Affirmative action, helpful or harmful?

[BS Filter]

Do

I don't care. You need to understand all this shit you and those like you talk ignore the truth of how whites gave themselves preferences and advantages by law for a minimum of 188 years. You cannot fix the damage of these 188 years in 53 especially when those rules made to address the problem have not been followed.

So what does that have to do with the present? Your solution of punishing innocent people for past wrongs just because their skin is lighter than someone else's is just as racist as people in the past punishing black people. You're a racist.

It has everything to do with the present. Whites aren't excluded by this policy but you don't know what the policy entails. You are another dumb ass white person buying into the race baited narrative that AA discriminates against whites when it doesn't.

Whites aren't excluded???? What a crock of doublespeak. If a white is more qualified than the person with darker skin, tell me who gets the position.

Whites aren't excluded. Has your white ass ever thought about the possibility that there is such a thing as an unqualified white? Have you ever fucking wondered just how long unqualified whites have been given everything only because they are white?

No, and that's the crux of the problem. To people that have an agenda such as white nationalism, there is no such thing as an unqualified white when the comparison is to a minority.

The vast majority of the people being hurt by AA aren't white nationalists. You defend a racist policy.

 

[BS Filter]

Lots of people are educated with Masters degrees and more

Less than 10% of the American population of more than 300,000,000 people has earned a Master's degree. When you adjust the numbers for women and specifically black women, the number reduces exponentially. That's not "lots of people", each one of them is a stand-out in his or her particular field.

Degrees mean nothing to me on the internet. I'm a nuclear scientist and can cure cancer.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

The insanity of Affirmative Action is that the very people who have been historically oppressed by policy for so long, still look to policy for a solution. Especially as it regards government, if anyone should understand how law can be leveraged against common people and sanctify immorality in the public consciousness, it's those who have been privy to that phenomenon first hand. And yet, what do they do? Beg to their oppressors to change their policy. The message is always "Please master, don't whip us harder than the others" but never "You are not our master. We won't be whipped at all." The big goal is "slavery light". Every American needs to refresh their memory of an outspoken young man named Malcolm, just for an attitude adjustment. But even he didn't go far enough...

Their "policy" is always the same: domination. Does Affirmative Action call for an end to domination? No. It calls for that domination to be redirected. Take self-responsibility and refuse to participate in domination against anyone, even if you stand to benefit from it personally. Stop looking for relief by having the whip turned on others.

 

[dblack]

I'm more concerned with the broader impact of the precedent set by AA. The entire concept of protected classes actually undermine equal rights, and further establishes government as the vehicle for promoting one's goals for society.

 

[ATL]

I'm more concerned with the broader impact of the precedent set by AA. The entire concept of protected classes actually undermine equal rights, and further establishes government as the vehicle for promoting one's goals for society.

How does protected classes undermine equal rights? Race as a protected class, doesn't mean black only, brown only, or white only, it says race. Just because the majority of the country is white, and a good portion show racist tendencies, in which there are more instances of where a minority is discriminated against, doesn't mean minorities are the only protected class, or that it is unequal.

 

[BS Filter]

I'm more concerned with the broader impact of the precedent set by AA. The entire concept of protected classes actually undermine equal rights, and further establishes government as the vehicle for promoting one's goals for society.

How does protected classes undermine equal rights? Race as a protected class, doesn't mean black only, brown only, or white only, it says race. Just because the majority of the country is white, and a good portion show racist tendencies, in which there are more instances of where a minority is discriminated against, doesn't mean minorities are the only protected class, or that it is unequal.

The lie in your post.....a good portion of white people in America show racist tendencies. Shame on you, race baiter.

 

[dblack]

I'm more concerned with the broader impact of the precedent set by AA. The entire concept of protected classes actually undermine equal rights, and further establishes government as the vehicle for promoting one's goals for society.

How does protected classes undermine equal rights? Race as a protected class, doesn't mean black only, brown only, or white only, it says race. Just because the majority of the country is white, and a good portion show racist tendencies, in which there are more instances of where a minority is discriminated against, doesn't mean minorities are the only protected class, or that it is unequal.

Agreed, technically. I understand the legal concept of protected classes - namely that the classes in questions aren't classes of people, but rather classes of prohibited reasons for discrimination (that's actually worse, though perhaps best left to another discussion). The thing is, in practice, that's not how it works. And that's not how its perceived by most people, on both sides of the debate. Most people recognize AA and protected classes as a means of granting special privileges to minorities that have suffered from discrimination in the past. A kind of reparations.

The problem with this approach is that it changes the role of government. Rather than depending on government to be an impartial referee, with the primary responsibility of protecting individual rights, we are learning to use to government as general tool to get what we want out of society. Whether it's minorities lobbying for respect, or corporations lobbying for profits, special interest groups have come to see government as a legitimate means of forcing society to bend to their will. In the case of racism, particularly racism with the legacy of legal slavery, it's hard to see it as a bad thing. It's when the concept is sublimated by society as a whole that the real damage happens.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

The lie in your post.....a good portion of white people in America show racist tendencies. Shame on you, race baiter.

No American has pure views on race. We have all been influenced by the reverberations of history present in our culture. If 10 people of various races were born in a jungle and somehow made to grow into adulthood without the influence of culture, they would likely view race as no more significant than eye color. We were not given this opportunity, and so we all carry certain ideas that are not wholly our own, and they can only be partially overcome by a recognition of their existence and an act of concerted will.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm more concerned with the broader impact of the precedent set by AA. The entire concept of protected classes actually undermine equal rights, and further establishes government as the vehicle for promoting one's goals for society.

AA protected those who had been historically discriminated against.
So today....not all top positions are reserved for white, male, Christians

 

[ATL]

I'm more concerned with the broader impact of the precedent set by AA. The entire concept of protected classes actually undermine equal rights, and further establishes government as the vehicle for promoting one's goals for society.

How does protected classes undermine equal rights? Race as a protected class, doesn't mean black only, brown only, or white only, it says race. Just because the majority of the country is white, and a good portion show racist tendencies, in which there are more instances of where a minority is discriminated against, doesn't mean minorities are the only protected class, or that it is unequal.

The lie in your post.....a good portion of white people in America show racist tendencies. Shame on you, race baiter.

The truth can't be racist, isn't that what many on the right says whenever the topic of race and IQ comes up? So why do you think it is racist to show the racism that is prevalent in society today? You see, the conservative ideology is based upon white nationalism/supremacy, which is what allowed things like slavery, the civil war, and Jim Crow to be part of our history. And, since conservatism makes up a good portion of the country, why do you think my comment was a lie?

 

[TheDude]

Interesting. Meanwhile, leftist ideology is doing their best to erase traditional values.

Our history of racism is “traditional values “?

I've come to the conclusion anytime a liberal raises the race issue it's code for they cannot defend themselves rationally.

 

[ATL]

I'm more concerned with the broader impact of the precedent set by AA. The entire concept of protected classes actually undermine equal rights, and further establishes government as the vehicle for promoting one's goals for society.

How does protected classes undermine equal rights? Race as a protected class, doesn't mean black only, brown only, or white only, it says race. Just because the majority of the country is white, and a good portion show racist tendencies, in which there are more instances of where a minority is discriminated against, doesn't mean minorities are the only protected class, or that it is unequal.

Agreed, technically. I understand the legal concept of protected classes - namely that the classes in questions aren't classes of people, but rather classes of prohibited reasons for discrimination (that's actually worse, though perhaps best left to another discussion). The thing is, in practice, that's not how it works. And that's not how its perceived by most people, on both sides of the debate. Most people recognize AA and protected classes as a means of granting special privileges to minorities that have suffered from discrimination in the past. A kind of reparations.

The problem with this approach is that it changes the role of government. Rather than depending on government to be an impartial referee, with the primary responsibility of protecting individual rights, we are learning to use to government as general tool to get what we want out of society. Whether it's minorities lobbying for respect, or corporations lobbying for profits, special interest groups have come to see government as a legitimate means of forcing society to bend to their will. In the case of racism, particularly racism with the legacy of legal slavery, it's hard to see it as a bad thing. It's when the concept is sublimated by society as a whole that the real damage happens.

Then the real problem is educating the people that misconstrue what AA is established to do, and not play into what those with white nationalist agendas want you to believe. The very mention of "reparations" is in error, because if that was the case, there would be no reason for white women to benefit from the policy, which in fact they have benefited more from the policy than blacks. I disagree that this changes the role of government, because they have the duty to make sure all citizens are treated equally.

You know, I have a hard time taking anyone that complains about AA seriously, especially when I never seem to see them care about legacy student policies, which is nothing more than AA for rich white males....

 

[dblack]

I disagree that this changes the role of government, because they have the duty to make sure all citizens are treated equally.

I couldn't disagree more. The duty of government is to ensure that law treats everyone equally, not that we all treat each other equally.

You know, I have a hard time taking anyone that complains about AA seriously, especially when I never seem to see them care about legacy student policies, which is nothing more than AA for rich white males....

I understand. In a democracy, defending civli liberties almost always puts one in a position of defending unpopular minorities.

 

[ATL]

I couldn't disagree more. The duty of government is to ensure that law treats everyone equally, not that we all treat each other equally.

Wait, you are thinking that I am speaking about anything other than the law? Where are you having the disconnect? I don't care what a private citizen does or says, but when it comes to ensuring equality before the law, that is what the government is supposed to protect.

I understand. In a democracy, defending civli liberties almost always puts one in a position of defending unpopular minorities.

Case in point...whites are the minority in SA, apartheid was established for decades that oppressed blacks whom, were the majority. I don't remember any of the people speaking out about the atrocities of what the government is doing now to the minority white in SA, saying or caring one bit about what was happening to blacks during the apartheid. They have welfare and government programs for the minorities in SA, in which I haven't seen any conservative here care about, nor say things like, "it's like reparations", but welfare and government programs here for minorities are universally condemned by conservatives. Please don't try to say "it's because that's a different country" or anything to that effect, because the same conservatives really care about how the white minority is treated there now...

 

[Doc1]

I couldn't disagree more. The duty of government is to ensure that law treats everyone equally, not that we all treat each other equally.

Wait, you are thinking that I am speaking about anything other than the law? Where are you having the disconnect? I don't care what a private citizen does or says, but when it comes to ensuring equality before the law, that is what the government is supposed to protect.

I understand. In a democracy, defending civli liberties almost always puts one in a position of defending unpopular minorities.

Case in point...whites are the minority in SA, apartheid was established for decades that oppressed blacks whom, were the majority. I don't remember any of the people speaking out about the atrocities of what the government is doing now to the minority white in SA, saying or caring one bit about what was happening to blacks during the apartheid. They have welfare and government programs for the minorities in SA, in which I haven't seen any conservative here care about, nor say things like, "it's like reparations", but welfare and government programs here for minorities are universally condemned by conservatives. Please don't try to say "it's because that's a different country" or anything to that effect, because the same conservatives really care about how the white minority is treated there now...

That's because you are an ignorant racist black man who only frequents sites that tell you what you want to hear. Nobody of any consequence condoned apartheid.

 

[ATL]

I couldn't disagree more. The duty of government is to ensure that law treats everyone equally, not that we all treat each other equally.

Wait, you are thinking that I am speaking about anything other than the law? Where are you having the disconnect? I don't care what a private citizen does or says, but when it comes to ensuring equality before the law, that is what the government is supposed to protect.

I understand. In a democracy, defending civli liberties almost always puts one in a position of defending unpopular minorities.

Case in point...whites are the minority in SA, apartheid was established for decades that oppressed blacks whom, were the majority. I don't remember any of the people speaking out about the atrocities of what the government is doing now to the minority white in SA, saying or caring one bit about what was happening to blacks during the apartheid. They have welfare and government programs for the minorities in SA, in which I haven't seen any conservative here care about, nor say things like, "it's like reparations", but welfare and government programs here for minorities are universally condemned by conservatives. Please don't try to say "it's because that's a different country" or anything to that effect, because the same conservatives really care about how the white minority is treated there now...

That's because you are an ignorant racist black man who only frequents sites that tell you what you want to hear. Nobody of any consequence condoned apartheid.

Ignorant racist black man? Wow, I must update my Instagram profile then.

Let me know when you are able to respond to what is written and not what you want to imagine.

 

[dblack]

Wait, you are thinking that I am speaking about anything other than the law? Where are you having the disconnect? I don't care what a private citizen does or says, but when it comes to ensuring equality before the law, that is what the government is supposed to protect.

I was responding to:

"... I disagree that this changes the role of government, because they have the duty to make sure all citizens are treated equally."

We were talking about anti-discrimination law. I assumed that's what you were referring to. No?

I understand. In a democracy, defending civli liberties almost always puts one in a position of defending unpopular minorities.

Case in point...whites are the minority in SA, apartheid was established for decades that oppressed blacks whom, were the majority. I don't remember any of the people speaking out about the atrocities of what the government is doing now to the minority white in SA, saying or caring one bit about what was happening to blacks during the apartheid. They have welfare and government programs for the minorities in SA, in which I haven't seen any conservative here care about, nor say things like, "it's like reparations", but welfare and government programs here for minorities are universally condemned by conservatives. Please don't try to say "it's because that's a different country" or anything to that effect, because the same conservatives really care about how the white minority is treated there now...

Yes, I get your point. Many of the people I'm defending don't give a shit about anyone's rights, other than their own. That's if they even understand the concept of individual rights in the first place. None of this has any bearing on the merits of AA or current civil rights law.

 

[Timmy]

Interesting. Meanwhile, leftist ideology is doing their best to erase traditional values.

Our history of racism is “traditional values “?

I've come to the conclusion anytime a liberal raises the race issue it's code for they cannot defend themselves rationally.

This thread , that I did not start, is based on race issue .

 

[Markle]

Would you like for me to start off with the 3/5ths compromise and go on from there?

As you know, the 3/5th's compromise came about because of the Northern states refused to count any slave as a person. So the SOUTH wanted to give blacks all the same rights as a white person but the NORTHERN states insisted on demeaning them and saw them less than a person.

Got it!

 

[Markle]

Less than 10% of the American population of more than 300,000,000 people has earned a Master's degree. When you adjust the numbers for women and specifically black women, the number reduces exponentially. That's not "lots of people", each one of them is a stand-out in his or her particular field.

OH, not true, not true. Millions of people with a master's degree are not even working in their field. I live in a college town and every single person I meet with a master's degree wish they had a Ph.D. Many of those with a Ph.D. doesn't have the common sense the good lord gave them on the day they were born.

I have a bachelor's degree, from a private university and have never used the degree. I have been a Realtor for over 40 years and, after the first four years, I have earned more than the vast majority of Ph.D.'s aside from MD's.

Saying that EACH PERSON WITH A MASTER'S DEGREE is a STAND-OUT IN THEIR FIELD, is the sign of a narcissistic failure with a master's degree as their only accomplishment.