Affirmative action, helpful or harmful?

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

So how is Ben Carson qualified to be the head of HUD? The guy is a retired brain surgeon for crying out loud.

How many of Trump's appointees are actually qualified to do the job? Better yet let's back up and start at the top with Trump.

 

[BS Filter]

AA is very harmful and racist. It's harmful in that it takes away motivation and the struggle to succeed that everyone should go through in life to build character and integrity. Another liberal failure.

Wrong. Before you post again, go study American history.

Yet, you can't explain why I'm wrong. I lived American history .

It's really something a sane person shouldn't need explained. From 1776 until 1965 by law whites were given every opportunity based only upon skin color by written law. AA does not discriminate unless you think whites deserve every job, every admission or every contract.

It's just as racist to prefer black people for positions as it is whites. You don't get it. If you qualify, great. If not, too bad, regardless of skin color. Otherwise, you're no better than your fellow racists of yesterday.

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet.

You don't even know me. What color is my skin?

 

[JoeMoma]

If the power of Congress is granted by the people, then this implies the people have this power to grant. Who among us may claim such power? Do you claim the power to personally tax your neighbor? To personally write laws which he must obey? If you don't have this power, and neither do any of "the people", how can they delegate this power to someone else? I presume you would not accept me delegating the right to take your car to my brother, on the grounds that I do not have that right to begin with. It is invalid to delegate a right you don't have in the first place, is it not?

I do not see any valid center from which such power could spring, unless God came down from the heavens and asserted it. Man does not have the ability to invent non-existent rights. He may delegate rights he already has, but he cannot validly create new ones, no matter how many people agree to it.

The people vote for a representative to carry out their will in Congress.

This 100% absolutely does not address the point raised - the delegation of rights to representatives by voters who themselves are not in possession of such rights.

The people hold all power. I have my vote. No one takes office without being chosen by the people.

So you think pulling a lever every 2-4 years means you have ALL the power, while those politicians are merely servants of your will? Strange then, that the master should be subject to the servant's dictates in all matters, public and private, and that the servant should have legions of enforcers who can pretty much do whatever they want to you, the master; your only recourse being to try them in a court funded by the same institution as the enforcer. Strange that you, with all power, after pulling your level, have absolutely NO say in what laws you and your children will be subject to, NO claim over what percentage of your income will be torn from you under threat of violence, NO say in how that money will be allocated, and NO ability to do anything about it until the next time your big lever-pulling ceremony comes back around.

Your idea of holding all power is being "allowed" to choose which dominator holds the whip? Good Lord, the indoctrination runs deep, as without it, who in their right mind would perceive this as power? Consider the deplorable self-loathing nature of this perspective. You are born equal to all other human beings, you have inherent autonomy and self-ownership - stand up and act like it goddam it! This slave talk makes me sick to my stomach.

*Ahem*

Please take this in the spirit it is offered - as an advocacy of you as an individual worthy of respect, liberty, justice, and appreciation.

I think you're a fruit loop.

I eat fruit loops for breakfast!

 

[IM2]

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet. This is another example of the psychosis prevalent in part of the white community.

Well if we were at Walmart and I backed into your car causing severe damage, the resolution is not for you to back into mine.

When white people were discriminating against blacks years ago, they were doing just that..... discriminating against black PEOPLE OF THAT TIME! But that time is over--long over. They didn't discriminate against most people of today.

As for the people still alive today that faced legal discrimination, how does AA help them? It doesn't. What's done is done and can't be reversed.

But you still benefit today . Generation after generation hooked each other up . Still happens today .

How many people get jobs based on who they know .

Probably not many. I don't benefit today. When I got out of high school, I applied for a job and I got one. It's something any black or any person of race could have done.

As for myself and any of my friends or family, if we inherit anything from our parents, we will be the first generation to do so. Being white doesn't mean you were born rich. Most whites in the generations before mine didn't have much money. I know my parents didn't. My father could tell you stories about when he grew up that would make you cry.

The problem in the black community is not what happened before AA, the problem in the black community is Democrats brainwashed them into believing in excuses.

No that's not the problem in the black community. You've never been black. Just shut up.

I don't have to be black to see what's in front of me.

As I explained earlier, foreigners come to this country with five bucks in their pockets and barely knowing the language. With hard work and determination, they are many times more successful than native born Americans. Talk to them sometime. Let them tell you what REAL oppression and poverty is like. Yet in spite of their horrible past, they put it behind them and move forward instead of looking backwards the rest of their lives.

You can't get ahead in life by dwelling on the past because the past is something you cannot change. You move ahead in life by looking forward and learning from the past. If you are a failure in life, it's not because of something that happened to your grandfather, grandmother or great grandparents. You are a failure because you failed.

Yes you do have to be black in order to make the comments you are making. For what you see and reality are not the same thing. So Ray do us all a favor and shut the hell up. I don't have to listen to stories of immigrants who are white and did not face legalized discrimination tell me shit. You are a racist now in 2018. We aren't talking about the past.

 

[JoeMoma]

I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been moved to the race relations forum yet.

 

[BS Filter]

Well if we were at Walmart and I backed into your car causing severe damage, the resolution is not for you to back into mine.

When white people were discriminating against blacks years ago, they were doing just that..... discriminating against black PEOPLE OF THAT TIME! But that time is over--long over. They didn't discriminate against most people of today.

As for the people still alive today that faced legal discrimination, how does AA help them? It doesn't. What's done is done and can't be reversed.

But you still benefit today . Generation after generation hooked each other up . Still happens today .

How many people get jobs based on who they know .

Probably not many. I don't benefit today. When I got out of high school, I applied for a job and I got one. It's something any black or any person of race could have done.

As for myself and any of my friends or family, if we inherit anything from our parents, we will be the first generation to do so. Being white doesn't mean you were born rich. Most whites in the generations before mine didn't have much money. I know my parents didn't. My father could tell you stories about when he grew up that would make you cry.

The problem in the black community is not what happened before AA, the problem in the black community is Democrats brainwashed them into believing in excuses.

No that's not the problem in the black community. You've never been black. Just shut up.

I don't have to be black to see what's in front of me.

As I explained earlier, foreigners come to this country with five bucks in their pockets and barely knowing the language. With hard work and determination, they are many times more successful than native born Americans. Talk to them sometime. Let them tell you what REAL oppression and poverty is like. Yet in spite of their horrible past, they put it behind them and move forward instead of looking backwards the rest of their lives.

You can't get ahead in life by dwelling on the past because the past is something you cannot change. You move ahead in life by looking forward and learning from the past. If you are a failure in life, it's not because of something that happened to your grandfather, grandmother or great grandparents. You are a failure because you failed.

Yes you do have to be black in order to make the comments you are making. For what you see and reality are not the same thing. So Ray do us all a favor and shut the hell up. I don't have to listen to stories of immigrants who are white and did not face legalized discrimination tell me shit. You are a racist now in 2018. We aren't talking about the past.

You pitiful ignorant racist twit. Shame on you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well if we were at Walmart and I backed into your car causing severe damage, the resolution is not for you to back into mine.

When white people were discriminating against blacks years ago, they were doing just that..... discriminating against black PEOPLE OF THAT TIME! But that time is over--long over. They didn't discriminate against most people of today.

As for the people still alive today that faced legal discrimination, how does AA help them? It doesn't. What's done is done and can't be reversed.

But you still benefit today . Generation after generation hooked each other up . Still happens today .

How many people get jobs based on who they know .

Probably not many. I don't benefit today. When I got out of high school, I applied for a job and I got one. It's something any black or any person of race could have done.

As for myself and any of my friends or family, if we inherit anything from our parents, we will be the first generation to do so. Being white doesn't mean you were born rich. Most whites in the generations before mine didn't have much money. I know my parents didn't. My father could tell you stories about when he grew up that would make you cry.

The problem in the black community is not what happened before AA, the problem in the black community is Democrats brainwashed them into believing in excuses.

No that's not the problem in the black community. You've never been black. Just shut up.

I don't have to be black to see what's in front of me.

As I explained earlier, foreigners come to this country with five bucks in their pockets and barely knowing the language. With hard work and determination, they are many times more successful than native born Americans. Talk to them sometime. Let them tell you what REAL oppression and poverty is like. Yet in spite of their horrible past, they put it behind them and move forward instead of looking backwards the rest of their lives.

You can't get ahead in life by dwelling on the past because the past is something you cannot change. You move ahead in life by looking forward and learning from the past. If you are a failure in life, it's not because of something that happened to your grandfather, grandmother or great grandparents. You are a failure because you failed.

Yes you do have to be black in order to make the comments you are making. For what you see and reality are not the same thing. So Ray do us all a favor and shut the hell up. I don't have to listen to stories of immigrants who are white and did not face legalized discrimination tell me shit. You are a racist now in 2018. We aren't talking about the past.

Don't tell me to shut up. This is a public forum. If you want a private discussion, USMB allows you to do that and create a list of allowable members.

And actually, the foreigners I speak of are not white. Most of them are from the middle-east.

You sit there telling me not to be critical about blacks, yet you are criticizing what whites should think, feel, and how to respond.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been moved to the race relations forum yet.

I never knew there was one.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So how is Ben Carson qualified to be the head of HUD? The guy is a retired brain surgeon for crying out loud.

How many of Trump's appointees are actually qualified to do the job? Better yet let's back up and start at the top with Trump.

Guess that point flew right over your head............

 

[IM2]

Wrong. Before you post again, go study American history.

Yet, you can't explain why I'm wrong. I lived American history .

It's really something a sane person shouldn't need explained. From 1776 until 1965 by law whites were given every opportunity based only upon skin color by written law. AA does not discriminate unless you think whites deserve every job, every admission or every contract.

It's just as racist to prefer black people for positions as it is whites. You don't get it. If you qualify, great. If not, too bad, regardless of skin color. Otherwise, you're no better than your fellow racists of yesterday.

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet.

You don't even know me. What color is my skin?

I don't care. You need to understand all this shit you and those like you talk ignore the truth of how whites gave themselves preferences and advantages by law for a minimum of 188 years. You cannot fix the damage of these 188 years in 53 especially when those rules made to address the problem have not been followed.

 

[IM2]

WE have AA to try to equalize the institutionalized racism (aka white affirmative action ) in this country .

Want an example ? Just look at President Trump! Hiring his white freinds and family .

Is there one of you that would even dare to say Jared Kushner is the most qualified for his position? This is the stuff that happens at all levels of employment .

So how is Ben Carson qualified to be the head of HUD? The guy is a retired brain surgeon for crying out loud.

Ask Donald Trump whose racism made him think that just because Carson is black he should head HUD.

 

[JoeMoma]

WE have AA to try to equalize the institutionalized racism (aka white affirmative action ) in this country .

Want an example ? Just look at President Trump! Hiring his white freinds and family .

Is there one of you that would even dare to say Jared Kushner is the most qualified for his position? This is the stuff that happens at all levels of employment .

So how is Ben Carson qualified to be the head of HUD? The guy is a retired brain surgeon for crying out loud.

Ask Donald Trump whose racism made him think that just because Carson is black he should head HUD.

Have you been reading Trump’s diary?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet. This is another example of the psychosis prevalent in part of the white community.

Well if we were at Walmart and I backed into your car causing severe damage, the resolution is not for you to back into mine.

When white people were discriminating against blacks years ago, they were doing just that..... discriminating against black PEOPLE OF THAT TIME! But that time is over--long over. They didn't discriminate against most people of today.

As for the people still alive today that faced legal discrimination, how does AA help them? It doesn't. What's done is done and can't be reversed.

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet. This is another example of the psychosis prevalent in part of the white community. You are a racist Ray, you practice discrimination by race, so you can drop the bullshit and recognize that as long as whites like you exist the policy needs to stay in place.

Yeah I'm racist because I disagree with you. There is a difference between "racist" and "realist."

AA is reverse discrimination. It's unconstitutional and it's only keeping separation and racism alive and well.

There is no such thing as reverse discrimination. You are a racist because you express a racist point of view. You aren't a realist or you would understand that whaever you call affimatve actii whites go from 1776 until at least 1965 by written law and it is because of that affirmative action was ordered by President Johnson. In the same way, if you were a realist you understand that since racists do exist that people are still denied due to race which means as long as racists exist, the policy needs to exist.

We have laws to protect you or anybody else from that. If you can prove racism (a term you obviously don't know the definition of) you are able to get compensation.

You can't have a job because you are black. Racism.
You can't have a job because you are white. Not racism.

Since you don't like truth coming from a white person, perhaps when it comes from a black, you'll actually listen. From my favorite economist, Dr. Walter E Williams discussing the real problems with the black community.

If we put ourselves into the shoes of racists who seek to sabotage black upward mobility, we couldn't develop a more effective agenda than that followed by civil rights organizations, black politicians, academics, liberals and the news media. Let's look at it.

First, weaken the black family, but don't blame it on individual choices. You have to preach that today's weak black family is a legacy of slavery, Jim Crow and racism. The truth is that black female-headed households were just 18 percent of households in 1950, as opposed to about 68 percent today. In fact, from 1890 to 1940, the black marriage rate was slightly higher than that of whites. Even during slavery, when marriage was forbidden for blacks, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In New York City, in 1925, 85 percent of black households were two-parent households. A study of 1880 family structure in Philadelphia shows that three-quarters of black families were two-parent households.

During the 1960s, devastating nonsense emerged, exemplified by a Johns Hopkins University sociology professor who argued, "It has yet to be shown that the absence of a father was directly responsible for any of the supposed deficiencies of broken homes." The real issue, he went on to say, "is not the lack of male presence but the lack of male income." That suggests marriage and fatherhood can be replaced by a welfare check.

Disgustingly, black politicians, civil rights leaders, liberals and the president are talking nonsense about "having a conversation about race." That's beyond useless. Tell me how a conversation with white people is going to stop black predators from preying on blacks. How is such a conversation going to eliminate the 75 percent illegitimacy rate? What will such a conversation do about the breakdown of the black family (though "breakdown" is not the correct word, as the family doesn't form in the first place)? Only black people can solve our problems.

Walter Williams: Black Self-Sabotage

 

[rightwinger]

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet. This is another example of the psychosis prevalent in part of the white community.

Well if we were at Walmart and I backed into your car causing severe damage, the resolution is not for you to back into mine.

When white people were discriminating against blacks years ago, they were doing just that..... discriminating against black PEOPLE OF THAT TIME! But that time is over--long over. They didn't discriminate against most people of today.

As for the people still alive today that faced legal discrimination, how does AA help them? It doesn't. What's done is done and can't be reversed.

Interesting logic

If you benefitted from a tilted playing field for centuries, just declare everything even Steven

The point of affirmative action was to open up opportunities .......it worked

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong. Before you post again, go study American history.

Yet, you can't explain why I'm wrong. I lived American history .

It's really something a sane person shouldn't need explained. From 1776 until 1965 by law whites were given every opportunity based only upon skin color by written law. AA does not discriminate unless you think whites deserve every job, every admission or every contract.

It's just as racist to prefer black people for positions as it is whites. You don't get it. If you qualify, great. If not, too bad, regardless of skin color. Otherwise, you're no better than your fellow racists of yesterday.

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet.

You don't even know me. What color is my skin?

Orange

 

[IM2]

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet. This is another example of the psychosis prevalent in part of the white community.

Well if we were at Walmart and I backed into your car causing severe damage, the resolution is not for you to back into mine.

When white people were discriminating against blacks years ago, they were doing just that..... discriminating against black PEOPLE OF THAT TIME! But that time is over--long over. They didn't discriminate against most people of today.

As for the people still alive today that faced legal discrimination, how does AA help them? It doesn't. What's done is done and can't be reversed.

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet. This is another example of the psychosis prevalent in part of the white community. You are a racist Ray, you practice discrimination by race, so you can drop the bullshit and recognize that as long as whites like you exist the policy needs to stay in place.

Yeah I'm racist because I disagree with you. There is a difference between "racist" and "realist."

AA is reverse discrimination. It's unconstitutional and it's only keeping separation and racism alive and well.

There is no such thing as reverse discrimination. You are a racist because you express a racist point of view. You aren't a realist or you would understand that whaever you call affimatve actii whites go from 1776 until at least 1965 by written law and it is because of that affirmative action was ordered by President Johnson. In the same way, if you were a realist you understand that since racists do exist that people are still denied due to race which means as long as racists exist, the policy needs to exist.

We have laws to protect you or anybody else from that. If you can prove racism (a term you obviously don't know the definition of) you are able to get compensation.

You can't have a job because you are black. Racism.
You can't have a job because you are white. Not racism.

Since you don't like truth coming from a white person, perhaps when it comes from a black, you'll actually listen. From my favorite economist, Dr. Walter E Williams discussing the real problems with the black community.

If we put ourselves into the shoes of racists who seek to sabotage black upward mobility, we couldn't develop a more effective agenda than that followed by civil rights organizations, black politicians, academics, liberals and the news media. Let's look at it.

First, weaken the black family, but don't blame it on individual choices. You have to preach that today's weak black family is a legacy of slavery, Jim Crow and racism. The truth is that black female-headed households were just 18 percent of households in 1950, as opposed to about 68 percent today. In fact, from 1890 to 1940, the black marriage rate was slightly higher than that of whites. Even during slavery, when marriage was forbidden for blacks, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In New York City, in 1925, 85 percent of black households were two-parent households. A study of 1880 family structure in Philadelphia shows that three-quarters of black families were two-parent households.

During the 1960s, devastating nonsense emerged, exemplified by a Johns Hopkins University sociology professor who argued, "It has yet to be shown that the absence of a father was directly responsible for any of the supposed deficiencies of broken homes." The real issue, he went on to say, "is not the lack of male presence but the lack of male income." That suggests marriage and fatherhood can be replaced by a welfare check.

Disgustingly, black politicians, civil rights leaders, liberals and the president are talking nonsense about "having a conversation about race." That's beyond useless. Tell me how a conversation with white people is going to stop black predators from preying on blacks. How is such a conversation going to eliminate the 75 percent illegitimacy rate? What will such a conversation do about the breakdown of the black family (though "breakdown" is not the correct word, as the family doesn't form in the first place)? Only black people can solve our problems.

Walter Williams: Black Self-Sabotage

Walter Williams is an idiot much like Sowell that whites like you fall back on like what they say is gospel. Only black people didn't create the problems. Only blacks cannot solve them if whites remain racists.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

WE have AA to try to equalize the institutionalized racism (aka white affirmative action ) in this country .

Want an example ? Just look at President Trump! Hiring his white freinds and family .

Is there one of you that would even dare to say Jared Kushner is the most qualified for his position? This is the stuff that happens at all levels of employment .

So how is Ben Carson qualified to be the head of HUD? The guy is a retired brain surgeon for crying out loud.

Ask Donald Trump whose racism made him think that just because Carson is black he should head HUD.

Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps race had nothing to do with it?

 

[IM2]

WE have AA to try to equalize the institutionalized racism (aka white affirmative action ) in this country .

Want an example ? Just look at President Trump! Hiring his white freinds and family .

Is there one of you that would even dare to say Jared Kushner is the most qualified for his position? This is the stuff that happens at all levels of employment .

So how is Ben Carson qualified to be the head of HUD? The guy is a retired brain surgeon for crying out loud.

Ask Donald Trump whose racism made him think that just because Carson is black he should head HUD.

Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps race had nothing to do with it?

No because that's not the case.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Guess that point flew right over your head

Not at all. I agree that Carson isn't qualified to head HUD but not because he's black which is why I asked how many of Trump's other appointees are qualified for the jobs with which they were "gifted". In my opinion very few or none of them which brings us back to the biggest example of someone getting a job for which they are not qualified - Trump.

If you're a Trump fan or voted for him, well then you have my condolences.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well if we were at Walmart and I backed into your car causing severe damage, the resolution is not for you to back into mine.

When white people were discriminating against blacks years ago, they were doing just that..... discriminating against black PEOPLE OF THAT TIME! But that time is over--long over. They didn't discriminate against most people of today.

As for the people still alive today that faced legal discrimination, how does AA help them? It doesn't. What's done is done and can't be reversed.

People who have benefitted from exclusionary racist law and policy for almost 400 years should just be quiet. This is another example of the psychosis prevalent in part of the white community. You are a racist Ray, you practice discrimination by race, so you can drop the bullshit and recognize that as long as whites like you exist the policy needs to stay in place.

Yeah I'm racist because I disagree with you. There is a difference between "racist" and "realist."

AA is reverse discrimination. It's unconstitutional and it's only keeping separation and racism alive and well.

There is no such thing as reverse discrimination. You are a racist because you express a racist point of view. You aren't a realist or you would understand that whaever you call affimatve actii whites go from 1776 until at least 1965 by written law and it is because of that affirmative action was ordered by President Johnson. In the same way, if you were a realist you understand that since racists do exist that people are still denied due to race which means as long as racists exist, the policy needs to exist.

We have laws to protect you or anybody else from that. If you can prove racism (a term you obviously don't know the definition of) you are able to get compensation.

You can't have a job because you are black. Racism.
You can't have a job because you are white. Not racism.

Since you don't like truth coming from a white person, perhaps when it comes from a black, you'll actually listen. From my favorite economist, Dr. Walter E Williams discussing the real problems with the black community.

If we put ourselves into the shoes of racists who seek to sabotage black upward mobility, we couldn't develop a more effective agenda than that followed by civil rights organizations, black politicians, academics, liberals and the news media. Let's look at it.

First, weaken the black family, but don't blame it on individual choices. You have to preach that today's weak black family is a legacy of slavery, Jim Crow and racism. The truth is that black female-headed households were just 18 percent of households in 1950, as opposed to about 68 percent today. In fact, from 1890 to 1940, the black marriage rate was slightly higher than that of whites. Even during slavery, when marriage was forbidden for blacks, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In New York City, in 1925, 85 percent of black households were two-parent households. A study of 1880 family structure in Philadelphia shows that three-quarters of black families were two-parent households.

During the 1960s, devastating nonsense emerged, exemplified by a Johns Hopkins University sociology professor who argued, "It has yet to be shown that the absence of a father was directly responsible for any of the supposed deficiencies of broken homes." The real issue, he went on to say, "is not the lack of male presence but the lack of male income." That suggests marriage and fatherhood can be replaced by a welfare check.

Disgustingly, black politicians, civil rights leaders, liberals and the president are talking nonsense about "having a conversation about race." That's beyond useless. Tell me how a conversation with white people is going to stop black predators from preying on blacks. How is such a conversation going to eliminate the 75 percent illegitimacy rate? What will such a conversation do about the breakdown of the black family (though "breakdown" is not the correct word, as the family doesn't form in the first place)? Only black people can solve our problems.

Walter Williams: Black Self-Sabotage

Walter Williams is an idiot much like Sowell that whites like you fall back on like what they say is gospel. Only black people didn't create the problems. Only blacks cannot solve them if whites remain racists.

Correct, how dare we look to well educated successful blacks to opine of the black communities across the country? Maybe we need to listen to more Farrakhan, Jessie Jackson and Maxine Waters.

So let's see, you don't want criticisms from whites, you don't want criticism from successful educated blacks, so who are you looking to for criticism from, anybody that agrees with you?

The blame game is an easy one to play. It doesn't require motivation, it doesn't require guilt or admission of failure. It doesn't require self-criticism or reflection. My (our) problem is X. I know this because the Democrats have told me so.

But you know.....life goes by fast. You are probably in your 20s now, but then 30's, 40's and 50's. Time wasted waiting for somebody to do something for you instead of yourself. At the end of your life, all you'll be able to do is look back finally realize waiting was nothing more than a waste of life. If you want to improve your plight, look to yourself and quit waiting on programs and outsiders to make everything alright for you. Time's a wasting.