Affirmative Action

[ClosedCaption]

I have green grey eyes actually.

AA is not equality, it s governmental inequality to correct a previous wrong. How can it be equality when it screws over one group to help another?

Because previous to the law all other groups were being screwed for ONE.



You said earlier there is no difference between blacks and whites. I'm sure you're extending that to Men and Women too. Fact is that HR depts. see a difference. Studies see the difference, blacks see the difference. YOU don't. That's not a fact, that's your opinion unless we are going to throw studies and research into the same pile you threw MLK after it wasn't convient anymore?

I find it comical that you cannot even admit that this is the case. Typical progressive head in the sand idiot.

Admit what? Dude, I understand how you want it to go back where everyone is free to discrimainate against blacks, women etc etc for white guys. Hell if I was a white guy ID WANT THAT TOO! But the program only exists because people weren't doing right by EVERYONE ELSE. Take the program away with no more than a "trust me" is for fools who don't trust studies, research etc etc

I want to go back to nothing of the sort.

Yes you do. If it goes your way that will be the result whether intentional or not

I am actually what King was looking for all those years ago, I work with and for women, I have women work for me. I have all sorts of minorities work with and for me, and I work for minorities. My girlfriend isnt white. I judge people on results, not on race. What I dont feel like dealing with is being placed at a disadvantage by the government due to sins I had no part in, and crimes to which I have recieved no benefit, nor did i perform or condone. The fact that those who support it basically say I dont even have the RIGHT to be opposed to it, and wont admit that it does place me at a disadvantage is just rubbing salt in the wound.

Sorry dude but the reason you cant do a lot of things is because of the "sins" of people before you. That's why you cant take a barrel over Niagra falls or swim in the Reflecting Pool in DC. NOT FAIR!! someone messed it up for you before...same thing here.

In college there was a grant availible to blacks and women only. At the time my father had been laid off and I could have used it, and applied for it (after the screening it was need/merit based). But I couldnt apply soley because of the color of my skin and my sex.

So How is that supposed to be fair?

BECAUSE EVERY PROGRAM ISNT FOR EVERYONE. Do you want to go to head start? You cant. Do you want to get Food Assistance? You have to QUALIFY! You're pretending that there was NO grants available to whites. Of course you don't want those...you want the shit not for you.

C'mon man...be foreal

 

[ClosedCaption]

Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone

Their successes make the case not for abandoning affirmative action but for continuing it


Read more: Sally Kohn: Affirmative Action Helps White Women More Than Others | TIME.com

While people of color, individually and as groups, have been helped by affirmative action in the subsequent years, data and studies suggest women — white women in particular — have benefited disproportionately. According to one study, in 1995, 6 million women, the majority of whom were white, had jobs they wouldn’t have otherwise held but for affirmative action.

Another study shows that women made greater gains in employment at companies that do business with the federal government, which are therefore subject to federal affirmative-action requirements, than in other companies — with female employment rising 15.2% at federal contractors but only 2.2% elsewhere. And the women working for federal-contractor companies also held higher positions and were paid better.


Read more: Sally Kohn: Affirmative Action Helps White Women More Than Others | TIME.com

What this proves is a number of things:

1. AA doesn't discriminate against whites
2. AA isn't for blacks only
3. AA doesn't "destroy" the black community because the white women community Is just fine
4. You can finally stop pretending Affirmative Action is for blacks only. The 2nd group that benefits the most: Asian

in which terms?
in suicide rates?

The rates In the numbers making green bean casserole

 

[Defiant1]

3. AA doesn't "destroy" the black community because the white women community Is just fine

More white women getting divorces. More single parent white women. More white women on food stamps.

Yep, the white women are doing just fine.

You reap what you sow.

 

[martybegan]

Because previous to the law all other groups were being screwed for ONE.



You said earlier there is no difference between blacks and whites. I'm sure you're extending that to Men and Women too. Fact is that HR depts. see a difference. Studies see the difference, blacks see the difference. YOU don't. That's not a fact, that's your opinion unless we are going to throw studies and research into the same pile you threw MLK after it wasn't convient anymore?



Admit what? Dude, I understand how you want it to go back where everyone is free to discrimainate against blacks, women etc etc for white guys. Hell if I was a white guy ID WANT THAT TOO! But the program only exists because people weren't doing right by EVERYONE ELSE. Take the program away with no more than a "trust me" is for fools who don't trust studies, research etc etc

I want to go back to nothing of the sort.

Yes you do. If it goes your way that will be the result whether intentional or not

I am actually what King was looking for all those years ago, I work with and for women, I have women work for me. I have all sorts of minorities work with and for me, and I work for minorities. My girlfriend isnt white. I judge people on results, not on race. What I dont feel like dealing with is being placed at a disadvantage by the government due to sins I had no part in, and crimes to which I have recieved no benefit, nor did i perform or condone. The fact that those who support it basically say I dont even have the RIGHT to be opposed to it, and wont admit that it does place me at a disadvantage is just rubbing salt in the wound.

Sorry dude but the reason you cant do a lot of things is because of the "sins" of people before you. That's why you cant take a barrel over Niagra falls or swim in the Reflecting Pool in DC. NOT FAIR!! someone messed it up for you before...same thing here.

In college there was a grant availible to blacks and women only. At the time my father had been laid off and I could have used it, and applied for it (after the screening it was need/merit based). But I couldnt apply soley because of the color of my skin and my sex.

So How is that supposed to be fair?

BECAUSE EVERY PROGRAM ISNT FOR EVERYONE. Do you want to go to head start? You cant. Do you want to get Food Assistance? You have to QUALIFY! You're pretending that there was NO grants available to whites. Of course you don't want those...you want the shit not for you.

C'mon man...be foreal

Nice deflection, beacuse you dont have a real answer. I was discriminated against, but because of something that people with my skin color did before I was born, you are OK with that, and Im suppposed to be OK with that.

And I did apply for other grants, however others who could have applied for the black/woman grant could compete against me in that one, and I couldnt compete against them in thiers. again, punished because of my race and sex. Yet that is OK because you think it is OK.

Also, going over a waterfall and not swimming in a pool are not the same as denying someone a chance at Harvard or another top tier school and chaning thier life, simply because they are the wrong skin color or sex.

But keep trying to justify racism because of Tu Quo Que done decades before I was born. THAT is how you lose people like me to the cause of equality.

 

[ClosedCaption]

No I'm not ok with that but stop going after things not for you. And stop whining when you don't qualify for a pap smear or cant work at hooters.

 

[martybegan]

No I'm not ok with that but stop going after things not for you. And stop whining when you don't qualify for a pap smear or cant work at hooters.

Again, not an apt comparison compared to educational opprotunity. Plus those two are not government sanctioned, AA is.

 

[ClosedCaption]

No I'm not ok with that but stop going after things not for you. And stop whining when you don't qualify for a pap smear or cant work at hooters.

Again, not an apt comparison compared to educational opprotunity. Plus those two are not government sanctioned, AA is.

So you want women dropped too or just race? And how will it be fair then? Hopes? Handshakes?

 

[martybegan]

No I'm not ok with that but stop going after things not for you. And stop whining when you don't qualify for a pap smear or cant work at hooters.

Again, not an apt comparison compared to educational opprotunity. Plus those two are not government sanctioned, AA is.

So you want women dropped too or just race? And how will it be fair then? Hopes? Handshakes?

AA should be phased out for any group, period. There is no more institutional racism or sexism mandated by the government remaining, with the exception of the draft and military services (being phased out).

There are plenty of laws on hand to protect people from any racism or sexism after the fact.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Again, not an apt comparison compared to educational opprotunity. Plus those two are not government sanctioned, AA is.

So you want women dropped too or just race? And how will it be fair then? Hopes? Handshakes?

AA should be phased out for any group, period. There is no more institutional racism or sexism mandated by the government remaining, with the exception of the draft and military services (being phased out).

There are plenty of laws on hand to protect people from any racism or sexism after the fact.

The unemployment rates for African Americans by gender, education, and age are much higher today than those of whites, and these unemployment rates for African Americans rose much faster than those for comparable groups of whites during and after the Great Recession. The unemployment rates for many black groups in fact continued to rise during the economic recovery while they started to drop for whites. The first few months of 2011 saw substantial employment gains for African Americans but job growth stalled yet again in the past few months.

Wrong

Expert: Black Unemployment Compounded By White Favoritism During Hiring

Black Unemployment: Expert: Black Unemployment Compounded By White Favoritism During Hiring | Breaking News for Black America

Wrong

Study: Black man and white felon – same chances for hire

Study: Black man and white felon ? same chances for hire ? Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Wrong

According to our research, if change continues at the same slow pace as it has done for the past fifty years, it will take almost another fifty—or until 2056—for women to finally reach pay parity. IWPR’s project on sex and race discrimination in the workplace shows that outright discrimination in pay, hiring, or promotions continues to be a significant feature of working life.

Pay Equity & Discrimination ? IWPR

Wrong

 

[ClosedCaption]

Now once again you're right everything is all good as long as we ignore reality and go on your word, sure! But if we're talk reality then you now need to dismiss every study, research, etc that exists for your opinion to be correct. you can always throw them in the garbage with the MLK quote you trotted out

 

[martybegan]

So you want women dropped too or just race? And how will it be fair then? Hopes? Handshakes?

AA should be phased out for any group, period. There is no more institutional racism or sexism mandated by the government remaining, with the exception of the draft and military services (being phased out).

There are plenty of laws on hand to protect people from any racism or sexism after the fact.

Wrong


Black Unemployment: Expert: Black Unemployment Compounded By White Favoritism During Hiring | Breaking News for Black America

Wrong

Study: Black man and white felon – same chances for hire

Study: Black man and white felon ? same chances for hire ? Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Wrong

According to our research, if change continues at the same slow pace as it has done for the past fifty years, it will take almost another fifty—or until 2056—for women to finally reach pay parity. IWPR’s project on sex and race discrimination in the workplace shows that outright discrimination in pay, hiring, or promotions continues to be a significant feature of working life.

Pay Equity & Discrimination ? IWPR

Wrong

AA doesnt really address jobs at the low end of the scale, it is primarily for jobs at the higher end, and educational opportunities at the higher end, so your comparison if fail to start with.

 

[ClosedCaption]

AA should be phased out for any group, period. There is no more institutional racism or sexism mandated by the government remaining, with the exception of the draft and military services (being phased out).

There are plenty of laws on hand to protect people from any racism or sexism after the fact.

Wrong


Black Unemployment: Expert: Black Unemployment Compounded By White Favoritism During Hiring | Breaking News for Black America

Wrong


Study: Black man and white felon ? same chances for hire ? Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Wrong

According to our research, if change continues at the same slow pace as it has done for the past fifty years, it will take almost another fifty—or until 2056—for women to finally reach pay parity. IWPR’s project on sex and race discrimination in the workplace shows that outright discrimination in pay, hiring, or promotions continues to be a significant feature of working life.

Pay Equity & Discrimination ? IWPR

Wrong

AA doesnt really address jobs at the low end of the scale, it is primarily for jobs at the higher end, and educational opportunities at the higher end, so your comparison if fail to start with.

This is what you said:

There is no more institutional racism or sexism mandated by the government remaining

You are wrong. Now you're abandoning that point too? Whats the new one I can destroy?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

News flash to all blacks - THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY to hold you back. Whites do a lot to help you and your failure is your own fault.

If you want to see a racial conspiracy, go to africa where whites are persecuted far worse than blacks in america were 100 years ago Just read today that zimbabwe is gonna open a blacks-only stock exchange!

 

[martybegan]

Wrong


Black Unemployment: Expert: Black Unemployment Compounded By White Favoritism During Hiring | Breaking News for Black America

Wrong


Study: Black man and white felon ? same chances for hire ? Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Wrong



Pay Equity & Discrimination ? IWPR

Wrong

AA doesnt really address jobs at the low end of the scale, it is primarily for jobs at the higher end, and educational opportunities at the higher end, so your comparison if fail to start with.

This is what you said:

There is no more institutional racism or sexism mandated by the government remaining

You are wrong. Now you're abandoning that point too? Whats the new one I can destroy?

Nope. Where is the codified instituionalized racism that AA was originally designed to combat? Its gone. You have to go to the dreg level of employment to get your numbers, when the discussion is about the upper levels of employment. Again, avoiding the crux of the argument.

 

[martybegan]

Now once again you're right everything is all good as long as we ignore reality and go on your word, sure! But if we're talk reality then you now need to dismiss every study, research, etc that exists for your opinion to be correct. you can always throw them in the garbage with the MLK quote you trotted out

The quote function, learn it, love it, so we can determine who you are replying to with your inane twaddle.

 

[ClosedCaption]

AA doesnt really address jobs at the low end of the scale, it is primarily for jobs at the higher end, and educational opportunities at the higher end, so your comparison if fail to start with.

This is what you said:

There is no more institutional racism or sexism mandated by the government remaining

You are wrong. Now you're abandoning that point too? Whats the new one I can destroy?

Nope. Where is the codified instituionalized racism that AA was originally designed to combat? Its gone. You have to go to the dreg level of employment to get your numbers, when the discussion is about the upper levels of employment. Again, avoiding the crux of the argument.

Its not unless you ignore information for what you believe. This discussion is not about upper, lower, middle employement its about AA. Since you were wrong and I showed you there is a wage and employment gap now you're onto something new.

BTW I didn't have to use the quote button, you replied.

 

[martybegan]

This is what you said:


You are wrong. Now you're abandoning that point too? Whats the new one I can destroy?

Nope. Where is the codified instituionalized racism that AA was originally designed to combat? Its gone. You have to go to the dreg level of employment to get your numbers, when the discussion is about the upper levels of employment. Again, avoiding the crux of the argument.

Its not unless you ignore information for what you believe. This discussion is not about upper, lower, middle employement its about AA. Since you were wrong and I showed you there is a wage and employment gap now you're onto something new.

BTW I didn't have to use the quote button, you replied.

See, now you are getting into things like wage gaps, which are numbers that can be manipulated to basically say whatever you want them to say. Again you are ignoring the fact that someone has to lose when you play the AA game, and the person who loses often looks like me. You seem to be OK with discrimination as long as it suits your political view. I prefer to fight it no matter who it attacks, which makes you a far bigger bigot than me.

Congratulations, racist asshole. I havent been wrong yet, you seem to have a monopoly on that position.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Nope. Where is the codified instituionalized racism that AA was originally designed to combat? Its gone. You have to go to the dreg level of employment to get your numbers, when the discussion is about the upper levels of employment. Again, avoiding the crux of the argument.

Its not unless you ignore information for what you believe. This discussion is not about upper, lower, middle employement its about AA. Since you were wrong and I showed you there is a wage and employment gap now you're onto something new.

BTW I didn't have to use the quote button, you replied.

See, now you are getting into things like wage gaps, which are numbers that can be manipulated to basically say whatever you want them to say. Again you are ignoring the fact that someone has to lose when you play the AA game, and the person who loses often looks like me. You seem to be OK with discrimination as long as it suits your political view. I prefer to fight it no matter who it attacks, which makes you a far bigger bigot than me.

Congratulations, racist asshole. I havent been wrong yet, you seem to have a monopoly on that position.

Like I said, you're right as long as you dismiss every study, research etc etc etc. I never mentioned politics btw.

Keep being wrong. You're right and everyone else is wrong. There. lol

 

[martybegan]

Its not unless you ignore information for what you believe. This discussion is not about upper, lower, middle employement its about AA. Since you were wrong and I showed you there is a wage and employment gap now you're onto something new.

BTW I didn't have to use the quote button, you replied.

See, now you are getting into things like wage gaps, which are numbers that can be manipulated to basically say whatever you want them to say. Again you are ignoring the fact that someone has to lose when you play the AA game, and the person who loses often looks like me. You seem to be OK with discrimination as long as it suits your political view. I prefer to fight it no matter who it attacks, which makes you a far bigger bigot than me.

Congratulations, racist asshole. I havent been wrong yet, you seem to have a monopoly on that position.

Like I said, you're right as long as you dismiss every study, research etc etc etc

You quote studies, I refer to real people getting screwed over simply because of their sex and the color of thier skin. Studies are just that, studies, they are not hard facts, or real life occurences.

But keep running to the ivory tower data dumpers, it just weakens your position overall.

 

[ClosedCaption]

See, now you are getting into things like wage gaps, which are numbers that can be manipulated to basically say whatever you want them to say. Again you are ignoring the fact that someone has to lose when you play the AA game, and the person who loses often looks like me. You seem to be OK with discrimination as long as it suits your political view. I prefer to fight it no matter who it attacks, which makes you a far bigger bigot than me.

Congratulations, racist asshole. I havent been wrong yet, you seem to have a monopoly on that position.

Like I said, you're right as long as you dismiss every study, research etc etc etc

You quote studies, I refer to real people getting screwed over simply because of their sex and the color of thier skin. Studies are just that, studies, they are not hard facts, or real life occurences.

But keep running to the ivory tower data dumpers, it just weakens your position overall.

Personal anecdotes don't trump studies. I know you want it to be so but its not.

I told you earlier that you are right on everything as long as you dismiss reality. Now you are doing just that. Just like I said you would