Affirmative action, helpful or harmful?

[rightwinger]

Whites had a 100 percent quota for almost 200 years, You really need to be quiet.

I live in the present. There has been no "100 percent quota for whites" in over half a century. Why is it that you cannot live in the present too?

We all live in the present and that present is the result of the past. So your excuse is not suitable. The present shows that whites are still practicing discrimination. It also shows that since whites get the majority of opportunities there is no discrimination against whites. I live in reality. Why is it that you can't live in reality too?

Go cry to mommy, AA is the child of phony White Guilt. It let's under qualified people get ahead of qualified people. It's reverse racism.

Affirmative Action was a natural progression of the Civil Rights Act

No colored need apply

 

[Doc1]

Whites had a 100 percent quota for almost 200 years, You really need to be quiet.

I live in the present. There has been no "100 percent quota for whites" in over half a century. Why is it that you cannot live in the present too?

We all live in the present and that present is the result of the past. So your excuse is not suitable. The present shows that whites are still practicing discrimination. It also shows that since whites get the majority of opportunities there is no discrimination against whites. I live in reality. Why is it that you can't live in reality too?

Go cry to mommy, AA is the child of phony White Guilt. It let's under qualified people get ahead of qualified people. It's reverse racism.

Affirmative Action was a natural progression of the Civil Rights Act

No colored need apply

Nope. Reverse racism plain and simple.

 

[Markle]

Affirmative Action was a natural progression of the Civil Rights Act

No colored need apply

Yeah, that was half a century ago. Try to keep up. There was a time when a diamond-shaped sign, with the letters INNA would be in front of factories and other places of employment. "Irish Need Not Apply". Why don't we have quotas for the Irish? Certainly, the Japanese deserve to be included too. After all, weren't the Japanese rounded up and put into concentration camps during World War II?

Oh, right, neither of them was taught, hammered at for years, that they were victims. That's all black leaders, such as the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson have taught their whole lives. How is this helpful to the black community? Being taught by your leaders that you are not worthy and that without the plantation owner's help (government) they surely cannot survive on their own merits, how is that helpful?

 

[IM2]

Whites had a 100 percent quota for almost 200 years, You really need to be quiet.

I live in the present. There has been no "100 percent quota for whites" in over half a century. Why is it that you cannot live in the present too?

We all live in the present and that present is the result of the past. So your excuse is not suitable. The present shows that whites are still practicing discrimination. It also shows that since whites get the majority of opportunities there is no discrimination against whites. I live in reality. Why is it that you can't live in reality too?

Go cry to mommy, AA is the child of phony White Guilt. It let's under qualified people get ahead of qualified people. It's reverse racism.

Affirmative Action was a natural progression of the Civil Rights Act

No colored need apply

Nope. Reverse racism plain and simple.

No such thing as reverse discrimination and AA certainly is not it. The numbers shows this.

 

[IM2]

Affirmative Action was a natural progression of the Civil Rights Act

No colored need apply

Yeah, that was half a century ago. Try to keep up. There was a time when a diamond-shaped sign, with the letters INNA would be in front of factories and other places of employment. "Irish Need Not Apply". Why don't we have quotas for the Irish? Certainly, the Japanese deserve to be included too. After all, weren't the Japanese rounded up and put into concentration camps during World War II?

Oh, right, neither of them was taught, hammered at for years, that they were victims. That's all black leaders, such as the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson have taught their whole lives. How is this helpful to the black community? Being taught by your leaders that you are not worthy and that without the plantation owner's help (government) they surely cannot survive on their own merits, how is that helpful?

And racial discrimination still goes on today and not against whites. There are no qoutas, Japanese are included and Irish are white. When we examine all the evidence the people who are being told they are victims are whites.

 

[IM2]

Whites had a 100 percent quota for almost 200 years, You really need to be quiet.

I live in the present. There has been no "100 percent quota for whites" in over half a century. Why is it that you cannot live in the present too?

We all live in the present and that present is the result of the past. So your excuse is not suitable. The present shows that whites are still practicing discrimination. It also shows that since whites get the majority of opportunities there is no discrimination against whites. I live in reality. Why is it that you can't live in reality too?

Go cry to mommy, AA is the child of phony White Guilt. It let's under qualified people get ahead of qualified people. It's reverse racism.

Has it ever entered your addled brain that there are unqualified whites who are out there now and who got opportunities over better qualified people of color because of laws excluding people of color for almost 200 years?

 

[IM2]

Whites had a 100 percent quota for almost 200 years, You really need to be quiet.

I understand. I present you with undisputable FACTS and they hurt your head. Live with it.

The facts were disputed. Whites had a 100 percent quota for almost 200 years, This is undisputable fact.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Prove it.

The present shows that whites are still practicing discrimination ad I don't have to prove shit to your racist ass because you want spew racism online then claim that racism by whites does not exist.

You wasted too much time writing. All you had to do is reply "I cannot prove it." That that would have sufficed.

Except I can prove it. Bu I don't have to since it's known as a fact. I don't have to prove to you what everyone already knows because you want ro deny it.

Of course, that must be it.

View attachment 185279

All I can say is keep going through life making excuses. Excuses have made so many successful people in our country and in particular, your people.

Hey! If it's not broke, don't fix it........right?

Too bad I'm not making excuses. And worse for you is that I've done better than you in life even as I fought racists like you on the way. If you faced 1/10th of what I had to face, you would have ate a bullet before you turned 30. You're a loser Ray.

I'm a loser? I don't need any program to get ahead in life because I need every advantage to make up for my inadequacies. I don't need to be self-convinced that my failures in life were due to my skin color instead of bad decisions.

If you didn't get a job or a promotion, it must be because you are black and no other reason. After all, most whites are racist, right? They are not looking for the best person for a job, they are looking for the whitest person for the job. That must be it because you are always the best person in any given situation.

You have no idea what struggles I've faced in life. But you are convinced that I didn't because I'm not black. Well guess what? WE ALL FACE STRUGGLES! It's just that we can't use our skin color to justify our failures. When you fail in life, it must be because of skin color because you never need excuses......right?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There was a time when a diamond-shaped sign, with the letters INNA would be in front of factories and other places of employment. "Irish Need Not Apply"

The Irish are still white though (Part 1 of 2)

Race Based Legislation
Northern racism grew directly out of slavery and the ideas used to justify the institution. The concepts of "black" and "white" did not arrive with the first Europeans and Africans, but grew on American soil. During Andrew Jackson's administration, racist ideas took on new meaning. Jackson brought in the "Age of the Common Man." Under his administration, working class people gained rights they had not before possessed, particularly the right to vote. But the only people who benefited were white men. Blacks, Indians, and women were not included.

This was a time when European immigrants were pouring into the North. Many of these people had faced discrimination and hardship in their native countries. But in America they found their rights expanding rapidly. They had entered a country in which they were part of a privileged category called "white."

Classism and ethnic prejudices did exist among white Americans and had a tremendous impact on people's lives. But the bottom line was that for white people in America, no matter how poor or degraded they were, they knew there was a class of people below them. Poor whites were considered superior to blacks, and to Indians as well, simply by virtue of being white. Because of this, most identified with the rest of the white race and defended the institution of slavery. Working class whites did this even though slavery did not benefit them directly and was in many ways against their best interests.

Before 1800, free African American men had nominal rights of citizenship. In some places they could vote, serve on juries, and work in skilled trades. But as the need to justify slavery grew stronger, and racism started solidifying, free blacks gradually lost the rights that they did have. Through intimidation, changing laws and mob violence, whites claimed racial supremacy, and increasingly denied blacks their citizenship. And in 1857 the Dred Scott decision formally declared that blacks were not citizens of the United States.

In the northeastern states, blacks faced discrimination in many forms. Segregation was rampant, especially in Philadelphia, where African Americans were excluded from concert halls, public transportation, schools, churches, orphanages, and other places. Blacks were also forced out of the skilled professions in which they had been working. And soon after the turn of the century, African American men began to lose the right to vote -- a right that many states had granted following the Revolutionary War. Simultaneously, voting rights were being expanded for whites. New Jersey took the black vote away in 1807; in 1818, Connecticut took it away from black men who had not voted previously; in 1821, New York took away property requirements for white men to vote, but kept them for blacks. This meant that only a tiny percentage of black men could vote in that state. In 1838, Pennsylvania took the vote away entirely. The only states in which black men never lost the right to vote were Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts.

The situation in what was then the northwest region of the country was even worse. In Ohio, the state constitution of 1802 deprived blacks of the right to vote, to hold public office, and to testify against whites in court. Over the next five years, more restrictions were placed on African Americans. They could not live in Ohio without a certificate proving their free status, they had to post a $500 bond "to pay for their support in case of want," and they were prohibited from joining the state militia. In 1831 blacks were excluded from serving on juries and were not allowed admittance to state poorhouses, insane asylums, and other institutions. Fortunately, some of these laws were not stringently enforced, or it would have been virtually impossible for any African American to emigrate to Ohio.

In Illinois there were severe restrictions on free blacks entering the state, and Indiana barred them altogether. Michigan, Iowa, and Wisconsin were no friendlier. Because of this, the black populations of the northwestern states never exceeded 1 percent.

African Americans also faced violence at the hands of white northerners. Individual cases of assault and murder occured throughout the North, as did daily insults and harassment. Between 1820 and 1850, Northern blacks also became the frequent targets of mob violence. Whites looted, tore down, and burned black homes, churches, schools, and meeting halls. They stoned, beat, and sometimes murdered blacks. Philadelphia was the site of the worst and most frequent mob violence. City officials there generally refused to protect African Americans from white mobs and blamed blacks for inciting the violence with their "uppity" behavior.​

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There was a time when a diamond-shaped sign, with the letters INNA would be in front of factories and other places of employment. "Irish Need Not Apply"

The Irish are still white though (Part 2 of 2)

The Black Codes were laws passed by Southern states in 1865 and 1866 in the United States after the American Civil War with the intent and the effect of restricting African Americans' freedom, and of compelling them to work in a labor economy based on low wages or debt. Black Codes were part of a larger pattern of Southern whites trying to suppress the new freedom of emancipated African-American slaves, the freedmen. Black Codes were also enacted by Northern states such as Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and New York prior to the Civil War to ban free blacks from residing in those states.

Since the colonial period, colonies and states had passed laws that discriminated against free Blacks. In the South, these were generally included in "slave codes"; the goal was to reduce influence of free blacks (particularly after slave rebellions) because of their potential influence on slaves. Restrictions included prohibiting them from voting [violation of the 15th Amendment] (although North Carolina allowed this before 1831), bearing arms [violation of the 2nd Amendment], gathering in groups for worship and learning to read and write [violation of the 1st Amendment - religious freedom and freedom of association]. A major purpose of these laws was to preserve slavery.

In the first two years after the Civil War, white-dominated southern legislatures passed Black Codes modeled after the earlier slave codes. They were particularly concerned with controlling movement and labor, as slavery had given way to a free labor system. Although freedmen had been emancipated, their lives were greatly restricted by the Black Codes.

The term Black Codes was given by "negro leaders and the Republican organs", according to historian John S. Reynolds.[1][2][3] The defining feature of the Black Codes was broad vagrancy law, which allowed local authorities to arrest freedpeople for minor infractions and commit them to involuntary labor. This period was the start of the convict lease system, also described as "slavery by another name" by Douglas Blackmon in his 2008 book on this topic.[4]
Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia​

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Saying that EACH PERSON WITH A MASTER'S DEGREE is a STAND-OUT IN THEIR FIELD, is the sign of a narcissistic failure with a master's degree as their only accomplishment.

I have a bachelor's degree, from a private university and have never used the degree. I have been a Realtor for over 40 years and, after the first four years, I have earned more than the vast majority of Ph.D.'s aside from MD's

Well all fields have those at the top, those at the bottom and most in between. People sometimes change their minds about what they want to do with their lives or careers, that doesn't diminish the fact that they pursued and obtained an advanced degree to do whatever they will with it.

And in my opinion, it's the education you received in pursuit of that degree more than the degree itself that matters most. The degree is "just" your badge of accomplishment however it demonstrates that everyone of those not quite 10% achieved something in their life that the other 90% haven't.

 

[IM2]

The present shows that whites are still practicing discrimination ad I don't have to prove shit to your racist ass because you want spew racism online then claim that racism by whites does not exist.

You wasted too much time writing. All you had to do is reply "I cannot prove it." That that would have sufficed.

Except I can prove it. Bu I don't have to since it's known as a fact. I don't have to prove to you what everyone already knows because you want ro deny it.

Of course, that must be it.

View attachment 185279

All I can say is keep going through life making excuses. Excuses have made so many successful people in our country and in particular, your people.

Hey! If it's not broke, don't fix it........right?

Too bad I'm not making excuses. And worse for you is that I've done better than you in life even as I fought racists like you on the way. If you faced 1/10th of what I had to face, you would have ate a bullet before you turned 30. You're a loser Ray.

I'm a loser? I don't need any program to get ahead in life because I need every advantage to make up for my inadequacies. I don't need to be self-convinced that my failures in life were due to my skin color instead of bad decisions.

If you didn't get a job or a promotion, it must be because you are black and no other reason. After all, most whites are racist, right? They are not looking for the best person for a job, they are looking for the whitest person for the job. That must be it because you are always the best person in any given situation.

You have no idea what struggles I've faced in life. But you are convinced that I didn't because I'm not black. Well guess what? WE ALL FACE STRUGGLES! It's just that we can't use our skin color to justify our failures. When you fail in life, it must be because of skin color because you never need excuses......right?

But you did need a program and even more than that you needed to make it so only your kind got the chances.. That what whites like you fail to understand. I don't assume anything. Why you maggot racists seem to think that you know how we think when you can't even think for yourselves, have no cue of reality and then bark a bunch of illogical bullshit that historical fact roundly disputes is pathetic. .

"The Teflon Theory of American History says that anything that took place over 30 years ago is Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on the present. Or not much. Unless it was something good like the light bulb or the Declaration of Independence. Therefore those who make a big deal of the bad stuff in the past, like slavery, are Living in the Past and need to Get Over It.

For example:

Jim Crow laws were overturned by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s. Therefore according to Teflon Theory the Jim Crow period is now Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on how White Americans alive today think and act. None whatsoever. Or not much. So racism is pretty much dead.

Instead of Jim Crow’s effect slowly weakening over time like you would expect, Teflon Theory would have you suppose that it just disappeared like magic one afternoon sometime in the late 1960s. Even though many White Americans alive now were alive back in Jim Crow times. Even though many others were brought up and shaped by those who were alive back then: parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, teachers, writers, film directors, television producers, news editors and so on.

Few sit on a mountain top to come up with their beliefs all on their own. Instead most people pretty much go along with what everyone else already believes with maybe a few twists here and there. Such beliefs come from the past.

So then why is Teflon Theory believed?"

Teflon Theory of History

 

[IM2]

I have a bachelor's degree, from a private university and have never used the degree. I have been a Realtor for over 40 years and, after the first four years, I have earned more than the vast majority of Ph.D.'s aside from MD's

I could have made a boatload of money selling insurance , but I found it to be more satisfying creating programs that help people instead of lying to someone in order to make more money. Life isn't about money and just because you earned more money than someone else doesn't automatically mean you are more successful as a human being. Nor does it mean you are more motivated or work harder.

 

[IM2]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But you did need a program and even more than that you needed to make it so only your kind got the chances.. That what whites like you fail to understand. I don't assume anything. Why you maggot racists seem to think that you know how we think when you can't even think for yourselves, have no cue of reality and then bark a bunch of illogical bullshit that historical fact roundly disputes is pathetic. .

It's obvious you must be a younger person. To think no white was ever discriminated against is just ignorance of our past. To think that all blacks were discriminated against is more of the same.

Whites have discriminated against other whites for many reasons years ago. At times it was nationality. Other times it was because of religion. Physical appearance was a key player for jobs that required strength.

However that was a very small group of people. Most business owners do have a favorite color, and that color is green. The worker that can produce the most of that color is the business owners favorite race or nationality. It's that way today and it was that way 70 years ago.

For instance my handyman is black. I don't use him because of his race, I use him because he knows WTF he's doing and charges reasonable rates. In fact he was just here last week to change a hot water tank. He's a tough guy to get a hold of at times because he has a lot of white customers. But he gets the job done one way or another. None of his customers are held to any quota.

Same goes for my exterminator. I hired him last summer to get rid of a few bees nests. He gave me a great price and guarantee. He had to come out four times to solve the problem and didn't charge me a dime extra. He really lost money on the job. But when I had another problem, he's the first guy I called, and he really made out on the second job.

These black people save me headaches and money. I don't care if they are pink with purple stripes. I support small business no matter who it is because it's what I believe in. I have a small business myself where I need competent labor. This is what it's about with most business people large or small.

"The Teflon Theory of American History says that anything that took place over 30 years ago is Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on the present. Or not much. Unless it was something good like the light bulb or the Declaration of Independence. Therefore those who make a big deal of the bad stuff in the past, like slavery, are Living in the Past and need to Get Over It.

That's exactly it too.

The thing is you only succeed in life if you learn from your mistakes. If you have an excuse for why you made the mistake, you learn nothing. It happens to all of us regardless of race.

For instance let's say you and I are after getting a job. It's a job at a widget factory. If I didn't get the job, then I have to evaluate what "I" did wrong. Maybe not enough experience, maybe a bad reference from a former employer, maybe it was my attitude or the way I answered questions at the interview, maybe it's how I filled out the job application and missed or misread a question. But if there is a way to find out why I wasn't hired, I learned something. I need to find a way to repair that mistake for my next job interview.

If I got the job instead of you, it must be because the color of your skin and that assumption will prohibit you from bettering yourself. You learned nothing. Just rack it up to all whites are racist and go no further.

 

[rightwinger]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

We do not know the rationale for individual hiring actions

However, we do know that overall, more white women are in professional positions and executive positions that were once exclusively held by white males

Credit affirmative action

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

We do not know the rationale for individual hiring actions

However, we do know that overall, more white women are in professional positions and executive positions that were once exclusively held by white males

Credit affirmative action

No, we don't know that. Again, no way to prove it one way or another.

 

[rightwinger]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

We do not know the rationale for individual hiring actions

However, we do know that overall, more white women are in professional positions and executive positions that were once exclusively held by white males

Credit affirmative action

No, we don't know that. Again, no way to prove it one way or another.

Plenty of proof

I have seen a regeneration of the workforce in the 40 years I have worked.
I started in a workforce where almost all the managers and executives were white, male, christians.

Now the workforce and top level positions are open to minorities, women, Asians, gays, handicapped

Thank Affirmative Action

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

We do not know the rationale for individual hiring actions

However, we do know that overall, more white women are in professional positions and executive positions that were once exclusively held by white males

Credit affirmative action

No, we don't know that. Again, no way to prove it one way or another.

Plenty of proof

I have seen a regeneration of the workforce in the 40 years I have worked.
I started in a workforce where almost all the managers and executives were white, male, christians.

Now the workforce and top level positions are open to minorities, women, Asians, gays, handicapped

Thank Affirmative Action

They were always open to those people, however back in the day, most women were housewives with children and minorities didn't have the education to get those jobs. They worked in blue-collar labor like most other white people.

Businesses don't avoid hiring people because of their race or gender. If they avoid hiring people, it's because of the circumstance that comes with them.

For instance years ago I worked for a company owned by a Jewish guy. He avoided hiring young females for the office. He preferred older women. Why? Because of insurance costs. Delivering a baby was always expensive and medical care thereafter a cost as well, so he liked to hire older women who's children were in their teen years or adults themselves. He had nothing against having an office of young attractive females. It's just that he didn't want the expense and girls calling off all the time because of their children's illness or trouble in school, or otherwise decide to quit the job to be a full-time mother.