Alger Hiss: American Hero...

[Gadawg73]

The trial WAS A PERJURY TRIAL.
He was NEVER TRIED for being a communist spy.

 

[Gadawg73]

"Expert estimates now peg the number of Americans assisting Soviet intelligence agencies during the 1930s and 1940s as exceeding five hundred. Not one Aldrich Ames. Not two Rosenbergs. Not five “magnificent” Cambridgers. More than five hundred willing and variously able American traitors, many operating at the very highest levels of the federal government, with who knows how many more in support roles. This was a national security fiasco of a magnitude that has never, ever entered national comprehension."
Andrew McCarthy, Ibid.



Did you notice the word 'comprehension' in the quote.....

...that doesn't apply to you.

"Experts estimate"
Who are these so called "experts" You?
Start with the 205 Joe claimed he had the names in his pocket.
Who are the 205?
You are beyond weak. You have nothing. You would not last 10 seconds in my world where facts have to be proven.

"Who are these so called "experts" You?"

You should have that A.D.D. looked into.....

This, from post #44....not that long ago....

1. ".... original source archives that have come to light in recent years suggest that, if anything, McCarthy understated the breadth of Soviet infiltration. These include the revelations by the former KGB Chief Oleg Gordievsky, who in conjunction with the Cambridge intelligence expert Christopher Andrew, began exposing the scope of Soviet penetration in 1990, even before the USSR collapsed; the U.S. intelligence community’s Venona decryptions that began becoming public in the mid-1990s and were summarized in breathtaking detail by Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel; the investigative work of Jerrold and Leona Schecter, who traced the flow of Venona revelations into the Truman White House, beginning as early as 1945; the former KGB archivist Vasily Mitrokhin, who smuggled his files out of Moscow in 1992 (and who, in conjunction with Christopher Andrew, found astonishing the apathy of American historians regarding the KGB’s influence operations); the groundbreaking scholarship of John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr on the history of Communist espionage and the mulish determination of the academy not to notice it; the voluminous evidence of American treason on Moscow’s behalf amassed by Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev; the files of FBI investigations and congressional hearings on Communist infiltration that have recently been declassified; and so on."



Experts.


And, relative to you, I'm an expert, too.
As I stated in the earlier post, I've studied most of the authors listed.

And I asked if you had....
...the question was rhetorical....you're reading is probably Bazooka bubble gum wrappers....

True?



Dolt.

No doubt in my mind you are an expert.
But not on this subject.
Go back to what you do best and hike that skirt up a little higher.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You know I am right so all you have to come back with are insults.
The evidence was so overwhelming that Hiss was a communist spy he was convicted of PERJURY.
Wow, a perjury conviction for an alleged communist spy.
And you are naive and gullible enough to believe otherwise. McCarthy depended on the naive and gullible like you. You believe anything and do not require any evidence.
Perjury conviction.
My job has taken me to half the states in this country and around the world as a licensed private detective with over 3000 criminal cases under my belt.
Only a dumb ass believes Hiss was a communist spy. And that would be you and everyone else that believes that. EVIDENCE is required and they had NONE.
Same with McCarthy. All hot air which is all you require.
I beat low information citizens like you daily in my work. Lazy law enforcement, fat detectives that spend half their days at the doughnut shops, politicians posing as prosecutors and corrupt politicians that prey on naive citizens like you with their public relations "causes" like McCarthy. I win most all the time, you lose.
This nation was founded ON the presumption of innocence, innocent until proven guilty, the defendant NEVER has to prove a damn thing and Hiss was NEVER proven guilty.
Sad day in this country when ignorant citizens ignore the Constitutional guarantees mentioned above in favor of a partisan political demagogue like McCarthy and the supporters of the Hiss witch trial which ended in what?
A PERJURY CONVICTION.

Can you please provide credible sources backing your assertion that Hiss was not a commie spy? Lets not get bogged down in the legalities of Hiss' trial. A trial that took place in 1950!!! Are you aware that much has come to light since 1950????? Or are we to ignore the new information and stay stuck in 1950????

If you have sources that prove Hiss was NOT a commie spy, lets see them.

Hate to inform you Moe but under the law your rank hearsay that he was a spy is not evidence of anything.
The rule of law is that YOU have to prove he was a communist spy.
And to date you have offered NO evidence whatsoever.
Hell Moe, Hiss was NOT EVEN CHARGED with being a communist spy. Why?
Because they had NO evidence he was one.
To date Hiss is PRESUMED INNOCENT of being a communist spy.
Something about THE RULE OF LAW, not men and their various and changing like the wind religious and partisan political opinions.
The United States Constitution puts the burden 100% on YOU to prove he was a communist spy.
An interesting document. I suggest you read it as well as the grand jury proceedings and all the executive sessions of the House Un-American Activities committee.
Or remain in the dark with NO evidence to base your opinions on.

1. "Ales" of the Venona Papers

2. Venona evidence regarding Alger Hiss is less conclusive, though it was sufficient for a bipartisan Commission on Government Secrecy, headed by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan to conclude "The complicity of Alger Hiss of the State Department seems settled. As does that of Harry Dexter White of the Treasury Department."[24] Whittaker Chambers - New World Encyclopedia


Dolt.

 

[gipper]

Hate to inform you Moe but under the law your rank hearsay that he was a spy is not evidence of anything.
The rule of law is that YOU have to prove he was a communist spy.
And to date you have offered NO evidence whatsoever.
Hell Moe, Hiss was NOT EVEN CHARGED with being a communist spy. Why?
Because they had NO evidence he was one.
To date Hiss is PRESUMED INNOCENT of being a communist spy.
Something about THE RULE OF LAW, not men and their various and changing like the wind religious and partisan political opinions.
The United States Constitution puts the burden 100% on YOU to prove he was a communist spy.
An interesting document. I suggest you read it as well as the grand jury proceedings and all the executive sessions of the House Un-American Activities committee.
Or remain in the dark with NO evidence to base your opinions on.

Hey Moe, please respond to my previous post.

Show me some evidence.
I have collected evidence over the years in many fraud, embezzlement and related cases that sent people to prison.
ALL of them required EVIDENCE.
Show me the evidence he was a communist spy.
Where is it.
Maybe, could have been does not cut it.

I thought maybe you had evidence, but apparently you do not.

You are merely a foolish troll.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Experts estimate"
Who are these so called "experts" You?
Start with the 205 Joe claimed he had the names in his pocket.
Who are the 205?
You are beyond weak. You have nothing. You would not last 10 seconds in my world where facts have to be proven.

"Who are these so called "experts" You?"

You should have that A.D.D. looked into.....

This, from post #44....not that long ago....

1. ".... original source archives that have come to light in recent years suggest that, if anything, McCarthy understated the breadth of Soviet infiltration. These include the revelations by the former KGB Chief Oleg Gordievsky, who in conjunction with the Cambridge intelligence expert Christopher Andrew, began exposing the scope of Soviet penetration in 1990, even before the USSR collapsed; the U.S. intelligence community’s Venona decryptions that began becoming public in the mid-1990s and were summarized in breathtaking detail by Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel; the investigative work of Jerrold and Leona Schecter, who traced the flow of Venona revelations into the Truman White House, beginning as early as 1945; the former KGB archivist Vasily Mitrokhin, who smuggled his files out of Moscow in 1992 (and who, in conjunction with Christopher Andrew, found astonishing the apathy of American historians regarding the KGB’s influence operations); the groundbreaking scholarship of John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr on the history of Communist espionage and the mulish determination of the academy not to notice it; the voluminous evidence of American treason on Moscow’s behalf amassed by Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev; the files of FBI investigations and congressional hearings on Communist infiltration that have recently been declassified; and so on."



Experts.


And, relative to you, I'm an expert, too.
As I stated in the earlier post, I've studied most of the authors listed.

And I asked if you had....
...the question was rhetorical....you're reading is probably Bazooka bubble gum wrappers....

True?



Dolt.

No doubt in my mind you are an expert.
But not on this subject.
Go back to what you do best and hike that skirt up a little higher.

So....let's stipulate....you haven't read any of the pertinent material.


And the basis of your opinions is exactly the same as it was when you dropped out in the third grade.....


Ignorance, which, in your ineptitude, you wave like some sort of majestic frond!





I will be processing your post with my SEM/EDX instrument in hope of finding any hint of intelligence.

 

[Gadawg73]

"Verona evidence regarding Hiss is less conclusive"
Ales continued being a spy after 1938 confirmed in the Verona papers. Chambers himself stated that he quit being a spy in 1938 and acting with Hiss. Verona papers are very clear that the courier with Ales worked far past 1938 and they claim that was Chambers before then.
Not a match, never will be.
The reality is that the FBI started investigating Hiss in 1941 and never quit for half a century. HALF A CENTURY and still NO evidence. Let us look at the facts:]
Years of wiretaps, mail interception and physical surveillance teams of both his personal and official life.
Nothing.
Thousands of pages of surveillance logs by FBI agents.
Nothing.
Not one piece of evidence ever connecting Hiss or his family to Soviet espionage OR communist activities.
Nothing.
ALL they ever obtained were variable stories from the self confessed perjurer Whitaker Chambers and his followers.
Nothing.
But I dig your moniker. You have something there.

 

[Gadawg73]

Hey Moe, please respond to my previous post.

Show me some evidence.
I have collected evidence over the years in many fraud, embezzlement and related cases that sent people to prison.
ALL of them required EVIDENCE.
Show me the evidence he was a communist spy.
Where is it.
Maybe, could have been does not cut it.

I thought maybe you had evidence, but apparently you do not.

You are merely a foolish troll.

You have NO evidence. No one has to prove themselves innocent of rank hearsay.
You are ignorant as to the law and unfit to serve on a jury.
The presumption of innocence is the foundation of this country.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Verona evidence regarding Hiss is less conclusive"
Ales continued being a spy after 1938 confirmed in the Verona papers. Chambers himself stated that he quit being a spy in 1938 and acting with Hiss. Verona papers are very clear that the courier with Ales worked far past 1938 and they claim that was Chambers before then.
Not a match, never will be.
The reality is that the FBI started investigating Hiss in 1941 and never quit for half a century. HALF A CENTURY and still NO evidence. Let us look at the facts:]
Years of wiretaps, mail interception and physical surveillance teams of both his personal and official life.
Nothing.
Thousands of pages of surveillance logs by FBI agents.
Nothing.
Not one piece of evidence ever connecting Hiss or his family to Soviet espionage OR communist activities.
Nothing.
ALL they ever obtained were variable stories from the self confessed perjurer Whitaker Chambers and his followers.
Nothing.
But I dig your moniker. You have something there.

What can one say about you that hasn't already been said....

....except, possibly this:

"Well if it isn’t fat stinking billygoat billyboy. How art thou, thou globby bottle of cheap, stinking chip-oil? Come get some in the yarbles, if you have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou!"
A Clockwork Orange

 

[daveman]

The question still stands about why the radical left is so coy about communism.

They support it, but know normal Americans won't go along with their agenda...so they believe merely filing off the serial numbers of the Communist Party platform and calling it "progressivism" is sufficient to fool a lot of people.

And given the results of the last two Presidential elections -- they were right.

 

[daveman]

Hate to inform you Moe but under the law your rank hearsay that he was a spy is not evidence of anything.
The rule of law is that YOU have to prove he was a communist spy.
And to date you have offered NO evidence whatsoever.
Hell Moe, Hiss was NOT EVEN CHARGED with being a communist spy. Why?
Because they had NO evidence he was one.
To date Hiss is PRESUMED INNOCENT of being a communist spy.
Something about THE RULE OF LAW, not men and their various and changing like the wind religious and partisan political opinions.
The United States Constitution puts the burden 100% on YOU to prove he was a communist spy.
An interesting document. I suggest you read it as well as the grand jury proceedings and all the executive sessions of the House Un-American Activities committee.
Or remain in the dark with NO evidence to base your opinions on.

Hey Moe, please respond to my previous post.

Show me some evidence.
I have collected evidence over the years in many fraud, embezzlement and related cases that sent people to prison.
ALL of them required EVIDENCE.
Show me the evidence he was a communist spy.
Where is it.
Maybe, could have been does not cut it.

You sure do seem passionate about defending a man who was almost definitely a Communist spy.

I'm curious why. It's not like you're going to change anyone's mind. It's not like there's a conviction for espionage to be overturned. It's not like people are going to suddenly think Communism isn't so bad based on your foot-stamping.

What's the big deal?

 

[daveman]

The trial WAS A PERJURY TRIAL.
He was NEVER TRIED for being a communist spy.

Only because the statute of limitations had run out.

Stop pretending it's because there was no case against him.

 

[daveman]

Go back to what you do best and hike that skirt up a little higher.

Misogyny isn't helping your case at all. In fact, it's pretty much a surrender.

 

[Gadawg73]

The trial WAS A PERJURY TRIAL.
He was NEVER TRIED for being a communist spy.

Only because the statute of limitations had run out.

Stop pretending it's because there was no case against him.

Other than rank hearsay from Chambers, who changed his story many times and was an admitted perjurer, and a woman also an admitted perjurer who was being deported:
what other evidence was there?
Hiss never would have been convicted of anything as there was NO hard evidence of anything.
And Dave, please list the names of the 205 communists McCarthy claimed he had evidence on as being spies at State Department.
And Dave, how come it did not bother you that IF McCarthy ever had those names, and you are not foolish enough to believe he ever did, how come no one ever demanded HE give up all those names so they could get rid and/or prosecute them?
You are the one that needs to stop pretending McCarthy had valid evidence of 205 communist spies at State. They called his bluff and he went away.
And the kicker is John Foster Dulles, tell us he was Dave and what he did, never believed it either. He knew Hiss was railroaded by a political witch hunt.
Hiss to his death maintained his innocence and made every effort possible to clear his name.

 

[Gadawg73]

The BEST evidence that anyone that backs McCarthy is THE 205 NAMES.
Where are they?
They do not exist so the entire case falls like a sack of taters.

 

[Gadawg73]

Go back to what you do best and hike that skirt up a little higher.

Misogyny isn't helping your case at all. In fact, it's pretty much a surrender.

All the while you have your partisan head in the sand and ignore her calling me names.
The partisan biased political ideological hack that you are.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The trial WAS A PERJURY TRIAL.
He was NEVER TRIED for being a communist spy.

Only because the statute of limitations had run out.

Stop pretending it's because there was no case against him.

Other than rank hearsay from Chambers, who changed his story many times and was an admitted perjurer, and a woman also an admitted perjurer who was being deported:
what other evidence was there?
Hiss never would have been convicted of anything as there was NO hard evidence of anything.
And Dave, please list the names of the 205 communists McCarthy claimed he had evidence on as being spies at State Department.
And Dave, how come it did not bother you that IF McCarthy ever had those names, and you are not foolish enough to believe he ever did, how come no one ever demanded HE give up all those names so they could get rid and/or prosecute them?
You are the one that needs to stop pretending McCarthy had valid evidence of 205 communist spies at State. They called his bluff and he went away.
And the kicker is John Foster Dulles, tell us he was Dave and what he did, never believed it either. He knew Hiss was railroaded by a political witch hunt.
Hiss to his death maintained his innocence and made every effort possible to clear his name.

Still defending Hiss? Ever heard of Elizabeth Bentley?

Hmm?

Here, let me do your "research" for you

"Elizabeth Terrill Bentley (January 1, 1908 – December 3, 1963) was an American spy for the Soviet Union from 1938 until 1945. In 1945 she defected from the Communist Party and Soviet intelligence and became an informer for the U.S. She exposed two networks of spies, ultimately naming over 80 Americans who had engaged in espionage for the Soviets.[1] When her testimony became public in 1948, it became a media sensation and had a major effect on the popular anti-communism of the McCarthy era.[2]"

Elizabeth Bentley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then look up: Hede Massing, Nathaniel Weyl and Louis Budenz

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The BEST evidence that anyone that backs McCarthy is THE 205 NAMES.
Where are they?
They do not exist so the entire case falls like a sack of taters.

Pick up a book on Hiss.

 

[elektra]

I am not a radical lefty.
I require evidence and go by The United States Constitution which says what?
A defendant is presumed innocent.
A defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
A defendant NEVER has to prove ANYTHING at trial.
The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the government to prove EACH AND EVERY element of their case and the defendant does not have to offer anything.
So tell us what evidence did McCarthy offer and who did he convict?
BTW, Truman backed Hiss and believed him to be INNOCENT.

We believe you, your not a radiocal lefty, whatever you despite what you post, and I hail to the credentials you site, being a lawyer and all you are the only good the country has produced and we all bow to your superior intelligence.

Thank you so much for teaching us the basics, like a person is innocent until proven guilty, of course in this case of alger hiss, who is still innocent despite the courts you make an extreme profit from. Yes, those courts are right all the time when they involve you, so you obviously know when they make a gross error so I bow to your superior utopian judgement

I am not a lawyer.
Jury trial Moe. A jury heard the case and prosecutors brought it.
Civics 101. I am sure a local community college near you teaches it.
Good to see you admit you have NO evidence whatsoever.

Of course I have NO evidence, I am just a person on the internet, did you think you were talking to the prosecutor? Gee, were you even there? Your just reading stuff, huh.

Oh, I guess your here to just taunt, as your response was to me on a personal level and had nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Gadawg73]

Where are the 205 names? Your team claims for how many years that McCarthy was credible.
Then how come he never provided those names?
It is because they did not exist and you know it but are too stubborn in your partisan ideological stance to admit it.
There was never a list with 205 names. You folks are as gullible and naive as they come.
Where are the names? How come you do not require your hero to back up ANY of his story?
I would expect this from the liberals but you guys that claim to be conservatives?
Conservatives know better and require evidence.
There is no evidence.
The 205 names, who are they?
Sorry you were conned.

 

[daveman]

Go back to what you do best and hike that skirt up a little higher.

Misogyny isn't helping your case at all. In fact, it's pretty much a surrender.

All the while you have your partisan head in the sand and ignore her calling me names.
The partisan biased political ideological hack that you are.

I see that Political Buzzword of the Day toilet paper is really paying off for you.

Meanwhile, PC is insulting you because you're an idiot.

You're insulting her because you can't tolerate being out-thought by a woman, so you're mindlessly flinging sexist comments.

Grow up, you sissy bedwetter.