly mobile

the child in question.... likes the white couple better then the black couple.

who should be given the black child for adoption?

Wow what a loaded lopsided question! I still say the Black family.

1. No one has "no prospects" in life.
2. Inner city does not equal bad.
3. Kids like to eat candy for breakfast so I would not make a decision based of of that unless the child exhibited some fear or extreme distress.
4. You can become educated and in the process teach your child the importance of education and the subsequent upward mobility first hand. This is going to be closer to what the child most likely will experience in their own climb to the top.

 

[Sunshine]

and here is another FACT....

Why arent the black people who could "prepare adoptive children as black" not adopting them?

how may adoptive children do obamas have?
jessie jackson?
all sharpton?
oprah?
micheal jackson?


is there something wrong with single white mothers ..... being mothers to their half black children? Should white women be prohibited from having black children becasue they can bring up their black children.... black enough?

i also dont see that barry had any problems connecting with his blackness..... or suffering in any way not being brought up black enough by his white mother.



Loving parenting is NOT about preparing you to be a color. It is about bringing a child they love up to be a good, hopefully successful. happy person.

Probably because they don't want to adopt any children? I didnt realize you had to adopt children if you were well off financially. Why are there still white kids up for adoption? Shouldnt some wealthy white people adopt all of them?

Why would there be something wrong with white mothers that have children that are half Black? If they had the child with a Black guy chances are they are a little more knowledgeable about Black culture than one never having been involved with a Black guy. They have resources such as the child's Black grandparents, uncles, and aunts to assist as well. Also a white women with a mixed child has one important thing going for her. Its her child.

If you notice the POTUS married a Black woman. Anything he missed out on regarding Black culture is being provided by his wife.

You are correct. Being a loving parent is not about a color but it is about providing that child the best tools to deal with life. Unfortunately people that pretend life for a Black person is just like life for a white person is not dealing in reality.

until every black family has adopted every black child in this country...... then the issue of being " not brought up black enough" is nothing more then racism.

There are many reasons other than race that figures into whether a child is adopted or not. Age for one. Most want an infant. Medical status is another. It is very difficult to adopt special needs children. In some cases they have 'subsidized' adoptions to help get those children into good homes because many parents are just not able to deal with the cost of their care. Think about having well children of your own, and adopting an AIDS infected child. Just not going to happen in most cases.

My sister was 2 when my folks adopted her. She was my dad's favorite of the 3 of us, and the only one he called for on his death bed.

 

[Sunshine]

I see nothing wrong with interracial adoptions, provided it is in the best interest of the child. For instance, if the child has to choose between a foster home or a caring family of a different race, hands down the child should be placed with the caring family.

We already have interracial adoptions from overseas countries, and for the most part there are no issues, otherwise the process would have been discontinued. We also have interracial marriage, and children in those families are doing fine, so I don't see why interracial adoption would be an issue.

I have issues with any overseas adoptions.....

until every last child in this country has been adopted.... none should be allowed from overseas.

Except that too many people have adopted babies in this country and raised them for a few years before the parents decided they wanted them back and the children were taken from them by force. That's why my neighbor decided to adopt from china. She wanted special needs children. First she adopted an adorable 18 month old little girl. Apparently, in China, if you're 18 months old and not adopted yet, you're special needs. They went back a few years later and adopted an 11 year old boy with a cleft pallet. He's had many operations and graduated from High school and is now going to college. She takes the kids to Chinese lessons every week so that if they ever decide to go back to China, they will be able to communicate.

Personally, I think China is selling their children and it's wrong, but those two kids are very lucky to be in that family. I too think children here should be adopted first but when you read about someone with a child and that child is taken from them, it would break me. We need to change our laws, once a child is adopted, that should be it, no one should be able to come back and take that child from you even if the mother didn't tell the father about the child.

There is an old story about a woman who always cut the shank end off her ham to cook it. Her husband asked her why she did that. She said that she did it because her mother did it. So he went to her mother and asked why she cut the shank end off the ham when she cooked it. She said, 'I had to so it would fit in the pan.'

China is a lot like that. Sons were much desired back when they were needed to help with the work. Now, with their one child policy they still want sons because they see them to be more valuable than daughters, but with no rationale other than the old ways. So a lot of Chinese adoptions are girls. I read a few years back that there is a critical shortage now of women for Chinese men to marry and some are even kidnaping women from other Asian countries to marry.

 

[Sunshine]

I agree to white couples adopting Black children in the event no Black couple can or will do it. Why is bringing up a child with the best tools to handle life racist?

and again.... that is racist. The fact is.... black people do not adopt children as much as white couples as far as i can tell. If they did.... this would be a non issue.

Children should be adopted by anyone who wants them. It is not about color..... its about lavishing love on that child. Adoptive parents fall in love with the child.... not its color.

Again no it is not racist. It doesnt matter if black people adopt less. That has nothing to do with it. If it did then there would be no white kids up for adoption. Children should not be adopted solely by what someone else wishes. They should be adopted with the intention of giving that child the best life and tools to deal with life as possible. They are not pets. I may want to adopt a whale but I don't own a ocean. I can be as well intentioned as possible but not be able to give someone what they need to make it through life.

People are going to seek out what they want in an adoptive child. You can't force an adoptive parent to take a child they don't want.

 

[Asclepias]

and again.... that is racist. The fact is.... black people do not adopt children as much as white couples as far as i can tell. If they did.... this would be a non issue.

Children should be adopted by anyone who wants them. It is not about color..... its about lavishing love on that child. Adoptive parents fall in love with the child.... not its color.

Again no it is not racist. It doesnt matter if black people adopt less. That has nothing to do with it. If it did then there would be no white kids up for adoption. Children should not be adopted solely by what someone else wishes. They should be adopted with the intention of giving that child the best life and tools to deal with life as possible. They are not pets. I may want to adopt a whale but I don't own a ocean. I can be as well intentioned as possible but not be able to give someone what they need to make it through life.

People are going to seek out what they want in an adoptive child. You can't force an adoptive parent to take a child they don't want.

What are you talking about?

 

[syrenn]

Alright.... hypocritical question.


A black couple living in the inner city hood looking to adopt a child. Low income, no education, no prospects in life.

a white couple, living in a good neighborhood, wealthy, highly educated and upwardly mobile

the child in question.... likes the white couple better then the black couple.

who should be given the black child for adoption?

Wow what a loaded lopsided question! I still say the Black family.

1. No one has "no prospects" in life.
2. Inner city does not equal bad.
3. Kids like to eat candy for breakfast so I would not make a decision based of of that unless the child exhibited some fear or extreme distress.
4. You can become educated and in the process teach your child the importance of education and the subsequent upward mobility first hand. This is going to be closer to what the child most likely will experience in their own climb to the top.

it was supposed to be lopsided.

and you prove my point


all you care about is race.


anyone with half a brain, with the child's best interests for an advantaged life.... would not have chosen he way you did.

 

[Sunshine]

You're [sic] opener doesn't exactly pose a direct question Bro'.

Alright, then how about this one: Should the social workers in question really be working in that field if they are motivated by race rather than placing children with good families?

First and foremost, the responsibility of the social worker should be to place children in a safe and nurturing environment.

Of course, being that we live in a society where the racial makeup of an individual still largely defines how they are initially perceived, especially if they are a minority, there should be dialogue between the adoption administrators and the prospective parents prior to adoption to ensure that they have a clear understanding of some of the unique challenges that could be associated with adopting a child who is part of a racial minority, and are equipped to handle those challenges.

As an example, I can use some friends of our family as an example. They are caucasion and adopted a black child some years ago. They encountered some negative backlash from both sides of their biological family, as well as negative reactions from people of different races that they had considered to be "friends", but ended being shocked by their negativity.

In the everyday responsibilities of parenting the child they have encountered mixed reactions at parent/teacher conferences, as well as regular activities like little league baseball and soccer games. Even when the child has friends come to visit, he has been asked, "why don't you look like your Mom and Dad?".

These are all issues to be considered when adopting interacially.

As an editorial comment, I have to acknowledge the strength of these friends, this adoption has brought them closer together, and led them to seek out others in support groups who have taken on similar responsibility.

Just my two cents, for whatever it is worth.

People used to say that my brother and I looked like our mother and my sister looked like our father. Only thing is she didn't. People try to fill in the blanks and connect the dots. All my life, I noticed that my sister smelled different than the rest of us. Just her body smells, her closet, her shoes, everything. Her hands and feet were long and slender, ours short and wide. Even though we were all the same race, she was different. I saw one adoptee on a TV s how once who said that is how she figured out she was adopted. The rest of the family were fair, freckled, and blonde or redhead, blue eyed. She was dark complicated with black hair and dark brown eyes.

 

[Sunshine]

Have you considered that making racial distinctions such as this, even for the best of intentions, can only help to continue racial divides in the country? That every example of systemic attempts to keep people within their own race, so to speak, is an expression of the differences between people rather than the similarities, and an almost inherent endorsement of continuing racial separations?

Your statements are also somewhat of a condemnation of interracial couples. You are basically saying such relationships are less than racially similar couples because any children involved will be at a disadvantage.

Then there's the question of who this should apply to. Blacks go to black families first; who decides who is or is not black? Should the same reasoning apply to whites, Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, which racial designations should be placed in families with similar backgrounds and why? And who determines which people fit the criteria to be part of a given race?

Yes I have considered that very thing. I once was of the opinion that it should not matter and making it a point of contention was at least maintaining the racial divide. Then I woke up. As a black person I have more societal barriers to success in life from the get go simply because I was lucky enough to be born with brown skin. My parents taught me how to cope with those barriers and maintain my resolve to keep going despite what the world throws at me. They taught me a shared history that a white person just would not be able to do.

My statements are not a condemnation of interracial couples. What makes you think that? Biracial/interracial Black children literally are Black and whatever. They can have a choice as to which side they claim or not claim one at all and embrace both. Are they less capable? It depends. I can use my oldest daughter as an example. Her mother is white and knew very little about Black people until she met me. My girl cousins had to teach her how to take care of my daughters hair. Since a mother is the primary source of instruction for a daughter can a white mother teach her more effectively how to be a black woman than a Black woman? If society was not as racial as it is this would be a non issue.

When deciding who goes where that decision should be made by the social workers which is what this OP is about. I believe its imperative that adoptions should be "racially coded" as a first option. I have however thought of the benefit that may be gained by placing a white child in a "minority" family. There would be more enlightened white people teaching other white people the truth about "minorities".

How can a dark-skinned child of mixed race have a choice about 'which side they claim' if skin color creates this impenetrable divide? Sure, a child with a white and a black parent can say they are white, but if they have dark skin, aren't you saying that they will have a 'black' life experience because of it?

I'm sorry, but needing help doing a child's hair is an extremely poor example of why it's better to worry about race when it comes to children. More, I don't see how that example would change a great deal if society were not as racial. No matter what society is like, a parent in that situation may need outside help determining the best way to deal with the child's hair.

On to the section I put in bold. I believe they show pretty conclusively that your point has nothing to do with races being better off with their own. Instead, it shows you think minorities are better off within their own race. Whites, on the other hand, you think would gain separate advantages being reared by people of other races. It is a very clear bias. Why wouldn't minority children gain perspective on what it means to be white by growing up with a white family? Either you believe that the experiences of whites are much easier to understand than those of minorities, or you think that the experiences of whites are less worth knowing. I can't see what other reason you have for the difference in importance when it comes to race.

LOL, back in my early days of nursing I bathed and groomed black people who were in the hospital. All you need to do their hair is a larger comb with wider gaps between the teeth. A black tech noticed my trouble one day and filled me in on that one.

 

[Sunshine]

I have issues with any overseas adoptions.....

until every last child in this country has been adopted.... none should be allowed from overseas.

Good point, though I wouldn't want it to be a law. There are plenty of children here in this country of many different "races" who need to be adopted. I think that we should concentrate on our own "house" before we start taking care of other people's "houses".

The problem here is the adoption process is difficult and long. It makes me wonder if that was the law...if the adoption process here would get better.

Couples who cannot qualify in the US for one reason or another are the ones who go for foreign adoptions. Gay guy I used to work for and his partner adopted from Vietnam.

 

[Sunshine]

Yes I have considered that very thing. I once was of the opinion that it should not matter and making it a point of contention was at least maintaining the racial divide. Then I woke up. As a black person I have more societal barriers to success in life from the get go simply because I was lucky enough to be born with brown skin. My parents taught me how to cope with those barriers and maintain my resolve to keep going despite what the world throws at me. They taught me a shared history that a white person just would not be able to do.

My statements are not a condemnation of interracial couples. What makes you think that? Biracial/interracial Black children literally are Black and whatever. They can have a choice as to which side they claim or not claim one at all and embrace both. Are they less capable? It depends. I can use my oldest daughter as an example. Her mother is white and knew very little about Black people until she met me. My girl cousins had to teach her how to take care of my daughters hair. Since a mother is the primary source of instruction for a daughter can a white mother teach her more effectively how to be a black woman than a Black woman? If society was not as racial as it is this would be a non issue.

When deciding who goes where that decision should be made by the social workers which is what this OP is about. I believe its imperative that adoptions should be "racially coded" as a first option. I have however thought of the benefit that may be gained by placing a white child in a "minority" family. There would be more enlightened white people teaching other white people the truth about "minorities".

How can a dark-skinned child of mixed race have a choice about 'which side they claim' if skin color creates this impenetrable divide? Sure, a child with a white and a black parent can say they are white, but if they have dark skin, aren't you saying that they will have a 'black' life experience because of it?

I'm sorry, but needing help doing a child's hair is an extremely poor example of why it's better to worry about race when it comes to children. More, I don't see how that example would change a great deal if society were not as racial. No matter what society is like, a parent in that situation may need outside help determining the best way to deal with the child's hair.

On to the section I put in bold. I believe they show pretty conclusively that your point has nothing to do with races being better off with their own. Instead, it shows you think minorities are better off within their own race. Whites, on the other hand, you think would gain separate advantages being reared by people of other races. It is a very clear bias. Why wouldn't minority children gain perspective on what it means to be white by growing up with a white family? Either you believe that the experiences of whites are much easier to understand than those of minorities, or you think that the experiences of whites are less worth knowing. I can't see what other reason you have for the difference in importance when it comes to race.

A darker skinned mixed child can have the choice by refusing to bow to what society tells them they are. Yes they will be treated as Black but if they refuse to accept it there is not much anyone can do about the fact that they are indeed half white. I know kids like that now.

It may be a poor example to you but you may not understand about how important hair is to Black females. In a society where race is not an issue a child with a white adopted mother would have no qualms about going to a Black source for information. There are cultural differences between the ethnicities to deny that is an insult and indicative of why a white couple would have a harder time raising a black child. You just dont seem to get it.

If whites were one of the groups historically and presently discriminated against I would believe they should be offered to a white couple as a first option. Even so I still think its important but less of an urgent need for white children. As society stands they have no burden to bear being of the ethnicity thats is acclaimed to be superior. A minority child in the home of a white couple would not learn as much. You forget white culture is promoted at every turn. It is taught in school and every time you turn on the TV. Its everywhere from the fact Christopher Columbus is hailed as discovering America to whatever is the top rated show on TV to the first president being a white person. Everything else is secondary and that is reflected in the fact that most people know very little about the history of minorities in this country.

I know several black adults who were raised by white parents. It is not they who shun 'black society.' Black society shuns them because they are well spoken, are not street fighters, and have different values. Of course, this is the fault of the white parents, and that is what you mean when you say white parents can't raise them culturally appropriately. White parents don't raise them to be racists, like you. That is your big issue.

 

[Sunshine]

How do you know they dont?

aaahhh so what you are trying to say is white couples are going out of their way telling agencies.... they want a black kid?

funny that.

and again.... what you are saying is that white women should not be having black children..... they cant bring them up black enough for you.

Simple. They are not Black. How can they possibly teach Black culture better than a Black person?

Yes there are white couples that do that. Nothing wrong with it as they are trying to help but first priority should be given to a black family.

No. Thats what you think I'm saying. The fact that the child is half white creates a different dynamic. They need that white mother/father to provide the other half of self identity. You keep saying "black enough" and attributing it to me. Why are you doing that when I have never said those words?

you dont seem to get it do you

raising a child has nothing to do with "teaching black or white culture".... unless you are trying to raise a racist.

That is what the black social worker thing is about. The seek to increase numbers for the black community. According to them, if a black child is raised by whites, that child is lost to the black community. What's wrong with this picture? Hint. Think bringing people together.

 

[Sunshine]

Alright.... hypocritical question.


A black couple living in the inner city hood looking to adopt a child. Low income, no education, no prospects in life.

a white couple, living in a good neighborhood, wealthy, highly educated and upwardly mobile

the child in question.... likes the white couple better then the black couple.

who should be given the black child for adoption?

The couple living in the hood can teach the child the appropriate prejudices.

 

[Gracie]

black adults who were raised by white parents. It is not they who shun 'black society.' Black society shuns them because they are well spoken, are not street fighters, and have different values.

Yup. I have quite a few black friends who were raised by white parents and this is exactly the case from what they have experienced from what they told me. I don't know of any white friends raised by blacks. So I cannot answer about that one.

 

[Sunshine]

Simple. They are not Black. How can they possibly teach Black culture better than a Black person?

Yes there are white couples that do that. Nothing wrong with it as they are trying to help but first priority should be given to a black family.

No. Thats what you think I'm saying. The fact that the child is half white creates a different dynamic. They need that white mother/father to provide the other half of self identity. You keep saying "black enough" and attributing it to me. Why are you doing that when I have never said those words?

you dont seem to get it do you

raising a child has nothing to do with "teaching black or white culture".... unless you are trying to raise a racist.

Thanks for proving my point. I guess at this point I just have to say I disagree with your opinion.

Had that one sewn up long before this thread!

 

[Asclepias]

Alright.... hypocritical question.


A black couple living in the inner city hood looking to adopt a child. Low income, no education, no prospects in life.

a white couple, living in a good neighborhood, wealthy, highly educated and upwardly mobile

the child in question.... likes the white couple better then the black couple.

who should be given the black child for adoption?

Wow what a loaded lopsided question! I still say the Black family.

1. No one has "no prospects" in life.
2. Inner city does not equal bad.
3. Kids like to eat candy for breakfast so I would not make a decision based of of that unless the child exhibited some fear or extreme distress.
4. You can become educated and in the process teach your child the importance of education and the subsequent upward mobility first hand. This is going to be closer to what the child most likely will experience in their own climb to the top.

it was supposed to be lopsided.

and you prove my point


all you care about is race.


anyone with half a brain, with the child's best interests for an advantaged life.... would not have chosen he way you did.

You just proved my point as well. Are you saying money is more important than a nurturing home? Yes I do care about the ethnicity of the couple for reasons I already expressed.

 

[Gracie]

Money shouldn't even come into the equation. Nor color/race.

 

[Unkotare]

I see nothing wrong with interracial adoptions, provided it is in the best interest of the child. For instance, if the child has to choose between a foster home or a caring family of a different race, hands down the child should be placed with the caring family.

We already have interracial adoptions from overseas countries, and for the most part there are no issues, otherwise the process would have been discontinued. We also have interracial marriage, and children in those families are doing fine, so I don't see why interracial adoption would be an issue.

I have issues with any overseas adoptions.....

until every last child in this country has been adopted.... none should be allowed from overseas.

Well Putin, who doesn't want homosexual Americans adopting Russian children, agrees. They now have a ban on adopting their orphans out to Americans.

That wasn't really precipitated by the issue of homosexual adoption, though.

 

[Unkotare]

A somewhat related topic:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/asia/341830-a-surprising-result.html