Alger Hiss: American Hero...

[Gadawg73]

You good folks just do not get it.
Currently, what country runs the most spies in America? What country runs MORE intelligence and intelligence officers in the US working against US interests now than even at the height of the Cold War?
You have no fucking clue as you are media driven sheep.
The Chinese have at this moment a highly sophisticated intelligence operation that is very aggressive against us NOW.
So who is there in the Congress or the Senate that is going around on TV claiming that they have a list of 205 names of Chinese intelligence operatives in our government?
Where is that politician? Why isn't anyone in political office taking charge in this and holding press conferences like McCarthy did and holding up lists that claim they have the goods on these spies in the US government?
And believe me, you can bet your last dollar they are here and they are in our government operations SAME as there were communist agents in our government when McCarthy was grandstanding for his political future only.
There was NEVER any question that there were communist spies in government in the 1930s, the 40s and the 50s. There has NEVER been any question there have been Chinese spies in government now and there has NEVER been any question there have been spies in government since Benedict Arnold.
The biggest problem this nation has had in effectively fighting espionage in this country are attacks against our counterintelligence operations with bogus grandstanding public press conferences from the likes of McCarthy.
When you have someone holding public hearings dragging in no names that have nothing whatsoever to do with the intelligence operations of our enemies it inhibits clandestine intelligence collection capabilities as just as soon as our enemies see the TV cameras and publicity they temporarily shut down their penetrating intelligence services and lay low until the cameras are shut off. This collectively ruins and ends all on the street current surveillance and real time intelligence gathering of offensive counter intelligence.
Additionally, the military has their own counterintelligence forces and when McCarthy was at the height of his circus the military complained for the very reasons listed above. He was botching most all of their intelligence operations with his Red Scare hearings dragging in old black women from Hollywood that had been at one communist party meeting in the 30s. Military counterintelligence operations can be at home or abroad. Depending on the country there can be different combinations of civilian and military in the operations abroad. Same here as just as soon as the military complained about McCarthy and his fraudulent witch hunts McCarthy started to claim the military was full of communists.
Now who today stands up and holds hearings on Chinese spies in government and why not?
Because it would ruin ongoing intelligence gathering operations, the feeding of false information to foreign spies and the ongoing strategy of turning foreign spies into double agents.
In most all countries and here the counterintelligence mission is spread over multiple organizations.
However, one always dominates all the others and in the day of McCarthy that was not the case at the start of his publicity tour. Thank God the other intelligence operations of that day put a quick end to his mischief. If he was not stopped when he was there is no telling how much more damage he would have done to intelligence gathering of that day and how long it would have taken to correct the damage he did.
This is the real world that I live in. Please join me in it.

 

[gipper]

You good folks just do not get it.
Currently, what country runs the most spies in America? What country runs MORE intelligence and intelligence officers in the US working against US interests now than even at the height of the Cold War?
You have no fucking clue as you are media driven sheep.
The Chinese have at this moment a highly sophisticated intelligence operation that is very aggressive against us NOW.
So who is there in the Congress or the Senate that is going around on TV claiming that they have a list of 205 names of Chinese intelligence operatives in our government?
Where is that politician? Why isn't anyone in political office taking charge in this and holding press conferences like McCarthy did and holding up lists that claim they have the goods on these spies in the US government?
And believe me, you can bet your last dollar they are here and they are in our government operations SAME as there were communist agents in our government when McCarthy was grandstanding for his political future only.
There was NEVER any question that there were communist spies in government in the 1930s, the 40s and the 50s. There has NEVER been any question there have been Chinese spies in government now and there has NEVER been any question there have been spies in government since Benedict Arnold.
The biggest problem this nation has had in effectively fighting espionage in this country are attacks against our counterintelligence operations with bogus grandstanding public press conferences from the likes of McCarthy.
When you have someone holding public hearings dragging in no names that have nothing whatsoever to do with the intelligence operations of our enemies it inhibits clandestine intelligence collection capabilities as just as soon as our enemies see the TV cameras and publicity they temporarily shut down their penetrating intelligence services and lay low until the cameras are shut off. This collectively ruins and ends all on the street current surveillance and real time intelligence gathering of offensive counter intelligence.
Additionally, the military has their own counterintelligence forces and when McCarthy was at the height of his circus the military complained for the very reasons listed above. He was botching most all of their intelligence operations with his Red Scare hearings dragging in old black women from Hollywood that had been at one communist party meeting in the 30s. Military counterintelligence operations can be at home or abroad. Depending on the country there can be different combinations of civilian and military in the operations abroad. Same here as just as soon as the military complained about McCarthy and his fraudulent witch hunts McCarthy started to claim the military was full of communists.
Now who today stands up and holds hearings on Chinese spies in government and why not?
Because it would ruin ongoing intelligence gathering operations, the feeding of false information to foreign spies and the ongoing strategy of turning foreign spies into double agents.
In most all countries and here the counterintelligence mission is spread over multiple organizations.
However, one always dominates all the others and in the day of McCarthy that was not the case at the start of his publicity tour. Thank God the other intelligence operations of that day put a quick end to his mischief. If he was not stopped when he was there is no telling how much more damage he would have done to intelligence gathering of that day and how long it would have taken to correct the damage he did.
This is the real world that I live in. Please join me in it.

I can agree with much of that. There is and always will be spies in our government. We should learn from the failures of FDR and Truman to expose and remove these spies, rather than protecting them, which is what those POTUS's did.

We now know that American traitors inhabited some of the highest positions of our government during FDR's and Truman's administration....think Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, etc. Little was done to eliminate or control them. In fact, the efforts to expose them prior to JM, were denigrated and ignored. So, I doubt very much that counterintel was being done back in the 30s and 40s. So...your point on counterintel is meaningless.

How do you explain FDR's love and devotion for the Soviet Union? How do you explain FDR's complete capitulation to Stalin? He completely ignored warnings from many experts about the heinous nature of Stalin and Soviet Communism, while completely following the advice of traitorous commie spies.

I do not doubt that JM was grandstanding, after all he was a politician. He may have been heavy handed and clumsy. However, America needed someone to expose the massive network of commie spies. He did just that and for that, he is deserving of our thanks rather than ridicule.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You good folks just do not get it.
Currently, what country runs the most spies in America? What country runs MORE intelligence and intelligence officers in the US working against US interests now than even at the height of the Cold War?
You have no fucking clue as you are media driven sheep.
The Chinese have at this moment a highly sophisticated intelligence operation that is very aggressive against us NOW.
So who is there in the Congress or the Senate that is going around on TV claiming that they have a list of 205 names of Chinese intelligence operatives in our government?
Where is that politician? Why isn't anyone in political office taking charge in this and holding press conferences like McCarthy did and holding up lists that claim they have the goods on these spies in the US government?
And believe me, you can bet your last dollar they are here and they are in our government operations SAME as there were communist agents in our government when McCarthy was grandstanding for his political future only.
There was NEVER any question that there were communist spies in government in the 1930s, the 40s and the 50s. There has NEVER been any question there have been Chinese spies in government now and there has NEVER been any question there have been spies in government since Benedict Arnold.
The biggest problem this nation has had in effectively fighting espionage in this country are attacks against our counterintelligence operations with bogus grandstanding public press conferences from the likes of McCarthy.
When you have someone holding public hearings dragging in no names that have nothing whatsoever to do with the intelligence operations of our enemies it inhibits clandestine intelligence collection capabilities as just as soon as our enemies see the TV cameras and publicity they temporarily shut down their penetrating intelligence services and lay low until the cameras are shut off. This collectively ruins and ends all on the street current surveillance and real time intelligence gathering of offensive counter intelligence.
Additionally, the military has their own counterintelligence forces and when McCarthy was at the height of his circus the military complained for the very reasons listed above. He was botching most all of their intelligence operations with his Red Scare hearings dragging in old black women from Hollywood that had been at one communist party meeting in the 30s. Military counterintelligence operations can be at home or abroad. Depending on the country there can be different combinations of civilian and military in the operations abroad. Same here as just as soon as the military complained about McCarthy and his fraudulent witch hunts McCarthy started to claim the military was full of communists.
Now who today stands up and holds hearings on Chinese spies in government and why not?
Because it would ruin ongoing intelligence gathering operations, the feeding of false information to foreign spies and the ongoing strategy of turning foreign spies into double agents.
In most all countries and here the counterintelligence mission is spread over multiple organizations.
However, one always dominates all the others and in the day of McCarthy that was not the case at the start of his publicity tour. Thank God the other intelligence operations of that day put a quick end to his mischief. If he was not stopped when he was there is no telling how much more damage he would have done to intelligence gathering of that day and how long it would have taken to correct the damage he did.
This is the real world that I live in. Please join me in it.

I can agree with much of that. There is and always will be spies in our government. We should learn from the failures of FDR and Truman to expose and remove these spies, rather than protecting them, which is what those POTUS's did.

We now know that American traitors inhabited some of the highest positions of our government during FDR's and Truman's administration....think Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, etc. Little was done to eliminate or control them. In fact, the efforts to expose them prior to JM, were denigrated and ignored. So, I doubt very much that counterintel was being done back in the 30s and 40s. So...your point on counterintel is meaningless.

How do you explain FDR's love and devotion for the Soviet Union? How do you explain FDR's complete capitulation to Stalin? He completely ignored warnings from many experts about the heinous nature of Stalin and Soviet Communism, while completely following the advice of traitorous commie spies.

I do not doubt that JM was grandstanding, after all he was a politician. He may have been heavy handed and clumsy. However, America needed someone to expose the massive network of commie spies. He did just that and for that, he is deserving of our thanks rather than ridicule.

"We now know that American traitors inhabited some of the highest positions of our government during FDR's and Truman's administration.."


What Whitaker Chambers discovered about Marxism-Leninism as related in his classic "Witness" applies....

A famous passage in "Witness" continually bears remembering:
"You don't understand the class structure of American society," said Smetana, "or you would not ask such a question. In the United States, the working class are Democrats. The middle class are Republicans. The upper class are Communists."

 

[Gadawg73]

You good folks just do not get it.
Currently, what country runs the most spies in America? What country runs MORE intelligence and intelligence officers in the US working against US interests now than even at the height of the Cold War?
You have no fucking clue as you are media driven sheep.
The Chinese have at this moment a highly sophisticated intelligence operation that is very aggressive against us NOW.
So who is there in the Congress or the Senate that is going around on TV claiming that they have a list of 205 names of Chinese intelligence operatives in our government?
Where is that politician? Why isn't anyone in political office taking charge in this and holding press conferences like McCarthy did and holding up lists that claim they have the goods on these spies in the US government?
And believe me, you can bet your last dollar they are here and they are in our government operations SAME as there were communist agents in our government when McCarthy was grandstanding for his political future only.
There was NEVER any question that there were communist spies in government in the 1930s, the 40s and the 50s. There has NEVER been any question there have been Chinese spies in government now and there has NEVER been any question there have been spies in government since Benedict Arnold.
The biggest problem this nation has had in effectively fighting espionage in this country are attacks against our counterintelligence operations with bogus grandstanding public press conferences from the likes of McCarthy.
When you have someone holding public hearings dragging in no names that have nothing whatsoever to do with the intelligence operations of our enemies it inhibits clandestine intelligence collection capabilities as just as soon as our enemies see the TV cameras and publicity they temporarily shut down their penetrating intelligence services and lay low until the cameras are shut off. This collectively ruins and ends all on the street current surveillance and real time intelligence gathering of offensive counter intelligence.
Additionally, the military has their own counterintelligence forces and when McCarthy was at the height of his circus the military complained for the very reasons listed above. He was botching most all of their intelligence operations with his Red Scare hearings dragging in old black women from Hollywood that had been at one communist party meeting in the 30s. Military counterintelligence operations can be at home or abroad. Depending on the country there can be different combinations of civilian and military in the operations abroad. Same here as just as soon as the military complained about McCarthy and his fraudulent witch hunts McCarthy started to claim the military was full of communists.
Now who today stands up and holds hearings on Chinese spies in government and why not?
Because it would ruin ongoing intelligence gathering operations, the feeding of false information to foreign spies and the ongoing strategy of turning foreign spies into double agents.
In most all countries and here the counterintelligence mission is spread over multiple organizations.
However, one always dominates all the others and in the day of McCarthy that was not the case at the start of his publicity tour. Thank God the other intelligence operations of that day put a quick end to his mischief. If he was not stopped when he was there is no telling how much more damage he would have done to intelligence gathering of that day and how long it would have taken to correct the damage he did.
This is the real world that I live in. Please join me in it.

I can agree with much of that. There is and always will be spies in our government. We should learn from the failures of FDR and Truman to expose and remove these spies, rather than protecting them, which is what those POTUS's did.

We now know that American traitors inhabited some of the highest positions of our government during FDR's and Truman's administration....think Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, etc. Little was done to eliminate or control them. In fact, the efforts to expose them prior to JM, were denigrated and ignored. So, I doubt very much that counterintel was being done back in the 30s and 40s. So...your point on counterintel is meaningless.

How do you explain FDR's love and devotion for the Soviet Union? How do you explain FDR's complete capitulation to Stalin? He completely ignored warnings from many experts about the heinous nature of Stalin and Soviet Communism, while completely following the advice of traitorous commie spies.

I do not doubt that JM was grandstanding, after all he was a politician. He may have been heavy handed and clumsy. However, America needed someone to expose the massive network of commie spies. He did just that and for that, he is deserving of our thanks rather than ridicule.

"We now know that American traitors inhabited some of the highest positions of our government during FDR's and Truman's administration.."


What Whitaker Chambers discovered about Marxism-Leninism as related in his classic "Witness" applies....

A famous passage in "Witness" continually bears remembering:
"You don't understand the class structure of American society," said Smetana, "or you would not ask such a question. In the United States, the working class are Democrats. The middle class are Republicans. The upper class are Communists."

Chambers was an admitted liar many times before his "fingering" of Hiss.
The McCarthy PR hour was in what year? And how many years after the espionage alleged by McCarthy of that era?
Decade(s)
Where in any of your posts about McCarthy and his proclamations, claims and conclusions is there any mention of the CURRENT intelligence operations of that day, 1954?
Tell us what was the geographic area of the world that had the most communist power in this hemisphere?
Ever heard of Guatemala? Ever heard of the United Fruit Company?
During the McCarthy hearings communists were essentially taking over the government there and we had numerous intelligence operations ongoing there that were in grave danger of being compromised because of McCarthy hashing out ancient rumors of decades old claims. Real time agents and assets on the ground risking their lives and what do we have in DC? A politician on TV grandstanding about every branch of government possibly having communist spies.
An intelligence operatives worst nightmare.
As a result of that fuck up Washington used the CIA and our ambassador there Puerifoy to fund and instruct certain well connected Guatemalan military to over throw the elected Albanez government. What followed was a massive failure that resulted in more repressive military regimes there for the next 50 years.
All brought on by the Red Scare McCarthy witch hunts that led politicians to go with which way the wind was blowing instead of sound long term intelligence gathering, dissemination and the appropriate foreign policy based on facts instead of political opportunity.
This is my world sports fans. Assets in the field have NO partisan ideology.

 

[elektra]

Gadawg73, you spew so much incorrect political propaganda in such a short space it is apparent you know nothing.

McCarthy has been vindicated, the Russian's admit this, yet you can not? Seems the Russian archives are a much better source, care for a link, google has one.