Alger Hiss: American Hero...

[PoliticalChic]

We understand that the run of the mill conservative knows nothing of us. You accuse us of being Communists when many are so much more patriotic than you conservatives.

I'm bettin' that folks noticed that you couldn't deny that the 13 items in the post documented the kinship of Liberals and communists.

Busted.

Was, in fact, so painful that, in your post, you hid behind the Liberal "we."

Who elected you to speak for them?

Maybe your pals in the 'nervous hospital'?

It is only Communism is the eyes of a paranoid conservative, and not a very bright one at that.

"It is only Communism is the eyes of a paranoid conservative, and not a very bright one at that."


This is just tooooo good!


'Fraid we're gonna see who really isn't very bright....


Ya' see, the points listed were from the Congressional record,
Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .


"On January 10, 1963, the House of Representative and later the Senate began reviewing a document entitled "Communist Goals for Taking Over America." It contained an agenda of 45 separate issues that, in hindsight was quite shocking back then and equally shocking today. "
From same source as earlier post.


"It is only Communism is the eyes of a paranoid conservative, and not a very bright one at that."


OK....say 'duhhhhhhh.'

 

[Gadawg73]

Maybe Hiss was a communist spy.
But there was no evidence he was.
Whittaker Chambers was the ONLY witness to claim he was in the first trial and he first denied that Hiss was a spy.
Hiss testified before a House committee he was not a communist or a spy.
Chambers says he was a communist before that same committee.
Hiss was never indicted for espionage because the statute of limitations had run. Why did they allow it to run? He was indicted and tried on 2 counts of perjury.
Chambers admits at trial he lied many times under oath relating to this matter including lies about dates and other facts.
First trial deadlocked hung jury even with the Cold War scare in America the evidence was so pitiful.
Second trial prosecution brings in a citizen about to be deported who the Judge would not allow to testify in the first trial because her story was so bogus. Cold War hysteria forced 2nd Judge to allow her testimony. After the trial even though she was an admitted communist spy and liar she was allowed to stay in the US. Jury finds Hiss guilty OF PERJURY.
He receives five years which is unheard of for a perjury conviction especially when the ONLY witnesses were admitted liars.
Tail Gunner Joe 2 weeks later makes his first speech about all the communists in government.
Geez, only a dumb ass goes for this crap.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We understand that the run of the mill conservative knows nothing of us. You accuse us of being Communists when many are so much more patriotic than you conservatives.

I'm bettin' that folks noticed that you couldn't deny that the 13 items in the post documented the kinship of Liberals and communists.

Busted.

Was, in fact, so painful that, in your post, you hid behind the Liberal "we."

Who elected you to speak for them?

Maybe your pals in the 'nervous hospital'?

It is only Communism is the eyes of a paranoid conservative, and not a very bright one at that.

Just finished reading Andrew McCarthy's spirited defense of Diana West's "American Betrayal" and saw the relevance to this post.....



"Communist espionage not only distorted American war decisions but, far more significantly, eroded the pillars of Western civilization: the capacity to reason based on firm convictions about right and wrong, and to grasp that good cannot align with evil without losing its way.American Betrayal is not a history of World War II. It is a neon-flashing admonition that we either reinforce those pillars or resign ourselves a very different, dissipated America."
Red herrings by Andrew C. McCarthy - The New Criterion


This, I believe, is what you fail to understand.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Maybe Hiss was a communist spy.
But there was no evidence he was.
Whittaker Chambers was the ONLY witness to claim he was in the first trial and he first denied that Hiss was a spy.
Hiss testified before a House committee he was not a communist or a spy.
Chambers says he was a communist before that same committee.
Hiss was never indicted for espionage because the statute of limitations had run. Why did they allow it to run? He was indicted and tried on 2 counts of perjury.
Chambers admits at trial he lied many times under oath relating to this matter including lies about dates and other facts.
First trial deadlocked hung jury even with the Cold War scare in America the evidence was so pitiful.
Second trial prosecution brings in a citizen about to be deported who the Judge would not allow to testify in the first trial because his story was so bogus. Cold War hysteria forced 2nd Judge to allow her testimony. After the trial even though she was an admitted communist spy and liar she was allowed to stay in the US. Jury finds Hiss guilty OF PERJURY.
He receives five years which is unheard of for a perjury conviction especially when the ONLY witnesses were admitted liars.
Tail Gunner Joe 2 weeks later makes his first speech about all the communists in government.
Geez, only a dumb ass goes for this crap.

As usual, you reveal yourself to be an ignorant buffoon.



1. ".... original source archives that have come to light in recent years suggest that, if anything, McCarthy understated the breadth of Soviet infiltration. These include the revelations by the former KGB Chief Oleg Gordievsky, who in conjunction with the Cambridge intelligence expert Christopher Andrew, began exposing the scope of Soviet penetration in 1990, even before the USSR collapsed; the U.S. intelligence community’s Venona decryptions that began becoming public in the mid-1990s and were summarized in breathtaking detail by Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel; the investigative work of Jerrold and Leona Schecter, who traced the flow of Venona revelations into the Truman White House, beginning as early as 1945; the former KGB archivist Vasily Mitrokhin, who smuggled his files out of Moscow in 1992 (and who, in conjunction with Christopher Andrew, found astonishing the apathy of American historians regarding the KGB’s influence operations); the groundbreaking scholarship of John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr on the history of Communist espionage and the mulish determination of the academy not to notice it; the voluminous evidence of American treason on Moscow’s behalf amassed by Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev; the files of FBI investigations and congressional hearings on Communist infiltration that have recently been declassified; and so on.

2. No American in history has undergone as thoroughgoing a character assassination as McCarthy. So successful has the campaign been that one senses from some quadrants on the Right both acceptance of the shopworn narrative that, in his zeal, McCarthy profoundly harmed the cause of anti-Communism and apprehension that any whiff of sympathy for McCarthy will doom conservative credibility. On the latter point, no allowance is made for the strong case that McCarthy was overwhelmingly correct about the Communist threat—especially, the outrage that known and reasonably suspected Communists continued to work in high-ranking government positions for years after being identified as such.


3. Communist espionage not only distorted American war decisions but, far more significantly, eroded the pillars of Western civilization: the capacity to reason based on firm convictions about right and wrong, and to grasp that good cannot align with evil without losing its way.... we either reinforce those pillars or resign ourselves a very different, dissipated America."
Red herrings by Andrew C. McCarthy - The New Criterion



I've read the books mentioned in #1 above......have you?

You remain a moron screaming to be relevant.

Stick to your first job.....lawn jockey.

 

[daveman]

Good points all.

Rather than being rightly considered a hero, JM was and is still demonized by the Left. This would appear to give a strong indication as to the types of individuals writing our history. And yet, we have a persistent poster here who considers the words of some historians as gospel.

And his historians are Liberals...and, as Whittaker Chambers wrote in his book WITNESS, liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs. In short, Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals.

Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals?

If you post something this stupid, do not expect anyone other than Daveman or Crusader Frank to take you serious.

Was Kennedy capable of fighting the Communusts during the Cuban Missle Crisis?

Who ran Cuba is immaterial. If the Vatican had installed nuclear missiles on the island, Kennedy would have opposed it.

 

[daveman]

We understand that the run of the mill conservative knows nothing of us. You accuse us of being Communists when many are so much more patriotic than you conservatives.

Sure. You're just not patriotic for the United States of America.

 

[daveman]

Many, or most of your points may be correct. Where you error, is that these points are realistic and make the world a better place. You are just too brainwashed to admit it.

"Liberals aren't Communists! But the Communists sure had some good ideas, didn't they?"

Way to contradict yourself, Skippy.

 

[gipper]

"Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals?

If you post something this stupid, blah blah blah..."




Look....I bow to your expertise at "stupid"....as you have clearly been steeped in stupidity your entire life....

...but Chambers, former communist was correct, and easily proven so.



Here are some of the aims and designs of Liberals:


1. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

2. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces.

3. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.




4. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

5. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

6. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.




7. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

8. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."




9. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

a. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."





10. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

11. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man." Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

12. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

13. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.


Now....wouldn't an honest appraisal ....I understand how that omits your input.....agree that all or almost all are clearly the aims and direction of Democrats/Liberals/Progressive leaders?


I mean, seriously......


QED?




Oh...wait.....did I say Democrats/Liberals/Progressives????
Silly me....I got 'em from a website of declared communist goals...
The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals



Ohhhh......did I make you look like the fool that you are again?
So sorry.
Guess you'll have something to say about my avi again, huh?
Dope.

The sad thing is that the run of the mill American liberal or progressive is not smart enough to recognize that what they advocate for or believe, is in effect, communism.

We understand that the run of the mill conservative knows nothing of us. You accuse us of being Communists when many are so much more patriotic than you conservatives.

You are terribly confused or maybe, just not aware.

The Left has always sided with enemies of traditional American values and always will. No doubt you condemn Joe McCarthy and fail to recognize the treasonous activities of hundreds of American commies that infiltrated FDR's and Truman's administration.

Did you know the Right knows the Left far far far better than the Left knows the right....and in many cases, we know your kind better than you know yourselves.

Here is proof.

Liberals or Conservatives: Who’s Really Close-Minded?
By Andrew G. Biggs
Thursday, April 12, 2012
Filed under: Book Reviews, Government & Politics

Conservatives understand their ideological opposite numbers far better than do liberals.

To be “close-minded” is, according to the dictionary, to be “intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.” To be conservative and close-minded, according to popular portrayal, is a redundancy—a package deal that liberals can and do take for granted.

But University of Virginia Professor Jonathan Haidt’s new book The Righteous Mind doesn’t simply suggest that conservatives may not be as close-minded as they are portrayed. It proves that the opposite is the case, that conservatives understand their ideological opposite numbers far better than do liberals.

Haidt’s research asks individuals to answer questionnaires regarding their core moral beliefs—what sorts of values they consider sacred, which they would compromise on, and how much it would take to get them to make those compromises. By themselves, these exercises are interesting. (Try them online and see where you come out.)

Liberals don’t know what they don’t know; they don’t understand how limited their knowledge of conservative values is

Liberals or Conservatives: Who?s Really Close-Minded? ? The American Magazine

 

[whitehall]

You gotta admire the power of the left wing media when they portray FDR as a hero when he incarcerated American citizens ...let me say it again...American citizens behind barbed wire on the basis of their skin color and the slant of their eyes. Meanwhile the radical left was shocked that Hollywood, sniff, sniff, fired screen writers because they were afraid of losing a buck due to anti-communist rhetoric. It was the democrat majority in the House that created HUAC but the left wing media managed to blame the whole thing on a single republican senator.

 

[daveman]

The sad thing is that the run of the mill American liberal or progressive is not smart enough to recognize that what they advocate for or believe, is in effect, communism.

We understand that the run of the mill conservative knows nothing of us. You accuse us of being Communists when many are so much more patriotic than you conservatives.

You are terribly confused or maybe, just not aware.

The Left has always sided with enemies of traditional American values and always will. No doubt you condemn Joe McCarthy and fail to recognize the treasonous activities of hundreds of American commies that infiltrated FDR's and Truman's administration.

Did you know the Right knows the Left far far far better than the Left knows the right....and in many cases, we know your kind better than you know yourselves.

Here is proof.

Liberals or Conservatives: Who’s Really Close-Minded?
By Andrew G. Biggs
Thursday, April 12, 2012
Filed under: Book Reviews, Government & Politics

Conservatives understand their ideological opposite numbers far better than do liberals.

To be “close-minded” is, according to the dictionary, to be “intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.” To be conservative and close-minded, according to popular portrayal, is a redundancy—a package deal that liberals can and do take for granted.

But University of Virginia Professor Jonathan Haidt’s new book The Righteous Mind doesn’t simply suggest that conservatives may not be as close-minded as they are portrayed. It proves that the opposite is the case, that conservatives understand their ideological opposite numbers far better than do liberals.

Haidt’s research asks individuals to answer questionnaires regarding their core moral beliefs—what sorts of values they consider sacred, which they would compromise on, and how much it would take to get them to make those compromises. By themselves, these exercises are interesting. (Try them online and see where you come out.)

Liberals don’t know what they don’t know; they don’t understand how limited their knowledge of conservative values is

Liberals or Conservatives: Who?s Really Close-Minded? ? The American Magazine

How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

-- Ronald Reagan

 

[whitehall]

It's the same old stuff where radical leftists play games and pretend that Senator McCarthy was the enemy but they don't actually endorse communism. The left relies on the last fifty years of sub-standard education and low information blog orientated stupids to try to portray communism in a pleasant non threatening light. Hiss was not tried as a spy because the statute of limitations had expired. The Verona transcripts confirm that he was an agent of the USSR. There were so many Russian spies in the FDR administration that they probably outnumbered the Kremlin staff. For all his faults Harry Truman tried to do the right thing by exposing the communist menace but the pop-history manages to blame the unpleasantness of the communist era on a single republican senator while portraying the failed administration as a success.

 

[Gadawg73]

Maybe Hiss was a communist spy.
But there was no evidence he was.
Whittaker Chambers was the ONLY witness to claim he was in the first trial and he first denied that Hiss was a spy.
Hiss testified before a House committee he was not a communist or a spy.
Chambers says he was a communist before that same committee.
Hiss was never indicted for espionage because the statute of limitations had run. Why did they allow it to run? He was indicted and tried on 2 counts of perjury.
Chambers admits at trial he lied many times under oath relating to this matter including lies about dates and other facts.
First trial deadlocked hung jury even with the Cold War scare in America the evidence was so pitiful.
Second trial prosecution brings in a citizen about to be deported who the Judge would not allow to testify in the first trial because his story was so bogus. Cold War hysteria forced 2nd Judge to allow her testimony. After the trial even though she was an admitted communist spy and liar she was allowed to stay in the US. Jury finds Hiss guilty OF PERJURY.
He receives five years which is unheard of for a perjury conviction especially when the ONLY witnesses were admitted liars.
Tail Gunner Joe 2 weeks later makes his first speech about all the communists in government.
Geez, only a dumb ass goes for this crap.

As usual, you reveal yourself to be an ignorant buffoon.



1. ".... original source archives that have come to light in recent years suggest that, if anything, McCarthy understated the breadth of Soviet infiltration. These include the revelations by the former KGB Chief Oleg Gordievsky, who in conjunction with the Cambridge intelligence expert Christopher Andrew, began exposing the scope of Soviet penetration in 1990, even before the USSR collapsed; the U.S. intelligence community’s Venona decryptions that began becoming public in the mid-1990s and were summarized in breathtaking detail by Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel; the investigative work of Jerrold and Leona Schecter, who traced the flow of Venona revelations into the Truman White House, beginning as early as 1945; the former KGB archivist Vasily Mitrokhin, who smuggled his files out of Moscow in 1992 (and who, in conjunction with Christopher Andrew, found astonishing the apathy of American historians regarding the KGB’s influence operations); the groundbreaking scholarship of John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr on the history of Communist espionage and the mulish determination of the academy not to notice it; the voluminous evidence of American treason on Moscow’s behalf amassed by Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev; the files of FBI investigations and congressional hearings on Communist infiltration that have recently been declassified; and so on.

2. No American in history has undergone as thoroughgoing a character assassination as McCarthy. So successful has the campaign been that one senses from some quadrants on the Right both acceptance of the shopworn narrative that, in his zeal, McCarthy profoundly harmed the cause of anti-Communism and apprehension that any whiff of sympathy for McCarthy will doom conservative credibility. On the latter point, no allowance is made for the strong case that McCarthy was overwhelmingly correct about the Communist threat—especially, the outrage that known and reasonably suspected Communists continued to work in high-ranking government positions for years after being identified as such.


3. Communist espionage not only distorted American war decisions but, far more significantly, eroded the pillars of Western civilization: the capacity to reason based on firm convictions about right and wrong, and to grasp that good cannot align with evil without losing its way.... we either reinforce those pillars or resign ourselves a very different, dissipated America."
Red herrings by Andrew C. McCarthy - The New Criterion



I've read the books mentioned in #1 above......have you?

You remain a moron screaming to be relevant.

Stick to your first job.....lawn jockey.

You know I am right so all you have to come back with are insults.
The evidence was so overwhelming that Hiss was a communist spy he was convicted of PERJURY.
Wow, a perjury conviction for an alleged communist spy.
And you are naive and gullible enough to believe otherwise. McCarthy depended on the naive and gullible like you. You believe anything and do not require any evidence.
Perjury conviction.
My job has taken me to half the states in this country and around the world as a licensed private detective with over 3000 criminal cases under my belt.
Only a dumb ass believes Hiss was a communist spy. And that would be you and everyone else that believes that. EVIDENCE is required and they had NONE.
Same with McCarthy. All hot air which is all you require.
I beat low information citizens like you daily in my work. Lazy law enforcement, fat detectives that spend half their days at the doughnut shops, politicians posing as prosecutors and corrupt politicians that prey on naive citizens like you with their public relations "causes" like McCarthy. I win most all the time, you lose.
This nation was founded ON the presumption of innocence, innocent until proven guilty, the defendant NEVER has to prove a damn thing and Hiss was NEVER proven guilty.
Sad day in this country when ignorant citizens ignore the Constitutional guarantees mentioned above in favor of a partisan political demagogue like McCarthy and the supporters of the Hiss witch trial which ended in what?
A PERJURY CONVICTION.

 

[elektra]

1. Liberals/Progressives do so because they are either unaware of the depth and breadth of treachery of their members who have done damage to America....and because the media minimizes said damage....or doesn't report it at all.

Please provide the proof that all liberals/progressives are like that, including myself. Or learn the proper use of words to describe a few, but not all.

How could one provide proof to complete morons?

 

[Gadawg73]

It's the same old stuff where radical leftists play games and pretend that Senator McCarthy was the enemy but they don't actually endorse communism. The left relies on the last fifty years of sub-standard education and low information blog orientated stupids to try to portray communism in a pleasant non threatening light. Hiss was not tried as a spy because the statute of limitations had expired. The Verona transcripts confirm that he was an agent of the USSR. There were so many Russian spies in the FDR administration that they probably outnumbered the Kremlin staff. For all his faults Harry Truman tried to do the right thing by exposing the communist menace but the pop-history manages to blame the unpleasantness of the communist era on a single republican senator while portraying the failed administration as a success.

I am not a radical lefty.
I require evidence and go by The United States Constitution which says what?
A defendant is presumed innocent.
A defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
A defendant NEVER has to prove ANYTHING at trial.
The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the government to prove EACH AND EVERY element of their case and the defendant does not have to offer anything.
So tell us what evidence did McCarthy offer and who did he convict?
BTW, Truman backed Hiss and believed him to be INNOCENT.

 

[Gadawg73]

Used to be a conservative feared the government and their power and always stood by the accused requiring the government to prove each and every element of their case as they believed a defendant is presumed innocent.
Obviously not anymore. Guilty until proven innocent because Tail Gunner Joe claims they be commies!
Sickening.

 

[whitehall]

It's the same old stuff where radical leftists play games and pretend that Senator McCarthy was the enemy but they don't actually endorse communism. The left relies on the last fifty years of sub-standard education and low information blog orientated stupids to try to portray communism in a pleasant non threatening light. Hiss was not tried as a spy because the statute of limitations had expired. The Verona transcripts confirm that he was an agent of the USSR. There were so many Russian spies in the FDR administration that they probably outnumbered the Kremlin staff. For all his faults Harry Truman tried to do the right thing by exposing the communist menace but the pop-history manages to blame the unpleasantness of the communist era on a single republican senator while portraying the failed administration as a success.

I am not a radical lefty.
I require evidence and go by The United States Constitution which says what?
A defendant is presumed innocent.
A defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
A defendant NEVER has to prove ANYTHING at trial.
The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the government to prove EACH AND EVERY element of their case and the defendant does not have to offer anything.
So tell us what evidence did McCarthy offer and who did he convict?
BTW, Truman backed Hiss and believed him to be INNOCENT.

Funny how lefties go all Constitution when it's their turn to cite the 5th but they see nothing wrong with the administration executing American citizens with drone attacks when it is too inconvenient to arrest them.

 

[Gadawg73]

I guess Eisenhower was also a communist spy as he was the one that exposed Joe as the fraud he was when Joe started his claims that The United States Army was filled with commies.
Am amazed that you good folks believe this stuff.

 

[Gadawg73]

It's the same old stuff where radical leftists play games and pretend that Senator McCarthy was the enemy but they don't actually endorse communism. The left relies on the last fifty years of sub-standard education and low information blog orientated stupids to try to portray communism in a pleasant non threatening light. Hiss was not tried as a spy because the statute of limitations had expired. The Verona transcripts confirm that he was an agent of the USSR. There were so many Russian spies in the FDR administration that they probably outnumbered the Kremlin staff. For all his faults Harry Truman tried to do the right thing by exposing the communist menace but the pop-history manages to blame the unpleasantness of the communist era on a single republican senator while portraying the failed administration as a success.

I am not a radical lefty.
I require evidence and go by The United States Constitution which says what?
A defendant is presumed innocent.
A defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
A defendant NEVER has to prove ANYTHING at trial.
The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the government to prove EACH AND EVERY element of their case and the defendant does not have to offer anything.
So tell us what evidence did McCarthy offer and who did he convict?
BTW, Truman backed Hiss and believed him to be INNOCENT.

Funny how lefties go all Constitution when it's their turn to cite the 5th but they see nothing wrong with the administration executing American citizens with drone attacks when it is too inconvenient to arrest them.

I am not a lefty Moe.
Show me some evidence or it is all hot air you have to offer also?
Ever heard of EVIDENCE?
Where is it?
Or keep changing the subject to drone attacks and how much a Krispy Kreme doughnut has gone up over the last 50 years.
Thought so. You have nothing. Give it up or be made the fool like Political Chic.

 

[Gadawg73]

So Ike was also a communist sympathizer?
LOL, this is far too easy.

 

[Gadawg73]

"205 communists have infiltrated the State Department"
And he NEVER listed the 205.
Such a great American. He claimed to know there were 205 communists in the State Department and NEVER told anyone who they were.